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 Frazzled wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 whembly wrote:

Nah... I suspect its more to do with not wanting Hillary Clinton as POTUS and *was* willing to roll the dice on Trump.

I'd say they lost the draw. Or, to use a dice reference, 'Snake eyes!'.

They would say the opposite. The Clintons we're hated for decades, especially HRC. Yet you guys ran her anyway.

"Guy who wouldn't vote for a Democrat if he were on fire and they were holding an extinguisher advises Democratic voters they picked poorly".

Also, FWIW, I didn't caucus for her, but I got outnumbered :(

 Ouze wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 whembly wrote:

Nah... I suspect its more to do with not wanting Hillary Clinton as POTUS and *was* willing to roll the dice on Trump.

I'd say they lost the draw. Or, to use a dice reference, 'Snake eyes!'.

They would say the opposite. The Clintons we're hated for decades, especially HRC. Yet you guys ran her anyway.

"Guy who wouldn't vote for a Democrat if he were on fire and they were holding an extinguisher advises Democratic voters they picked poorly".

Also, FWIW, I didn't caucus for her, but I got outnumbered :(

If it were Trump vs. a decent candidate I would have voted for them.
I would have voted for Biden.

 Ouze wrote:

"Guy who wouldn't vote for a Democrat if he were on fire and they were holding an extinguisher advises Democratic voters they picked poorly".

Also, FWIW, I didn't caucus for her, but I got outnumbered :(

It always seems to be "I would have voted for [X]" or "I would have voted for [Y]", but when push comes to shove they never do.

I'll take him at his word. HRC has always inspired a special level of vitriol above and beyond the D after her name.

I also sure wish it had been Biden instead, but cie la vie.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

"Guy who wouldn't vote for a Democrat if he were on fire and they were holding an extinguisher advises Democratic voters they picked poorly".

Also, FWIW, I didn't caucus for her, but I got outnumbered :(

It always seems to be "I would have voted for [X]" or "I would have voted for [Y]", but when push comes to shove they never do.

As I am not a party fanatic like some on this thread, I only vote for candidates. Unless they are running I cannot vote for them.

 Frazzled wrote:
The media also loved Trump. They still love Trump.

Yep. Even the Slates, Salons, and other shrillests of the shrill love Trump. He was a bigger gold mine than they ever could have dreamed. Trump also understands this.

Fox News also loved Obama.

Exactly.

Trump also loves the media. How many other presidents constantly talk about the ratings they are getting?

Just learned the hard way that I'm no longer eligible to travel to the US visa-free thanks to H.R.158 - Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015

I'm sure y'all feel much safer now that a 3-day business visit to Sudan in 2011 prevents me from transiting in Atlanta. Especially after 5-6 visits to the US between 2011 and now.

Thanks for the $14 ESTA charge and the $500 re-routing through a less paranoid country. I should have know better than flying Delta.

jouso wrote:

Just learned the hard way that I'm no longer eligible to travel to the US visa-free thanks to H.R.158 - Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015

I'm sure y'all feel much safer now that a 3-day business visit to Sudan in 2011 prevents me from transiting in Atlanta. Especially after 5-6 visits to the US between 2011 and now.

Thanks for the $14 ESTA charge and the $500 re-routing through a less paranoid country. I should have know better than flying Delta.

Thanks Obama!

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/opinion/trump-sarah-huckabee-sanders-restaurant-civility.html

Nice little article here.

 Frazzled wrote:

jouso wrote:

Just learned the hard way that I'm no longer eligible to travel to the US visa-free thanks to H.R.158 - Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015

I'm sure y'all feel much safer now that a 3-day business visit to Sudan in 2011 prevents me from transiting in Atlanta. Especially after 5-6 visits to the US between 2011 and now.

Thanks for the $14 ESTA charge and the $500 re-routing through a less paranoid country. I should have know better than flying Delta.

Thanks Obama!

That was my first thought, because thanks Candice S. Miller (R) doesn't have the same ring to it.

Ultimately, regardless of how people in this thread would have voted, Trump won the GOP primary, winning 37 states and coming out with nearly twice the votes of his closest rival, and today enjoys a nearly 90% approval rating among Republican voters that has practically not moved since coming into office.

Whatever we want to say about HRC, and there's a lot to say, it's simultaneously difficult to maintain that everyone just held their noses and voted Trump just because HRC or free air time. It's pretty clear that among the right wing in general, Trump is broadly very popular.

Meanwhile, amongst calls for civility and common decency following Maxine Waters' urging people to call out Trump staffers in public, Sheriff Needs-Moar-Flair and Representative Steve King are now openly declaring us on the brink of new and quite literal civil war, while Sanders dropped the gem "Just because you don’t see a judge doesn’t mean you aren’t receiving due process", while her father attempts to defend a Tweet about Pelosi employing the MS13 criminal gang as her campaign committee as Satire, and Trump fundamentally doesn't seem to understand Harley Davidsons EU move while simultaneously declaring Waters' a "Person of low IQ" and that she has called for harm against his supporters.

jouso wrote:

Just learned the hard way that I'm no longer eligible to travel to the US visa-free thanks to H.R.158 - Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015

I'm sure y'all feel much safer now that a 3-day business visit to Sudan in 2011 prevents me from transiting in Atlanta. Especially after 5-6 visits to the US between 2011 and now.

Thanks for the $14 ESTA charge and the $500 re-routing through a less paranoid country. I should have know better than flying Delta.

You're no the only one, the former NATO chief also got snagged by recent Visa issues

Also yeah, never fly Delta/United if you can help it

jouso wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

jouso wrote:

Just learned the hard way that I'm no longer eligible to travel to the US visa-free thanks to H.R.158 - Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015

I'm sure y'all feel much safer now that a 3-day business visit to Sudan in 2011 prevents me from transiting in Atlanta. Especially after 5-6 visits to the US between 2011 and now.

Thanks for the $14 ESTA charge and the $500 re-routing through a less paranoid country. I should have know better than flying Delta.

Thanks Obama!

That was my first thought, because thanks Candice S. Miller (R) doesn't have the same ring to it.

Delta might leave Atlanta anyways, their snowflake governor got into a hissy fit when Delta got rid of the NRA perks and in a stroke of pure brilliance he killed a tax break for one of Georgias largest job providers

 Vaktathi wrote:


Also yeah, never fly Delta/United if you can help it

Oddly enough Continental was my airline of choice back when I was a regular US visitor. It was all downhill since the UA merger. Delta has always been quite gakky, but I'm a skyteam platinum, so that kinda limits my options.

 skyth wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/opinion/trump-sarah-huckabee-sanders-restaurant-civility.html

Nice little article here.

The comments on that article are exactly what you would expect.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:
while simultaneously declaring Waters' a "Person of low IQ" and that she has called for harm against his supporters.

Making veiled threats about being careful what you wish for is the best way to try and show the other person is saying bad things.

jouso wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:


Also yeah, never fly Delta/United if you can help it

Oddly enough Continental was my airline of choice back when I was a regular US visitor. It was all downhill since the UA merger. Delta has always been quite gakky, but I'm a skyteam platinum, so that kinda limits my options.

There are talks of SouthWest going more international, if they do you should check them out and I am just not saying that because I am a shareholder

 Ouze wrote:

Relapse wrote:
This is the kind of thing that stirs up conservatives to hit the polls in large numbers.

Yes, we know. Your trickle of fortune cookie aphorisms to remind us "how we get Trump" have only served to reinforce that the Party of Personal Responsibility had no choice but to vote for Trump because liberals were mean to them.

They had no choice but to look at a guy who, in no special order:

Bragged about sexual assault
Constantly degraded women for their appearance
Flirted with white supremacists by an extended refusal to disavow support of the KKK
Insisted that women who asked him hard questions must be on their period
Claimed an opponents father had assisted with assassinating a US president
Mocked a disabled reporter onstage
Was responsible for an organization that was sued by the Department of Justice for widespread racial discrimination
Attacked a war hero and mocked his imprisonment as a POW, even while getting multiple deferments for "bone spurs"
Attacked a gold star family
Generalized Mexican immigrants as rapists, criminals, drug dealers, and presumably, some good people as well
Endorsed police brutality
Bragged that the military would commit war crimes for him
Refused to disclose his financial entanglements as every other candidate had, and repeatedly lied about why
Pushed an extended, racist conspiracy theory that the President was a foreign citizen and had covered it up
Had a proven record of financial mismanagement
Repeatedly lied that US muslims celebrated 9/11
Called for a foreign government to hack his political opponent
Promised to re-institute war crimes such as waterboarding "and worse"
Endorsed laughable policies that no reasonable person could think would work



And go, you know what? We're good with that. Pull that lever for team red!

Don't worry. No one blames the right wing for Trump. You don't constantly need to remind us that it wasn't their fault. Yes, 62 million right wing votes got Trump elected, but what choice did they have?



Their feelings were hurt.

The alternative seems worse in many people’s minds.

Relapse wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

Relapse wrote:
This is the kind of thing that stirs up conservatives to hit the polls in large numbers.

Yes, we know. Your trickle of fortune cookie aphorisms to remind us "how we get Trump" have only served to reinforce that the Party of Personal Responsibility had no choice but to vote for Trump because liberals were mean to them.

They had no choice but to look at a guy who, in no special order:

Bragged about sexual assault
Constantly degraded women for their appearance
Flirted with white supremacists by an extended refusal to disavow support of the KKK
Insisted that women who asked him hard questions must be on their period
Claimed an opponents father had assisted with assassinating a US president
Mocked a disabled reporter onstage
Was responsible for an organization that was sued by the Department of Justice for widespread racial discrimination
Attacked a war hero and mocked his imprisonment as a POW, even while getting multiple deferments for "bone spurs"
Attacked a gold star family
Generalized Mexican immigrants as rapists, criminals, drug dealers, and presumably, some good people as well
Endorsed police brutality
Bragged that the military would commit war crimes for him
Refused to disclose his financial entanglements as every other candidate had, and repeatedly lied about why
Pushed an extended, racist conspiracy theory that the President was a foreign citizen and had covered it up
Had a proven record of financial mismanagement
Repeatedly lied that US muslims celebrated 9/11
Called for a foreign government to hack his political opponent
Promised to re-institute war crimes such as waterboarding "and worse"
Endorsed laughable policies that no reasonable person could think would work



And go, you know what? We're good with that. Pull that lever for team red!

Don't worry. No one blames the right wing for Trump. You don't constantly need to remind us that it wasn't their fault. Yes, 62 million right wing votes got Trump elected, but what choice did they have?



Their feelings were hurt.

The alternative seems worse in many people’s minds.

In all honesty, can any republican or group (like Evangelicals) who voted for trump ever try to claim morality in any cause? Because personally I do not think they can

Relapse wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

Relapse wrote:
This is the kind of thing that stirs up conservatives to hit the polls in large numbers.

Yes, we know. Your trickle of fortune cookie aphorisms to remind us "how we get Trump" have only served to reinforce that the Party of Personal Responsibility had no choice but to vote for Trump because liberals were mean to them.

They had no choice but to look at a guy who, in no special order:

Bragged about sexual assault
Constantly degraded women for their appearance
Flirted with white supremacists by an extended refusal to disavow support of the KKK
Insisted that women who asked him hard questions must be on their period
Claimed an opponents father had assisted with assassinating a US president
Mocked a disabled reporter onstage
Was responsible for an organization that was sued by the Department of Justice for widespread racial discrimination
Attacked a war hero and mocked his imprisonment as a POW, even while getting multiple deferments for "bone spurs"
Attacked a gold star family
Generalized Mexican immigrants as rapists, criminals, drug dealers, and presumably, some good people as well
Endorsed police brutality
Bragged that the military would commit war crimes for him
Refused to disclose his financial entanglements as every other candidate had, and repeatedly lied about why
Pushed an extended, racist conspiracy theory that the President was a foreign citizen and had covered it up
Had a proven record of financial mismanagement
Repeatedly lied that US muslims celebrated 9/11
Called for a foreign government to hack his political opponent
Promised to re-institute war crimes such as waterboarding "and worse"
Endorsed laughable policies that no reasonable person could think would work



And go, you know what? We're good with that. Pull that lever for team red!

Don't worry. No one blames the right wing for Trump. You don't constantly need to remind us that it wasn't their fault. Yes, 62 million right wing votes got Trump elected, but what choice did they have?



Their feelings were hurt.

The alternative seems worse in many people’s minds.

Which is of course hilarious.

I wonder what those "The-Alternative-Seemed-Worse" people actually thought would happen. I mean specifically.

Are they the same people that insisted President Obama was a Muslim, that would put all the true patriots in FEMA camps and take away all their guns?
Did those same people ever realise that it didn't happen?
Did they ever reflect on their error?
Are they doing the same thing again?

The collective apathy of the American voter continues to pay dividends.

jouso wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:


Also yeah, never fly Delta/United if you can help it

Oddly enough Continental was my airline of choice back when I was a regular US visitor. It was all downhill since the UA merger. Delta has always been quite gakky, but I'm a skyteam platinum, so that kinda limits my options.

United is just terrible.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
SCOTUS has upheld the Trump travel ban.

SCOTUS upheld Trump's travel ban:
https://cnn.com/2018/06/26/politics/travel-ban-supreme-court/index.html

Regardless how you feel about it policy-wise, it's obvious that Trump had full Article II authority.

...reading the dissent, it seems that these justices wanted to factor in Candidate Trump's animus in determining the legality of this... I don't know how I feel about that. Would seem to open up dangerous doors.

 Ustrello wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

Relapse wrote:
This is the kind of thing that stirs up conservatives to hit the polls in large numbers.

Yes, we know. Your trickle of fortune cookie aphorisms to remind us "how we get Trump" have only served to reinforce that the Party of Personal Responsibility had no choice but to vote for Trump because liberals were mean to them.

They had no choice but to look at a guy who, in no special order:

Bragged about sexual assault
Constantly degraded women for their appearance
Flirted with white supremacists by an extended refusal to disavow support of the KKK
Insisted that women who asked him hard questions must be on their period
Claimed an opponents father had assisted with assassinating a US president
Mocked a disabled reporter onstage
Was responsible for an organization that was sued by the Department of Justice for widespread racial discrimination
Attacked a war hero and mocked his imprisonment as a POW, even while getting multiple deferments for "bone spurs"
Attacked a gold star family
Generalized Mexican immigrants as rapists, criminals, drug dealers, and presumably, some good people as well
Endorsed police brutality
Bragged that the military would commit war crimes for him
Refused to disclose his financial entanglements as every other candidate had, and repeatedly lied about why
Pushed an extended, racist conspiracy theory that the President was a foreign citizen and had covered it up
Had a proven record of financial mismanagement
Repeatedly lied that US muslims celebrated 9/11
Called for a foreign government to hack his political opponent
Promised to re-institute war crimes such as waterboarding "and worse"
Endorsed laughable policies that no reasonable person could think would work



And go, you know what? We're good with that. Pull that lever for team red!

Don't worry. No one blames the right wing for Trump. You don't constantly need to remind us that it wasn't their fault. Yes, 62 million right wing votes got Trump elected, but what choice did they have?



Their feelings were hurt.

The alternative seems worse in many people’s minds.

In all honesty, can any republican or group (like Evangelicals) who voted for trump ever try to claim morality in any cause? Because personally I do not think they can

I honestly don’t think either side can claim the moral high ground, given the wall of text amount of flaws and villainies each points put in the oyher

Supreme Court also sides with anti-abortion “crisis pregnancy centers” in First Amendment case : https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/6/26/17505768/supreme-court-california-abortion-decision

And let's not forget with the judges nominated before, the R side clearly has an advantage here for the votes.

Relapse wrote:


I honestly don’t think either side can claim the moral high ground, given the wall of text amount of flaws and villainous each points put in the oyher

Oh, I do think one side can't definitely claim the moral high ground when they put children in cages, no matter the reason invoked.

 d-usa wrote:
Are people pretending that the Tea Party was some weird low level event?

Hey guys, remember all the times people were comparing Obama to Hitler while talking about how his brownshirts are going to round up all your children and put them in the FEMA death camps and enact his socialist agenda to turn the USA into Nazi Germany?

Remember how the liberals decided that if you call them mean names, they will turn to the radical extreme left elements and the Democrats in power decided to pander to the fringe elements of the liberal sphere?

Remember when people were saying that you can't judge a group by the fringe elements within them? OR is that only the case for BLM and the MeToo movement?

Its hard to call it fringe elements when their candidate is their whole side's candidate in a general election. I'd call that mainstream.

 whembly wrote:
Would seem to open up dangerous doors.

I don't see how. If people don't want their public words to affect their lawmaking ability then they shouldn't call for unconstitutional things publicly.

If someone had called for the murder of black people and then instigated a police action which resulted in the deaths of thousands of black people but which in its actual wording did not call for the murder of black people (say, a zero tolerance mass crackdown on crime centred on largely black population centres where police were told beforehand that the area was a hotbed of gang violence and the gang members would shoot them if given the chance), to use a greatly exaggerated example, should that persons prior comments not have any bearing on determining the legality of their subsequent action? Does the motive behind someone's actions not matter?

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
[
Again, that excuse doesn't wash because you're basically saying that all of the other Republican candidates were, what, even worse than Trump AND Hillary?

Let's just be truthful here. The Democrats didn't put up great choices in their primary, and the Republicans put up 9 varying flavors of crazy. Trump may be bad, but I have no doubt electing Chris Kristy would have been worse. As for Bernie, I disagreed with his policies, but I can honestly say that unlike everyone else, I respected him because I think he honestly believed in what he was saying.

Well, to me, the real danger here for Republicans and Trump followers is pushing the outrage so far that the other, more populous side (remember, popular vote lost) get fed up and just doesn't recognize the authority of the officials anymore. Like, for real.

That's what's beginning to happen with the "uncivility" invoked by the R side. Of course it was bound to happen. Backlash is unavoidable when you piss the other off constantly.

Since the R side doesn't listen to the D side anyway, it's clear their call for "keeping things civil" has no reason to be heard. Why would they when one side keeps trolling the other by calling them snowflakes all the time ?

It's the same when you ignore people. If you have a troll called Zarf who keeps bragging and spout nonsense before pissing on your house, don't be surprised if he gets kicked in the nuts after a while and his complains ignored about it "not being civil". He wasn't at the beginning when he was trolling, anyway.