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To go crazy there's one requirement. To be non-crazy at one point. So no he isn't going crazy. He always has been.
Indeed. He has been clearly so for some time now. I doubt he was always like that, but he certainly was by the time he hit the campaign trail.
Trump has got worse recently because things are going worse and worse for him.
The Mueller investigation has turned up a remarkable amount of dirt and is getting close to Trump. There is more to come.
Trump's approval rating is jammed at about 40%, the lowest in history. The mid-terms are round the corner. The signs are that the Democrats are going to give the Republicans a drubbing.
This will be taken as a referendum on Trump's presidency. If the results are bad enough, the Republicans may turn on him.
Trump therefore is trying to drum up his base and deflect attention from the evidence against him.
d-usa wrote: The article that started all this by assigning liberal vs conservative labels to sources has Infowars as “center-right”. If Infowars is “center-right”, everything becomes liberal by comparison.
I wouldn't go that far into his reasoning. The most probable explanation why he voiced the Chinese hack idea is that he saw the Daily Caller's article on it when he was going on his liberal news bias googling spree. Its like when Fox talks about something and a little while later Trump starts on it, the man is a parrot.
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
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2000 pts Imperial Fists
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2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
Tomb Kings 1500 points Sekhra (RIP)
Kilkrazy wrote: Trump therefore is trying to drum up his base and deflect attention from the evidence against him.
But the question that still needs to be answered is--is that all he needs to do? Can you just get by on whipping up a relatively small (but way larger than it should have been) number of diehard crazies, dump mud in the water with unyielding denials and ludicrous headline-grabbing statements, and then let political apathy stop anyone from caring enough to overrule them?
"The 75mm gun is firing. The 37mm gun is firing, but is traversed round the wrong way. The Browning is jammed. I am saying "Driver, advance." and the driver, who can't hear me, is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret and see twelve enemy tanks fifty yards away, someone hands me a cheese sandwich."
But anyway, if it's not enough, I don't think Trump has anything else to offer anyone except what he's already giving his core supporters. He's certainly doubling down on the main messages of "deep state", "fake media" and so on.
A lot of the rest of the Republican Party are only supporting him because they are scared of deselection by Trumpists in their constituencies. It's like the Tea Party on steroids. As soon as Republicans see they are more at danger of losing to Democrat candidates, the GOP tide will turn against Trump.
Like at the presidential election, this places the burden on the Democrats to mobilise maximum possible support.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Why are you assuming that the media is wrong and the people correct? What if the media isn't biased, but the people is?
I mean, people took "reality has a liberal bias" as a joke. It wasn't then and it isn't now.
The media is liberal in the same sense reality is, when dealing in facts you come in well left of the US's accepted center. Hence why fox is entertainment, not news. Hence why right wing talk radio only took off after any requirement of some semblance of reality was removed. Why I have had to argue with creationists, anti-vaxers and flat earthers when there's two seperate biblical creation accounts, measles was dead till those idiots took hold and you can watch rockets launch into space on a fething live stream. If you constantly consume stupid you think it's normal and then get real angry when people call you stupid.
I thought anti-vaxxing was more of an extreme-left idiocy, or at least spread on both sides of the spectrum (albeit for different reasons).
Sadly, it's spreading even here in Europe, although here literally all political parties agree it's a bad thing.
I think it's seen as right-wing because the other main anti-science credos, like climate change denial, creationism, flat Earth-ism, are all right-wing beliefs in the US.
I've never see anything to make anti-vaxxing look left wing.
Easy E wrote: Can't wait for all the violence, because I am tired of winning!
Regarding, Firearms and Small Business. I believe if you post a Beware of Dog sign and your dog bites someone, the sign is proof that you knew your dog could be dangerous and did not do enough to stop them from biting people. Could a similar form of "logic" be used in the Florida Firearms at Restaurants case?
I don't think so. In the example you used (Assuming the dog was in some kind of enclosure not open to the public and the "Beware of dog" sign was clearly posted) the owner of the dog would be able to prove they had taken steps to warn people of the danger and tried keep people away from the danger which would reduce their liability in a lawsuit like this.
tneva82 wrote: Just random chance that he defends Russia that he always praises and that actively worked to get Trump into presidency. Yup total random.
Its not random at all, which isn't what I was implying, just saying that in this instance he seems to have been prompted by the daily caller article to try and pin it on China, which of course would be incredibly convenient considering the activities of his staff up to and including younger Donnie. So I meant to say it falls less on defending Russia and more on him reading an article and running with it to throw shade at the investigation, like a parrot.
Kilkrazy wrote: Trump therefore is trying to drum up his base and deflect attention from the evidence against him.
But the question that still needs to be answered is--is that all he needs to do? Can you just get by on whipping up a relatively small (but way larger than it should have been) number of diehard crazies, dump mud in the water with unyielding denials and ludicrous headline-grabbing statements, and then let political apathy stop anyone from caring enough to overrule them?
I think it's seen as right-wing because the other main anti-science credos, like climate change denial, creationism, flat Earth-ism, are all right-wing beliefs in the US.
I've never see anything to make anti-vaxxing look left wing.
Eh Bran might be thinking about/have a point to some extent when considering the Netherlands. Here it used (and is) to be the evangelicals (think roughly the Dutch equivalent of the US variety) but now highly educated and wealthy young parents (trending more towards the left in politics) are increasingly getting more anti-vaxxing. Funny thing is that our most 'normal' (center-right) right wing party is actually considering ways in making them mandatory, which technically they can't. But it being more on the rise in the center left of the population is something I don't think shown on a more global basis and the evangelicals here would certainly trend right politically. Perhaps that is where the left wing perception comes from, its trending there now over here, even if it isn't in politics but just political slant of the anti-vaxxer.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/29 13:25:47
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
2000 pts Imperial Fists
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
Tomb Kings 1500 points Sekhra (RIP)
I think it's seen as right-wing because the other main anti-science credos, like climate change denial, creationism, flat Earth-ism, are all right-wing beliefs in the US.
I've never see anything to make anti-vaxxing look left wing.
No but you tend to see a lot of these preventable vaccine diseases breaking out in cities on the coasts which tend to be more liberal
I think it's seen as right-wing because the other main anti-science credos, like climate change denial, creationism, flat Earth-ism, are all right-wing beliefs in the US.
I've never see anything to make anti-vaxxing look left wing.
No but you tend to see a lot of these preventable vaccine diseases breaking out in cities on the coasts which tend to be more liberal
It's just more of the limousine liberals, more than anything.
Anti-vaxxing is one of those things that transcends normal political boundaries. It is anti establishment, anti-corporate, new age, the body heals itself wilfully ignorant leftism and anti-expert, self-self-self, little guy sticking it to the big man reactionary rightism at the same time. Basically, small minded, self-important, wannabe-middle-class little Englanders (substitute in any other nationality as appropriate - forgot this was the NA thread).
Saying that though, I remember at the time of the Andrew Wakefield fraud it was the Mail and Express that were paying him service while the likes of Independent and Guardian were trying to talk science.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/08/29 13:57:55
Disciple of Fate wrote: I wouldn't go that far into his reasoning. The most probable explanation why he voiced the Chinese hack idea is that he saw the Daily Caller's article on it when he was going on his liberal news bias googling spree. Its like when Fox talks about something and a little while later Trump starts on it, the man is a parrot.
Trump is basically that crazy family member who hits the “share” button on Facebook and spams you feed with crazy conspiracy theories and crackpot articles. Except that he doesn’t just annoy his family members, but instead he issues these “shares” as official presidential statements speaking for the United States of America.
There are 3 primary things that lead people to be antivax. It's ether a religious issue (some more extreme christian churchs are antivax) or you are anti monsonto and therefore an organic only anti "chemical" (haha) kind of person. There is also another group of people - people who have autistic children and blame vaccines. The first two might have political trends but the third one doesn't.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
I think it's seen as right-wing because the other main anti-science credos, like climate change denial, creationism, flat Earth-ism, are all right-wing beliefs in the US.
I've never see anything to make anti-vaxxing look left wing.
No but you tend to see a lot of these preventable vaccine diseases breaking out in cities on the coasts which tend to be more liberal
I think it's seen as right-wing because the other main anti-science credos, like climate change denial, creationism, flat Earth-ism, are all right-wing beliefs in the US.
I've never see anything to make anti-vaxxing look left wing.
The modern anti-vaxxing wave (at least, to the best of my knowledge) was kicked off by book espousing alternative medicine, these sorts of books (at least, the ones I've flipped through) push the idea that big pharma intentionally poisons people to help their bottom line, and offers safer, more natural (never cheaper!) alternatives to combat the ailments to the human condition.
This narrative of corporate greed run amuck attracts liberals, and the hocus-pocus remedies attracts the subset of those readers who are unable or unwilling to think critically about the subject (be wary of anyone who makes careful use of nebulous terms like 'toxins') and the combination thereof results in a market demand for herbal remedies, tea infusions, and the like.
Not that it was harmless before (I seem to recall a court case where parents fought to take their kid off of a viable cancer treatment to pursue a homeopathic one instead), but it obviously became a lot more harmful when someone tried to apply that model to vaccinations.
As a result, in a world of stupid conspiracy theories, anti-vaxxers are perceived as the left's embarrassment, sort of a liberal version of chemtrail conspiracy theorists or flat-earthers. I don't know how true that is these days though, the idea seems to have spread out a bit, but it's still a good example of how stupidity knows no political affiliation.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Xenomancers wrote: There are 3 primary things that lead people to be antivax. It's ether a religious issue (some more extreme christian churchs are antivax) or you are anti monsonto and therefore an organic only anti "chemical" (haha) kind of person. There is also another group of people - people who have autistic children and blame vaccines. The first two might have political trends but the third one doesn't.
There's also the legitimate cases where a child with a compromised immune system would have a fatal reaction to a vaccine. These people are reliant in the herd immunity effect that the anti-vaxxers are compromising.
And honestly that's the most galling part to me: putting your own kid at risk of measles to prevent autism is really, really stupid, being willing to kill other kids with measles for the same reason is monstrous.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/29 14:52:52
I think it's seen as right-wing because the other main anti-science credos, like climate change denial, creationism, flat Earth-ism, are all right-wing beliefs in the US.
I've never see anything to make anti-vaxxing look left wing.
The modern anti-vaxxing wave (at least, to the best of my knowledge) was kicked off by book espousing alternative medicine, these sorts of books (at least, the ones I've flipped through) push the idea that big pharma intentionally poisons people to help their bottom line, and offers safer, more natural (never cheaper!) alternatives to combat the ailments to the human condition.
This narrative of corporate greed run amuck attracts liberals, and the hocus-pocus remedies attracts the subset of those readers who are unable or unwilling to think critically about the subject (be wary of anyone who makes careful use of nebulous terms like 'toxins') and the combination thereof results in a market demand for herbal remedies, tea infusions, and the like.
Not that it was harmless before (I seem to recall a court case where parents fought to take their kid off of a viable cancer treatment to pursue a homeopathic one instead), but it obviously became a lot more harmful when someone tried to apply that model to vaccinations.
As a result, in a world of stupid conspiracy theories, anti-vaxxers are perceived as the left's embarrassment, sort of a liberal version of chemtrail conspiracy theorists or flat-earthers. I don't know how true that is these days though, the idea seems to have spread out a bit, but it's still a good example of how stupidity knows no political affiliation.
FWIW, here's my 2 cents on the anti-vaxx "origins" . . . IMHO, this "movement" (if we want to call it such) seems to have begun life in the uber-crazy religious right, but we did not see much effect from them because they were such a small minority that it statistically didn't seem to matter. In recent years, especially in the post-2000s when you have celebrities like Jenny McCarthy jumping on the bandwagon, we do see a statistically significant enough minority sprout among the left leaning circles of the US populace. Before, we only had religious sects that believed that blood transfusions were the devil and vaccines were the devil, and seemingly sealed themselves off from society, but this new wave of yoga pants, uggs, and flannel shirt wearing soccer moms is anything but sealed off, and they are at a large enough number to actually present isuses to public health.
d-usa wrote: The article that started all this by assigning liberal vs conservative labels to sources has Infowars as “center-right”. If Infowars is “center-right”, everything becomes liberal by comparison.
Why are you assuming that the media is wrong and the people correct? What if the media isn't biased, but the people is?
It is not the medias job to be "right". It's job is to be objective give people information - that should also include not scaring people into a panic - providing references to give people perspective.
For example.
https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/26/sport/lebron-james-scary-police-son/index.html This story got a lot of hype. "OMG! Even the king of basketball is afraid his son is going to get shot by police! This is a serious issue"
https://www.businessinsider.com/mass-shooting-gun-statistics-2018-2 He should actually be 10 times more concerned if his kid wants to ride motorcycles. Plus his son twice as likely to die choking eating food. This is what objective journalism would look like if it did exist. Gotta be real. The only place you are going to get this kind of info is by looking for it on your own. Or finding a news organization where offering this information is part of their agenda. Not saying it's any better on the right. There is just 10 times less of it coming from the right because they are 10% of what is out there i the news. This leads to a lot more left wing misinformation being released to the public than right wing misinformation. This is very bad.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
There's also the legitimate cases where a child with a compromised immune system would have a fatal reaction to a vaccine. These people are reliant in the herd immunity effect that the anti-vaxxers are compromising.
I think its a major disservice to consider people whose children are immune compromised and literally cannot receive vaccines as being "anti-vaxxers" . . . They at least have a valid reason for not vaccinating: doctor's orders. They are not pretending to know more than a doctor with 8+ years of schooling, plus however many number of practical years post school.
I think it's seen as right-wing because the other main anti-science credos, like climate change denial, creationism, flat Earth-ism, are all right-wing beliefs in the US.
I've never see anything to make anti-vaxxing look left wing.
The modern anti-vaxxing wave (at least, to the best of my knowledge) was kicked off by book espousing alternative medicine, these sorts of books (at least, the ones I've flipped through) push the idea that big pharma intentionally poisons people to help their bottom line, and offers safer, more natural (never cheaper!) alternatives to combat the ailments to the human condition.
This narrative of corporate greed run amuck attracts liberals, and the hocus-pocus remedies attracts the subset of those readers who are unable or unwilling to think critically about the subject (be wary of anyone who makes careful use of nebulous terms like 'toxins') and the combination thereof results in a market demand for herbal remedies, tea infusions, and the like.
Not that it was harmless before (I seem to recall a court case where parents fought to take their kid off of a viable cancer treatment to pursue a homeopathic one instead), but it obviously became a lot more harmful when someone tried to apply that model to vaccinations.
As a result, in a world of stupid conspiracy theories, anti-vaxxers are perceived as the left's embarrassment, sort of a liberal version of chemtrail conspiracy theorists or flat-earthers. I don't know how true that is these days though, the idea seems to have spread out a bit, but it's still a good example of how stupidity knows no political affiliation.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Xenomancers wrote: There are 3 primary things that lead people to be antivax. It's ether a religious issue (some more extreme christian churchs are antivax) or you are anti monsonto and therefore an organic only anti "chemical" (haha) kind of person. There is also another group of people - people who have autistic children and blame vaccines. The first two might have political trends but the third one doesn't.
There's also the legitimate cases where a child with a compromised immune system would have a fatal reaction to a vaccine. These people are reliant in the herd immunity effect that the anti-vaxxers are compromising.
And honestly that's the most galling part to me: putting your own kid at risk of measles to prevent autism is really, really stupid, being willing to kill other kids with measles for the same reason is monstrous.
I totally agree. It really shouldn't even be a choice.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/08/29 15:02:09
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Ensis Ferrae wrote: I think its a major disservice to consider people whose children are immune compromised and literally cannot receive vaccines as being "anti-vaxxers" . . . They at least have a valid reason for not vaccinating: doctor's orders. They are not pretending to know more than a doctor with 8+ years of schooling, plus however many number of practical years post school.
You're right, that isn't fair, my bad.
Though now I wonder if said parents catch any flack when schools refuse to let kids enrol that don't have their vaccines up to date?
There's also the legitimate cases where a child with a compromised immune system would have a fatal reaction to a vaccine. These people are reliant in the herd immunity effect that the anti-vaxxers are compromising.
I think its a major disservice to consider people whose children are immune compromised and literally cannot receive vaccines as being "anti-vaxxers" . . . They at least have a valid reason for not vaccinating: doctor's orders. They are not pretending to know more than a doctor with 8+ years of schooling, plus however many number of practical years post school.
I don't think he's calling them anti-vaxxers, but rather he was correcting something another poster said.
Ensis Ferrae wrote: I think its a major disservice to consider people whose children are immune compromised and literally cannot receive vaccines as being "anti-vaxxers" . . . They at least have a valid reason for not vaccinating: doctor's orders. They are not pretending to know more than a doctor with 8+ years of schooling, plus however many number of practical years post school.
You're right, that isn't fair, my bad.
Though now I wonder if said parents catch any flack when schools refuse to let kids enrol that don't have their vaccines up to date?
I don't think they will, since they'd likely have legitimate medical paperwork to back up their claims.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/29 15:26:14
This also highlights the problem of assigning left and right labels to people in general, or applying political terminology to things that are non-political.
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