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Well that'd get out of hand quickly. Back to my previous example. Kill Tank with giga shoota buffed by a mek shop. Roll 36 dice. Oh, one of them is a 6? ROLL 36 MORE DICE!

oh yeah, that could definitely get out of hand...imagine if you rolled lucky and got like 10 6's...360 more dice

yeah, that definitely would've been a bit too good, at least in some cases, like that one

So, I've been pleasantly surprised by the rumors, leaks, and releases thus far, but I'm really thinking that there's no way we're getting anything like that mek shop.

There is an off chance that the mek shop is just some of the kill team kits mashed together.

Then again, many armies have received new terrain: Nurgle Tree, Eldar Warpgate, Knight Shrine of Wasteaturn...

And the knight shrine is a new mashup of like 7 previously existing sprues. Not that I know what they'd use for the mek shop. Guess it depends on whether it's a fortification or a vehicle.
Still holding out hope for a upgrade sprue meant for the battlewagon. It'd be charming as hell

It already has an upgrade sprue though, plus another two from forgeworld...

I really don't see that happening.

as a long time ork player... kit? i might buy a kit to mod some terrain but if i am using one in game it will be scratch built or at least highly customized. my looted orks have a reputation to uphold

PiñaColada wrote:
Well that'd get out of hand quickly. Back to my previous example. Kill Tank with giga shoota buffed by a mek shop. Roll 36 dice. Oh, one of them is a 6? ROLL 36 MORE DICE!

But that's not how it works, so why are we debating that.

Myself, I'm not even considering the existence of the mekshop until I see the rules. There's absolutely nothing in the game currently for fortifications that you'd ever consider spending points/PLs on unless it was something worked into the mission as a neutral objective or advantage for one player. If it were all the index rules id get it but after the Webway gate and the forgeshrine I definitely am of the opinion that GW is intentionally pricing fortifications like they price FW titans: make the rules, price it, multiply that price by 2 to get the actual price in game.

They're fun for cinematic scenery purposes I guess. I've run missions with neutral VSGs and webway gates scattered around that have been fun.

 Jidmah wrote:
I don't think it's just one model, otherwise they would have made it similar to how daemons work, just telling to deep strike one unit. The 20 PL and a limit to one unit would only exclude full units of Nobz, MANz and deff dreads plus the stompa and the gargantuan squiggoth. 20 PL would be an incredibly odd way to do that, when they could just exclude monstrous or gargantuan creatures so it doesn't start to rain stompas.

It's probably 20 PL of whatever you want, though I could see it limited to infantry and bikes, since many other armies have limits like that. It also fits with the rumor of them going back to the drawing board because orks could deep strike half their army - if it were limited to two units like it was for eldar, we could still land 60 boyz plus kommandos plus da jump.

Assuming PL didn't change, some notable options are excluded from this stratagem:
- Full strength units of nobz (PL21)
- More than one full-strength unit of boyz (PL13) (maximum number of boyz possible are 40, with room for 10 gretchin)
- More than one unit of trukk boyz (PL 13)
- More than one battlewagon (PL11)
- Three deff dreads (PL22)

Options that are very interesting:
- 2x 15 tank bustas with 4 squigs (PL20)
- 6 MANz (19 PL)
- 6 Killa kanz (19 PL)
- Nauts, if they aren't excluded for some reason
- 10+5 Flashgits (PL20)
- Battlewagon with 20 shoota boyz inside (PL20)
- 15 Warbikes (PL17)

I don't think deep-striking and ramming gorkanauts are not intended game design, I so I wouldn't count on it working. I might be wrong though.

I do love it when you talk tactics Jidmah!

Of the interesting options I think Warbikes are a waste because they're fast AF anyways. Same goes for Battlewagon really.

Flashgits (for some reason I'm going to do your list backwards) might be very interesting. Assuming they get their justified 4+ armour save, drop them next to a vehicle, roast it and use that supposed "Looted" stratagem to have a 3+ for the rest of the game. Bonus points if you somehow manage to get them in cover so it's a 2+. Could cause some serious rage.

Nauts are obviously bonkers if legit target.

6 Killa Kans don't strike me as a good prospect, their melee output is too low for me without buffs.

6 MANZ? Now we're talking! Hopefully they get either a durability increase or increase in damage to make them a little more viable but no doubt 6 of them appearing out of nowhere will be a problem for any opponent. It also helps solve their massive weakness. Again, why not have them kill a vehicle then use the Looted strat? 1+ save sounds decent, especially if you're the clan that's always in cover Hello ignoring -2 AP shooting!

The Bustas feel very expensive for the drop unless they get better armour. They're pretty much guaranteed to die but again, if you can kill a vehicle in melee to get the extra armour and you take the cover clan rule you might be able to do work on round 3 too. If nothing else the enemy will throw everything at them until they're dead. Might be a good gambit to kill something like a Knight or another critical vehicle.

What PL is Ghazzy?

If points and PL's drop enough with killa kans goff killa kans with waagh banner coming in same time might be nasty. Charge, some mortal wounds, 18 attacks hitting on 4+ S8 -3 D3 with exploding(on 5+ thanks to banner?) could be nasty.

Or if you can't DS that well da jump could be used.

Though 6" range is bit of a bummer. Might have to be just 15 attacks if nob fails charge.

I'm hoping for a separate kit, but I wonder if maybe the barricades and piles of tires and whatnot might be able to be assembled as a mek shop?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Of the interesting options I think Warbikes are a waste because they're fast AF anyways. Same goes for Battlewagon really.

For the battlewagon the appeal is using the ramming stratagem right after. The deff rolla is a mean weapon if manage to hit something with it undegraded. 6 S8 AP-2 attacks that hit on 2+ is a very killy profile.
For bikes, the idea was that you could hide them out of harms way... but I guess if you need to do that, they are probably not worth fielding.

Flashgits (for some reason I'm going to do your list backwards) might be very interesting. Assuming they get their justified 4+ armour save, drop them next to a vehicle, roast it and use that supposed "Looted" stratagem to have a 3+ for the rest of the game. Bonus points if you somehow manage to get them in cover so it's a 2+. Could cause some serious rage.

Also, ammo runts. Since you are not limited by transport size and the don't cost PL 15 Flash gits would bring along 15 grots to be shot. Or you could bring along 30 gretchin and a runtherd for the grot shield stratagem.

6 Killa Kans don't strike me as a good prospect, their melee output is too low for me without buffs.

You still get six rokkits hitting on 4+, with DakkaDakkaDakka having a 50% chance to chuck in another. Their melee hasn't impressed me, no matter how many buffs you brought along, but six of them aren't exactly easy to shift. 3 Kanz+1 Deff dread might be an option to create an instant dread mob.

6 MANZ? Now we're talking! Hopefully they get either a durability increase or increase in damage to make them a little more viable but no doubt 6 of them appearing out of nowhere will be a problem for any opponent. It also helps solve their massive weakness. Again, why not have them kill a vehicle then use the Looted strat? 1+ save sounds decent, especially if you're the clan that's always in cover Hello ignoring -2 AP shooting!

From a pure power perspective, I'd put them with evil suns to help them make their charges.

The Bustas feel very expensive for the drop unless they get better armour. They're pretty much guaranteed to die but again, if you can kill a vehicle in melee to get the extra armour and you take the cover clan rule you might be able to do work on round 3 too. If nothing else the enemy will throw everything at them until they're dead. Might be a good gambit to kill something like a Knight or another critical vehicle.

30 tank bustas with 8 bomb squigs jumping next to a knight? Averages say you one-shot a knight with active rotated ion shields. Even if you don't he won't last long afterwards. The main gain here is that the tank bustas can't be shot off the board before they do anything.

What PL is Ghazzy?

Thrakka is PL 11 - he pretty much doesn't fit with anything useful, like most characters. Good game design by accident, if you ask me.

Better make damn sure the opponent doesn't have forewarned/auspex scan if you want to tellyport tankbustas in haha. Those guys would melt under any sort of firepower

Regarding Ghaz as a PL deepstrike drop.
Interesting idea how do younz feel about tellyportin in buffing characters ? Ghaz, a pain boy, a WAAAGH banner (or 2) a Big mek, what ever combination, don't forget that weird boy to cast warparth. I'm thinking 40boys jumped up, 90 storm boys Zagstukk, 45 Kommandos and buffs. Mostly a very goff-ish assault. Maybe not the kommandos. but keep them blood Axe and make them red skulls with snikrot. for the reroll 1's.
My only disinterest is the number of named characters, so I doubt I'd even try it.


Speaking of weird boys, I hope we get a LvL 2 caster.

I doubt there will be more than 3 worthwhile powers in our discipline

Probably two more not-smites and something that's very situational.

 Jidmah wrote:
I doubt there will be more than 3 worthwhile powers in our discipline

Probably two more not-smites and something that's very situational.

Even more reason for a LvL 2 weirdboy. Let the smite flow like wine. and maybe another power too.

I would also love a weirder boy Something like 2 casts & 2 denies for 100-120ish points sounds appealing to me

That would be a Warphead - we actually had those in our codex before 7th

That said, the current weird boy is better than all our psykers of the last four editions combined. If you ask me, he is fine as it is.

 Jidmah wrote:
That would be a Warphead - we actually had those in our codex before 7th

That said, the current weird boy is better than all our psykers of the last four editions combined. If you ask me, he is fine as it is.

Oh cool, did not know that. Guess I missed some stuff during my 13 year hiatus from 40k haha. Regarding the Warphead, I don't really see a need for one as such but it'd be fun to have. I personally don't want more than one psyker in my Evil Sunz list but considering that's a completely self-imposed restriction I understand many people would just take two weirdboys if they want better psychic phases.

Spoletta wrote:
Mathematically speaking there is indeed no difference between the second part of the dakka dakka rule and rerolling 1's to hit, which isn't half bad as a bonus. Only time will tell though if that is enough.

Extra shots on 6s is better than re-rolling 1s.

for evil sunz. a fun combo would to "mob up" 2 squads of 10 meganobz (if this strat remains) then have a weirdboy dajump them right to the enemy. then if the telyport strat allows gmorkanauts and can arrive at the same time as the manz then telyport the gorkanaught right at the enemy.

if all this works though the rules and no strat is halted by the enemy (DE) then you have 20 manz and a "ramming speed" gorkanaut right into the enemy.

time to get kromped by the red bully mob!

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
Mathematically speaking there is indeed no difference between the second part of the dakka dakka rule and rerolling 1's to hit, which isn't half bad as a bonus. Only time will tell though if that is enough.

Extra shots on 6s is better than re-rolling 1s.

Actually, both provide the exact same increase in hits.

For one you roll an additional hit dice when rolling a one for the other when rolling a six.

When you have both, their bonus multiplies, since you can also re-roll ones for the extra shots and you can get extra shots from the ones you re-rolled.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

geargutz wrote:
for evil sunz. a fun combo would to "mob up" 2 squads of 10 meganobz (if this strat remains) then have a weirdboy dajump them right to the enemy. then if the telyport strat allows gmorkanauts and can arrive at the same time as the manz then telyport the gorkanaught right at the enemy.

if all this works though the rules and no strat is halted by the enemy (DE) then you have 20 manz and a "ramming speed" gorkanaut right into the enemy.

time to get kromped by the red bully mob!

MANz would be 10+9 (Second mob needs to be below 10).

Also those MANz can pile in and fight again afterwards

Isn't it just that statistically you'd get the same amount of hits but rerolling 1's will never net you more than 1 hit per shot whereas extra shots on 6's could result in 2 hits for every single shot fired?

Ah, didn't think about that. I guess there is a chance to have more hits than shots, even if it's small.

PiñaColada wrote:
Isn't it just that statistically you'd get the same amount of hits but rerolling 1's will never net you more than 1 hit per shot whereas extra shots on 6's could result in 2 hits for every single shot fired?

Which means in long run you get more hits. If average is same but max is more the one with bigger max is generally better

Btw regarding clan traits while nice game wise are odd fluff wise like they were mixed up. Eldar suffers from this.

For example bikes etc don't want to be evil sunz. Blood axe better. Or how with tellyport evil sunz is master of ambush and foot horde while blood axe goes screw cover. And snakebites and evil sunz are best walker build...

I might count as clans as different clans.

Goff is reasonably fluffy though they are the ones know for strenght. Ba equilavent might have been better for fluff(or extra s) though possibly broken

Long run you get the same number of hits. 38.888 of so out of a hundred.

Its just 6s give you a 5.5~ % chance to get two hits but you get nothing 66% of the time.
In a tournament reliability is usually better than hoping for a lucky spike.

yeah the rumored (and most likely true) clan traits don't fit well with their intended clans and how they fight.

though snakebites ability still would benefit squigoths (you just have to pay bloated FW prices...or convert something).

evilsunz still will benefit bikes and buggies because those models like to move and advance and still fire their weapons effectively.

blooddaxes at least allows your komandoes to not have to forced into cover (lore wise not good, but better game wise).

besides, all these clans are loosely formed groups of orks that have similarities, they are not defined by their units, its just those units tend to drift to those clans.

the cult of speed is a cult because any ork clan can have speedfreek fanatics (they are just more commonly found in evilsunz).

the tech ignorant snakebites are known for marking steam powered stompas (so its not too much of a stretch for snakebite dreadmobs).

in the end you can justify any pairing of list with clan, its just more convincing if you can pull of the correct paint jobs and the maybe some nifty conversions (imagine a whole dreadmob of snakebites and its just fantasy giant squigs and fantasy trolls with killakan and deffdredd bits).

what i would love would be clan insignia sprues (if sm can get theirs, we could get ours, though still unlikely).

Based on the clan rumors I am conflicted about which clan I prefer. I had expected eff Skulls were what my go too would be but after these rumors , possibly tightened up, to a single of the rerolls I'm much less inclined. With my playstyle I am tempted to go goffs. Snake bites are a strong second right now as well.

 warhead01 wrote:
Based on the clan rumors I am conflicted about which clan I prefer. I had expected eff Skulls were what my go too would be but after these rumors , possibly tightened up, to a single of the rerolls I'm much less inclined. With my playstyle I am tempted to go goffs. Snake bites are a strong second right now as well.

yeah, my army is painted deffskulls, but that clan trait is underwhelming. my deathskulls focus on dreddmobs, so having 6up invul is pointless, most high ap weapons will force my walkers to having a 6up save anyway. id rather pay for the kff for this (the invul is better for massed boyz).

we need better clarification on the "reroll" once per turn ability. its been vary meh with some saying its only for a single save or attack or wound. if you want to buff the iconic loota of the defskullz it would be better to allow them to "reroll one dice roll per turn" so you can reroll the number of shots instead of using a stratagem.

the "looted" rule that gives a unit a bonus armor save from a wrecked vehicle is most likely a deffskull stratagem (since the whole clan is known for nicking things). this stratagem. if i understand. only affects infantry, so its best to use for nobz or meganobz. so that might work for doing defskullz if you focus on units like that.(its not a good strat for normal 6upsave boyz since going to a five up is very underwhelming and any ap would negate it instantly and you would rely on the invul anyway).

yeah, i run dreadmob that is painted defskull but i will most likely use the evilsunz or the bloodaxe trait for them.