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orktober articles
5 actual ork related articles with only 1 with anything new in it.
20 non ork related articles.
despite the cool model they have shown this week, GW is dropping the ball. they deserve all the vitriol.when it comes to orks, GW is not a company of its word.
time to berate them everyday until they actually give us preorder dates.

Smaller squads take moral casualties more rapidly and suffer more from things like overwatch. If you expect to lose 3 or 4 boys in overwatch, for a squad of twenty this isnt a problem. 17 or 16 boys will likely kill or put a dent in most non vehicles or beefy combat specialist squads. A squad of five though? Not gunna cut it. Smaller squads make it easier to spread fire out and make each squad individually unthreatening. Also, worse for strategems like the interrupt combat order one. You get fewer boys interrupting yourself, and it gives opponents more opportunities for impactful interrupts.

geargutz wrote:
orktober articles
5 actual ork related articles with only 1 with anything new in it.
20 non ork related articles.
despite the cool model they have shown this week, GW is dropping the ball. they deserve all the vitriol.when it comes to orks, GW is not a company of its word.
time to berate them everyday until they actually give us preorder dates.

I am disappointed that they haven't given us anything rules-wise to work with for the buggies, they have been hitting it out of the park with most of the video pieces though.

the video stuff is exactly what a good advert should be, something you see and decide to show others

ill ask here, since im afraid i might get the ork news and rumors thread locked with asking about it there.
BrookM " Round and round it goes. If you can't stick to the topic we'll lock it and leave it locked until something happens."

so, do the mods on dakka dakka heavily police all "non rumors" in the rumor thread, or is it just our threads that they berate us for going "off topic"?

-removed by insaniak-

I'm not going to berate GW. There's still a lot of Orktober left.

I really like the new models, and I like the funny commercials. I would like to see more articles, and of course it would be nice to have the codex in my hands right now. As long as the codex goes up for pre-order in October and it doesn't suck I won't berate GW though.

Them posting the new buggy outline and then taking 3+ days to reveal it is a little annoying, but going a few days without an ork article really isn't a big deal.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
I'm not going to berate GW. There's still a lot of Orktober left.

I really like the new models, and I like the funny commercials. I would like to see more articles, and of course it would be nice to have the codex in my hands right now. As long as the codex goes up for pre-order in October and it doesn't suck I won't berate GW though.

Them posting the new buggy outline and then taking 3+ days to reveal it is a little annoying, but going a few days without an ork article really isn't a big deal.

I agree. GW has been working very hard trying to get all of the factions out in record time (yes, this many codexes in 12 months is a record) in addition to a little Sigmar, specialty games and a VERY well done push for killteam.

No doubt the ork buggies (and other models we are getting) likely pushed us to the (near) end of the line. At least we're not genestealers.

Among the Dakka posters are people who are angry that a toy company isn't producing 31 days or content for them, like they "promised".

F'in grow up.

tneva82 wrote:
But that's the answer. Bigger squad takes more shots before it's useless. That's clear survivability issue. Small squads of orks are soft paper and once below 10 best bet is to run and hide.

You asked "Why do you think the size of the squad effect survivability". Well squad size directly affects survivability. 10 more wounds before unit reaches uselessness.

Ok, well what I was really referring too, was point for point, 3 squads of 20 boyz are as survivable as 2 squads of 30 (even ignoring the nob for the extra wound).

These threads on ork stuff have become a drag to read with the amount of negative energy in them. I normally prefer to get my hobby news from forums because I can get some commentary with them, but when the vast majority of that commentary is just a merry-go-round of the same grips and objections it is pretty tiresome. And yes, I'm aware that now I just gave the whole thing another push, but honestly I'm bringing it up because I'd be perfectly fine with a mod lock on these massive threads until the next article comes out and then just allowing discussion around that article until the next one comes out.

I understand being upset and disappointed if we don't get the kits until November, or if once we see the rules for the buggies or the codex they turn out to be real bad, but we really don't know anything yet and the complaints are overbearing.

I'll be happy regardless of rules because I plan on using the speed freeks set as part of a gorkamorka campaign so their tabletop stats won't effect that. I'm hoping for good rules like everyone else but can't we at least wait for that before people get whipped up into such a negative fury?

 JimOnMars wrote:

Among the Dakka posters are people who are angry that a toy company isn't producing 31 days or content for them, like they "promised".

F'in grow up.

things GW said about orktober
"To celebrate the return of everyone’s favourite green-skinned warmongering, barbaric xenos this Orktober, we’ve got an entire month’s worth of exciting content for you to help get you in the mood for Waaagh!"
(so an entire "months worth" seems like 31days of articles to me)
"Orktober is going to be awesome, so don’t forget to check back each day to see what news and articles we have for you."
(i checked back everyday, only 5 of the 7 days so far have had anything ork related, and only one of those revealed anything new)

we dont need to "grow up", we are being reasonable.
if GW doesn't want to keep to their word then they should not say such things.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

ManTube wrote:
I'd be perfectly fine with a mod lock on these massive threads until the next article comes out and then just allowing discussion around that article until the next one comes out.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/2070/762091.page#10180977

your welcome to go over there instead where the mods threaten to lock the thread all the time. you'll probably get along with brookm.

geargutz wrote:
ill ask here, since im afraid i might get the ork news and rumors thread locked with asking about it there.
BrookM " Round and round it goes. If you can't stick to the topic we'll lock it and leave it locked until something happens."

so, do the mods on dakka dakka heavily police all "non rumors" in the rumor thread, or is it just our threads that they berate us for going "off topic"?

'Heavily'? ...no, not really. A certain amount of off-topic chatter is often allowed to slide on N&R threads, so long as it doesn't take the thread entirely off the rails.

In the case of the Ork thread, people keep insisting on sidelining the Ork discussion with arguing over GW business practices, and so the thread has needed a couple of reminders to get back on track. As with any thread, if those reminders continue to go unheeded, the thread will be locked.

aaaaand next weeks previews/preorder? More kill team! But hey there is a painboy in one of the pictures so I guess it counts for Orktober!

I was hoping for a stratagem that allowed orks to fire into a combat with friendly grots, with a chance to wound the friendly grots.

Now I'm hoping that's a stratagem that works for any friendly ork unit and the grots just have it built into their data sheet, no stratagem needed.

redboi wrote:
aaaaand next weeks previews/preorder? More kill team! But hey there is a painboy in one of the pictures so I guess it counts for Orktober!

at this point if there isnt an article on monday trying desperately trying to placate the ork players (just look at all the comments on the Facebook page) then we can assume this is how GW is going to do orktober. maybe one article each week of any substance, another article that is a "whos dat pokemon" thing and the rest are about ork stuff we already know.

seems like we are going to have to prepare for a long wait. and since i have some irrational fears of stuff, this makes me think the ork codex is going to suck. it seems they are actively trying to unhype us for our release and what is probably a bad codex (i would be happy to be proven wrong).

My paranoid fear after the intro fluff article (which was overall pretty good) saying that more often than not ork tech shouldn't work, and a bunch of people saying that they hope the Megatrakk Scrapjet can fly based on the "you don't need wings to fly" advertising, is that GW is going to lean really hard into the "ork stuff doesn't work they just think it does" meme.

Note that I like both the Megatrakk Scrapjet model and commercial, and I like the idea of orks being latent psykers and that helping their tech work better, I just don't like it getting stretched where most ork stuff is just rusty totems powered entirely by belief.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

Note that I like both the Megatrakk Scrapjet model and commercial, and I like the idea of orks being latent psykers and that helping their tech work better, I just don't like it getting stretched where most ork stuff is just rusty totems powered entirely by belief.

yeah, i like the "psychic grease" more then "just believe". if what orks believed worked then ork meks wouldn't be needed.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
But that's the answer. Bigger squad takes more shots before it's useless. That's clear survivability issue. Small squads of orks are soft paper and once below 10 best bet is to run and hide.

You asked "Why do you think the size of the squad effect survivability". Well squad size directly affects survivability. 10 more wounds before unit reaches uselessness.

You keep saying that units suddenly become useless at 10 models, but I don't understand why you think that. Obviously Mob Rule gets less good as your unit gets smaller, but it can be mitigated by having a single large unit surrounded by many small ones, having a warboss nearby or being such a small unit that you are virtually immune to morale anyway. Otherwise, I'm not clear why four units of five orks aren't as good or better than one unit of twenty, for example.

Msu doesn't work as well for orks. There are several reasons.
- Mob rule and greentide bonuses. You can theoretically try to make an army of, say, 2*30 blobz and than spread the rest of the army into 10 strong mobs but this means that with split fire enemy will have easier time pushing morale casualties having downed the larger squads. Orks are not too durable and it's easy to do.
- Da jump. Doesn't need explanation.
-Movement, positioning, removing casualties shenanigans and overwatch. You got to use all the positioning advantages that large blobs provide. Larger squads mean you have more freedom of picking casualties. For example, you need to lock something in combat. You form an X shaped structure around a model after the pile ins. But you do need your orks to be left alive to do this. 10 models won't always cut it after overwatch and mellee. Squads also get in a way of one another and usually reduce the amount of damage you can deal in mellee. Besides, if the opponent is not up front, some swuads will need to make longer charges than others. Means they will be left behind and that's the worst you can do. Threat overload is our biggest advantage and main strategy.
- Missions. Orks are dependent on maelstorm. Giving your opponent easy time at getting more cp for kill missions is not a good idea. While the bonuses to scoring that msu provide to other armies are not as noticeable for orks due to us allready running kmk for this purposes. Grot gunners are allready amazing for scoring.

Thus, potential advantages of msu are not even close to large blob advantages.

 JimOnMars wrote:
I agree. GW has been working very hard trying to get all of the factions out in record time (yes, this many codexes in 12 months is a record) in addition to a little Sigmar, specialty games and a VERY well done push for killteam.

No doubt the ork buggies (and other models we are getting) likely pushed us to the (near) end of the line. At least we're not genestealers.

Among the Dakka posters are people who are angry that a toy company isn't producing 31 days or content for them, like they "promised".

F'in grow up.

Thing is if you're an Ork only player you don't really give a gak about how hard GW have worked to get all the codexes out. It doesn't feel any faster to me when my particular faction is dropped 18 months later than 8th launching. It also doesn't feel fast when GW have a quick fire set of codex releases with very little downtime then decide to slow down to a halt for the last few.

We've seen entirely new factions released before anything for us. We've seen factions get multiple staggered releases before we've had anything. We've seen entirely new game systems released before we've had anything.

We've been patient. We've waited for an incredibly long time, relatively speaking.

GW have dropped the ball with Orks a number of times this year. They announced our codex ages ago, the only codex to have such a long wait in between announcement and delivery. After their announcement there followed a period of radio silence and other, unrelated releases. They then heard the Ork player base were annoyed (apparently) and decided they'd placate us by naming an entire month after the faction. They stated there would be releases, articles, information and that the wait was almost over.

Its October 8th and there have been no Ork releases. There have been other releases for other factions. It looks as though there will be no releases for Orks until the earliest 27th. That isn't what I would describe as an 'Orktober'. GW have disappointed me, again, as an Ork player.

There's a lot of shaming of the Ork community at the moment by a few Ork players but mostly players of other factions and its a disgrace. People have a right to express their dissatisfaction with a business. People are in their right to question a company when it claims its going to do a thing then doesn't deliver. People are not at fault when GW set expectations that they fail to meet. Now if you don't like to read these posts I'd suggest you grow up and move on without commenting. Don't try and act like a white knight defending GW for doing something stupid.

At this point they have honestly lost me. Don't really have any interest in picking up the new stuff anymore. Too little, way too late. I was ready to drop some serious dough back in June but I have literally zero excitement in me anymore.

I might snag the codex when it comes out next month if it's actually decent though. Even then I'll probably wait until after CA2018, knowing GW's over zealousness with nerfs and rules changes recently.

 koooaei wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
But that's the answer. Bigger squad takes more shots before it's useless. That's clear survivability issue. Small squads of orks are soft paper and once below 10 best bet is to run and hide.

You asked "Why do you think the size of the squad effect survivability". Well squad size directly affects survivability. 10 more wounds before unit reaches uselessness.

You keep saying that units suddenly become useless at 10 models, but I don't understand why you think that. Obviously Mob Rule gets less good as your unit gets smaller, but it can be mitigated by having a single large unit surrounded by many small ones, having a warboss nearby or being such a small unit that you are virtually immune to morale anyway. Otherwise, I'm not clear why four units of five orks aren't as good or better than one unit of twenty, for example.

Msu doesn't work as well for orks. There are several reasons.
- Mob rule and greentide bonuses. You can theoretically try to make an army of, say, 2*30 blobz and than spread the rest of the army into 10 strong mobs but this means that with split fire enemy will have easier time pushing morale casualties having downed the larger squads. Orks are not too durable and it's easy to do.
- Da jump. Doesn't need explanation.
-Movement, positioning, removing casualties shenanigans and overwatch. You got to use all the positioning advantages that large blobs provide. Larger squads mean you have more freedom of picking casualties. For example, you need to lock something in combat. You form an X shaped structure around a model after the pile ins. But you do need your orks to be left alive to do this. 10 models won't always cut it after overwatch and mellee. Squads also get in a way of one another and usually reduce the amount of damage you can deal in mellee. Besides, if the opponent is not up front, some swuads will need to make longer charges than others. Means they will be left behind and that's the worst you can do. Threat overload is our biggest advantage and main strategy.
- Missions. Orks are dependent on maelstorm. Giving your opponent easy time at getting more cp for kill missions is not a good idea. While the bonuses to scoring that msu provide to other armies are not as noticeable for orks due to us allready running kmk for this purposes. Grot gunners are allready amazing for scoring.

Thus, potential advantages of msu are not even close to large blob advantages.

Don't forget having to use 4 activations to strike same amount as 1 unit of 20 can do. Means you'll be losing more orks _before they get to strike_. What you think opponent will attack? The unit that already attacked or unit that has yet to act...

Also, with how picking casualties works there is nothing preventing your opponent from removing them away from your squads that haven't struck yet. Means even more damage loss and casualties increase for you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And there are plenty of aoe damage sourses. More than squad-size based ones.

Haha, even I've dropped out of this thread. GW has shown me more than enough cool stuff to last me a while as an Evil Sunz player. XD

Goddamnit people, stop bitching. Orktober =/= nothing but Ork releases and articles for a month (and no, "a month worth of Ork articles" does not mean an Ork article EVERY SINGLE DAY). My prediction right now is 20th October Speed Freeks preorder, 27th Codex (and hopefully a couple other new models) pre-order. I agree it's a little cheesy that GW uses pre-order dates as "launch dates" but eh. I think Orks will go the way of the Death Guard: Codex release with a couple of new models (Speed Freeks and hopefully a little more with the Codex in this case), then frequent releases of new models through November/ December and maybe January. And yes, the wait has been very long, but Orks get more new stuff than any other faction have received in 8th bar Primaris marines and Death Guard. Personally I can't wait, I'm restarting my Ork army (that admittedly never got very far (more like very near ), I have a few assembled models though) and am really looking forward to race them across the tabletop (Dem 'umies, blooberries, bugz and pointy-ears keep getting in da way an' splattered for some reeson... )

And to add a personal pinch of salt: I think Space Wolf players (which I am myself as well) have it a lot worse, we had to wait a long time for our codex as well and only got a new Primaris Battle Leader model (I was all hyped for a Leman Russ and/ or special SW Primaris units release because Space Puppies took 8 months longer to release than Dark and Blood Angels and only came after the codex release of a bunch of minor factions ). Yes, I know SW was featured in a box as well but that didn't contain any new models besides said Battle Leader.

Pandabeer wrote:
Goddamnit people, stop bitching. Orktober =/= nothing but Ork releases and articles for a month (and no, "a month worth of Ork articles" does not mean an Ork article EVERY SINGLE DAY). My prediction right now is 20th October Speed Freeks preorder, 27th Codex (and hopefully a couple other new models) pre-order. I agree it's a little cheesy that GW uses pre-order dates as "launch dates" but eh. I think Orks will go the way of the Death Guard: Codex release with a couple of new models (Speed Freeks and hopefully a little more with the Codex in this case), then frequent releases of new models through November/ December and maybe January. And yes, the wait has been very long, but Orks get more new stuff than any other faction have received in 8th bar Primaris marines and Death Guard. Personally I can't wait, I'm restarting my Ork army (that admittedly never got very far (more like very near ), I have a few assembled models though) and am really looking forward to race them across the tabletop (Dem 'umies, blooberries, bugs and pointy-ears keep getting in da way an' splattered for some reeson... )

And to add a personal pinch of salt: I think Space Wolf players (which I am myself as well) have it a lot worse, we had to wait a long time for our codex as well and only got a new Primaris Battle Leader model (I was all hyped for a Leman Russ and/ or special SW Primaris units release because Space Puppies took 8 months longer to release than Dark and Blood Angels and only came after the codex release of a bunch of minor factions ). Yes, I know SW was featured in a box as well but that didn't contain any new models besides said Battle Leader.

No one expected only Ork stuff to be released. But it would have been nice if ANY Ork stuff was released in "Orktober". We are now more than a week with zero new info. This following week has already been dedicated to Kill Team. We are now looking at the 27th being the absolute earliest that anything Ork related can be released. They've already said Speedfreeks is coming before the codex.

When October comes to an end and there is still no codex, will Ork players be allowed to be salty then?

redboi wrote:

When October comes to an end and there is still no codex, will Ork players be allowed to be salty then?

If we say yes, will you lay off it now?

Pandabeer wrote:
Goddamnit people, stop bitching. Orktober =/= nothing but Ork releases and articles for a month (and no, "a month worth of Ork articles" does not mean an Ork article EVERY SINGLE DAY). My prediction right now is 20th October Speed Freeks preorder, 27th Codex (and hopefully a couple other new models) pre-order. I agree it's a little cheesy that GW uses pre-order dates as "launch dates" but eh. I think Orks will go the way of the Death Guard: Codex release with a couple of new models (Speed Freeks and hopefully a little more with the Codex in this case), then frequent releases of new models through November/ December and maybe January. And yes, the wait has been very long, but Orks get more new stuff than any other faction have received in 8th bar Primaris marines and Death Guard. Personally I can't wait, I'm restarting my Ork army (that admittedly never got very far (more like very near ), I have a few assembled models though) and am really looking forward to race them across the tabletop (Dem 'umies, blooberries, bugz and pointy-ears keep getting in da way an' splattered for some reeson... )

And to add a personal pinch of salt: I think Space Wolf players (which I am myself as well) have it a lot worse, we had to wait a long time for our codex as well and only got a new Primaris Battle Leader model (I was all hyped for a Leman Russ and/ or special SW Primaris units release because Space Puppies took 8 months longer to release than Dark and Blood Angels and only came after the codex release of a bunch of minor factions ). Yes, I know SW was featured in a box as well but that didn't contain any new models besides said Battle Leader.

No one has complained that there's other releases. The complaints are that there are no Ork releases so far in Orktober and it looks like there won't be any until November.

I really wish people would stop pretending like GW didn't create this whole mess themselves;
"To celebrate the return of everyone’s favourite green-skinned warmongering, barbaric xenos this Orktober, we’ve got an entire month’s worth of exciting content for you to help get you in the mood for Waaagh!"
"Orktober is going to be awesome, so don’t forget to check back each day to see what news and articles we have for you."
"Watch out for more Orks vehicles and more rules previews as Orktober approaches…" - Nova Open.
"We’ll be looking at the new rules in detail soon, but here’s something cool from the new book – Dakka! Dakka! Dakka!:" - posted 30th August....soon???

GW have set expectations then failed to meet them. You're saying it's a players' fault for getting pissed at GW for not doing something they claimed they would do? How does that make sense? There were no details and vehicle previews before Orktober as they suggested. There has been virtually nothing since "Orktober" has began. GW could have avoided this if they didn't say that they would do otherwise in previous articles.

This was supposed to be the Orks' month (according to GW themselves). By way of making us feel good after the long wait for a codex and, presumably, the awful treatment of our faction in previous years. So far we've had a focus on Shadespire and an Aeldari/SM box set no one asked for in week one. In week two we're getting a focus on Kill Team Commanders. It seems likely week three will be Kill Team also (if the pre-order is out on the 20th). So we get a week at the end of the month. Colour me disappointed. If you can't understand that I don't know what to say. It's a pretty logical thing though, if one of my team says they are going to do something and they don't do it I am disappointed. This is a normal and sensible reaction.

Enough of the white knighting. Enough of the attempted shaming. If you don't like the reaction of the community, I suggest you direct your ire at GW, for causing it.

E - at least this YouTuber knows how to Orktober better than GW - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRwe30dRrXA&feature=youtu.be (Clan specific Warlord Traits)

Bad Moons :4+ invulnerable save
Blood axes: if your warlord is on the battlefield, roll a dice for every command point used. On a 6 that command point is refunded
Deathskulls: warlord re rolls 1s when attacking a vehicle. Enemy characters can be targeted with a shooting attack by this warlord even if they are not the closest unit.
Evil sunz: evil suns units within 6” of the warlord can charge even if they fell back earlier in the turn.
Freebooters: reroll hit rolls of 1’s for attacks made by friendly freebooter models while within 6”s of this warlord.
Goffs: add 1 to this warlords attack characteristic
Snakebites: re roll morale for snakebite units when they are 6”s from this warlord. Gretchin auto pass morale when they are within 12”s of this warlord.

I really like the Evil Sunz one. That would make the (likely) quickness of the buggies not null and void after the first time they touc CC. Ram 'em in to some soft targets here and there to tarpit and keep them safe until your next turn..

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Thing is if you're an Ork only player you don't really give a gak about how hard GW have worked to get all the codexes out. It doesn't feel any faster to me when my particular faction is dropped 18 months later than 8th launching. It also doesn't feel fast when GW have a quick fire set of codex releases with very little downtime then decide to slow down to a halt for the last few.

We've seen entirely new factions released before anything for us. We've seen factions get multiple staggered releases before we've had anything. We've seen entirely new game systems released before we've had anything.

We've been patient. We've waited for an incredibly long time, relatively speaking.

There it is. An incredibly long time. Relatively speaking.

Thing is GW isn't just 40K. AoS can't be allowed to languish. There are other systems that need attention. There are models that were planned and designed well before 8th was a twinkle in your dad's eye. The new Keeper of Secrets rumor that is what...5 or 6 years old now and it's just coming out *maybe* this year with the Slaanesh update?

The Ork codex very likely could have come much sooner *without* any new kits, but then we'd still be in the same spot listening to complaints about old kits. The codex was announced with SW and GSC in June - four months. The article header? "The Far Future". You decided of your own accord to determine that the gap between announcement and release was going to be the same as previous announcements.

And, yea, I play Orks. Lots of people here aren't monogamous.

People are not at fault when GW set expectations that they fail to meet.

And GW is not responsible for expectations you set for them based on your personal interpretations. That's not white knighting. It's absolute exhaustion from reading the same thing over and over again. Release after release. Complaining isn't going to change their release schedule nor is it going to change how people choose to interpret a rule (like units in rhinos dying after turn 3). If you have legitimate constructive criticism for them - great - do that. This is not that.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:


E - at least this YouTuber knows how to Orktober better than GW - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRwe30dRrXA&feature=youtu.be (Clan specific Warlord Traits)

Bad Moons :4+ invulnerable save
Blood axes: if your warlord is on the battlefield, roll a dice for every command point used. On a 6 that command point is refunded
Deathskulls: warlord re rolls 1s when attacking a vehicle. Enemy characters can be targeted with a shooting attack by this warlord even if they are not the closest unit.
Evil sunz: evil suns units within 6” of the warlord can charge even if they fell back earlier in the turn.
Freebooters: reroll hit rolls of 1’s for attacks made by friendly freebooter models while within 6”s of this warlord.
Goffs: add 1 to this warlords attack characteristic
Snakebites: re roll morale for snakebite units when they are 6”s from this warlord. Gretchin auto pass morale when they are within 12”s of this warlord.

welcome to the GW labelled orktober, who promised an entire months worth of content (and we are 4 days with no articles) and we have so far gotten more news about the codex from our favorite leakers!
i would laugh if this wasn't so pathetic