Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Just watched a video on someone who has the new codex....wow, i am a bit depressed. The way he worded my Blood Axe trait is that we get cover unless we are 18' or less away from the enemy...you know....when we would need that bonus the absolute most. This really hurts my Kommandos because they will pretty much never be 18' away from the enemy and you have to be at least partially in cover...... I was really hoping it was just blanket always in cover across the board but meh. I guess i'll be playing my Speed Freakz list a lot more then I thought :(

It needed a restriction, because 3+ boyz would have been rough. 18" might be too much though. It certainly changes the dynamic of how I would use it.

It doesn't seem like you need to be in terrain, but I see where you get that.

You couldn't get 3+ unless you bought "ard Boyz" with CP which is stupidly over priced and then used the loot strategy to get +1 armor for a destroyed vehicle and then the +1 for cover but only if they are 18' from enemy units.....The biggest benefit would have been to Kommandos who are 9ppm (maybe less now) who would have been 4+. But because of the wording its useless

MWG went the smart route and recored a Bad Moonz vs Freebooterz battle report (not posted yet).

SemperMortis wrote:


You couldn't get 3+ unless you bought "ard Boyz" with CP which is stupidly over priced and then used the loot strategy to get +1 armor for a destroyed vehicle and then the +1 for cover but only if they are 18' from enemy units.....The biggest benefit would have been to Kommandos who are 9ppm (maybe less now) who would have been 4+. But because of the wording its useless

Orks have reasonable access to CP though.

Lootas are on a 4+ stock, so 3+ with Blood Axes and 2+ with Ard Boyz. They want to be out of 18" anyway. Stick KMKs near them and when they blow stack to them 1+ (essentially). Drag two full units, mob them up, and then use More Dakka. Madness.

Has anyone seen cost on Lootas or if the gun is the same?

 lord_blackfang wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Not convinced any transport is worth deepstriking like that. Too easy to be surrounded, destroyed and lose whole squad. Gorkanaut seems safer bet with 8" charge

Melee battlwagon apparently has 6+D6 defrolla ttacks hitting on 2+ at S9 Ap-2 D2 and you can strategem it for a 3d6" charge and D3MW impact hits. Could be worth it, even empty?

Deff rolla got +1 strength and damage, so any wagon with a deff rolla now does 6 S9 AP-2 D2 attacks hitting on 2+. We finally got our anti-tank ramming back!

Current battlewagon datasheet still exists with the same options. Base cost 100

Bonekrusha always comes with a 'ard case, can only take "small guns" (not sure if that means only shootas or just no killkannon), transport size is down to 12 and gets +1d6 attacks and additional mortal woundswhen it has charged. Deff rolla is mandatory, which makes it at least 120+19

Dakkafortress also has a transport capacity of 12, but gets BS4+ and shoots its main gun twice (killkannon?). It also seems to come with a bunch of weapons mandatory, but neither stream I was watching was too clear about that. Forgot how many points those were.

There also is a boarding plank stratagem which allows all passengers to make one melee attack from inside trukks or battlewagons.

In general, I'd say the battlewagon is back in the game.

Silly combo land:
Evil suns Bonekrusha with a unit of big choppa nobz (10x19 points now) and a kff mek wearing the red armor inside. Tellyport in, use ramming stratagem, charge re-rollable 3d6+1, cause mortal wounds for bone krusha, cause mortal wounds for ramming, cause mortal wounds for red armor, do 6+1d6 S9 AP-2 D2 attacks, do another S7 AP-1 D2 attacks.
On average, this causes your opponent to want to see your codex.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:


You couldn't get 3+ unless you bought "ard Boyz" with CP which is stupidly over priced and then used the loot strategy to get +1 armor for a destroyed vehicle and then the +1 for cover but only if they are 18' from enemy units.....The biggest benefit would have been to Kommandos who are 9ppm (maybe less now) who would have been 4+. But because of the wording its useless

Orks have reasonable access to CP though.

Lootas are on a 4+ stock, so 3+ with Blood Axes and 2+ with Ard Boyz. They want to be out of 18" anyway. Stick KMKs near them and when they blow stack to them 1+ (essentially). Drag two full units, mob them up, and then use More Dakka. Madness.

Has anyone seen cost on Lootas or if the gun is the same?

Lootas are 4+??? Where did you see that?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:


You couldn't get 3+ unless you bought "ard Boyz" with CP which is stupidly over priced and then used the loot strategy to get +1 armor for a destroyed vehicle and then the +1 for cover but only if they are 18' from enemy units.....The biggest benefit would have been to Kommandos who are 9ppm (maybe less now) who would have been 4+. But because of the wording its useless

Orks have reasonable access to CP though.

Lootas are on a 4+ stock, so 3+ with Blood Axes and 2+ with Ard Boyz. They want to be out of 18" anyway. Stick KMKs near them and when they blow stack to them 1+ (essentially). Drag two full units, mob them up, and then use More Dakka. Madness.

Has anyone seen cost on Lootas or if the gun is the same?

4+ base was leaked for Lootas? NICE! They can't take "Ard Boy" though, I thought that was only boy units. But yeah I'll probably still plunk them in cover and get my 3+ regardless. I'd rather take them in a Bad Moonz detachment to get more rerolls and then plop the exploding 5s and double dakka strats off on them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
unrelated, but someone mentioned in passing that Lootas were 2 wounds now..... Quork will be happy.

SemperMortis wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:


You couldn't get 3+ unless you bought "ard Boyz" with CP which is stupidly over priced and then used the loot strategy to get +1 armor for a destroyed vehicle and then the +1 for cover but only if they are 18' from enemy units.....The biggest benefit would have been to Kommandos who are 9ppm (maybe less now) who would have been 4+. But because of the wording its useless

Orks have reasonable access to CP though.

Lootas are on a 4+ stock, so 3+ with Blood Axes and 2+ with Ard Boyz. They want to be out of 18" anyway. Stick KMKs near them and when they blow stack to them 1+ (essentially). Drag two full units, mob them up, and then use More Dakka. Madness.

Has anyone seen cost on Lootas or if the gun is the same?

4+ base was leaked for Lootas? NICE! They can't take "Ard Boy" though, I thought that was only boy units. But yeah I'll probably still plunk them in cover and get my 3+ regardless. I'd rather take them in a Bad Moonz detachment to get more rerolls and then plop the exploding 5s and double dakka strats off on them.

I don't think it's been a leak. I think it's just a mistake. Lootas are 6+ and I've yet to hear anything to the contrary. That being said, I think it'd be fantastic if they were, but I can't see that happening without a point increase.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
unrelated, but someone mentioned in passing that Lootas were 2 wounds now..... Quork will be happy.

 Jidmah wrote:
Silly combo land:
Evil suns Bonekrusha with a unit of big choppa nobz (10x19 points now) and a kff mek wearing the red armor inside. Tellyport in, use ramming stratagem, charge re-rollable 3d6+1, cause mortal wounds for bone krusha, cause mortal wounds for ramming, cause mortal wounds for red armor, do 6+1d6 S9 AP-2 D2 attacks, do another S7 AP-1 D2 attacks.
On average, this causes your opponent to want to see your codex.

So 190+140 or so? Hopefully you have something to clear chaff first as otherwise that is spent on chaff and then you are hoping like hell he doesn't manage to surround and take down 330 pts in one go and battlewagon is pretty soft target to boot.

Gorkanaut meanwhile will cause ramming MW's(can it get the red armour btw?) and hit 18 S8 -2 D2 attacks(or 6 S16 -4 Dd6 if you face tough target) for about same price. Oh and bit of chaff clearing shooting.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:


You couldn't get 3+ unless you bought "ard Boyz" with CP which is stupidly over priced and then used the loot strategy to get +1 armor for a destroyed vehicle and then the +1 for cover but only if they are 18' from enemy units.....The biggest benefit would have been to Kommandos who are 9ppm (maybe less now) who would have been 4+. But because of the wording its useless

Orks have reasonable access to CP though.

Lootas are on a 4+ stock, so 3+ with Blood Axes and 2+ with Ard Boyz. They want to be out of 18" anyway. Stick KMKs near them and when they blow stack to them 1+ (essentially). Drag two full units, mob them up, and then use More Dakka. Madness.

Has anyone seen cost on Lootas or if the gun is the same?

According to GMG, lootas remain unchanged, statline and points.

Lootas are completely unchanged.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Lootas are completely unchanged.

"

AWESOME!!!!!!!!!! You know what that means? Completely unfething usable still. FFS GW unfeth yourselves.

 Jidmah wrote:


There also is a boarding plank stratagem which allows all passengers to make one melee attack from inside trukks or battlewagons.

That is friggin awesome.

Silly combo land:
Evil suns Bonekrusha with a unit of big choppa nobz (10x19 points now) and a kff mek wearing the red armor inside. Tellyport in, use ramming stratagem, charge re-rollable 3d6+1, cause mortal wounds for bone krusha, cause mortal wounds for ramming, cause mortal wounds for red armor, do 6+1d6 S9 AP-2 D2 attacks, do another S7 AP-1 D2 attacks.
On average, this causes your opponent to want to see your codex.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Lootas are completely unchanged.

Oh dear oh dear oh dear...

It's more and more clear there's no passionate ork player in the rule teams. Only interest has gone for the new buggies and even those rules aren't spectacular.

SemperMortis wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Lootas are completely unchanged.

"

AWESOME!!!!!!!!!! You know what that means? Completely unfething usable still. FFS GW unfeth yourselves.

I meant it when I said they were reasonable for their cost. And there's lots to boost them now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Silly combo land:
Evil suns Bonekrusha with a unit of big choppa nobz (10x19 points now) and a kff mek wearing the red armor inside. Tellyport in, use ramming stratagem, charge re-rollable 3d6+1, cause mortal wounds for bone krusha, cause mortal wounds for ramming, cause mortal wounds for red armor, do 6+1d6 S9 AP-2 D2 attacks, do another S7 AP-1 D2 attacks.
On average, this causes your opponent to want to see your codex.

So 190+140 or so? Hopefully you have something to clear chaff first as otherwise that is spent on chaff and then you are hoping like hell he doesn't manage to surround and take down 330 pts in one go and battlewagon is pretty soft target to boot.

Gorkanaut meanwhile will cause ramming MW's(can it get the red armour btw?) and hit 18 S8 -2 D2 attacks(or 6 S16 -4 Dd6 if you face tough target) for about same price. Oh and bit of chaff clearing shooting.

Somethat that can surround a BW isn't going to find it soft, usually.

tneva82 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Silly combo land:
Evil suns Bonekrusha with a unit of big choppa nobz (10x19 points now) and a kff mek wearing the red armor inside. Tellyport in, use ramming stratagem, charge re-rollable 3d6+1, cause mortal wounds for bone krusha, cause mortal wounds for ramming, cause mortal wounds for red armor, do 6+1d6 S9 AP-2 D2 attacks, do another S7 AP-1 D2 attacks.
On average, this causes your opponent to want to see your codex.

So 190+140 or so? Hopefully you have something to clear chaff first as otherwise that is spent on chaff and then you are hoping like hell he doesn't manage to surround and take down 330 pts in one go and battlewagon is pretty soft target to boot.

Gorkanaut meanwhile will cause ramming MW's(can it get the red armour btw?) and hit 18 S8 -2 D2 attacks(or 6 S16 -4 Dd6 if you face tough target) for about same price. Oh and bit of chaff clearing shooting.

What kind of unit is supposed to survive that charge and then surround a battlewagon so you can't disembark 10 models?

How is the gorkanaut a harder target compared to a battlewagon? Because of +1 armor does jack against anti-tank weapons?

How are 18 S8 attacks hitting on 3s (8 damage against T8/3+) better than 9.5 S9 attacks hitting on 2s and d3 mortal wounds (9 damage against T8/3+)? Oh, and that's before you even add in the nobz. So 139 points bonekrusha > gorkanaut on the charge, for half the points. Put flash gits inside instead of nobz and you'll have superior chaff clearing on top of that.

You are really going out of the way to be negative in every single post. I'll put you back on ignore, your post aren't worth reading anymore.
No one needs blind negativity just for negativity's sake.

Photos of the points pages were just leaked on FB.

 Jidmah wrote:

What kind of unit is supposed to survive that charge and then surround a battlewagon so you can't disembark 10 models?

Opponent has only 1 unit in his army? Well guess if you are aimint to play vs warhound titan...Of course then neither unit is going to be doing much but then again you shouldn't waste time anyway to kill it as you win anyway so trying to kill it just means your victory takes more time than required so you are wasting everybody's time rolling dice.

How is the gorkanaut a harder target compared to a battlewagon? Because of +1 armor does jack against anti-tank weapons?

It's not but it punches harder for less CP usage for starters. More wounds than battlewagon and with all the inv saves actually AT concentrates less on AP and more on other factors. -2 is sweet spot because 3+ with -2 is 5+ which is funnily enough your typical inv save.

How are 18 S8 attacks hitting on 3s (8 damage against T8/3+) better than 9.5 S9 attacks hitting on 2s and d3 mortal wounds (9 damage against T8/3+)? Oh, and that's before you even add in the nobz. So 139 points bonekrusha > gorkanaut on the charge, for half the points. Put flash gits inside instead of nobz and you'll have superior chaff clearing on top of that.

Gorkanaut will be having mortal wounds as well so there's that. Also you forgot 18 shots, rokkits etc from gorkanaut. Oh and 18 attacks that hits 3+ hits more than 9 attacks that hit 2+. Average hit amount alone causes more than the battlewagon has attacks. But yeah I'm sure you get more than 12 hits with 9 attacks somehow

tneva82 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

What kind of unit is supposed to survive that charge and then surround a battlewagon so you can't disembark 10 models?

Opponent has only 1 unit in his army? Well guess if you are aimint to play vs warhound titan...

Ah, thanks for confirming that you have no clue what you are talking about.

It's not but it punches harder for less CP usage for starters. More wounds than battlewagon and with all the inv saves actually AT concentrates less on AP and more on other factors. -2 is sweet spot because 3+ with -2 is 5+ which is funnily enough your typical inv save.

Wow, almost every single think in that statement is wrong.
Less negativity, more fact checking.

Gorkanaut will be having mortal wounds as well so there's that. Also you forgot 18 shots, rokkits etc from gorkanaut. Oh and 18 attacks that hits 3+ hits more than 9 attacks that hit 2+. Average hit amount alone causes more than the battlewagon has attacks. But yeah I'm sure you get more than 12 hits with 9 attacks somehow

You must have forgotten that the inbuilt mortal wounds cause damage. And that S8 doesn't wound T8 on 3+.

Do you really think you should continue to talk about this when you can't even get the contents of the battle primer right?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Photos of the points pages were just leaked on FB.

link please?

geargutz wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Photos of the points pages were just leaked on FB.

link please?

https://scontent.fybz1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44852285_10156859159387311_3987872895203278848_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent.fybz1-1.fna&oh=f72f0cd7ca4e63410101522491688d9c&oe=5C53D3F3
https://scontent.fybz1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/43695477_10156859261257311_3114490397913513984_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent.fybz1-1.fna&oh=8b12d1ceffa7d35882ea2b6cc5496651&oe=5C4BEB3E

So for the nobz in boyz squads and the like, do I use the points value for a nob, or does he cost as much as a boy?
Also, are tank busta's 5 ppm? That doesn't sound right, but that's what it looks like on the page.

assuming no change from index price of boy.

Is there no option for just a big mek? I have a big mek model with KFF, but he's not in mega armor. Seems a bit arbitrary to specify SAG or mega armor.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Is there no option for just a big mek? I have a big mek model with KFF, but he's not in mega armor. Seems a bit arbitrary to specify SAG or mega armor.

Tankbustas would be five...if they forgot their rokkit. No change at 17 total.

The KFF mek is deleted. Bye bye, model! GW decides you need to be re-purchased.

(Alternatively, just plasticard him and beef him up to 2+).

 JimOnMars wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Is there no option for just a big mek? I have a big mek model with KFF, but he's not in mega armor. Seems a bit arbitrary to specify SAG or mega armor.

Tankbustas would be five...if they forgot their rokkit. No change at 17 total.

The KFF mek is deleted. Bye bye, model! GW decides you need to be re-purchased.

(Alternatively, just plasticard him and beef him up to 2+).

Or just play the index option...

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Is there no option for just a big mek? I have a big mek model with KFF, but he's not in mega armor. Seems a bit arbitrary to specify SAG or mega armor.

Index is unchanged except possibly wargear price changes in codex that will apply.

so our handful of good units actually got hit with the nerf bat......wtf?

INDEX/CODEX:

KMK: 42/60 increase in price of 42%
Boyz: 6/7 increase in price of 16.6%
warboss: 66/72 9% increase
Stormboyz: 8/9
Believe it or not, Flashgitz WENT UP in price....because going from expensive and useless to even more expensive will somehow make them less useless?

And that isn't even talking about things that should have gotten significant points drops that either didn't or got minor changes instead.

I am quickly losing faith in this codex and GW in general.

SemperMortis wrote:
so our handful of good units actually got hit with the nerf bat......wtf?

INDEX/CODEX:

KMK: 42/60 increase in price of 42%
Boyz: 6/7 increase in price of 16.6%
warboss: 66/72 9% increase
Stormboyz: 8/9
Believe it or not, Flashgitz WENT UP in price....because going from expensive and useless to even more expensive will somehow make them less useless?

And that isn't even talking about things that should have gotten significant points drops that either didn't or got minor changes instead.

I am quickly losing faith in this codex and GW in general.

Problem with those good(not that they were even really good but less sucky than others) is that they were being bought and used which means GW wants to change things. Cynical view on that is GW does it to sell other units. Bit less cynical view is that they equate being used=broken so even if unit isn't good but it's least bad option means it needs to be nerfed because it is being used which means it's broken so hit the nef bat!

So glad I got cold shivers weeks ago and decided rather than more orks start a new game in form of AT. At least I have now one balanced game to enjoy with and I don't have desperate need for new ork models anyway.

SemperMortis wrote:
so our handful of good units actually got hit with the nerf bat......wtf?

INDEX/CODEX:

KMK: 42/60 increase in price of 42%
Boyz: 6/7 increase in price of 16.6%
warboss: 66/72 9% increase
Stormboyz: 8/9
Believe it or not, Flashgitz WENT UP in price....because going from expensive and useless to even more expensive will somehow make them less useless?

from leaks/rumors
i heard flashgit wpn got more deadly and also the have a 4+ now (FINALLY)
kmk does d6 dmg instead of d3 (on a good round of shooting these will outright wreck armor), also the base of the mnek gun no longer has to pay for crew (they are free)
stormboys can now deepstrike

though boyz/warboss still doenst make much sense to me as to why they are more expensive.

not saying the prices are or worth it (not till after i test them out) but this could explain why some of that stuff was more pricey.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Not convinced any transport is worth deepstriking like that. Too easy to be surrounded, destroyed and lose whole squad. Gorkanaut seems safer bet with 8" charge

Melee battlwagon apparently has 6+D6 defrolla ttacks hitting on 2+ at S9 Ap-2 D2 and you can strategem it for a 3d6" charge and D3MW impact hits. Could be worth it, even empty?

Unlike a naught, wagon has no base, thus can fight with units on 2d floors which is a huge thing over a naught in mellee.