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 Mr Morden wrote:

Voss wrote:
Yeah, but this terrible federation obviously treats them like crap (per the first episode), so they do have a motive for rebelling.

Even if they _are_ covered by the ruling that protected Data (which isn't clear), they're still treated like garbage, because Sir Patrick Stewart must something something unto Evil Federation, because having a show based on idealism is heresy.

Must be watching a very different show.......or just ignoring that actual content

I think some people went into this show looking for things to dislike instead of things to like. and then have the chutzpa to complain the SHOW isn't optimistic eneugh

BrianDavion wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Voss wrote:
Yeah, but this terrible federation obviously treats them like crap (per the first episode), so they do have a motive for rebelling.

Even if they _are_ covered by the ruling that protected Data (which isn't clear), they're still treated like garbage, because Sir Patrick Stewart must something something unto Evil Federation, because having a show based on idealism is heresy.

Must be watching a very different show.......or just ignoring that actual content

I think some people went into this show looking for things to dislike instead of things to like. and then have the chutzpa to complain the SHOW isn't optimistic eneugh

yeah I don't get it as recent episodes have been very big on nostalga, doing the right thing and making a better future.

 Mr Morden wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Voss wrote:
Yeah, but this terrible federation obviously treats them like crap (per the first episode), so they do have a motive for rebelling.

Even if they _are_ covered by the ruling that protected Data (which isn't clear), they're still treated like garbage, because Sir Patrick Stewart must something something unto Evil Federation, because having a show based on idealism is heresy.

Must be watching a very different show.......or just ignoring that actual content

I think some people went into this show looking for things to dislike instead of things to like. and then have the chutzpa to complain the SHOW isn't optimistic eneugh

yeah I don't get it as recent episodes have been very big on nostalga, doing the right thing and making a better future.

yes but they're upset that starfleet has less then perfect leadership. ignoring all the donkey-cave admirals from every other series. and the "major character deaths" (I'm sorry but Icheb and Hugh are not major characters by any stretch of the imagination) etc

I think the difference is that (barring some parts of DS9) most of the bad Federation leaders in the past were generally dealt with in a single episode that ended on a positive "we solved this problem and overcame it" note.

This series has instead pounded some of the negative aspects far more so in a repeat fashion without a major "saving the wold" moment." Of course that's because we are getting a bigger story told in greater depth than they could ever achieve with a single 40min episode.

The problem some people could have could be what I read earlier (either here or elsewhere): while Star Trek has often been used to address issues within our society at the time, it often did so by using an alien race to embody those issues, with the Federation being the shining example of how to overcome those issues. Star Trek rarely ever used the Federation to embody those issues, and while it has done so in the past, it often did so in a way that was quickly resolved, or limited to the actions of a few, rather than the way Picard is handling it today by showing an ongoing, nearly systemic problem.

I'm still not convinced.

Ultimately, it sort of comes down to the problems with the Federation can be blamed on, "The Head of Starfleet Security is a power mad jerk."

Which is something we've seen before.

 Compel wrote:
I'm still not convinced.

Ultimately, it sort of comes down to the problems with the Federation can be blamed on, "The Head of Starfleet Security is a power mad jerk."

Which is something we've seen before.

They’re not even a power mad jerk, they’re an alien Infiltrator. And the earlier obstinate admiral, when given proof of Picard’s outrageous claims, was then (seemingly) quite willing to send a Fleet to his aid. The series is playing out like an episode, just with a lot more detail and run time. It ain’t no slice of life episodic series.

 AduroT wrote:

 Compel wrote:
I'm still not convinced.

Ultimately, it sort of comes down to the problems with the Federation can be blamed on, "The Head of Starfleet Security is a power mad jerk."

Which is something we've seen before.

They’re not even a power mad jerk, they’re an alien Infiltrator. And the earlier obstinate admiral, when given proof of Picard’s outrageous claims, was then (seemingly) quite willing to send a Fleet to his aid. The series is playing out like an episode, just with a lot more detail and run time. It ain’t no slice of life episodic series.

I'd be suprised if the season did end with Oh's arrest and a positive sign of starfleet and the federation returning to normal

Aren't they already guaranteed a second series? If they've planned it for several series then I'd agree it won't all end on a happy note. It might even end on a huge cliffhanger.

I’m going to go with the season ends with Starfleet “cleaned up” (I mean, in at least until they need a new corruption hook), and a new big Bad is introduced to be the foil for next season.

I don't think they'll even clean up Starfleet. I'd wager they might even split starfleet into competing factions/subgroups. You don't get to head of Security alone and without allies within the system - even if she's the only traitor/spy that high in the network she'll have regular "not spy" people who owe her favours/are under her thumb etc...

 Overread wrote:
Aren't they already guaranteed a second series? If they've planned it for several series then I'd agree it won't all end on a happy note. It might even end on a huge cliffhanger.

it could, but most likely as this is a season end they'll give Picard and crew a win and at the same time set it up. I could even see Picard being fetted as a hero, being offered a chance at regaining his comission and Picard turning it down because he wants to keep following this lead and can't risk "being tied to a orginization that could once more be subverted"

Would you like every question answered? If so this is the episode for you. Also...

 AduroT wrote:
Would you like every question answered? If so this is the episode for you. Also...

Spoiler:

The Romulans might have actually had the right idea...

I dunno about that

Episode 9 was pretty cool. Pleased to see the same settler aesthetic carried over from TNG.

Wonder what’s gonna happen next week?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Episode 9 was pretty cool. Pleased to see the same settler aesthetic carried over from TNG.

Wonder what’s gonna happen next week?

Borg ex machina, also the Starfleet cavalry shows up. Romulans get obliterated. Introduce new big bad as season finale cliffhanger, likely Worfing the Starfleet fleet in the process.

So Episode 9 - Borg Cube to the rescue - didn't quite work! Though it means there's synthetic and organic and half way between the two in one engagement area. Who knows what this other synthetic force might think about that.


Of course there's also the fact that this warning was placed on that world long ago. It could be that supreme synthetic life force fell between then and the now - meaning that all their eggs in the basket of rescue might backfire.

 AduroT wrote:
Would you like every question answered? If so this is the episode for you. Also...

Spoiler:

The Romulans might have actually had the right idea...

Ah, is it the Dragon Age problem?

Actually based on how this message, even second and then third hand (though mind links) has caused quite swift and extreme shifts in populations I do wonder if its more complex.

I could see it being a "test" that the message and warning is designed to put synthetic and "normal" life against each other to test their resolve - either a some twisted means to find out the superior option; or perhaps to test their bond between them. With the theory that if they fall into war they destroy each other or one group at least destroys the other (bringing about the destruction in the warning); or if they overcome it they emerge a far stronger united front.

So, it's one hundred percent gone Mass Effect, with Soji's people in the role of the Geth and Soji as Legion.

I'm guessing it'll follow a similar format, The Reapers arrive, part of Soji's people stay with Picard (and Soji), and part of them become the Heretics allied with The Reapers.

I have Faith Picard will have a better ending

BrianDavion wrote:
I have Faith Picard will have a better ending

I have faith he gets to make a speech that works! I'm really feeling sorry for him every time he's had an epic moment he's been deflected, ignored, shut down or arrested. Although at least the last one he gave had enough resounding impact for him to be arrested instead of told to be quiet. So he's getting better, just a few more practices!

I'm impressed that the scriptwriters managed to come up with a a plot that changed my opinion from "we need to save all the not-Datas from the evil nasty baddies", to "yeah, looks like the Romulans are right about this" in less than 30 seconds.

Several episodes of build up in one direction, followed by a swift 180.

Also, how come the Borg have just been a bunch of chumps since First Contact?

Voyager had cubes being blown up left right and centre, the Romulans can space a cube full of drones with the push of a button (like that's a big deal to Borg drones?!) and now they get taken down by some overgrown Mother's Day presents?

The Borg need to get back to kicking bottoms and assimilating names.

Going loooooooong with this one. Like, a Hail Mary, Jospeh, Jesus, Abraham, Adam and Eve....

Is this all just in Picard’s mind?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Going loooooooong with this one. Like, a Hail Mary, Jospeh, Jesus, Abraham, Adam and Eve....

Is this all just in Picard’s mind?

That would be dumb. Like, I didn’t hate the Discovery ending where Riker was watching a holodeck recording despite how panned that was, because it was still events that happened, but if it was all just a fever dream, no.

 Chillreaper wrote:
I'm impressed that the scriptwriters managed to come up with a a plot that changed my opinion from "we need to save all the not-Datas from the evil nasty baddies", to "yeah, looks like the Romulans are right about this" in less than 30 seconds.

Several episodes of build up in one direction, followed by a swift 180.

Also, how come the Borg have just been a bunch of chumps since First Contact?

Voyager had cubes being blown up left right and centre, the Romulans can space a cube full of drones with the push of a button (like that's a big deal to Borg drones?!) and now they get taken down by some overgrown Mother's Day presents?

The Borg need to get back to kicking bottoms and assimilating names.

At least in this instance it was a heavily damaged / dismantled cube, disconnected from the collective and being run by a skeleton crew of ex-Borg; not exactly surprising it wouldn’t be hugely effective (although I am thoroughly expecting it to be kicking Romulan ass next week!)

Yep!

Normally, having a cube crash on your planet would be super bad news for you, no matter what state it was in. Just give it a bit of time and it's back in action and the planet is doomed. Mind you, with Queen Seven in charge, they might be a fair bit more relaxed about things.

Eh the Cube is broken and the Borg commanding it are still very lost. They are actually a lot like the Synthetics in that right now the majority of them are drifting along with only one or two leading and pushing for changes. The Borg very much so, they are trapped between two worlds.

Their Borg side which is severed and clearly there isn't enough will in the local collective to restore their original function; whilst the former living side is still coming to terms with massive trauma - remembering that even those assimilated most recently are still suffering; whilst those who were within the collective far longer might have little to no past to restore from.


Plus unlike Picard and Seven, they are surrounded by mostly each other and the Romulans didn't look to be the most friendly of welcomes to getting people back on the path to being alive and individual.

Kinda glad they didn’t cop out an throw in a ‘Data isn’t ded’ thing.

They could still do it - technically the back-up Data might still have Data's original memories and thoughts - even though it was established that it broke down there could still be some means to restoring him.

That said I sort of hope the don't as well.