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Why did the changling have a bucket? That was a uniquely Odo thing, that even he stopped using we time went on. Heck, it even looked like his bucket.

Also the new changling goo (man they loved that word) form’s updated effects are weird. Instead of the classic glowing slime it’s a weird kind of melted flesh appearance. Far more disconcerting.

It might be separation anxiety from the Great Link causing them to lean toward things like a bucket or container as some kind of comfort or ability to relax more fully when in liquid form. Remember Odo suffered from that and he was only part of the Great Link for very short periods of time; many of these changlings have likely been part of the Great Link for vast amounts of time and even when they left it would likely have been only for short moments not extended periods.


I did wonder if the last one we saw was spending too long in solid form and that was tainting the appearance. Though they aren't pushing as hard as Odo at times, then you could see his body starting to peel and flake

Yeah, they said the first one that was being interrogated had been solid too long, and was causing their withdrawal like symptoms. I think the only time we saw Odo go flakey croissant was when they used the device that outright prevented him from going liquid.

Odo using the bucket was because as a lab sample he was always kept in a container and raised that way so it was what he was used to and thought to be polite, keeping himself contained when he lived in his office. It was later when he met the other changling from the Great Link that they told him nah man, just goo all over the floor, it’s way more relaxing. Then he got his own room and and decorations and did precisely that and used his bucket as a flower pot.

I’m guessing the bucket was just a sensible hiding spot for the times nobody knew a Changeling was aboard and it had to regenerate.

)

Still good.

So they barely have energy for the life support but running a holodeck is ok?

It’s got a totally different, independent power supply! They couldn't use it if their lives depended on it! Far better to be surrounded by pretty decor while you suffocate.

To be fair I can accept a starship having subsystems that have their own dedicated power system that isn't compatible with other subsystems.

Heck this mirrors reality
Many electronic gadgets we use have dedicated power systems (batteries/PSUs) which are not designed to be adaptable to other machines. Even if you can do basic fixing of the core machine; its a whole other skill set to transfer the power.


Now you can argue that a spaceship should probably be designed with more redundancies so that the emergency holodeck power can be used for life support; However considering how we are seeing more and more use of hollo doctors and EMTs and such in the setting it might not be out of the question that there's a design choice to keep the holo system alive and functional in order to preserve those systems and not allow them to be used by other systems .


Heck it could even just be that the holo system is like an upgrade/addon pack for the ship with a dedicated self-contained system so that it can just be slapped into any ship easily

Also, Starfleet Holodeck stuff can be used for in-person simulation, without risk of injury. So as well as EMH, ECH etc, you can trial run solutions.

Not to mention a Holodeck can be…anything. Like a backup medical facility?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually now I think about it, that’s something I’m surprised they’ve not included more of.

We know most Federation Starships have excess space, so they can be easily adapted to different missions, take on refugees and so on.

Why not have a literal Holodeck Deck. Completely blank slate, able to become whatever you need in the blink of an eye, provided it’s programmed in?

For a long time I feel like the concept of holodecks and holotech is in a really strange place in ST. Because in theory you can just holo up anything. Picard even shoots Borg in one film with the safety turned off. Why not just holo the entire ship as a self defence system; why not all holo crew etc.....

I feel like its kind of a bit that the writers know they can use, but don't want to lean too far into it because they know it would basically invalidate the whole show
Though the in-world argument is likely similar to issues with androids in that people don't trust it as much etc....

It’s also a constant power drain. So a semi-permanent Holo-Office, where it’s just desks and chairs isn’t great.

But. Put holoemitters in your corridors. Nothing fancy. Just enough to project barriers. As you and yours defend your position, you can turn them on to provide cover in an otherwise empty space. And if you need to fall back? Just…turn them off, denying your opponent the same.

And if things are going really Pete Tong, generate walls alongside the usual force fields, so not only can your opponent not follow, but won’t be able to see where you went.

Am…..am I too naughty for Starfleet?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not the whole ship though, countermeasures can be invented to disrupt and nobody wants that. But build it into your defence options, and you’re laughing.

This will end with us finding out that Kang was behind it all and that Star Trek is now part of the MCU.

I'm kinda sad Eaglemoss went under. I could have gone for a Titan XL.

Kang is ded. He fell in honourable battle agains the Albino.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s also a constant power drain. So a semi-permanent Holo-Office, where it’s just desks and chairs isn’t great.

But. Put holoemitters in your corridors. Nothing fancy. Just enough to project barriers. As you and yours defend your position, you can turn them on to provide cover in an otherwise empty space. And if you need to fall back? Just…turn them off, denying your opponent the same.

And if things are going really Pete Tong, generate walls alongside the usual force fields, so not only can your opponent not follow, but won’t be able to see where you went.

Am…..am I too naughty for Starfleet?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not the whole ship though, countermeasures can be invented to disrupt and nobody wants that. But build it into your defence options, and you’re laughing.

Thinking about the tech, boarding actions should be an absolute nightmare.

I mean your little Type 2 phasers are powerful enough to vaporise just about anything, have those things dotted down every corridor and everyone that you don't like just goes away.

Flooding corridors with tetryon particles (or whatever), to take out boarding parties shouldn't be some last ditch, genius plan by your sole surviving character; it should be standard design specs on every starship.

Those holo barricades in the hallways? Don’t make them disappear right away when you flee. Leave some for the enemy to take cover behind. Then have them suddenly vanish and reappear behind the enemy leaving them with no cover and nowhere to flee.

I forget the details, but we know holodecks can be quite large as there was the episode of Voyager where the not-Predators captured the ship and crew and were converting most of the interior into holodeck to use for hunting games.

 Chillreaper wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s also a constant power drain. So a semi-permanent Holo-Office, where it’s just desks and chairs isn’t great.

But. Put holoemitters in your corridors. Nothing fancy. Just enough to project barriers. As you and yours defend your position, you can turn them on to provide cover in an otherwise empty space. And if you need to fall back? Just…turn them off, denying your opponent the same.

And if things are going really Pete Tong, generate walls alongside the usual force fields, so not only can your opponent not follow, but won’t be able to see where you went.

Am…..am I too naughty for Starfleet?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not the whole ship though, countermeasures can be invented to disrupt and nobody wants that. But build
it into your defence options, and you’re laughing.

Thinking about the tech, boarding actions should be an absolute nightmare.

I mean your little Type 2 phasers are powerful enough to vaporise just about anything, have those things dotted down every corridor and everyone that you don't like just goes away.

Flooding corridors with tetryon particles (or whatever), to take out boarding parties shouldn't be some last ditch, genius plan by your sole surviving character; it should be standard design specs on every starship.

If they’re beaming over, your shields are down. Trap with forcefields, dust with Exotic Particles. Use those Exotic Particles to get your own lock on, beam the buggers off.

All these things are fun until the Borg or others hack your tech and use it against you.

 Mr Morden wrote:
All these things are fun until the Borg or others hack your tech and use it against you.

Couldn't you just blow the compartments that the drones are in and space them? I've heard that that's really effective...

 Mr Morden wrote:
All these things are fun until the Borg or others hack your tech and use it against you.

But all they’d get from me is a head full of mince, making it a net loss for the collective. Unless it wants to be oddly handy in a Pub Quiz.

I’ve won those single handed a few times.

 Chillreaper wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
All these things are fun until the Borg or others hack your tech and use it against you.

Couldn't you just blow the compartments that the drones are in and space them? I've heard that that's really effective...

Does it work on holographic drones?

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Chillreaper wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
All these things are fun until the Borg or others hack your tech and use it against you.

Couldn't you just blow the compartments that the drones are in and space them? I've heard that that's really effective...

Does it work on holographic drones?

Are these holographic drones on a holographic starship or a real one?

 Chillreaper wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Chillreaper wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
All these things are fun until the Borg or others hack your tech and use it against you.

Couldn't you just blow the compartments that the drones are in and space them? I've heard that that's really effective...

Does it work on holographic drones?

Are these holographic drones on a holographic starship or a real one?

Both/either?

 Overread wrote:
For a long time I feel like the concept of holodecks and holotech is in a really strange place in ST. Because in theory you can just holo up anything. Picard even shoots Borg in one film with the safety turned off. Why not just holo the entire ship as a self defence system; why not all holo crew etc.....

For the same reason you don't have an all-robot crew or just a fully automated starship, machines are worse than living beings. Heck, Lower Decks even had the finale built around that concept where a trio of rogue AI ships that an admiral wanted to replace the lower echelon vessels with. One got a virus (sort of) and then all three tried to kill a starbase full of people.
The whole idea of AI being in Starfleet was one of Data's storylines throughout TNG as well.
What's also important to remember is that Starfleet isn't like a modern "navy". They don't have to worry about a lack of manpower or a spending budget because the Federation is hundreds of worlds strong and doesn't use money. Stuff just gets built and people get jobs or don't. People don't sign up for Starfleet because they need to pay for higher education or come from a background where it's their only option to get away from home, they can just do those things anyway.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Kang is ded. He fell in honourable battle agains the Albino.

That is what V'ger wants you to believe. Just as planned.

 Overread wrote:

Now you can argue that a spaceship should probably be designed with more redundancies so that the emergency holodeck power can be used for life support; However considering how we are seeing more and more use of hollo doctors and EMTs and such in the setting it might not be out of the question that there's a design choice to keep the holo system alive and functional in order to preserve those systems and not allow them to be used by other systems .

Yeah, this feels like a deliberate evolution following from Voyager's experiences, making sure that the Holodeck remains operational regardless of what else is going on.


As for 'Why not just make the whole ship a holodeck?' - did you people not see how often something went horribly wrong with the holodeck in previous shows? The Federation would have been taken over by 18th century literary characters before the Borg even got a look in.

You also probably don't want your entire ship to vanish when the power gets fethed. It's one of those 'sounds cool' applications of technology that in actuality makes basically no sense.

Oh I’m not advocating for entirely Holoships, for just those reasons.

But to have a literal Holodeck (so subdivided, otherwise empty rooms) so you can readily adapt to mission demands, without needing to carry desks, beds, labs whatever does seem to make sense to me. If memory serves, the Bridge Stations, at least on the Enterprise-D were multifunctional. Whilst yes there was a set layout in general use, tactical, science, navigation etc could be done from any. So that level of general backup and multiple redundancy appeals to The Federation.

As do Holoemitters in the halls in case you need to defend against boarders. Not just the previously mentioned barricades, but also projecting general obstacles on the floor. Stuff to catch feet and slow down general progress.

So I'm just gonna vent for a bit;

I've be rewatching TNG cause I do that and I'm at Jounrey's End in season seven.

And wow is this episode so much worse than I remember it being.

Beginning rant.

Okay, so people familiar with Star Trek probably know the series has a contentious history with depicting Native Americans. Yeah it's not great. Well-intentioned and probably progressive somewhat by the standards of when the episode was made, but stereotypes and hackneyed attempts at being culturally respectful don't work. Pretty eye-rolling now. The aesop it's aiming for also just doesn't work. Is it believably uncomfortable for Picard to be ordered to forcibly remove some native American colonists? Yes. Yes that's fair.

But god they've barely been there for a generation. The Cardassians had the planet claimed even before humans colonized it (and what I guess 'bad guys' just don't have the same rights as 'good guys'). The icing on this bad premise is that the resolution reduces much of the episode into a very sentimental idiot plot.

How was 'just leave them there to live with the consequences if that's what they really want' not an option that was originally on the table? Honstly had this been an option at the start it probably would have made for a better episode. An episode about the Federation's desire to do good and protect people, but you ultimately can't protect them from themselves. If they really want to stay who is Picard to remove them 'for their own good'? Focusing on that instead of the really groan-worthy 'remember the Trail of Tears? I member' plot the episode has would have made a much better episode. One that got the moral point and the aesop across without feeling so utterly self-serving.

The history of franchises makes this aesop even worse because by DS9 we know that not only do the actions of Picard here not even remotely prevent violence, but all these people basically die anyway. The Maquis become a terrorist organization. Tens of thousands die. If there's an actual aesop here, it's that reality doesn't change according to what we find comfortable and just because history and memory makes us uncomfortable doesn't mean we should let past sins dictate the present or the future.

Or else you end up feeling good in the moment, but blowing your brain out later. That's maybe a bit unfair to this episode though. It's kind of neat how this one really bad Star Trek episode basically created big parts of DS9 and Voyager without intending too. Clearly the writers of those later plots also ignored big parts of this episode though and I don't blame them. It's just a bad episode.

And then there's Weasley's story, where he is a rude little piece of spoiled gak, who basically does a complete 180 on 7 seasons worth of character development. With time, his depiction in this episode is even worse because he comes off like that spoiled college brat who discovered other cultures exist and goes way overboard on it. And dear god is he so punchable for it. Kid has one vision quest and suddenly decides he needs to change everything about his life cause daddy said it was okay. A more cynical person might consider the Taveler an extremely nefarious manipulator who takes complete advantage of Weasly in a time of personal crisis... No wonder they were villains in STO recently.

It compounds with the well-intentioned but still badly stereotypical depiction of native cultures too.

I'm usually in the 'people are too hard on Weasly camp' but on this episode, I'll agree. Weasly Crusher is a spoiled infant whining that life is hard.

It's a good thing no one talks about this episode. It's easily one TNG's worst.

/end rant

And now, as we expected would be the case, we have established that the entire fate of all Starfleet, the Federation, and likely the whole quadrant rests in the hands of Picard and their scrappy gang.

Also that’s… an interesting new design choice for the USS Intrepid.

 AduroT wrote:
It’s got a totally different, independent power supply! They couldn't use it if their lives depended on it! Far better to be surrounded by pretty decor while you suffocate.

Ya'll joking like this is new lore. The holodeck having its own power grid (complete with its own dedicated reactor!) that cannot possibly be rerouted to other ship subsystems comes from Voyager (season 1, episode 3 according to the wiki) which was a vital piece of lore to introduce as they needed to be able to continue having holodeck run-amuck episodes despite ostensibly having a limited supply of torpedoes, replicator rations, shuttles, and so on.