Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s also of minimal impact. They’re not a named, let alone main character.

Pretty sure they don’t even have any lines.

Indeed. While discussing the underlying narrative issues it is certainly is fair to point out this really isn't that big of a deal. I think it was a poor choice but it isn't some grand "line in the sand" sort of problem. I thought retconning the end of Jurassic Bark was a bad idea but it didn't keep me from enjoying Futurama overall.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Maybe Cheronite DNA was preserved in amber?

Cloned to bring them back as a symbol of redemption?

I like it.

Have Chat GPF fart out a manuscript and we can have the novel in bookstores for Juneteenth!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Moving on...

My local streamer Jiohotstar has SNW and Disco but not Picard for some reason, no sign of Starfleet Academy as of last night but I can check again. If it's good I may subscribe to Paramount for a WHOLE MONTH to see it.

It's funny I remember Peter David talking about Paramount wanting a Starfleet Academy show back in the 90s, how long as this bad idea been festering?

Meanwhile I've been enjoying Star Trek New Visions, a 2000s experiment by John Byrne (who also did some awesome Trek comics set around the Pike Era and TOS). It is a Star Trek Season 4 type thing using stills and photoshop to make new stories.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Trek:_New_Visions



It has all the usual limitations of photo comics, especially when you're trying to pour old wine into new bottles, but it is a fun experiment. Fun read if you find it cheap, Kindle has it cheap I think I got mine on Humble Bundle.

As I said in my review post? To me it does feel like SNW lessons have been learned.

I’m hesitant to declare it great at this early stage. But it’s definitely enjoyable. More over? We get some character development for everyone.

There is one Cadet I don’t care for, and of course just two episodes in I’m not going to claim we have deep characters. But, two episodes in? I am intrigued to see how they develop further,

In terms of Trek Consensus? If DS9 is peak, and Disco is Nadir? I’d put this above Picard, and not quite SNW. So far of course. Very early days, might go downhill, might take a confident start and climb higher.

It’s certainly not an instant stinky Jobby like Section 31, nor as irritatingly Michael Explains It All (na, na, nana!) as Disco.

I mean…they managed to make the floaty nacelles kind of a cool design. And I previously hated those.

So these are all ruperts in training? No enlisted?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
As I said in my review post? To me it does feel like SNW lessons have been learned.

I’m hesitant to declare it great at this early stage. But it’s definitely enjoyable. More over? We get some character development for everyone.

There is one Cadet I don’t care for, and of course just two episodes in I’m not going to claim we have deep characters. But, two episodes in? I am intrigued to see how they develop further,

In terms of Trek Consensus? If DS9 is peak, and Disco is Nadir? I’d put this above Picard, and not quite SNW. So far of course. Very early days, might go downhill, might take a confident start and climb higher.

It’s certainly not an instant stinky Jobby like Section 31, nor as irritatingly Michael Explains It All (na, na, nana!) as Disco.

I mean…they managed to make the floaty nacelles kind of a cool design. And I previously hated those.

I guess I'll wait a bit on this one, my main gripe is I absolutely don't care about Disco's 31st century and would like it to not exist. So I'm unsure whether the academy series could save that setting. If they'd given me an academy series during the forgotten century or in the golden era I'd be all over it, but 31st century? Pff.
SNW started off very strong in season 1 while its season 3 has been pretty bad outside of about 2 episodes, so we're about on Voyager season 1 level quality... (still above DS9 season 1 level, but not much ). Because of the decrease of SNW I'm now very hesitant to rank new Trek series from the start.

The_Real_Chris wrote:
So these are all ruperts in training? No enlisted?

Historically, enlisted didn't go through the Academy - there were separate technical schools for people like engineering crew. Star Fleet was always very top heavy, with way more officers and way less enlisted than modern navies, and the TV shows have always focused on the officers. Practically the only named enlisted characters I can think of are Chief Miles O'Brien and Yeoman Janice Rand.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
As I said in my review post? To me it does feel like SNW lessons have been learned.

I’m hesitant to declare it great at this early stage. But it’s definitely enjoyable. More over? We get some character development for everyone.

There is one Cadet I don’t care for, and of course just two episodes in I’m not going to claim we have deep characters. But, two episodes in? I am intrigued to see how they develop further,

In terms of Trek Consensus? If DS9 is peak, and Disco is Nadir? I’d put this above Picard, and not quite SNW. So far of course. Very early days, might go downhill, might take a confident start and climb higher.

It’s certainly not an instant stinky Jobby like Section 31, nor as irritatingly Michael Explains It All (na, na, nana!) as Disco.

I mean…they managed to make the floaty nacelles kind of a cool design. And I previously hated those.

I guess I'll wait a bit on this one, my main gripe is I absolutely don't care about Disco's 31st century and would like it to not exist. So I'm unsure whether the academy series could save that setting. If they'd given me an academy series during the forgotten century or in the golden era I'd be all over it, but 31st century? Pff.
SNW started off very strong in season 1 while its season 3 has been pretty bad outside of about 2 episodes, so we're about on Voyager season 1 level quality... (still above DS9 season 1 level, but not much ). Because of the decrease of SNW I'm now very hesitant to rank new Trek series from the start.

The premise is more than just Here Are Some Noobs Aren’t They Quirky. Whilst there is a High School High feel (I mean, it is an educational establishment), it’s also at a time when the Federation is getting itself back on its feet following The Burn.

OK, the Burn itself is silly (alien boy gets upset, therefore alll dilithium does an explode). But the whole putting the band back together is working for me so far.

Still 8 episodes for it to squander that good will of course. But for now? It’s got potential, and is threatening to realise that potential.

As ever, I’m genuinely interested to hear what other Dakkanauts made of it.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
As I said in my review post? To me it does feel like SNW lessons have been learned.

I’m hesitant to declare it great at this early stage. But it’s definitely enjoyable. More over? We get some character development for everyone.

There is one Cadet I don’t care for, and of course just two episodes in I’m not going to claim we have deep characters. But, two episodes in? I am intrigued to see how they develop further,

In terms of Trek Consensus? If DS9 is peak, and Disco is Nadir? I’d put this above Picard, and not quite SNW. So far of course. Very early days, might go downhill, might take a confident start and climb higher.

It’s certainly not an instant stinky Jobby like Section 31, nor as irritatingly Michael Explains It All (na, na, nana!) as Disco.

I mean…they managed to make the floaty nacelles kind of a cool design. And I previously hated those.

I guess I'll wait a bit on this one, my main gripe is I absolutely don't care about Disco's 31st century and would like it to not exist. So I'm unsure whether the academy series could save that setting. If they'd given me an academy series during the forgotten century or in the golden era I'd be all over it, but 31st century? Pff.
SNW started off very strong in season 1 while its season 3 has been pretty bad outside of about 2 episodes, so we're about on Voyager season 1 level quality... (still above DS9 season 1 level, but not much ). Because of the decrease of SNW I'm now very hesitant to rank new Trek series from the start.

The premise is more than just Here Are Some Noobs Aren’t They Quirky. Whilst there is a High School High feel (I mean, it is an educational establishment), it’s also at a time when the Federation is getting itself back on its feet following The Burn.

OK, the Burn itself is silly (alien boy gets upset, therefore alll dilithium does an explode). But the whole putting the band back together is working for me so far.

Still 8 episodes for it to squander that good will of course. But for now? It’s got potential, and is threatening to realise that potential.

As ever, I’m genuinely interested to hear what other Dakkanauts made of it.

It'll be about a Christmas '26 before I see it.
I'm not subscribing to P+. Not even for a month & then drop it. Instead I'll just wait for family to get me the DvD/BR for Christmas.

That's how I'll watch it too. The last good Star Treks have all been animated... but I'll give this one a chance... later on in the year.

The post-burn failed-federation setting upsets me on a visceral level. Not sure I can ever watch this.

So far we’ve had diplomatic talks to bring Betazed and its holdings back into the fold. Seems they used a psionic shield to be spared the worst of post-burn damage, and so are a significant group to add.

It seems like SFA is more directly aimed at women than what we've seen so far. A few thoughts on the first episode:

Holly Hunter is a quality actress and still looks good playing Captain Wine Aunt, a 400 year old kindergarten teacher offered dual captain/commandant roles at SFA and is the POV character for the 35+ women. She is shown to have a warm yet unflappable command style as she chillaxes (sp) on the bridge. Very different from past captains and an interesting take given the 400 years experience.

Daddy's Girl with the unfortunate eyebrows (why?) is the POV character for the younger women and has two bad boy Chads to fight over her. I suspect she'll get a Stacy rival at some point that is portrayed as a villain.

As you might expect, those crazy kids are so good they are able to save the whole ship before they even make it to the academy. Who needs instructors? I'm pretty sure the gooberish villain that those crazy kids outwit was the villain in other Star Trek episodes and I thought that was a nice touch.

It seemed like Picard was heavily influenced by Mass Effect. This time around they are cribbing from WALL-E with the cute little droids and all the overweight people.

All that said, this exceeded my low expectations and I'll probably watch at least a couple more episodes. The captain and a few of the cadets popped a bit, moreso than most of the Nu Trek attempts, and Robert Picardo is still a draw.

I'll also mention that the first episode is on Youtube, posted to the official channel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0sjDkoNgfY

I kind of bounced out after the first five minutes.

I just hate the entire massacre of the setting. Crapsackian inhumane post-apocalypse Star Trek is the dumbest idea and I can't bring myself to give a gak of a spinoff of Discovery that runs off the bat with Discovery's worst tendencies. Especially in this day and age when every show is a crapsack world filled with gakky people doing gakky things for the sole sack of manufactured drama, Star Trek's utpoianism would be refreshing but they just made Star Trek another crapsack setting and I just hate it.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So far we’ve had diplomatic talks to bring Betazed and its holdings back into the fold. Seems they used a psionic shield to be spared the worst of post-burn damage, and so are a significant group to add.

Hey bet they wished they used that against the Dominion

If they had the tech then

Next episode tomorrow. Hopefully it’ll continue to be fun, and not disappear up it’s own posterior.

Watched the first 2 episodes of Academy. I'm reserving judgement for now but it has potential. This Captain is one of the strangest Captains ever. I guess I'll give them points for going with a type of Captain we have never seen before. I guess she's going for a hippie-yogi vibe?

The first few episodes of Disco made it seem like it was going to be awesome too but then it wasn't. That being said I definitely think this show is going to be going for a lighter tone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LordofHats wrote:
I kind of bounced out after the first five minutes.

I just hate the entire massacre of the setting. Crapsackian inhumane post-apocalypse Star Trek is the dumbest idea and I can't bring myself to give a gak of a spinoff of Discovery that runs off the bat with Discovery's worst tendencies. Especially in this day and age when every show is a crapsack world filled with gakky people doing gakky things for the sole sack of manufactured drama, Star Trek's utpoianism would be refreshing but they just made Star Trek another crapsack setting and I just hate it.

Nah, its not like that. I actually find it has a pretty positive tone. There's issues with it, but dystopianism isn't one of them. I think the idea that a Democracy can fall on dark times and lose its way but still find a way to come back is theme that can be inspiring and relevant. This is the comeback story.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So far we’ve had diplomatic talks to bring Betazed and its holdings back into the fold. Seems they used a psionic shield to be spared the worst of post-burn damage, and so are a significant group to add.

Hey bet they wished they used that against the Dominion

If I recall correctly they do in the novellization from 25 years ago

Academy s3.

You know I said there’s an element of High School/College Drama?

This one features a prank war. And some Starship Troopersesque in-universe advert for the academy.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
It remains entertaining and genuinely enjoyable. And serves as a team bonding mission, with everyone bringing some skill or other to the table.

I do think this might not be for everyone, for the same reasons I can’t stand Lower Decks.

I mean, this isn’t Trek By The Numbers as such. But it is Trek at its heart, what with teamwork, unique skills and abilities etc.

But, like my disdain for Lower Decks? I think those who don’t enjoy it will be in a similar boat of “I can see why others like it, but it’s not for me”.

Started Starfleet Academy. I'm eyebrow cocked over the lore breaking alien bits, but not to the point of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Then I saw the paraplegic Cadet.


Picture if you will: the ship is in dire straights with heavy damage while trying to work a miracle engineering feat to regain power to overcome the hostile force of the episode. There's only one officer in the area who can possibly climb the vertical Jeffries tube to enact the miracle fix, and it's the paralyzed woman. The ship is now destroyed or worse.

There's a reason paralyzed people aren't recruited to serve on Navy vessels, and this principle should apply just as readily to Starfleet starships.

Don’t tell Melora Pazlar….

 Just Tony wrote:
Started Starfleet Academy. I'm eyebrow cocked over the lore breaking alien bits, but not to the point of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Then I saw the paraplegic Cadet.


Picture if you will: the ship is in dire straights with heavy damage while trying to work a miracle engineering feat to regain power to overcome the hostile force of the episode. There's only one officer in the area who can possibly climb the vertical Jeffries tube to enact the miracle fix, and it's the paralyzed woman. The ship is now destroyed or worse.

There's a reason paralyzed people aren't recruited to serve on Navy vessels, and this principle should apply just as readily to Starfleet starships.

Picture if you will, the ship in dire danger and your chief engineers VISOR broke.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Don’t tell Melora Pazlar….

Also this. Seriously. Star Trek is about infinite diversity in infinite combinations. That includes disabled people.

I'd also note that not everyone in Starfleet works on a starship. Even if Starfleet were concerned about someone's ability to operate in certain situations, that would limit where they could be posted, not necessarily whether or not there's work they could do. Melora Pazlar admittedly probably would never make it as a security officer, but stellar cartography isn't a job that demands physical ability in all situations.

Also, we know ships and bases can vary their artificial gravity, room by room. Just as they can vary the overall environmental and life support stuff.

If you’ve a paraplegic chief engineer? One assumes they’d have technological relief (exo suit or similar, which again we see with Melora) or presets so, when they’re doing some specialism? The environmental doohickys are more favourable.

Deja Vu of the discussion when WotC made a DnD mini, or might have just been a picture, of a character adventuring in a wheelchair.

 Ahtman wrote:
Deja Vu of the discussion when WotC made a DnD mini, or might have just been a picture, of a character adventuring in a wheelchair.

That sounds like how I always want to make a Centaur character just to do something different. Wheel chair character? Sure why not. Make him an artificer with a weaponized wheel chair! But then I think of the practical realities of ladders and stairs and there's always ladders and stairs and then what do I do? Like practically you're just Toph standing outside the library but gameplay wise that doesn't work very well. Never split the party.

 LordofHats wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
Deja Vu of the discussion when WotC made a DnD mini, or might have just been a picture, of a character adventuring in a wheelchair.

That sounds like how I always want to make a Centaur character just to do something different. Wheel chair character? Sure why not. Make him an artificer with a weaponized wheel chair! But then I think of the practical realities of ladders and stairs and there's always ladders and stairs and then what do I do? Like practically you're just Toph standing outside the library but gameplay wise that doesn't work very well. Never split the party.

Rope, a pulley, and a barbarian to pull on it.