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hvg3akaek wrote: I wonder what else we'll get. With "40+" commanders, we should be seeing ~2 or 3 each...could we get a cryptek, or a lord? Three different commanders for different styles of play?
How about a Lychguard? Wouldn't mind sword & board with INV saves. And right now Flayed Ones are inadequate for CC counterpunching.
Would love to see some Lychguard (or Praetorians to combat the Reivers / Harlies?) as standard "tougher" choices; but am hoping that they would be more numerous (and cheaper) than what the Commanders are looking at being.
Are flayed ones something I should look into getting?They're the one necron thing I don't have.
I've seen so many varying opinions on their usefulness, but most lists seem to sport at least one.
so it looks like the necron armies are getting messed around once again. Every Kill Teams team set so far has had a saving (some more significant than others), but our set seems to be the same price as purchasing the minis + the scenery separately...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/25 00:48:36
gaddok wrote: Are flayed ones something I should look into getting?They're the one necron thing I don't have.
I've seen so many varying opinions on their usefulness, but most lists seem to sport at least one.
They are the best unit Necrons have.
Necrons already have pitiful damage output, and Flayed Ones are the most efficient at it.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
gaddok wrote: Are flayed ones something I should look into getting?They're the one necron thing I don't have.
I've seen so many varying opinions on their usefulness, but most lists seem to sport at least one.
While I'm not enthusiastic about them you do need at least 1 CC specialist to counterpunch, or your ranged specialists will be tied up in melee for too long (if not taken OoA).
so it looks like the necron armies are getting messed around once again. Every Kill Teams team set so far has had a saving (some more significant than others), but our set seems to be the same price as purchasing the minis + the scenery separately...
Ah ha. And it's Wall of Martyrs terrain too. Not a fan. Will give it miss most likely.
Okay, now from a business stand point, I understand why GW is putting Wall of Martyrs in both the Tau & Necron KT boxes as opposed to Tau fortifications. So far the KT boxes tie into the Killzone, and Killzone: Tau Defense Line would not sell well enough for GW, whereas many Imperium players would buy Killzone:: Sector Wall of Martyrs. That's the business side and ultimately GW will make production decisions on that aspect. Fluffwise it bothers me slightly that Necrons and Tau are fighting Spec Ops actions in Imperial-themed terrain as opposed to their own. Not possible for Necrons at this time unless you use 3rd party terrain, but Tau have their own fortifications. And from a Necron POV, I'd rather our Tomb Worlds were awakening beneath Tau septs as opposed to Tau Pathfinder teams sabotaging Tomb Worlds.
Deathless Ire looks fun (and hilarious: the idea of a Necron just being so ANGRY they've been shot they can't even return fire is great) and very nice to use on a model that has already fired or attacked. Seeing as the first Injury often only has a 1/6 chance of OOA this can potentially extend the life of a key model considerably.
Superior Inheritance, though, looks GREAT. Our standard weapons (Gauss Blaster especially) are really solid against regular troops, so stack this with another ability (comms or Targeting Routines) to really dish out some damage. And only 1 cp! An absolute bargain. Its like having another immortal on the table positioned right by your best shooter!
Fair enough (circling might have helped a bit more )
It's crazy what they seem to think - especially when talking about how it might be better to take more of them than a smaller number of far more efficient immortals...
FAQ went up for Kill Team. Main changes for Necrons:
1) Tesla procs on an unmodified 6 to hit, making it not entirely useless but probably still worse than Gauss
2) Yes, you have to take the highest Injury roll, so multidamage is good for us
Some other clarifications in rules and stuff but it helps a bit.
Requizen wrote: 1) Tesla procs on an unmodified 6 to hit, making it not entirely useless but probably still worse than Gauss.
Interestingly, by my initial mathhammering, it looks like (without cover penalties) the gauss v tesla is equal, though tesla excels at long range, and gauss at 1/2 range. No surprises there.
Once you throw in some cover, though, or other penalties (eg flesh wounds), tesla seem far more favourable - even against solid armoured foes. At least, whilst distance remains. At short range, they end up being roughly equal.
Next friday im going to give the necrons a last try with the new stratagem.
5x Immortals with Gauss (one is the leader, one the comms, one the sniper)
2x Flayed ones (one is zealot or combat spec.)
If this wont do im going to drop my necron KT as after some games its just no fun. Im still going to be a silent reader in this forum to see if people have come up with something im missing
First 3 player game last night, Necrons pulled off the win by virtue of not dying Both other teams were suffering from Shaken and Broken in the last couple of turns. Fairly standard loadout of 3 Immortals, 2 Deathmarks, 2 Flayed Ones. Flayed Ones (the Zealot especially) were amazing this game, pretty much the first time they've made a proper big impact.
Several times wished I had the new tactics, the tireless advance on in particular looks AMAZING, pretty much exactly what we needed. And for only 1CP! When we get onto a campaign I'm absolutely going to be levelling up a Comms Immortal to farm those CPs.
We had a three-way game last night - necron v tau v space marines. I don't like these multiple-player games, as in our meta, my friends always decide i'm the biggest threat, and take me out first.
So the tau decimated my necrons on round 1, and I never recovered. SM found the relic, and held it strongly enough that by the end of the game (round 4), they still easily held it.
So i had the one game against my friend
he took his admech
5x Immortals (2x Tesla on Leader and coms, one vet)
2x FOs (1 combat)
First game endet in 5mins in a loss for me...
He did all his charges with his ruststalkers and killed the „tuff“ immortals, RP never came into play.
The dice god being funny made me fail morale on a 11 and so my team was shaken...I called it there and asked for a rematch as this was a joke of a game...
2nd game was closer.
I had some terrible luck with dice again (his plasma sniper and infiltrator leader had 3 flesh wounds each).
The terrain was better for me as he couldnt charge my coms and leader but still managed to kill my leader in shooting.
In the end i managed to win on points because the game went into 6th round and he decided to go for the objectives instead of for the kills with his leader (my vet had already 2flesh wounds). Two of his models got shaken and werent holding the obj. anymore.
Even though Ive won it wasnt really „fun“ for me
my specialist FO finally did something (killed something) but got destroyed in his next round. I did spend the 2CP on the new tactic MWs on 6+ to wound.
the other flayed one did nothing and couldnt even kill a ranger...died the next round...
I like the new tactic to shoot twice or move and be ready to shoot.
Still...im dropping the necrons for KT...playing them feels so unrewarding...the SLIGHTEST mistake will cost you the game and it just feels like an uphill battle. You pray everytime you make a save roll. FOs get kited...a 10points model...Immortals may be good but not 16points good...I was quite mad about this and kinda feel a little bit stupid why it got into my head so much but it is just really „no fun“. 2shots max wont cut it...plus for most of the time you hit on 4s. If you stayed stationary first round probably on 5s...with one shot each...I probably DID mistakes and stupid decisions but ill just repeat myself...it was just no fun
TL;DR
Necrons are no fun in KT, no customization plus high point cost but low dmg output and low survivability
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/06 19:26:55
So after 25 games of Killteam. 18 of which I won and 7 I lost or drew. I think I can make a good synopsis on our models and how we are as a Killteam.
We are pretty much an Elite style Killteam. Limited in KT size but we have good stats across the board. Our units are pretty much suited for nearly every situation and model. The new Stratagems that we got has given us a pretty good amount of power.
I think our Armies are better suited for Campaign style games rather than matched and open play for 3 reasons.
1) in the campaign you pick your Killteam after you pick mission. This gives you an advantage as you know what to bring for said mission and as you opponent nominates a models you can nominate a model to take that one down e.g. you see that they take a Gaunts, Gstealer etc so you take a warrior or Tesla immo etc
2) picking Specialist isn't as important due to Fire teams (read point 3). So, you can take a Tax Flayed One Leader and fill the rest of the points with a Necron fire team. Also, as the campaign goes on you can decide to add more points to your KT pool so while your models get expensive as the campaign goes on you can add more points to your pool to not feel as restricted.
3) thanks to the power of Fire teams, RP and terrain we are nearly unkillable. When your Fire team upgrades all your models in that fire team share that upgrade e.g. you have a fire team of 4 immos and 1 deathmark. As long as one 2 of those modles are in a game and/or killed an enemy model. every model in the fire team gain an EXP. When you roll to see what benefit you get. If you roll a 6 you get an -1 to your injury roll. What does that mean? Well. Put your models behind terrain because of your fire teams -1 and the terrains -1. On a 1-5 we take a flesh wound. On a 6 we get RP. We are pretty much unkillable during the 1st injury rolls for our fire team units.
There is also other upgrades like re-roll 1 to save rolls, wound rolls, hit rolls, add 1 to movement and charge/assault. With those buffs you basically don't need a Sniper deathmark as it's cheaper and better to go in a Fire team and multiple dmarks can benefit form it. Tesla also benefits. HUGELY.
basically. If your planning on playing us. Do it in a campaign where you have as much advanctage as possible. Matched and open played are jsut to random due to someone picking s bad mission to play or being s gun army vs speed and combat.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/09 22:02:11
Odrankt wrote: you have a fire team of 4 immos and 1 deathmark. .
This is not a fire team - this is two separate fire teams.
From the rulebook:
each fire team consists of all of the non-specialist models chosen from a single datasheet.
Thus, all non-specialist immortals are one fire team, all non-specialist deathmarks are one fire team, and all non-specialist flayed ones are a fire team. (and no one should take warriors, so let's ignore them )
But yes, that result of 6 would be nice - shame that it's only going to happen on the first roll one in six campaigns (unless you want to throw away a team and start the XP track again...)
Odrankt wrote: you have a fire team of 4 immos and 1 deathmark. .
This is not a fire team - this is two separate fire teams.
From the rulebook:
each fire team consists of all of the non-specialist models chosen from a single datasheet.
Thus, all non-specialist immortals are one fire team, all non-specialist deathmarks are one fire team, and all non-specialist flayed ones are a fire team. (and no one should take warriors, so let's ignore them )
But yes, that result of 6 would be nice - shame that it's only going to happen on the first roll one in six campaigns (unless you want to throw away a team and start the XP track again...)
All non-specialist are a Fire team. You can only have 1 fire team at a time which can be a mixture of any models. You only lose the fire team if you disembanted them or if the fire team dies.
Can you please quote rules that support any of these things?
Once again, the rulebook (page 204) says:
The non-specialist models in your collection are organised into fire teams
(note: plural on fire teams)
and:
each fire team consists of all of the non-specialist models chosen from a single datasheet
(note: single data-sheet. necrons have four data sheets, and thus could have up to 4 fire teams.)
(also, each fire team needs to be chosen from a single data sheet, thus it could not be made up of "a mix of any models")
hvg3akaek wrote: You have made three statements here that I believe are incorrect and are unsupported by what I have read, and what I have quoted above. They are:
Can you please quote rules that support any of these things?
Once again, the rulebook (page 204) says:
The non-specialist models in your collection are organised into fire teams
(note: plural on fire teams)
and:
each fire team consists of all of the non-specialist models chosen from a single datasheet
(note: single data-sheet. necrons have four data sheets, and thus could have up to 4 fire teams.)
(also, each fire team needs to be chosen from a single data sheet, thus it could not be made up of "a mix of any models")
...yes, that's the Designer's Commentary. Good find.
Nothing in there agrees with your points.
Everything in there on Fire Teams agrees with my previous points, and the quotes I've made from the main rules.
And, by simply posting a screen shot (really? A screen shot of a pdf?) without any context, it is not reflecting on your ability to read and understand rules. You may have played lots of games, but you've clearly misread / been mis-taught the campaign rules here. I suggest sitting down and carefully re-reading them with fresh eyes and no initial opinions.
In case you are still not convinced, let's go through every iteration of "fire team" from the director's commentary and see what it says...
The kill team can also include any number of models chosen from a datasheet for which you do not have a fire team (so, for example, if you only have an Intercessor fire team on your command roster, you could freely add Reivers to your kill team) – again, the only restrictions here are the normal limits for Battle-forged kill teams. Add these new models to your command roster.
This one clearly shows that the Intercessor fire team and the Reivers fire team are separate things. Adding models from a datasheet (Reivers) for which you do not have a fire team (only fire team is Intercessors) means you can freely add them, instead of the usual "match them up one-for-one with a member of the current fire team". This specifically contradicts your #1 and #3 claims.
This kill team can also include new models for existing fire teams, subject to the restrictions on adding new models to a fire team (see below).
Note again - "fire teams", plural. The Designer's Commentary assumes you can have multiple fire teams, contradicting your #1 claim.
(page 7)
Q: How do I add new models to a fire team during a campaign? A: When you choose a kill team for a mission, you can include one new member of a fire team (and add that model to your command roster) for each existing member of the fire team that you include in your kill team. So, if I wanted to add two new Reivers to an existing Reiver fire team, I would need to choose those two new Reivers to be in my kill team for the next mission, alongside at least two existing Reivers (other than Specialists) from my command roster. The two new Reivers would be New Recruits, as described in Adding Members to a Fire Team in the Kill Team Core Manual.
Once again, we have a specific example: "Revier Fire Team". Not "Space Marine Fire Team", made up of every datasheet in the Space Marine army. Just one, for one datasheet. If you want new members for it, you can add Reivers, as long as you have one-for-one Reivers from the current Fire Team pair up with them to show them the works. This goes against your #3 claim, and highly suggests that claim #1 and #2 are also at fault.
Q: If I disband a fire team, how do I later add models from that datasheet to my command roster? A: If you do not have a fire team for a datasheet (because you disbanded them, or they have all been killed, or you just haven’t chosen any yet) you can add any number of models from that datasheet to your command roster by including them in the kill team you choose for your next mission.
For this question, even the question itself shows that your claims are in error. It ties together the idea of a fire team and a specific datasheet - as does the answer. It is not a case of not having a fire team, but not having a fire team for a specific datasheet. Once again, as the core rules state, each fire team is tied to a specific datasheet. This contradicts all three of your claims.
Q: Can a fire team of a single model gain experience? A: Yes. A fire team of a single model gains 1 experience point after a mission if at least one enemy model was taken out of action during that mission by an attack made or psychic power manifested by that model (or another model from that model’s fire team that was later killed).
This mention doesn't help much in either way, other than to say that it's viable to have a single model fire team. Now, most of us know that this can happen because each fire team is collected from its own datacard, not just the only non-specialist in a kill team of 5...
Q: Do New Recruits in an experienced fire team also cost the increased amount of points listed under Crack Troops? A: Yes.
Nothing either way here.
Q: I have a fire team of two experienced models and one New Recruit. In the next battle, the New Recruit survives but both experienced models die. What happens?
A: The New Recruit gains the fire team’s experience and advances. They do not gain one experience point for taking part in the mission. However, they could still gain one experience point after the mission if at least one enemy model was taken out of action during that mission by an attack made or psychic power manifested by that model (or another model from that model’s fire team that was later killed).
Nothing either way here.
Q: Can I choose not to assign a model to a fire team?
A: No. All non-specialist models chosen from a single datasheet always form a fire team.
This one restates the core rulebook - namely, that a single datasheet is used when forming fire teams. If your army has four datasheets (as Necrons do), then you can have four fire teams. Nice and simple - and contradicts all three of your claims.
Q: How are models that are not part of fire teams (like DS8 Tactical Support Turrets and Drones) added to a command roster in a campaign? A: They can be added to your kill team (and your command roster) in the same way as new Specialists (but they do not count as Specialists).
And, a side case for models that are not even a part of fire teams.
So - there we have it. A whole lot more evidence that all three of your claims are incorrect, and are against not only the Kill Team core rules, but also against the Designer's Commentary. And not a shred of evidence to support any of them.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/10/10 03:41:58
They showed some of the necron commander tactics. Resurrection Orb costs 3 points and can bring an Out of Action necron back to life on a 2+ and it is placed within 3" of the Overlord.
The kill-team Res Orb is objectively better and more like what it should be compared to the Codex res orb.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/10 16:21:47
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
It's interesting how all these new things to roll for (such as the Res Orb) interact with the Reroll tactic. That is - rolling a 1 after spending 3CP is really going to suck, and there's no reroll allowed!
Commanders is not what I was hoping for Necrons. It's a weird hero-hammer expansion.
I just wanted a Lychguard. Such a thing would be transformative to Kill Team Necrons.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
Yup - really hoping that the bring an "Elites" expansion soon. And not just "Elites" (followed in a month or two by "Fast Attack", then "Heavy Support"...) But rather, any units that could be in KT but currently aren't. So, lychguard, praetorians, even scarabs?
Disappointed they have this "mostly anti finecast" attitude. Would have loved seeing a Lord option in there too, just for those of us who have plenty of them spare!
What sort of wargear we talking when it comes to the OL?
i assume that they can take a WarScythe maybe?
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
Hey, could I ask why Warriors are considered to be bad? 12pts I guess is a lot, but they do have RP which seems pretty tanky if behind cover and -1AP which is quite nice for a small scale game.
)
(circling might have helped a bit more 
)
Both other teams were suffering from Shaken and Broken in the last couple of turns. Fairly standard loadout of 3 Immortals, 2 Deathmarks, 2 Flayed Ones. Flayed Ones (the Zealot especially) were amazing this game, pretty much the first time they've made a proper big impact.
~4100
~1660
4000 pts
