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A possible hint?

The events which take place in Tooth and Claw continue the story that began in Warhammer 40,000: Kill Team, and reveal the full extent of the threat faced by the world of Vigilus, while hinting at future events that may yet come to pass…
SNIP
...These force fields proved so effective that even when an Ork Waaagh! smashed into Vigilus, the greenskins were unable to assail the hive sprawls beyond, so took to seeking entertainment elsewhere by engaging in violent races across the sweeping open plains that separate the vast hive sprawls.

Box looks like a good deal for the GSC and a waste for any SM player.

Don't buy this hoping you can sell the SW side and keep the GSC side. Unless the primaris dread gets a re-work in CA that thing is a non-competitive paper weight. If those are the easy to assemble flamer only aggressors they worse on the table than the dread.

I would have loved to see some actual primaris sized wolfen or other iconic SW units. The primaris dread with a viking shield and huge axe would have been awesome, instead you are getting the dad bod special with a couple extra bits of bling.

I hope the box flops. The GSC stuff looks fun but I'm guessing anyone who wanted intercessors already has them and everything else in the SW side of the box is sub-par at best on the table top. GW needs to push the envelope. This is 40k, grim dark, if you are going all wolfie-mcwolf face then go all out. Fangs, claws, vikings and werewolves!!! Trying to get all SM players to use the same basic models with just little bling differences is lazy, exploitative and I hope it fails.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
A possible hint?

The events which take place in Tooth and Claw continue the story that began in Warhammer 40,000: Kill Team, and reveal the full extent of the threat faced by the world of Vigilus, while hinting at future events that may yet come to pass…
SNIP
...These force fields proved so effective that even when an Ork Waaagh! smashed into Vigilus, the greenskins were unable to assail the hive sprawls beyond, so took to seeking entertainment elsewhere by engaging in violent races across the sweeping open plains that separate the vast hive sprawls.

Sweeping open plains? Hmmm did someone say Primaris Bikers?

The notion that being able to sell Space Marine sprues on Ebay is somehow difficult or related to their table effectiveness is... odd.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
A possible hint?

The events which take place in Tooth and Claw continue the story that began in Warhammer 40,000: Kill Team, and reveal the full extent of the threat faced by the world of Vigilus, while hinting at future events that may yet come to pass…
SNIP
...These force fields proved so effective that even when an Ork Waaagh! smashed into Vigilus, the greenskins were unable to assail the hive sprawls beyond, so took to seeking entertainment elsewhere by engaging in violent races across the sweeping open plains that separate the vast hive sprawls.

Gorkamorka confirmed

Indeed. There was a very small, knowing smile on Phil Kelly's lips when he casually mentioned Orks in the video - I immediately took that as a sign they will tie Gorkamorka into the Vigilus storyline.

I wonder if there are Necron tombs beneath the surface as well, so they will also tie this into the blackstone storyline...

bananathug wrote:
I hope the box flops. The GSC stuff looks fun but I'm guessing anyone who wanted intercessors already has them and everything else in the SW side of the box is sub-par at best on the table top. GW needs to push the envelope. This is 40k, grim dark, if you are going all wolfie-mcwolf face then go all out. Fangs, claws, vikings and werewolves!!! Trying to get all SM players to use the same basic models with just little bling differences is lazy, exploitative and I hope it fails.

Thank god there wasn't all wolfie-mcwolf. SW were much more interesting before that junk appeared.

Justyn wrote:

You know that your Sergeants can have power swords too? Every Intercessor Sergeants can have a power sword.

Except BA and SW:

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Downloads/K3ns3JDOGE2asjf/Primaris-week-4/IORF435R4_ENG_Primaris_Marines_Release_04_July_29th.pdf

BA have been FAQd to be allowed power swords. Why wouldn't SW be the same when their Codex comes?

Furthermore, what's stopping you playing a mono-Primaris SW army, using regular SM rules? If the lack of a sword means that much.

In fact, functionally, Primaris Intercessors are identical to Grey Hunters barring a few differences:
An extra Wound
A more powerful bolter
No embedded Wolf Guard or special weapons
No access to power weapons (except on the sergeant)
No transports, barring the Repulsor

Seeing as the only thing you ask for is "filling the same role as Grey Hunters), the only thing that you'd be missing is the special weapons and transport access, in exchange for better regular shooting and an extra Wound. What's the problem?

I think the problem is:

No embedded Wolf Guard or special weapons
No access to power weapons.
No transports, barring the Repulsor

But you don't need all of that to be Grey Hunters. Special Weapons can be covered by Hellblasters, Wolf Guard are rarely taken, from what I see, power weapons are on one guy (and may be coming soon), and a transport is hardly an issue when your weapons have a very respectable range over normal GH anyway.

If you ARE after embedded weapons, and power weapons, Deathwatch do this in their Primaris lists. Count-as your Primaris Wolves as Deathwatch, maybe?

bananathug wrote:I hope the box flops. The GSC stuff looks fun but I'm guessing anyone who wanted intercessors already has them and everything else in the SW side of the box is sub-par at best on the table top. GW needs to push the envelope. This is 40k, grim dark, if you are going all wolfie-mcwolf face then go all out. Fangs, claws, vikings and werewolves!!! Trying to get all SM players to use the same basic models with just little bling differences is lazy, exploitative and I hope it fails.

I don't like the wolfie-mcwolf stuff, and I feel that the Space Wolves are better as only a slightly more flavoursome version of "the same basic models".

Conversely, I love the Primaris Marines, their scuplts, and units (which some personal wishes of mine - Reivers with some kind of power weapons, a lighter/cheaper transport than the Repulsor, and something a little more anti-tank for infantry models than the heavy plasma incinerator) and hope this box does well.

YMMV.

Justyn wrote:

It is because Wolf Priests have never been as good at healing as Apothecaries in any edition. I would love it if they were. Hell I'd buy a Primaris Apothecary in a heartbeat. The ability to get guys back up is pretty amazing.

Speaking of which, in their webstore there is Primaris Apothecary in the SW section... Has it been there for long? The PDF still says that they cannot take one... Sucks if it is just a mistake, I'm sure plenty of people will order one imagining they can use it.

Of the Primaris Models I like the Intercessors and the Hellblasters. IE the most basic guys. The rest of them look stupid, from the Reivers wierd ankles and half masks to the jump packs that feed direct into the helmet.

Organizationally I hate them, they are bland every guys is the same squads. They are boring. That is what generic Marines exist for.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Speaking of which, in their webstore there is Primaris Apothecary in the SW section... Has it been there for long? The PDF still says that they cannot take one... Sucks if it is just a mistake, I'm sure plenty of people will order one imagining they can use it.

I don't remember seeing it there before. But I wasn't looking either. Guess we will know for sure in a couple weeks.

Fair points all around.

I like the extreme sculpts. Space marine characters (grimaldus and his retinue, the sanguinor with his golden abs, celestine and her wings...) just evoke the over-the-top feeling that I get from the 40k-verse. If "normal" marines are what you're after ultra-marines are mary suing all over the galaxy. I want big hair, beard braids and wolves. Some kick-butt biker dudes on choppers would be awesome (it's what I see in my head)!!

But my opinion is worth about as much as the paper it's written on and there's no accounting for taste so there's that. I can respect the people that want more grim minimal sculpts.

I'm a huge fan of the primaris for the most part (the closed helm inceptors are bad, I actually like the aggressors, I don't like the dread or repulsor at all, the reivers and intercessors are so good though). The dynamic poses are awesome (so much easier than using a heat gun...) and the size makes it so much easier for me to paint.

I fell in love with black templars/dark angels for the robes/chains and over the topness of it all. I'd rather GW go in that direction but I'm sure they'll go in the direction that sells the most (hence my hope that this thing bombs). I'll admit the line between too much cheesy bling vs this guy looks like he'd murder an entire planet is super subjective and hard to pin down.

As for selling. I seem to be able to find marine stuff dirt cheap while the flavor of the month tournament winners seem to sell for a lot more (most terminator lots don't sell or sell at a steep discount. Price point for primaris seems to be set by people still parting out DI). Again, just my personal experience (I don't have any hard sales data to back it up so I will quickly relinquish my position if anyone knows better).

All of the Primaris models look bad. From the awkwardly posed foot troops to the flying armored baby carriages.

Their pricing is also atrocious. People complain that the AT Titans that make up a huge chunk of your army are $110, yet we're in the era where just one 10 man troop choice box costs $60-75 depending on which chapter you play.

Primaris are complete <removed>, or to stay in the Wolfy McWolffe spirit - they're complete <removed>.

But yay, Ork news!

PLEASE REFRAIN FROM CIRCUMVENTING THE LANGUAGE FILTER - BROOKM

 zend wrote:
All of the Primaris models look bad. From the awkwardly posed foot troops to the flying armored baby carriages.

 zend wrote:
All of the Primaris models look bad. From the awkwardly posed foot troops to the flying armored baby carriages.

And the Mark VII marines had better posing? And the Stormtalon/Stormraven aren't horribly un-aerodynamic? (I still like them though)

Their pricing is also atrocious. People complain that the AT Titans that make up a huge chunk of your army are $110, yet we're in the era where just one 10 man troop choice box costs $60-75 depending on which chapter you play.

The models are larger, they come with plenty of posing choices, the Chapter pads are optional, no-one's forcing you to buy them, they're higher detailed, and on top of that, there's still inflation as a factor.

If you expected Primaris to cost the same as what 10 Tactical Marines ten years ago used to, I think you may have had unrealistic expectations.

Primaris are complete dogshit, or to stay in the Wolfy McWolffe spirit - they're complete wolfshit.

I disagree, but that's okay. It's the Internet.

But yay, Ork news!

Agreed.

If they had embiggened all the Marines and not made the wierd models they would have eventually sold me an entire new army. Instead I bought enough Hellblasters, and some of the Intercessors and LTs. I got two sets of the Marine side of DI but have not built any of the other models.

Convenient that you chose a comparison with an old push fit starter set marine that was onl slightly retooled for Dark Vengeance.

And yet I'd rather have that chode marine considering I can get at least 4 units of them for the cost of a single Primaris box.

 zend wrote:
Convenient that you chose a comparison with an old push fit starter set marine that was onl slightly retooled for Dark Vengeance.

They've been the norm for Mark VIIs for years. And yet the Primaris next to them is also a monopose marine, and the snapfits are also far better posed.

And yet I'd rather have that chode marine considering I can get at least 4 units of them for the cost of a single Primaris box.

If quantity is more important than quality (or is a quality in itself), then more power to you.

I'd rather have a far better looking model. If I wanted cheap, I'd get plastic green army soldiers in a bag for £1. Of course, that's also my opinion.

 zend wrote:
Convenient that you chose a comparison with an old push fit starter set marine that was onl slightly retooled for Dark Vengeance.

And yet I'd rather have that chode marine considering I can get at least 4 units of them for the cost of a single Primaris box.

Yeah because the other marinelets were such great sculpts.

Actually thinking about it, I'm surprised none of the third party bitz makers have started making things like melee weapons and arms for Primaris sized models, or Heavy Weapons.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
A possible hint?

The events which take place in Tooth and Claw continue the story that began in Warhammer 40,000: Kill Team, and reveal the full extent of the threat faced by the world of Vigilus, while hinting at future events that may yet come to pass…
SNIP
...These force fields proved so effective that even when an Ork Waaagh! smashed into Vigilus, the greenskins were unable to assail the hive sprawls beyond, so took to seeking entertainment elsewhere by engaging in violent races across the sweeping open plains that separate the vast hive sprawls.

While i'd love the hint to be Gorkamorka, remember this licenced boardgame from gencon


It’s high time that Gretchin got a game of their own – which is why we jumped at the opportunity to bring you just that in Gretchinz. This game has been out for a little while now, and we think it’s well worth a look. Crazy races between diminutive greenskinz? Sign us up!

bananathug wrote:
Box looks like a good deal for the GSC and a waste for any SM player.

Don't buy this hoping you can sell the SW side and keep the GSC side. Unless the primaris dread gets a re-work in CA that thing is a non-competitive paper weight. If those are the easy to assemble flamer only aggressors they worse on the table than the dread.

I would have loved to see some actual primaris sized wolfen or other iconic SW units. The primaris dread with a viking shield and huge axe would have been awesome, instead you are getting the dad bod special with a couple extra bits of bling.

I hope the box flops. The GSC stuff looks fun but I'm guessing anyone who wanted intercessors already has them and everything else in the SW side of the box is sub-par at best on the table top. GW needs to push the envelope. This is 40k, grim dark, if you are going all wolfie-mcwolf face then go all out. Fangs, claws, vikings and werewolves!!! Trying to get all SM players to use the same basic models with just little bling differences is lazy, exploitative and I hope it fails.

What about those of us who don't care about competitive play and only want to build cool thematic armies, using the miniatures that we personally like?

Saying " I hope the box flops" is a lot like saying "I hope the safety on my shotgun malfunctions when I'm cleaning it later."

did anyone notice GW shifted the paintjob image?
this ...


...for

Justyn wrote:
Of the Primaris Models I like the Intercessors and the Hellblasters. IE the most basic guys. The rest of them look stupid, from the Reivers wierd ankles and half masks to the jump packs that feed direct into the helmet.

Organizationally I hate them, they are bland every guys is the same squads. They are boring. That is what generic Marines exist for.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Speaking of which, in their webstore there is Primaris Apothecary in the SW section... Has it been there for long? The PDF still says that they cannot take one... Sucks if it is just a mistake, I'm sure plenty of people will order one imagining they can use it.

I don't remember seeing it there before. But I wasn't looking either. Guess we will know for sure in a couple weeks.

I adore the aggressors, they're some of my favorite marine sclupts to date. Really wish I could bring one in a kill team!

The latter is much better.

Ugh, GW has been murdering my wallet lately. Getting hard to keep up. Hopefully this boxset will stay up for a month or two.

But you can build space wolves with the primaris that have already been released. I just don't feel like these models add anything to the line.

Sure it may take a couple extra bits that SW players probably have laying around (or can order from the interwebs) but calling these "new models" seems used car salesmanie...I guess the "new model" is the primaris battle leader and the GSC side of the box so there's that but I want primaris kits that represent the essential elements of the chapters not just the same intercessor sculpt with chapter markings glued on.

Maybe I'm just still salty about not getting robes on my primaris but I feel that GW is getting lazy after such a good start. Not to poop in your cheerios if you haven't bought any primaris yet but you could get an upgrade pack and some cheap DI models and build almost everything on the SM side of this box...

Does anyone know if this box contains a full rulebook like DI or just the quick rules?

The picture of the contents is fairly clear...



... that Tooth and Claw will be just like Forgebane and will not have a full rulebook.

Justyn wrote:
Of the Primaris Models I like the Intercessors and the Hellblasters. IE the most basic guys. The rest of them look stupid, from the Reivers wierd ankles and half masks to the jump packs that feed direct into the helmet.

You are aware that Reivers get not only "half masks" in box, but also full helmets, yes? Ditto with enclosed helmets, it was exposed head on jump marines that looked colossally stupid. First landing and the SM would have broken his neck. There is reason racing drivers in high performance series wear HANS devices - and primaris head protection resembling one is far more realistic than than squatmarine variant...

I fell in love with black templars/dark angels for the robes/chains and over the topness of it all.

I take you never seen DA primaris lieutenant...?

bananathug wrote:
Sure it may take a couple extra bits that SW players probably have laying around (or can order from the interwebs) but calling these "new models" seems used car salesmanie...I guess the "new model" is the primaris battle leader and the GSC side of the box so there's that but I want primaris kits that represent the essential elements of the chapters not just the same intercessor sculpt with chapter markings glued on.

By that standard, Horus Heresy models by FW are crap because 95% of them is just basic Mk x marine with chapter bits glued on. Somehow though, still thousands of people love building these...

 zend wrote:
All of the Primaris models look bad. From the awkwardly posed foot troops to the flying armored baby carriages.

[checks website, wait, it's not 4chan...]

Wait, did warp portal to 2016 opened somewhere when I wasn't looking?

Nah just there's always been that small number of people who haven't gotten over the introduction of primaris Marines. there always will be. I used to play Battletech, to this day there are people who insist anything that came after the 3025 era is garbage. and that ended in 1990.