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Rogerio134134 wrote:
Will everyone be jumping on the Ork bandwagon? I have a small force of about 20 blood axe kommados I painted up for kill team and am tempted to expand them into a full army but if they become massively overused I might not bother

It's called a battlewagon

And there is enough room for everyone. Hold on good, we won't be coming back if you fall off

 xttz wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Bollocks. We are not paying for DDD and we are not paying for clan rules, and what other factions do doesn't matter one bit to orks. The one thing that matters is that orks, as a whole, work. Feth humies and spikey pansies, they will get their reward sooner or later.

I'll just go from the bold claim that anything but nobz is viable now (though I still wonder how they managed to make foot nobz worse than 7pt boyz).
We get lootas and planes that can actually alpha-strike something off the board.
We get psykers that can cast two powers, and probably at least one other useful power next to da jump
We get relics and warlord traits that enable warbosses to flip tanks again
We get stratagems that make key units harder to kill
We get stratagems that make boyz fight again

Now apply all that to a current ork green tide tournament list.
It might have turned out a tad too powerful and therefore boyz went up. The play tested some more and then it was fine. That's how play-testing is supposed to work.

Please stop using logic and facts in the tneva Hyperbole Thread. How dare you offer a reasonable explanation for a 16% point increase that somehow turns units from good to COMPLETELY UNPLAYABLE.

He's not using facts though.

All those stratagems, relics and psychic powers he said and you quoted are conjecture. The 'facts' are that Boys are going to 32s but gained DDD. That's a nerf, regardless of any other changes. Then we hear a rumour that Boys have also gone up a point. This is also a nerf.

I haven't said anywhere that Boys are now unplayable. You can play with any unit this edition, I always run bikes for example. Something many of you think is impossible in a competitive setting.

What I actually did was to refute the idea that this isn't a nerf. Of course it is, if there are no other changes. Whether its a needed nerf or not will come from seeing the rest of the codex (this is something I've also said repeatedly).

 Jidmah wrote:

Or we could just wait till we know more instead of loosing our mind based on limited information.

Friggin' GW is making fun of ork players, ork threads have become more toxic than the "everybody hates peregrine"-thread and get locked twice a day and the ork community is dying because every attempt to discuss anything is drowned out a bunch of people telling everyone how GW is the worst company ever, over and over again.

Don't you think it's about time to return to rational discussion and abandon the "orks are offended by everything"-movement?

I fail to see how discussion around the viability of Boys at 7ppm on 32s is anything but rational. Seems to be a whole lot of strawmanning in your post above.

People aren't 'losing their minds'. They aren't 'being toxic'. I don't think I've seen the words 'GW is the worst company ever' at all. In any thread. I've seen people strawmanning that this is what some of the Ork player base believe though. Which is bogus. This isn't a 'orks are offended by everything-movement', it's a discussion around rumours presented (y'know, the title). If someone says something in a thread that is flat wrong, like 'this nerf to Boys is more of a 'side grade' I don't think there's any harm trying to correct them.

I thought you of all people would want to discuss the tactical value of a unit that has increased in cost by 16%, has become half as effective in close combat (where the majority of their damage is) but gained DDD and the clan traits.

Yes we need to see the full codex. But unless you've got a copy to share and discuss this is all we have.

 Jidmah wrote:

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Will everyone be jumping on the Ork bandwagon? I have a small force of about 20 blood axe kommados I painted up for kill team and am tempted to expand them into a full army but if they become massively overused I might not bother

It's called a battlewagon

And there is enough room for everyone. Hold on good, we won't be coming back if you fall off

Exactly, that shouldn't bother you. I know that, but to be fair I have Imperial Knights and when they got massively improved with their codex I've been less inclined to use them. I just want Orks to be strong and viable in several builds but hopefully none of those builds becomes the net list and comes under massive scrutiny gfrom GW.

(Also, it's a lot easier to jump on the battlewagon if it indeed got a 41 points drop)

Kommandos no longer available on GW site, does this indicate new Kommando kits inbound?

Ammo Pouch wrote:
Kommandos no longer available on GW site, does this indicate new Kommando kits inbound?

sadly only in GB

 Jidmah wrote:

geargutz wrote:

If you see that as an "insult", you really should take time off posting on dakka and read some decent ork novel, flip through an old codex or read some ork posts on a WH40k wiki of your choice. You are obviously suffering from serious withdrawal effects from too little orkyness.

Ya weedy git.

insults are insults, no matter how "mild" they might be. im fine and dandy with the occasional insult,like i said, i do it myself, i was just stating that trying to bring about a proper discussion is not helped when you start with an insult. this is debate 1o1. if you want a logical debate/conversation then you don't throw an insult. if you want to stay closed off and in your own bubble of thought while villainizing the opposition then throw as many insults as you want.

back on the topic of rumors
it said only nobs/bikenobs/meganobs are bad while the rest was good.i like the sound of that. too bad we dont have much to go off of if that includes the units that will most likely be left in the index.
index models are the least likely to get pts adjustments in either a codex or chapter approved, but their war gear can still be changed for the better. if the twinbigshoota or the skorcha get decent price decreases then maybe the defkopta and old buggies might still be usefull (if not ultra competitive). the defkopta is one of my favorite models and i constantly worry whats gonna become of it.

though we might get lucky. if we have so many units with no models/not plastic then maybe GW might keep them in the codex instead of keeping them in the index so that we wont have a good portion of our army dropped (this is me hoping more then anything, its probably unlikely)

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 xttz wrote:


Please stop using logic and facts in the tneva Hyperbole Thread. How dare you offer a reasonable explanation for a 16% point increase that somehow turns units from good to COMPLETELY UNPLAYABLE.

He's not using facts though.

All those stratagems, relics and psychic powers he said and you quoted are conjecture. The 'facts' are that Boys are going to 32s but gained DDD. That's a nerf, regardless of any other changes. Then we hear a rumour that Boys have also gone up a point. This is also a nerf.

I haven't said anywhere that Boys are now unplayable. You can play with any unit this edition, I always run bikes for example. Something many of you think is impossible in a competitive setting.

What I actually did was to refute the idea that this isn't a nerf. Of course it is, if there are no other changes. Whether its a needed nerf or not will come from seeing the rest of the codex (this is something I've also said repeatedly).

Not sure why you're replying to me like this when I didn't quote your post at all? I specifically referenced tneva who claimed Boyz had been "nerfed to death".

Also it would be handy if you can reference any GW rules text that means you have to either:
a) Rebase existing models onto 32mm bases
b) Are forced to use 32mm bases
Because without that rule that's not a nerf

Ammo Pouch wrote:
Kommandos no longer available on GW site, does this indicate new Kommando kits inbound?

It most likely indicates a re-packaging with new box art and assembly instructions that include 8E rules.

 xttz wrote:
Not sure why you're replying to me like this when I didn't quote your post at all? I specifically referenced tneva who claimed Boyz had been "nerfed to death".

Also it would be handy if you can reference any GW rules text that means you have to either:
a) Rebase existing models onto 32mm bases
b) Are forced to use 32mm bases
Because without that rule that's not a nerf.

Let me paint a scenario for you, see if it helps explain where I'm coming from. Imagine I'm a new player who has no orks and want to start an army so I buy a few boxes of Boys. What bases will they be supplied/built with? What happens if an existing player wants to add a few more Boys to his army? He plays with Boys on different sized bases or what?

For all of us existing players I'll refer you to the AOS suggested base size chart for matched play (as in casual matched play, not just tournament play). How long do you think it'll be before GW release an equivalent document for 40k?

Is a point increase not a nerf?

Ammo Pouch wrote:
... does this indicate new Kommando kits inbound?

Probably a reboxing with 32mm bases. Or direct only.

Or both!

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 xttz wrote:
Not sure why you're replying to me like this when I didn't quote your post at all? I specifically referenced tneva who claimed Boyz had been "nerfed to death".

Also it would be handy if you can reference any GW rules text that means you have to either:
a) Rebase existing models onto 32mm bases
b) Are forced to use 32mm bases
Because without that rule that's not a nerf.

Let me paint a scenario for you, see if it helps explain where I'm coming from. Imagine I'm a new player who has no orks and want to start an army so I buy a few boxes of Boys. What bases will they be supplied/built with? What happens if an existing player wants to add a few more Boys to his army? He plays with Boys on different sized bases or what?

For all of us existing players I'll refer you to the AOS suggested base size chart for matched play (as in casual matched play, not just tournament play). How long do you think it'll be before GW release an equivalent document for 40k?

Is a point increase not a nerf?

Well, it seems to me like most players who already have a lot of boyz will probably get some of the old, smaller bases from somewhere else and stick those on. Who would know? But yeah, for new players it'll be 32's most likely. I sort of imagine this will be reinforced when 9th rolls around

PiñaColada wrote:

Well, it seems to me like most players who already have a lot of boyz will probably get some of the old, smaller bases from somewhere else and stick those on. Who would know? But yeah, for new players it'll be 32's most likely. I sort of imagine this will be reinforced when 9th rolls around

Yea I agree.

You play Evil Sunz like me right? Are you going to rebase your bikes with those ovals assuming you get speed freeks?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:

Well, it seems to me like most players who already have a lot of boyz will probably get some of the old, smaller bases from somewhere else and stick those on. Who would know? But yeah, for new players it'll be 32's most likely. I sort of imagine this will be reinforced when 9th rolls around

Yea I agree.

You play Evil Sunz like me right? Are you going to rebase your bikes with those ovals assuming you get speed freeks?

Yeah, I do & I think I will, since I don't have a massive amount of bikes.. I'm unsure if GW sells those bases by themselves though and not in some assorted base blister pack. Although frankly, I probably prefer the look of the old bikes bases (something that cannot be said for boyz on 32's, which are aesthetically much more pleasing than the old ones)

I will, however, absolutely get Speed Freeks. Everything in that box seems pretty useful and it might be the only way to get those specific buggies for a while and at a (hopefully) significant discount, so why not?

Anyway, I've been following this thread for the odd bits of news on it. I've played Orc/Orks for the last 20 years so don't really do it for the super competitive side of the game, I just really like them and the lore around them. I do hope the codex brings some some units back into being responsibly useful and makes speedwaaagh! or lists other than Greentide more of a possibility

I'm really liking the new models they have revealed so far and a small but greedy part of me still wants more new models that aren't buggies/vehicles. Even if some of the new ones turn out to be not worth the points then at least I have a whole load of new bits to do conversions with As for release dates, delayed gratification is what is all about

I'll reserve my judgement of the whole month when its over.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
For all of us existing players I'll refer you to the AOS suggested base size chart for matched play (as in casual matched play, not just tournament play). How long do you think it'll be before GW release an equivalent document for 40k?

You really need to decide whether uncertain rules are valid arguments or not.

As of now, you allow yourself to assume things while attacking other people for doing the same.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ammo Pouch wrote:
Kommandos no longer available on GW site, does this indicate new Kommando kits inbound?

They have two signs, one is "Sold out" and one is "No longer available". The later one could indicate something.

More likely kommados are just gone because of their popularity in killteam.

Kommandos probably getting reboxed and with 32mm bases.

Or maybe Kommandos sold out because a bunch of people wanted them for Kill Team.

I do love these Ork threads. We all fight among ourselves to get stronger until our codex comes out and we band together to crush the other factions (and maybe still fight each other a little).

 Jidmah wrote:

You really need to decide whether uncertain rules are valid arguments or not.

As of now, you allow yourself to assume things while attacking other people for doing the same.

The thread is for discussing rumours. These rules are all uncertain until GW decides to publish the codex. I thought we were to make sensible assumptions based off the rumours rather than just making up our own ideas and adding them to the mix?

The rumours are that Boys are going to 32s and they are 7ppm. If we discount the 32 base because there's no official rule telling us to rebase, surely you admit an increase from 6-7 ppm without any other changes is a nerf? Do you reckon DDD is worth the extra point? Or that and clan tactics?

I'm not seeing it.

Your counter, of course is the rumoured fight again stratagem that Boys can employ. But we pay for stratagems with CP right?

Has no-one really managed to translate all the Ork rumours from that french youtube video yet? Or were they correctly translated in their entirety already?

 ceorron wrote:
Really it sounds like "Vigilus" is going to bring "new enemies" (aka new imperial units) rather than more ork boxes by the sounds of that quote.

Maybe but i'm not hearing more speed-freaks from that quote. Maybe the "and wagons" part. Maybe we could be getting a looted wagon kit?!? Wasn't there a rumor about that?

I wasn't talking about more models. While I'm happy with the new buggies I would have preferred maybe two multi-build kits and the other resources used for Kommandos and some new oddboyz. We really don't need more buggies.

I was thinking more along the lines of the gameplay. I'm not getting the impression that GorkaMorka style games can be done with Speedfreeks. I'm thinking about rules for infantry and trukks and more constrictive battlefields (ALL of which MIGHT be in Speedfreeks, but I've yet to see any sort of dismounted models). I don't expect the game to get continuous support they way they seem to be planning for Kill Team, but "it is only a matter of time before the Speedwaaagh! overcomes the Imperial defences and the racers get a whole new set of dangerous routes to race across and new enemies to test their wagons and bikes against.." seems like something additional is coming. It might be the addition of human teams, but there aren't many vehicles that would be suitable. I doubt they will release a whole range of of light human vehicles, but MAYBE Necromunda has similar plans for Outland expansion and two will crossover.

IDK..

fe40k wrote:

Let’s be real with ourselves; Boyz are 7ppm because they were the most popular ork units at tournaments, and because it forces players to buy newer/other models.

Pretty much this.

If boyz were the most optimal choice by a large margin it would hurt the sales of all the snazzy new vehicles.

 Nostromodamus wrote:
Or maybe Kommandos sold out because a bunch of people wanted them for Kill Team.

They were selling out before KT came out. They'd not been labeled "Sold Out" before though.

It might not mean anything other than a temporarily halt on sales while they cast up more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 adamsouza wrote:

fe40k wrote:

Let’s be real with ourselves; Boyz are 7ppm because they were the most popular ork units at tournaments, and because it forces players to buy newer/other models.

Pretty much this.

If boyz were the most optimal choice by a large margin it would hurt the sales of all the snazzy new vehicles.

Won't really matter if the Boyz are overpriced now if the other problem Troop choices are getting bumped up with CA2019 in December.

PiñaColada wrote:
Has no-one really managed to translate all the Ork rumours from that french youtube video yet? Or were they correctly translated in their entirety already?

I listened to the video at the different times originally posted by the Englishman (see spoiler), and the translation is correct. I haven't watched the whole 5 hours video, tho... Some of it seemed like the guy "knew" the information (2 of the buggies being OP, 32mm bases for boys, 7 pts boys, grot still 3 pts, grot shield strategem, clan traits, no Ghazghkull new model, trukk boyz being viable, nobz being bad, BW being 120 pts) and at other times he seemed to be wishlisting (weirdboy stratagem for level 2, wartrike stats, teleporta stratagem) . But it could still be true. Seemed like educated guesses.

yeah, i feel like the translation needs context. He could be wish-listing and people are miss translating. However, out of all of them only 1 or two of the leaks are new so he could be getting them for the same source or just talking about stuff he has read.

Tastyfish wrote:
That extra point covers boyz getting a Klan trait and strategem access too. DDD might not be worth a point, and could easily be seen as a bugfix so that -2 to hit doesn't make ork shooting pointless (and hence make orks reluctant to advance), but a 6++ on a 6 point model would be worth a point.

As pointed out before, no other faction received a price hike on their troops simply because they gained access to Klan Trait (equivalents) or strategems. DDD isn't worth anything since its such a MINOR increase in shooting, if boyz went to 4+ to hit then yeah maybe a 1pt bump would be needed, but not for DDD, that was simply a way to make ork shooting at least not worthless against some armies/units. A 6+++ on a 6pt model is not worth a point either and as mentioned that is a Klan trait.

Tastyfish wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
Where is the guardsmen's point increase for getting klan traits?

Maybe in chapter approved, last balance for them was trying to get the internal balance between them and conscripts right (and this is not the only thread that questions their point cost) - but that's not the point. We're just talking ork boyz here.

Presumably if they're going up a point, playtesting during the development of the ork codex found that they were probably a bit too cheap at 6 points. Possibly down to internal balance, but I could believe that it could also be down to the traits being a little more significant than some of the other factions traits given orks already come with a speed boost and morale mitigation.

Playtesting by Ork play testers is about as reliable as a 20 year old condom with a hole in it. Ork playtesters tested our index remember? A specific member of that team went ahead and said something along the lines of "THE STOMPA IS AMAZING!" and "KANZ ARE SUPER GOOD!" how did that pan out?

As for the speed boost....you mean by nerfing our movement in 8th by 17%?

 xttz wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
7 point boyz is a bit of a disappointment - maybe they're trying to get people to bring something besides boyz spam? If that's the case, they'd better give us other playable options.

Agreed. I'll never understand GW's attitude toward orks. Why chose to nerf our one good unit?

Perhaps... and bear with me here... Boyz are now even better thanks to having access to new armywide special rules, stratagems, cheaper transports, etc?

Army wide special rules...like everyone else, stratagems....like everyone else, Cheaper transports......maybe? But if the points for boyz and battlwagonz are correct then 20 boyz in a wagon only dropped 20pts. So going from useless in the extreme to useless? Not to mention that unless they change our unit bonus then those boyz need to lose 1 model to lose 20 CC attacks.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 rollawaythestone wrote:
It's possible Chapter Approved roles around and raises the cost of all trash-mob units to limit hordes on the tabletop?

I was just going to post this. I have been suspecting GW is going to increase most of the basic infantry in the game by 1-2 points.

BTW you guys need to consider table top performance. A basic shoota boy from the Evil Suns will now have mob rule, DDD, Ear we go, +1 to advance and +1 to charges and ignore the penalty on every gun the unit can take. That effectively gives them a 27" threat range and they will average 20 s4 hits per 30 man mob. If they were 6ppm that would be way too much IMHO. Oh and that mob can still assault if a boss is nearby (why wouldn't he be) for another 40 s4 hits. The fact that they are T4 is a big deal.

Evil suns is stupidly good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Who said your going up for faction traits? Your ignoring what I wrote pretty blatantly. You GAINED DDD, DDD as far as I am aware is not a trait. So your not going up in cost for nothing.

20 S4 hits against a Tac Marine unit is 10 wounds and 3.3 Dead Marines which totals 39pts. So a 210pt unit managed to kill 40pts of Marines. My general rule of thumb is that a unit should be able to kill about 1/3rd of its total points cost in a single shooting phase to be considered good, not great, not epic, just good. this thing didn't even kill 1/5th.

DDD isn't worth anything for most units, its good for a couple of units to get maybe an extra hit like KMKs but it is so unreliable that you really can't count on it doing anything. 6+'s are generally like that, unless you are rolling a LOT of dice on 6+ it isn't worth much. Take our Armor save for example, that 6+ doesn't happen often enough, but when it does its kind of like a little bonus you get a warm fuzzy about. "Ohhh! instead of losing 12 models I only lost 10, cool!". You could take away ork armor saves in general and make them 5ppm and it would be a buff not a nerf.

 lolman1c wrote:
yeah, i feel like the translation needs context. He could be wish-listing and people are miss translating. However, out of all of them only 1 or two of the leaks are new so he could be getting them for the same source or just talking about stuff he has read.

Well like I said, sometimes he was saying it like he was wishlisting (see my previous post), but at other times (and most of the time), he was saying it like he had read the codex or playtested or spoke to someone who had. He was sure of the info.

Trust my native language, I'm not miss translating

Now it could still be false info. We shall see.

Meganobz never get to be viable, except in our hearts. :(

Shame, they’re the coolest units too.

SemperMortis wrote:

Tastyfish wrote:
That extra point covers boyz getting a Klan trait and strategem access too. DDD might not be worth a point, and could easily be seen as a bugfix so that -2 to hit doesn't make ork shooting pointless (and hence make orks reluctant to advance), but a 6++ on a 6 point model would be worth a point.

As pointed out before, no other faction received a price hike on their troops simply because they gained access to Klan Trait (equivalents) or strategems. DDD isn't worth anything since its such a MINOR increase in shooting, if boyz went to 4+ to hit then yeah maybe a 1pt bump would be needed, but not for DDD, that was simply a way to make ork shooting at least not worthless against some armies/units. A 6+++ on a 6pt model is not worth a point either and as mentioned that is a Klan trait.

I said DDD was a bugfix, not something that would warrant a price change. 6+++ is definitely worth around a 1 point on a 6 point model - it'll save you 1pts worth of Ork per Ork just from saves, as well as likely saving another ork or two from morale if you had taken enough casualties for that to be an issue (say 12 guys from a unit of 24 - Snakebites only lose 10 and will lose another ork or two on a 5 or 6. Index orks will lose 12 and then D6 more Orks!) - plus it's a toughness boost on a tough horde infantry unit.

Assuming that the other traits are close to this, then a codex ork boy could well be worth 7 points once strats/psychics/traits are taken into account. What happened to other factions is irrelevant, as is how much they costed in the index - what matters is how much an Ork boy is worth in the new codex. And if you're going to write off playtesting by the development team, then not a lot to say - Codex Orks is a different list from Index Orks, no reason to expect things to stay the same.

Whether the boosts from other elements of the codex outweighs the increase in cost is what's going to determine whether Boyz have been buffed or nerfed. If I had to guess whether a Codex list with 7pt boyz would beat an index list with 6pt ones, both going boy heavy even - I'd put my money on the Codex Ladz.

Tastyfish wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

Tastyfish wrote:
That extra point covers boyz getting a Klan trait and strategem access too. DDD might not be worth a point, and could easily be seen as a bugfix so that -2 to hit doesn't make ork shooting pointless (and hence make orks reluctant to advance), but a 6++ on a 6 point model would be worth a point.

As pointed out before, no other faction received a price hike on their troops simply because they gained access to Klan Trait (equivalents) or strategems. DDD isn't worth anything since its such a MINOR increase in shooting, if boyz went to 4+ to hit then yeah maybe a 1pt bump would be needed, but not for DDD, that was simply a way to make ork shooting at least not worthless against some armies/units. A 6+++ on a 6pt model is not worth a point either and as mentioned that is a Klan trait.

I said DDD was a bugfix, not something that would warrant a price change. 6+++ is definitely worth around a 1 point on a 6 point model - it'll save you 1pts worth of Ork per Ork just from saves, as well as likely saving another ork or two from morale if you had taken enough casualties for that to be an issue (say 12 guys from a unit of 24 - Snakebites only lose 10 and will lose another ork or two on a 5 or 6. Index orks will lose 12 and then D6 more Orks!) - plus it's a toughness boost on a tough horde infantry unit.

Assuming that the other traits are close to this, then a codex ork boy could well be worth 7 points once strats/psychics/traits are taken into account. What happened to other factions is irrelevant, as is how much they costed in the index - what matters is how much an Ork boy is worth in the new codex. And if you're going to write off playtesting by the development team, then not a lot to say - Codex Orks is a different list from Index Orks, no reason to expect things to stay the same.

Whether the boosts from other elements of the codex outweighs the increase in cost is what's going to determine whether Boyz have been buffed or nerfed. If I had to guess whether a Codex list with 7pt boyz would beat an index list with 6pt ones, both going boy heavy even - I'd put my money on the Codex Ladz.

DDD is not a bug fix, as there are other units that hit on 5s that haven't received the same attention, if it was truly a bug fix they would have used the errata to fix it and make it game wide. This was a bad attempt at fixing the fact that our shooting is for the most part irrelevant. 6+++ is not worth 1pt per model no matter how much you want it to be. A Painboy does the exact same thing and costs 53pts (would be 40 if they would let us not take a damn PK on him) and he can easily spread across 2-3 mobs of boyz without a problem, which would be a saving of 7pts on 2 mobz and 37 on 3. Not to mention the added benefits like healing characters and not being to bad in CC. So no, it is not worth 1ppm.

What happens to other factions is completely relevant since we have to weigh our army vs theirs. If no other army saw a major increase in cost to troops (17% is a pretty big increase) then why would ours be the only one? You can't say because of special klan rules or because strats or psychic powers because every other factions had the same treatment.

And yeah, i tend to disregard the development teams playtesters. Look at the wonderful examples of "Balance" they have given us in the past. Stompa costs almost 3 times what a knight costs but is only as effective as 1, maybe 1.5. Our list of unplayable units in 8th is astounding, in 7th we had unarguably a bottom tier army, they gave us a codex and 2 supplements and still couldn't fix the balance issue. Hell, they made Knights and Scat bikes a thing but couldn't figure out that Orkz needed a boost. I could keep going on and cover a number of other things the supposed "playtesters" took a look at but I doubt it would matter. The fact is that the playtesters literally told us the Stompa was going to be great in 8th index Orkz, It is unarguably the worst unit in our codex.

The boosts from other elements of the codex shouldn't even matter when you are pricing boyz. Boyz are almost perfect where they are, adding in those klan buffs and what not and they are perfect at 6ppm. The fact that Trukkz need to be half the price shouldn't justify increasing the cost of those boyz unless you likewise want to give boyz another increase in durability or damage output. I'll gladly agree to 7ppm if they give us a 5+ Save instead of making a model that loses 40-60 a turn more expensive.

I don't know why people keep saying that no basic infantry troop saw a point change to pay for their access to subfaction bonuses when their codex dropped.

Most of them did! Only they dropped in price instead of going up