Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So don’t use it,

Jobs a good’un.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So don’t use it,

Jobs a good’un.

Yeah, depending on my army setup and matchup I'd consider throwing it on a unit of 30 da jump boyz or 20 boyz in a battlewagon just to increase their ability to tie things up and be obnoxious. Any situation where I know I'm getting my boyz into melee and I have a big enough unit to justify it.

If Da Jump stays the same as its current incarnation, it's going to be a heck of a tool in the Evil Sunz arsenal - re-rollable 8 on 2d6 is way more reliable than re-rollable 9.

I am betting the grappling hook on the trike boss is attached to a unique stratagem that will let him add a bonus to charging the target or drag them to him or something Probably use it if you get a hit for a CP or something, could even do mortal wounds. Who knows, but seems like the perfect fit for a strat.

I believe someone mentioned the trike had a stratagem for the grappling hook to cause mortal wounds when falling back from melee, dragging some helpless mook behind the trike I imagine.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I am betting the grappling hook on the trike boss is attached to a unique stratagem that will let him add a bonus to charging the target or drag them to him or something Probably use it if you get a hit for a CP or something, could even do mortal wounds. Who knows, but seems like the perfect fit for a strat.

I bet you a shiny nickel that a strat like this exists, and it's

"spend CP.

Now, IF YOU HIT with the grapplin' klaw, get a benefit!"

if they actually give us stratagems worth using, yes that bugs me.
CP is for the most part pointless atm because we can only reroll 1 die per phase and 2cp to fight next is situational as gak. I often went games w/o even using my CP lol.

Probably going to be burning a lot of CP on the Ramming Speed strat lol...

As suspected no (playable) 'ard boyz. No kannons/lobbaz/zzap gunz. Everything I prophesized (and feared) is coming true.

Sigh

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/18/18th-oct-building-a-speed-freeks-armygw-homepage-post-2/

New article up on the community page

They say the list comes up to about 2000 points, PL so that checks out. Maybe there's a way to extrapolate the worth of some of the units by it still though?

A Trukk is 3PL instead of 5 from the index, that's a nice start
Nobz 7PL instead of 11
Nob with banner is the same
Warbikers are 4PL instead of 5
The Morkanaut is 15PL down from 18
Big Mek down to 4PL from 5
Boyz are 4PL down from 5 (don't know what's up with this)
The Kustom Boosta-blasta, Boomdakka Snazzwagon, Megatrakka Scrapjet are 5PL
The Shokkjump Dragsta & Deffkilla Wartrike are 6 PL
The Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy is 7PL (WHAT the hell GW?)

PiñaColada wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/18/18th-oct-building-a-speed-freeks-armygw-homepage-post-2/

New article up on the community page

They say the list comes up to about 2000 points, PL so that checks out. Maybe there's a way to extrapolate the worth of some of the units by it still though?

A Trukk is 3PL instead of 5 from the index, that's a nice start

Good news about the Trukks!

PiñaColada wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/18/18th-oct-building-a-speed-freeks-armygw-homepage-post-2/

New article up on the community page

They say the list comes up to about 2000 points, PL so that checks out. Maybe there's a way to extrapolate the worth of some of the units by it still though?

A Trukk is 3PL instead of 5 from the index, that's a nice start
Nobz 7PL instead of 11
Warbikers are 4PL instead of 5
The Kustom Boosta-blasta, Boomdakka Snazzwagon, Megatrakka Scrapjet are 5PL
The Shokkjump Dragsta & Deffkilla Wartrike are 6 PL
The Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy is 7PL (WHAT the hell GW?)

Hopefully this means Nobz got a significant points decrease and I can run my 10 man squad that's been gathering dust. Same for the warbikes but only going down 1PL might not be enough.

 DrGiggles wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/18/18th-oct-building-a-speed-freeks-armygw-homepage-post-2/

New article up on the community page

They say the list comes up to about 2000 points, PL so that checks out. Maybe there's a way to extrapolate the worth of some of the units by it still though?

A Trukk is 3PL instead of 5 from the index, that's a nice start
Nobz 7PL instead of 11
Warbikers are 4PL instead of 5
The Kustom Boosta-blasta, Boomdakka Snazzwagon, Megatrakka Scrapjet are 5PL
The Shokkjump Dragsta & Deffkilla Wartrike are 6 PL
The Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy is 7PL (WHAT the hell GW?)

Hopefully this means Nobz got a significant points decrease and I can run my 10 man squad that's been gathering dust. Same for the warbikes but only going down 1PL might not be enough.

I mean, not that I dare hope the jump is this big, but if the warbikes goes from 81points (basically exactly 4PL) to 60 points I'd be really happy. 60 points would translate to 3PL, although this could also mean 70-ish points, given how big the intervals are

Edit: I misread my own post haha. Disregard this whole statement

Ork PLs were already messed up so them dropping it doesn't really mean points were decreased.

I think you guys dissing the trike klaw are missing the whole fact that -1 to hit was not mentioned.

That means hitting on 2's. Then reroll to wound at strength 7 with 5 attacks.

So who benefits from the 5+ Ard Boyz Stratagem the most?

I think some camouflage painted Blood Axes would look pretty cool. But... I also think Orks of all Clans look really good.

Stormboyz i'd say:
big unit and the one most likely to get bodies into CTC where a better save is more useful, vs shooting you should already be using KFF and pain boyz

 TedNugent wrote:
I think you guys dissing the trike klaw are missing the whole fact that -1 to hit was not mentioned.

That means hitting on 2's. Then reroll to wound at strength 7 with 5 attacks.

I don't get the complaints either. Mathmatically the trike claw is better then a PK in everything but AP. You hit on 2's rather then 3's off the bat but also S7 rerolling to wound is better against everything except t8+ at which point it does .555 wounds instead of .666 wounds per hit, key word meaning per hit where the trike claw will have more so even then it comes out ahead still. So yea it is better against everything. It also does a steady 2 damage rather then d3 which is also much better. D3 often gets hosed when you min damage a target like primaris then max damage the following roll resulting in 1 dead guy where the trike claw would just kill two.

 Latro_ wrote:
Stormboyz i'd say:
big unit and the one most likely to get bodies into CTC where a better save is more useful, vs shooting you should already be using KFF and pain boyz

Wow hadn't even considered it in Storm boyz....

If I could get ahold of 30 rokkit packs (3rd party or scratch built) that could be waaaaaghsome! I'm sure there's a 3rs party bits site that has rockets or missiles that would fit the bill.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
I think you guys dissing the trike klaw are missing the whole fact that -1 to hit was not mentioned.

That means hitting on 2's. Then reroll to wound at strength 7 with 5 attacks.

I don't get the complaints either. Mathmatically the trike claw is better then a PK in everything but AP. You hit on 2's rather then 3's off the bat but also S7 rerolling to wound is better against everything except t8+ at which point it does .555 wounds instead of .666 wounds per hit, key word meaning per hit where the trike claw will have more so even then it comes out ahead still. So yea it is better against everything. It also does a steady 2 damage rather then d3 which is also much better. D3 often gets hosed when you min damage a target like primaris then max damage the following roll resulting in 1 dead guy where the trike claw would just kill two.

Well for me at least, I had hoped we'd get something that was better than a current power klaw warboss against T8, with the prevalence of knights and our current predicament against them. I think the weapon is extremely solid, but I had hoped for a bit more oomph against T8. But with the rumoured warlord traits and possible relics that might just sort itself out

 Yodhrin wrote:

 The Phazer wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Now, are my eyes deceiving me, or do the krew on the new vehicles look a bit heftier than normal Boys, a bit closer to Nob size?

I imagine we'll see scale creep on all new Ork models to try and make them look less short next to Primaris marines. At least you can argue that the natural variation between Orks should generally favour those with the best toys like buggies.

Eh, for me it's actually a good thing, I collect small-scale games these days and have been using Nobs as the basis for my Boys for a while now(regular Boys look a tad daft next to truescale Marines). Using these in GorkaMorka will be an expensive prospect though, since I convert up on-foot versions of all vehicle crew using the same components o_0

For me is the opposite, I like the goofyness of boyz. For me the peak of boyz are bikers, stormboyz and loota/burnas. I love how the nobz feel really different, not only in size.
Said this, the new orks don;t look bad, I just prefer goofier/smaller ones. I hate the scale creep.
But I am painting few models for a 3rd party now so whatever. The priority is to ork players, I hope they enjoy the new models.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
2cp to make a boyz unit 5+ save...really?
'Ard Boyz has always been a 4+....wtf....waste of cp...

We'll see how it plays out. 210 points + 2 CP for 30 boyz at 5+, compared to (7th ed) 300 points for 30 boyz at 4+.

The last game I played had 20CP, and I never got below 8 during the game (I forgot a few chances to reroll, but still.)

The question I have now is it worth 6CP to have 90 of them, or even 8 to get 120. A full brigade of 180 4+ blood axes, backed up by painboyz, would be an interesting test. Not sure the opponent would like it so much.

So, Warhammer community built a sample speed freeks army by power level, and big meks, boyz, warbikers, nobz, morkanauts, and trukks are all getting cheaper. Nob with waaagh banner stayed the same. Promising that we're getting substantial points cuts.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/18/18th-oct-building-a-speed-freeks-armygw-homepage-post-2/?fbclid=IwAR34DkBHEC4RtiS7N85vUgNDMBMg-1iGuCZrs022TdVg5uS9dIVFTdv97Cs

PiñaColada wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
I think you guys dissing the trike klaw are missing the whole fact that -1 to hit was not mentioned.

That means hitting on 2's. Then reroll to wound at strength 7 with 5 attacks.

I don't get the complaints either. Mathmatically the trike claw is better then a PK in everything but AP. You hit on 2's rather then 3's off the bat but also S7 rerolling to wound is better against everything except t8+ at which point it does .555 wounds instead of .666 wounds per hit, key word meaning per hit where the trike claw will have more so even then it comes out ahead still. So yea it is better against everything. It also does a steady 2 damage rather then d3 which is also much better. D3 often gets hosed when you min damage a target like primaris then max damage the following roll resulting in 1 dead guy where the trike claw would just kill two.

Well for me at least, I had hoped we'd get something that was better than a current power klaw warboss against T8, with the prevalence of knights and our current predicament against them. I think the weapon is extremely solid, but I had hoped for a bit more oomph against T8. But with the rumoured warlord traits and possible relics that might just sort itself out

He is better then a PK warboss though, he is better against everything but T8 where they are level due to AP being higher on the PK but the trike claw hitting more often to compensate. So overall he is doing more against more targets. Also he has twin melta guns, something the old biker boss never dreamed of. Answer to IK is going to be mechguns, tank bustas, the formula one buggy and Stompas.

@PinaColada, thanks for doing the comparison, take an exalt.

The trike is worth it just for the speed waaagh! alone. Even a battlewagon has a decent chance to make a first turn with the ramming stratagem, and our dreadmob players finally got the HQ the deserved - nauts, deff dreads and kanz will have no problems getting into combat turn 2.

I hope we have a decent answer to T8 vehicles though, none of the buggies can do that.

It's the gearcheck any list must pass to be able to compete in tournaments due to imperial knights and tank columns, and being able to crack heavy armored targets has always been a major weakness for orks.

tneva82 wrote:
Don't think orks are supposed to tower over space marines though...

Yeah, ork boyz are supposed to be about the same height as a regular human when they're all stooped over (which is proper orky posture) so a Space Marine should be about as tall as a Nob (although not as bulky).

I hope they use the Primaris reset to put an end to scale creep.

If the drop in power is reflected by an equivalent drop in points, the only way I can see Nob units not being great (and the rumours say they are rubbish) is if they lost a lot of options. I was actually surprised that we have been allowed to give them both a melee upgrade and a shooty one so far, since the models only allow one or the other. I wouldn't count on being able to do that with the codex.

Also, I'm very curious about what is going to be allowed on biker nobz and boss nobz in boyz units. I've found that a kombi-skorcha can be quite helpful for a unit of choppa boyz and have been considering building some kombi-skorcha bikes too. I suspect that will not be allowed in the codex though.

Keep in mind that all wargear options from the index are fair game, until GW or a big tournaments organizer puts an end to that.

I have yet to see an eldar autarch without the Banshee Mask from the index.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
If the drop in power is reflected by an equivalent drop in points, the only way I can see Nob units not being great (and the rumours say they are rubbish) is if they lost a lot of options. I was actually surprised that we have been allowed to give them both a melee upgrade and a shooty one so far, since the models only allow one or the other. I wouldn't count on being able to do that with the codex.

Also, I'm very curious about what is going to be allowed on biker nobz and boss nobz in boyz units. I've found that a kombi-skorcha can be quite helpful for a unit of choppa boyz and have been considering building some kombi-skorcha bikes too. I suspect that will not be allowed in the codex though.

I think they fixed the ammo runt exploit, so the guys reading it think they suck now. It was obviously flawed and not in line with this edition to have tons of super cheapo ablaitive wounds hiding in an elite unit ready to die in vehicle explosions or soak quality incoming attacks. So yea, for folks who were used to having multiple runts per guy it is worse, but the nobs themselves may not have changed.

Judging from the flash git rumor, they probably just limited it to the amount of ammo runts that are actually in the box, with no further thought.

Which means one runt per 5 instead of one per nob.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
if they actually give us stratagems worth using, yes that bugs me.
CP is for the most part pointless atm because we can only reroll 1 die per phase and 2cp to fight next is situational as gak. I often went games w/o even using my CP lol.

Probably going to be burning a lot of CP on the Ramming Speed strat lol...

Do you play an army without a Codex? Because I use CP with my T'au like a narcotic.

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
2cp to make a boyz unit 5+ save...really?
'Ard Boyz has always been a 4+....wtf....waste of cp...

We'll see how it plays out. 210 points + 2 CP for 30 boyz at 5+, compared to (7th ed) 300 points for 30 boyz at 4+.

The last game I played had 20CP, and I never got below 8 during the game (I forgot a few chances to reroll, but still.)

The question I have now is it worth 6CP to have 90 of them, or even 8 to get 120. A full brigade of 180 4+ blood axes, backed up by painboyz, would be an interesting test. Not sure the opponent would like it so much.

what the gak? 20cp? how on earth did you do that with a decent list?
Or was it just multiple battalions with boyz/warboss/painboyz? Im not a fan of green tide so i tend to not spam boyz.