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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Battlewagons also lose access to rokkits. You know, because there aren't any in the box and conversions are bad, mmmkay?

Index, dude.

It's still an asinine change and more of this no model/no rule nonsense.

And really, how long do you think those Index are going to stick around?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Battlewagons also lose access to rokkits. You know, because there aren't any in the box and conversions are bad, mmmkay?

Index, dude.

It's still an asinine change and more of this no model/no rule nonsense.

And really, how long do you think those Index are going to stick around?

Same can be said for the Big Gunz.

This "index Dude" argument is a no answer for me as well:

Those indexes will be gone in a year or so.

These models have been around for more than 20 years for some of them, some
of us own a trukk load of them and they may been
a favorite for some players as well model wise,
unrelated to the rules aspects of things.

How many mainstream space marine vehicules (or options) or
IG vehicules (or options) or HQ choices have been removed altogether
from the list by a new codex?

That may be is why some of us ork players are really annoyed...

Sounds like kommandos get that neat plus one to wound ability as well. For keeping the same points and getting a tankbomb two burnas and that new ability I think I know what people might use all those useless broken UP 7 point boys for now.

Indexes aren't going anywhere. It's tournaments that will enforce their use or not.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

geargutz wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Anything on Big Mek options? Its really odd how apparently there's no generic big mek, that its either with SAG or in mega armor. Can I at least swap out the SAG for a KFF?

nope, the foot slogging bigmek only has the sag (and im preety sure it is required to take it)
the megaarmored bigmek can do either a kff or a tellyport blasta...yay? (deathskull snipe warlord strait might make this usefull?)

That's stupid. Why can't I just take a big mek with no equipment? Is there any other unit where you don't have access to the base model, and they HAVE to take a heavy weapon option with no way to swap it out?
I'll wait for the codex to come out first, but if I really have to use the index to use a fething generic HQ choice then I'm going to annoy GW a lot.

Yeah, this frustrates the hell out of me too. Feels like a cynical cash grab. However, my old KFF big mek, will just have a Kustom Deflektor which also powers the gubbins on his axe, but saps his speed a little...

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Indexes aren't going anywhere.

Why would they keep them in print once everyone has their 'Dex?

It's like saying you can pick and choose what points values to use from whichever Chapter Approved you like.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Indexes aren't going anywhere.

Why would they keep them in print once everyone has their 'Dex?

It's like saying you can pick and choose what points values to use from whichever Chapter Approved you like.

Digital costs nothing and these are paperback so not a huge need to order beforehand.

It's not like saying that at all.

The index can stick around for casual play, but it needs to die for matched play and it sounds like lots of people are keen to make that happen quickly.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Indexes aren't going anywhere.

Why would they keep them in print once everyone has their 'Dex?

It's like saying you can pick and choose what points values to use from whichever Chapter Approved you like.

It's called "greed".

Why settle for seiling 1 book per player when you can sell 2.

Well they should release a "legacy" index with the missing
stuff in it if putting it in the codex was that difficult
and charge whatever cost they want for them.
FW did the same with older stuff (not all of them but still), for free.

As a consumer I feel annoyed I can not play anymore a bunch of model
I spend money and time to build, paint, just to make room for the newest items.

I was ready to crush some money on this release, but now they axed, big gunz,
(regular) buggies, mek etc... I will probably reconsider it.

The Indices were created as a 'get you by' style book because 8th Ed doesn't have a common rules base with the previous edition, so they had to release lists for everything as the old Codices would not work. They're temporary by design.

The idea that they'd keep them around once all the Codices are done is silly.

GW is greedy with everything aimed to make money even to expense of balance as can be seen as all their rule changes are aimed just to change what sells. Thus I find idea that they automatically reduce books players have to buy silly.

 lolman1c wrote:
So... can grots not get into vechiles anymore? In addition, if you bring a grot oiler does he have a grot keyword and also mean your bigmek can't go into the vechile because the grot isn't part of the same Kulture? Would be great if orks could just enter vechiles regardless of clans... then you could have evil sunz transportation with goff boyz.

Grots have the <CLAN> keyword. Battlewagons can transport up 12/20 <CLAN> infantry models. This is visible in strikingscorpions video, so we're all good on that front.

Still doesn't look like my longshot wish of 2 grots per transport slot came to fruition though. Just let me jam-pack 'em GW.

PiñaColada wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
So... can grots not get into vechiles anymore? In addition, if you bring a grot oiler does he have a grot keyword and also mean your bigmek can't go into the vechile because the grot isn't part of the same Kulture? Would be great if orks could just enter vechiles regardless of clans... then you could have evil sunz transportation with goff boyz.

Grots have the <CLAN> keyword. Battlewagons can transport up 12/20 <CLAN> infantry models. This is visible in strikingscorpions video, so we're all good on that front.

Still doesn't look like my longshot wish of 2 grots per transport slot came to fruition though. Just let me jam-pack 'em GW.

What? They changed transport rule as well for orks? So orks are now worse than IG in terms of transport things? Used to be just infantry regardless of clan. Darn. IG can do it. Why can't orks :(

tneva82 wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
So... can grots not get into vechiles anymore? In addition, if you bring a grot oiler does he have a grot keyword and also mean your bigmek can't go into the vechile because the grot isn't part of the same Kulture? Would be great if orks could just enter vechiles regardless of clans... then you could have evil sunz transportation with goff boyz.

Grots have the <CLAN> keyword. Battlewagons can transport up 12/20 <CLAN> infantry models. This is visible in strikingscorpions video, so we're all good on that front.

Still doesn't look like my longshot wish of 2 grots per transport slot came to fruition though. Just let me jam-pack 'em GW.

What? They changed transport rule as well for orks? So orks are now worse than IG in terms of transport things? Used to be just infantry regardless of clan. Darn. IG can do it. Why can't orks :(

Considering the Orks codex was probably written pretty much alongside CA 2019 most likely I would assume that this is merely telling of a change everyone will get when CA 2019 drops. If not, then it's weird but I gotta be honest, until recently this is how I thought it worked already.

PiñaColada wrote:

Considering the Orks codex was probably written pretty much alongside CA 2019 most likely I would assume that this is merely telling of a change everyone will get when CA 2019 drops. If not, then it's weird but I gotta be honest, until recently this is how I thought it worked already.

allies is probably the worst thing this edition. ill take the old one any day if it meant we didnt have to put up with every imperial faction sucking cp from the guard.

tractor cannon seems a bit of a no brainer now then...

auto hits everything, d6 dmg... thanks i'll have 5

 davou wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Is there any other unit where you don't have access to the base model, and they HAVE to take a heavy weapon option with no way to swap it out?

Devastators, noisemarines, broadsides?

Oh, you mean Tactical Marines, Chaos Marines and Crisis Suits? Because those are more or less the generic versions of those models. And besides, they aren't called "Tactical Marines with Heavy Weapons", "Chaos Marines with Sonic weapons" and "Crisis Suits with Heavy Weapons" now are they? Thus implying they are something a little special compared to the generic type.
Does it not strike you as odd that your options are "Big Mek in Mega Armor" and "Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun"? Why not just big mek? You mean to tell me that everything single Big Mek now wears mega armor or uses a SAG? That's oddly specific.
Hell, they have a Mek model that's sold separately. Why can't one use that as a Big Mek? Orks are supposed to be the conversion and kitbash army.

tneva82 wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
So... can grots not get into vechiles anymore? In addition, if you bring a grot oiler does he have a grot keyword and also mean your bigmek can't go into the vechile because the grot isn't part of the same Kulture? Would be great if orks could just enter vechiles regardless of clans... then you could have evil sunz transportation with goff boyz.

Grots have the <CLAN> keyword. Battlewagons can transport up 12/20 <CLAN> infantry models. This is visible in strikingscorpions video, so we're all good on that front.

Still doesn't look like my longshot wish of 2 grots per transport slot came to fruition though. Just let me jam-pack 'em GW.

What? They changed transport rule as well for orks? So orks are now worse than IG in terms of transport things? Used to be just infantry regardless of clan. Darn. IG can do it. Why can't orks :(

Because all the factions that have that have non subfaction keyword units in the codex. Ig have tempestus and a bunch of others, drukhari have mercenaries.

 Latro_ wrote:
tractor cannon seems a bit of a no brainer now then...

auto hits everything, d6 dmg... thanks i'll have 5

Yep. I expect either lots of remodeling of KMK's to traktor kannons(if they werent' magnetized) or lots of purchaces(just as planned). Those things topled KMK.

And if you face DE regularly...Frankly I don't CARE if they are competive or not but they are custom made to blow those triple damned venoms with 3 splinter cannons of reroll to hit hell with -1 to hit, 5++ and in effect invulnerability to h2h. Takes in average 2 to destroy one in average, any hit past inv save has 30% chance of one shotting one which then causes wound to nearby ones which increases odds of one shotting to 55%...

DIE DIE DIE! Even if those suck against anything else if they are good vs dark eldar I don't care.

Too bad even cheapest I can get is 28e per gun :-/ 168e for 6...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
So... can grots not get into vechiles anymore? In addition, if you bring a grot oiler does he have a grot keyword and also mean your bigmek can't go into the vechile because the grot isn't part of the same Kulture? Would be great if orks could just enter vechiles regardless of clans... then you could have evil sunz transportation with goff boyz.

Grots have the <CLAN> keyword. Battlewagons can transport up 12/20 <CLAN> infantry models. This is visible in strikingscorpions video, so we're all good on that front.

Still doesn't look like my longshot wish of 2 grots per transport slot came to fruition though. Just let me jam-pack 'em GW.

What? They changed transport rule as well for orks? So orks are now worse than IG in terms of transport things? Used to be just infantry regardless of clan. Darn. IG can do it. Why can't orks :(

Because all the factions that have that have non subfaction keyword units in the codex. Ig have tempestus and a bunch of others, drukhari have mercenaries.

And IG transports can transport cadians and catachans at will. Why orks transporting different clans would be so bad? Allowing or disallowing it isn't related to non-subfaction units.

How many wounds do Venoms have? We don't have a DE player in our FLGS.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
How many wounds do Venoms have? We don't have a DE player in our FLGS.

6. So aiming for 6 with 2d6 pick highest=30.5% odds. If one blows it's 1 wound to nearby venoms so then 5+ on 2d6 pick highest...Ooolala! Burn venoms BURN! Even if I lose vs others as long as those venoms crash and burn I'm happy!

(yeah I hate them )

 lolman1c wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
"GW is learning from past mistakes" as we're on the 3rd to last codex with only 2 more to go... yes... I see now how this is a good thing for 40k. XD If only 40k players learnt from GW's past mistakes. We have 30+ years of evidence for what GW is capable of.

So quit the hobby?

It's not just a game... It's a community. And I'm the ork player of the community, I would let them down...

but no seriously I hate it when people say "well then just quit" because that doesn't solve anything. The game would be dead if this happened. In addition, it is a community. If I left I would seriously lose like 70% of all my friends. This is like saying "if you don't like my negative comments then just leave the forums!"... why should you? You have some enjoyable aspect that keep you here but you also have some criticisms against people you don;t agree with. Should it mean you give it all up?

I sincerely hope the losing your friends thing isn’t true, as they wouldn’t be a good friend if they blanked you because you didn’t play..
But I get the point I *think* you’re trying to make.
(And I agree, about the whole community thing, for sure).

Either way this thread has way too much bickering and one liners at each other, it’s exhausting.


On the Orks;
Well actually most of the stuff I have has gone down so that’s great (though I was never about optimal, more just doing the things l like model wise and such)

tneva82 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
How many wounds do Venoms have? We don't have a DE player in our FLGS.

6. So aiming for 6 with 2d6 pick highest=30.5% odds. If one blows it's 1 wound to nearby venoms so then 5+ on 2d6 pick highest...Ooolala! Burn venoms BURN! Even if I lose vs others as long as those venoms crash and burn I'm happy!

(yeah I hate them )

That does sound fantastic.
At least GW is finally adding anti-air options into their books.
If only they didn't take away the Big Mek.
I don't mind losing big guns. It sucks, but those were superceded by Mek Gunz. The Big Gunz role has been taken, so having both options in a codex would be redundant. I can handle that.
Its the fact that you no longer have a generic HQ option you can play around with and is stuck with 2 set models that irks me, because Orks somehow forgot that their Meks don't have to wear mega armor or heave around a SAG

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

That does sound fantastic.
At least GW is finally adding anti-air options into their books.
If only they didn't take away the Big Mek.
I don't mind losing big guns. It sucks, but those were superceded by Mek Gunz. The Big Gunz role has been taken, so having both options in a codex would be redundant. I can handle that.
Its the fact that you no longer have a generic HQ option you can play around with and is stuck with 2 set models that irks me, because Orks somehow forgot that their Meks don't have to wear mega armor or heave around a SAG.

this is what hurts the most. my 2 warlords for my army are the megawarboss and the bikebigmek with sag. i have alot of history with them....and now its "just use the index" for them. sigh.

Random bit of interesting synergy I noticed:

Almost all our units that are not gretchin/flashgits but have above BS5+ do so by means of adding to hit (Dragsta gets +2 to hit with its main gun for example, Dakkajet +1 to hit vs flyers, Wazbomb +1 with its smasha gun)

That doesn't affect dakkadakkadakka (natural hit roll of 6) but the More Dakka stratagem makes it go off on a 5+....which would then become a 3+ if you're a Shokkjump Dragsta.

The official "goodnight sweet prince" count for the codex for me is:

-Big Mek with Kustom Mega Blasta and Choppa, my very first ork model (I'll just run him as a non-wysiwyg mek I suppose)
-Big Mek with KFF (He'll just have VERY EFFECTIVE T-shirt. Got some of that Kanye West egyptian weave cotton I guess.)
-Warboss on Bike (in my nostradamus-like trance, I built this model out of a wartrakk to be a near exactly perfect WYSIWYG trikeboss, so he'll be my second trike if they're so good I need 2)
-4 official GW sculpt big gunz (my scratchbuilds are all big enough to pass for mek gunz but these little guys will have to go)
-Mega-armor warboss made from the MANz kit (he'll be a boss nob I guess)

the_scotsman wrote:
Random bit of interesting synergy I noticed:

Almost all our units that are not gretchin/flashgits but have above BS5+ do so by means of adding to hit (Dragsta gets +2 to hit with its main gun for example, Dakkajet +1 to hit vs flyers, Wazbomb +1 with its smasha gun)

That doesn't affect dakkadakkadakka (natural hit roll of 6) but the More Dakka stratagem makes it go off on a 5+....which would then become a 3+ if you're a Shokkjump Dragsta.

Wait the more dakka strat doesn't specify unmodified hit rolls? That's going to get FAQed. Also wouldn't that mean that a group of tankbustas shooting at a supersonic flyer still only get extra hits on 6's? Sure they always hit on 5's with the strat but if dakkadakkadakka triggers on modifiable 5's those would still be able to worsen to a 6, no?

the_scotsman wrote:
That doesn't affect dakkadakkadakka (natural hit roll of 6) but the More Dakka stratagem makes it go off on a 5+....which would then become a 3+ if you're a Shokkjump Dragsta.

Even though I expect this to be nerfed quickly, it's a wonderful thing to read haha. It almost doubles the Dragsta's damage output... Which was already good to begin with. And if you're playing Deathskulls it triples it... Gosh.

I wouldn't use More Dakka on single models like Dragstas anyway.

PiñaColada wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Random bit of interesting synergy I noticed:

Almost all our units that are not gretchin/flashgits but have above BS5+ do so by means of adding to hit (Dragsta gets +2 to hit with its main gun for example, Dakkajet +1 to hit vs flyers, Wazbomb +1 with its smasha gun)

That doesn't affect dakkadakkadakka (natural hit roll of 6) but the More Dakka stratagem makes it go off on a 5+....which would then become a 3+ if you're a Shokkjump Dragsta.

Wait the more dakka strat doesn't specify unmodified hit rolls? That's going to get FAQed. Also wouldn't that mean that a group of tankbustas shooting at a supersonic flyer still only get extra hits on 6's? Sure they always hit on 5's with the strat but if dakkadakkadakka triggers on modifiable 5's those would still be able to worsen to a 6, no?

Right.

as it's currently written, More Dakka causes unmodified hit rolls of 5 and 6 to always hit, and causes DakkaDakkaDakka to trigger on a 5+.

I guess if I'm bending my brain to figure out that RAW, if an unmodified hit roll of 5 always hits, then that is still a hit roll of 5, which would still trigger dakkadakkadakka, but then if you're using a Dragsta and a roll of 3 then gets MODIFIED to a five, then it'd trigger as well. But, for example, a dragsta shooting at a flyer that rolls a 3 would miss, and it wouldn't modify high enough to be a five, so it wouldn't trigger DDD.

I guess it depends if "unmodified rolls of X always hit" means that the rolls are immune to modifiers entirely, like as soon as you roll a 5 you can't touch that number and it remains a 5, or if modifiers still apply, in which case you'd be gettign the benefits of the 5s hitting but not the improved DDD.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I wouldn't use More Dakka on single models like Dragstas anyway.

I mean, you wouldn't, but if it nearly doubled my damage output I might.

It'd also be pretty awesome if you're playing like Freebootas and have a big unit of flash gits with the freeboota kultur triggered turn up the dakka and hit on 3s dakka on 4s...

Well don't dakkajets get +1 to hit if they shoot all their guns at the same target? Then +1 from the strat, then moar dakka in case you really really wanted that flyer thing dead.