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Wait people got canned for the aos nuke? got some sauce for that?

 greyknight12 wrote:
There was a simple solution called “make them truescsle marines” but we had to butcher some fluff and make new bigger specialer marines.

They were stuck between a rock and a hard-place on this one. They learned from AoS that just outright squatting an army would lead to massive backlash. So, they chose what in my opinion is the "hybrid" approach, with a slow squat. It will take 5-7 years, but eventually Primaris will be the only models available for the marine line. The slow pace will make the transition a lot easier on the players and the company.

But, the other side now has the problem. People who want primaris only armies, have very little in the way of upgrades, units, characters and the like. So they complain.

It was a damned if you don't, damned if you do situation. And I have to say, personally I'd have much rather just had my old marines squatted, reduced to an index faction and replaced than to have this current cluster bomb of a problem.

All GW has to do is release a primaris only codex that is better than the current marine books and the market will do the rest.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
All GW has to do is release a primaris only codex that is better than the current marine books and the market will do the rest.

Totally agree.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
All GW has to do is release a primaris only codex that is better than the current marine books and the market will do the rest.

You know. Unless that's not what they're trying to do at all, and they want the new players drawn in by Primaris to expand their armies into the more customizable aspects of the chapter codexes.

Oh no, are they going to stop making Muppets IP now that Sesame Street exists?

Oh no, are they going to slowly phase out Legos with this new Duplo stuff?

what could these marketing teams poooooooossibly be doing here?

What makes you think that? No one really ever liked the baby marine figures.

There was a whole cult of people who played with "true scale" marines. Now we have primaris - it's like they corrected the problem. This is what marines always should have been.

 Xenomancers wrote:
What makes you think that? No one really ever liked the baby marine figures.

There was a whole cult of people who played with "true scale" marines. Now we have primaris - it's like they corrected the problem. This is what marines always should have been.

But is that the majority or the minority.

i mean i love true scale marines. i hate the gak poses of a lot of the older kits (and some of the new kits) but going based off of dakka dakka and a hand full of other "online" data isnt actually going to tell you much.

 Desubot wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
What makes you think that? No one really ever liked the baby marine figures.

There was a whole cult of people who played with "true scale" marines. Now we have primaris - it's like they corrected the problem. This is what marines always should have been.

But is that the majority or the minority.

i mean i love true scale marines. i hate the gak poses of a lot of the older kits (and some of the new kits) but going based off of dakka dakka and a hand full of other "online" data isnt actually going to tell you much.

youuu're not going to want to get into the idea of unbiased data sampling with Xeno. Remember, this is the "the opinions of my local group of players and the army makeup of our playgroup is more valuable to me than the opinions of top tournament players and the army makeup of aggregates of hundreds of competitive lists" guy.

If he says "no one really liked baby marines" just change that in your brain to "no one in my local group of players and especially myself never liked baby marines" and move on.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
All GW has to do is release a primaris only codex that is better than the current marine books and the market will do the rest.

Would need a TON more units and models to make this work.

Also wouldn't be ideal - there are a lot of sweet looking kits folks would hate to lose. I think we should encourage MORE integration, not less. Land Raiders and Stormravens finally letting their nuMarine brethren onboard is a good start.

Just need to consolidate and drop certain marine infantry options. There's so much power armour bloat in that codex.

A Primaris Marines codex could work, if GW added a few new Primaris units while also allowing Landraiders to transport Primaris Marines.
Could also allow GW some breathing space to create some new official chapters.

Currently a pure Primaris Marines force can be played, however it is somewhat lacking. Having said that I am not sure what it is missing, or what units need to be added. It seems to have all bases covered.

Solid troop choice. Check.
Heavy firepower unit. Check.
Close combat deep striking unit. Check.
Mobile firepower unit. Check.
Close assault unit. Check.
Good character synergy. Check.

All the parts seem there, but they don't work when taken as a pure force. I haven't tried the dreadnought or tank as the model looks truly awful.

I think the best way to play Primaris right now is Death Watch, as it allows for awesome unit mixing, makes good use of Special Ammunition and because they actually have Stratagems that apply to them, unlike CSM, which have very select few.

The issue is that Primaris really feel isolated in any book, aside DW, that they are in. Sad, really :/

the_scotsman wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:
All GW has to do is release a primaris only codex that is better than the current marine books and the market will do the rest.

You know. Unless that's not what they're trying to do at all, and they want the new players drawn in by Primaris to expand their armies into the more customizable aspects of the chapter codexes.

Oh no, are they going to stop making Muppets IP now that Sesame Street exists?

Oh no, are they going to slowly phase out Legos with this new Duplo stuff?

what could these marketing teams poooooooossibly be doing here?

Old marines were already an easy entry way. I'm a marine player through and through but I have no illusions that they are by design meant to be an easy army to assemble, paint and play. If they need to dumb that down even more to me that's just bleh. Not to mention the primaris fluff is gak and boring.

Personally, I think the Primaris lack of options is a better design than the extensive tables of model customization with minor point adjustments that have little impact at the scale the game is played. I really wish they'd simplify things down to concepts like "a power weapon" and let players decide if they want to model it as a sword, axe, lance, fist etc. Primaris seem designed more along this line, but they're still tied to a game in which you're buying rules model to model unfortunately.

 stonehorse wrote:
A Primaris Marines codex could work, if GW added a few new Primaris units while also allowing Landraiders to transport Primaris Marines.
Could also allow GW some breathing space to create some new official chapters.

Currently a pure Primaris Marines force can be played, however it is somewhat lacking. Having said that I am not sure what it is missing, or what units need to be added. It seems to have all bases covered.

Solid troop choice. Check.
Heavy firepower unit. Check.
Close combat deep striking unit. Check.
Mobile firepower unit. Check.
Close assault unit. Check.
Good character synergy. Check.

All the parts seem there, but they don't work when taken as a pure force. I haven't tried the dreadnought or tank as the model looks truly awful.

They are only like 3-4 kits away from being a playable as a stand alone force. They need some primaris infantry unit that is good at anti tank. Primaris unit with meltaguns similar to hellblasters would help. Also some sort of infantry unit with long range firepower, something with range greater than 36. Also more transport options (like a primaris razorback equivalent). And last some primaris unit that could go toe to toe with the heavy close combat units in the game. Something with an inv and melee weapons with good ap and more than one damage. Something akin to an assault terminator.

If you also release a primaris only codex, give their own strats. Like give reivers a strat that lets them double the range on the grenades or something. A range of relics that that can all be used by them, etc. At that point they would be very playable.

I really like the primaris, then again I always found the old marines to be very uninspiring. The primaris dreadnought and tank suffer from the problem that they are not as durable vs. shooting given their pt cost so they tend to get shot apart when I do field them.

Edit: The dread and replusor do preform really well when my opponent doesn't have lots of long range anti tank though.

If they were to get their own stand alone codex. id love to see

Vet kit melee shooty duel kit.
Melee based aggressor and inceptor kit
cheaper repulsive chassied transport without the top gun.
bikes

i think thats pretty much all they would need.

The fact that no has said primaris drop pod makes me sad. It's the iconic marine transport and the fact that they can't use them is just dumb.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
The fact that no has said primaris drop pod makes me sad. It's the iconic marine transport and the fact that they can't use them is just dumb.

Didn't think of that. Drop pods would be cool, if they weren't overpriced.

The fact that most of the older marine stuff is bad and that primaris and regular marines don't have any cross over to me is the greatest indicator that normal marines will be phased out eventually. GW seems to be going out of their way to keep the two separate and discourage sales of the older models. The only thing that makes me think they will be around for a while is that I don't see 30k getting squatted unless GW is going to dramatically cut back Forge Worlds production.

Do they really need a drop pod though? Inceptors and Reivers drop from low orbit (Deep strike) and everything else via Repulsors currently. Not that anyone would use them anyway as no one uses normal drop pods either.

How many options do people really need anyway? There are already weapons amongst them which are clearly better than the other so why add more pointless chaff than needed. I like the fact that Primaris are more dedicated units than generalists and each Primaris unit so far already has at least 2-3 different variations anyway. What more could you possibly need?

Reemule wrote:
I'm in general happy with Primaris.

I don't think Troops need to be changed with them.

I think Charecters should get more options, starting with Inceptor armor, Gravis armor, and options like Inceptor suit with Boltguantlet arms..

Or gravis suit with one arm of Boltguantlet, the other of Heavy bolt pistol from the Inceptor suits.

Yeah, I am fine with limited legion style option on squads, but the lack of character customisation is areal bummer.

I tend to believe that the 'old' SM range will be killed off, too. IMO, almost all the recent changes are in response to the Chapter House thing and GW finally hiring a lawyer who understands IP. Obviously I can't prove any of this, just my suspicions.

So long as 'Space Marine' is in use, GW are, arguably, vulnerable and prevention is better than cure. Hence Adeptus/Heretic Astartes, Primaris Marine. FWIW, most of the product descriptions on GW's website for Primaris products completely omit the phrase 'Space Marine'.

Banville wrote:

Reemule wrote:
I'm in general happy with Primaris.

I don't think Troops need to be changed with them.

I think Charecters should get more options, starting with Inceptor armor, Gravis armor, and options like Inceptor suit with Boltguantlet arms..

Or gravis suit with one arm of Boltguantlet, the other of Heavy bolt pistol from the Inceptor suits.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I think they're great models. I have a Company of them already. But I also have a full Company of Salamanders that I've painted and converted and lavished attention on for almost two decades. I would be very, very annoyed if they were suddenly invalidated. I would convert them rather than box them up and stick them in the attic.

At least I can still use my Bretonnians in Kings of War or 9th Age.

That's what I'm doing, all my grey hunters and bloodclaws, TWC etc. are Primaris kitbashed/converted. You an also use them as Primaris as well:

 Blood Hawk wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:
A Primaris Marines codex could work, if GW added a few new Primaris units while also allowing Landraiders to transport Primaris Marines.
Could also allow GW some breathing space to create some new official chapters.

Currently a pure Primaris Marines force can be played, however it is somewhat lacking. Having said that I am not sure what it is missing, or what units need to be added. It seems to have all bases covered.

Solid troop choice. Check.
Heavy firepower unit. Check.
Close combat deep striking unit. Check.
Mobile firepower unit. Check.
Close assault unit. Check.
Good character synergy. Check.

All the parts seem there, but they don't work when taken as a pure force. I haven't tried the dreadnought or tank as the model looks truly awful.

They are only like 3-4 kits away from being a playable as a stand alone force. They need some primaris infantry unit that is good at anti tank. Primaris unit with meltaguns similar to hellblasters would help. Also some sort of infantry unit with long range firepower, something with range greater than 36. Also more transport options (like a primaris razorback equivalent). And last some primaris unit that could go toe to toe with the heavy close combat units in the game. Something with an inv and melee weapons with good ap and more than one damage. Something akin to an assault terminator.

I disagree on the Razorback idea. The idea of the Razorback is a Rhino with less capacity but a bigger gun. Repulsors aren't an equivilent to a Rhino, which is basically a moving metal box with a tiny gun for the sake of having a gun. Repulsors on the other hand have more guns than a stormraven - Turret mounted Heavy Minigun or Lascannon, a twin Heavy Bolter or Lascannon, a Pintle-Mouted Heavy Stubber or Minigun, 2 stormbolters or frag launchers, an AA heavy stubber, missile pod, stormbolter or frag launcher, 2 more optional frag launchers, an optional co-axial heavy stubber, Power of the Machine spirit and -2 to enemy charge ranges. The only way you could "Razorback" a Repulsor would be to drop capacity down to 6 models and give it a pintle mounted Demolisher cannon and sponson mounted Hurricane Bolters.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Blood Hawk wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:
A Primaris Marines codex could work, if GW added a few new Primaris units while also allowing Landraiders to transport Primaris Marines.
Could also allow GW some breathing space to create some new official chapters.

Currently a pure Primaris Marines force can be played, however it is somewhat lacking. Having said that I am not sure what it is missing, or what units need to be added. It seems to have all bases covered.

Solid troop choice. Check.
Heavy firepower unit. Check.
Close combat deep striking unit. Check.
Mobile firepower unit. Check.
Close assault unit. Check.
Good character synergy. Check.

All the parts seem there, but they don't work when taken as a pure force. I haven't tried the dreadnought or tank as the model looks truly awful.

They are only like 3-4 kits away from being a playable as a stand alone force. They need some primaris infantry unit that is good at anti tank. Primaris unit with meltaguns similar to hellblasters would help. Also some sort of infantry unit with long range firepower, something with range greater than 36. Also more transport options (like a primaris razorback equivalent). And last some primaris unit that could go toe to toe with the heavy close combat units in the game. Something with an inv and melee weapons with good ap and more than one damage. Something akin to an assault terminator.

I disagree on the Razorback idea. The idea of the Razorback is a Rhino with less capacity but a bigger gun. Repulsors aren't an equivilent to a Rhino, which is basically a moving metal box with a tiny gun for the sake of having a gun. Repulsors on the other hand have more guns than a stormraven - Turret mounted Heavy Minigun or Lascannon, a twin Heavy Bolter or Lascannon, a Pintle-Mouted Heavy Stubber or Minigun, 2 stormbolters or frag launchers, an AA heavy stubber, missile pod, stormbolter or frag launcher, 2 more optional frag launchers, an optional co-axial heavy stubber, Power of the Machine spirit and -2 to enemy charge ranges. The only way you could "Razorback" a Repulsor would be to drop capacity down to 6 models and give it a pintle mounted Demolisher cannon and sponson mounted Hurricane Bolters.

Well if you dropped the weapons down, reduce the armour etc. you could make the repulser far more razorback than land raider, which is sorely needed. Plus I think his point it to give an equivalent to the razorback, it doesn't have to be repulsive at all.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Blood Hawk wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:
A Primaris Marines codex could work, if GW added a few new Primaris units while also allowing Landraiders to transport Primaris Marines.
Could also allow GW some breathing space to create some new official chapters.

Currently a pure Primaris Marines force can be played, however it is somewhat lacking. Having said that I am not sure what it is missing, or what units need to be added. It seems to have all bases covered.

Solid troop choice. Check.
Heavy firepower unit. Check.
Close combat deep striking unit. Check.
Mobile firepower unit. Check.
Close assault unit. Check.
Good character synergy. Check.

All the parts seem there, but they don't work when taken as a pure force. I haven't tried the dreadnought or tank as the model looks truly awful.

They are only like 3-4 kits away from being a playable as a stand alone force. They need some primaris infantry unit that is good at anti tank. Primaris unit with meltaguns similar to hellblasters would help. Also some sort of infantry unit with long range firepower, something with range greater than 36. Also more transport options (like a primaris razorback equivalent). And last some primaris unit that could go toe to toe with the heavy close combat units in the game. Something with an inv and melee weapons with good ap and more than one damage. Something akin to an assault terminator.

I disagree on the Razorback idea. The idea of the Razorback is a Rhino with less capacity but a bigger gun. Repulsors aren't an equivilent to a Rhino, which is basically a moving metal box with a tiny gun for the sake of having a gun. Repulsors on the other hand have more guns than a stormraven - Turret mounted Heavy Minigun or Lascannon, a twin Heavy Bolter or Lascannon, a Pintle-Mouted Heavy Stubber or Minigun, 2 stormbolters or frag launchers, an AA heavy stubber, missile pod, stormbolter or frag launcher, 2 more optional frag launchers, an optional co-axial heavy stubber, Power of the Machine spirit and -2 to enemy charge ranges. The only way you could "Razorback" a Repulsor would be to drop capacity down to 6 models and give it a pintle mounted Demolisher cannon and sponson mounted Hurricane Bolters.

Well if you dropped the weapons down, reduce the armour etc. you could make the repulser far more razorback than land raider, which is sorely needed. Plus I think his point it to give an equivalent to the razorback, it doesn't have to be repulsive at all.

My question then is why? Space Marines currently use Rhinos as their standard transport because their are much easier to make and repair than Land Raiders. If LRs were as common as Rhinos, everyone would use them. The Razorback is an adaption of the Rhino chassis, halfway between a Predator and a Rhino- some transport, some firepower. The Primaris don't have the same issue as Repulsors are new and can be made new. Why then reduce the number of weapons and armour when the current version already exists? There would be no niche or benefit to it.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Blood Hawk wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:
A Primaris Marines codex could work, if GW added a few new Primaris units while also allowing Landraiders to transport Primaris Marines.
Could also allow GW some breathing space to create some new official chapters.

Currently a pure Primaris Marines force can be played, however it is somewhat lacking. Having said that I am not sure what it is missing, or what units need to be added. It seems to have all bases covered.

Solid troop choice. Check.
Heavy firepower unit. Check.
Close combat deep striking unit. Check.
Mobile firepower unit. Check.
Close assault unit. Check.
Good character synergy. Check.

All the parts seem there, but they don't work when taken as a pure force. I haven't tried the dreadnought or tank as the model looks truly awful.

They are only like 3-4 kits away from being a playable as a stand alone force. They need some primaris infantry unit that is good at anti tank. Primaris unit with meltaguns similar to hellblasters would help. Also some sort of infantry unit with long range firepower, something with range greater than 36. Also more transport options (like a primaris razorback equivalent). And last some primaris unit that could go toe to toe with the heavy close combat units in the game. Something with an inv and melee weapons with good ap and more than one damage. Something akin to an assault terminator.

I disagree on the Razorback idea. The idea of the Razorback is a Rhino with less capacity but a bigger gun. Repulsors aren't an equivilent to a Rhino, which is basically a moving metal box with a tiny gun for the sake of having a gun. Repulsors on the other hand have more guns than a stormraven - Turret mounted Heavy Minigun or Lascannon, a twin Heavy Bolter or Lascannon, a Pintle-Mouted Heavy Stubber or Minigun, 2 stormbolters or frag launchers, an AA heavy stubber, missile pod, stormbolter or frag launcher, 2 more optional frag launchers, an optional co-axial heavy stubber, Power of the Machine spirit and -2 to enemy charge ranges. The only way you could "Razorback" a Repulsor would be to drop capacity down to 6 models and give it a pintle mounted Demolisher cannon and sponson mounted Hurricane Bolters.

Well if you dropped the weapons down, reduce the armour etc. you could make the repulser far more razorback than land raider, which is sorely needed. Plus I think his point it to give an equivalent to the razorback, it doesn't have to be repulsive at all.

My question then is why? Space Marines currently use Rhinos as their standard transport because their are much easier to make and repair than Land Raiders. If LRs were as common as Rhinos, everyone would use them. The Razorback is an adaption of the Rhino chassis, halfway between a Predator and a Rhino- some transport, some firepower. The Primaris don't have the same issue as Repulsors are new and can be made new. Why then reduce the number of weapons and armour when the current version already exists? There would be no niche or benefit to it.

Because only having a land raider priced transport is terrible for any army. You need cheap alternatives. Some people only play Primaris, so 'you can use a rhino' is not a good argument. Saying they should have a cheap transport is just biased, 'I don't collect them so they shouldn't get anything.' That's how you sound.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Blood Hawk wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:
A Primaris Marines codex could work, if GW added a few new Primaris units while also allowing Landraiders to transport Primaris Marines.
Could also allow GW some breathing space to create some new official chapters.

Currently a pure Primaris Marines force can be played, however it is somewhat lacking. Having said that I am not sure what it is missing, or what units need to be added. It seems to have all bases covered.

Solid troop choice. Check.
Heavy firepower unit. Check.
Close combat deep striking unit. Check.
Mobile firepower unit. Check.
Close assault unit. Check.
Good character synergy. Check.

All the parts seem there, but they don't work when taken as a pure force. I haven't tried the dreadnought or tank as the model looks truly awful.

They are only like 3-4 kits away from being a playable as a stand alone force. They need some primaris infantry unit that is good at anti tank. Primaris unit with meltaguns similar to hellblasters would help. Also some sort of infantry unit with long range firepower, something with range greater than 36. Also more transport options (like a primaris razorback equivalent). And last some primaris unit that could go toe to toe with the heavy close combat units in the game. Something with an inv and melee weapons with good ap and more than one damage. Something akin to an assault terminator.

I disagree on the Razorback idea. The idea of the Razorback is a Rhino with less capacity but a bigger gun. Repulsors aren't an equivilent to a Rhino, which is basically a moving metal box with a tiny gun for the sake of having a gun. Repulsors on the other hand have more guns than a stormraven - Turret mounted Heavy Minigun or Lascannon, a twin Heavy Bolter or Lascannon, a Pintle-Mouted Heavy Stubber or Minigun, 2 stormbolters or frag launchers, an AA heavy stubber, missile pod, stormbolter or frag launcher, 2 more optional frag launchers, an optional co-axial heavy stubber, Power of the Machine spirit and -2 to enemy charge ranges. The only way you could "Razorback" a Repulsor would be to drop capacity down to 6 models and give it a pintle mounted Demolisher cannon and sponson mounted Hurricane Bolters.

Well if you dropped the weapons down, reduce the armour etc. you could make the repulser far more razorback than land raider, which is sorely needed. Plus I think his point it to give an equivalent to the razorback, it doesn't have to be repulsive at all.

My question then is why? Space Marines currently use Rhinos as their standard transport because their are much easier to make and repair than Land Raiders. If LRs were as common as Rhinos, everyone would use them. The Razorback is an adaption of the Rhino chassis, halfway between a Predator and a Rhino- some transport, some firepower. The Primaris don't have the same issue as Repulsors are new and can be made new. Why then reduce the number of weapons and armour when the current version already exists? There would be no niche or benefit to it.

Because only having a land raider priced transport is terrible for any army. You need cheap alternatives. Some people only play Primaris, so 'you can use a rhino' is not a good argument. Saying they should have a cheap transport is just biased, 'I don't collect them so they shouldn't get anything.' That's how you sound.

I'm trying to think from a more logical and fluff based perspective than to fill a cheaper transport role in game. I'm not saying they shouldn't, I'm just saying I can't see a justification in terms of fluff or niche role for it, other than "Repulsors are expensive"

 Deadshot wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Blood Hawk wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:
A Primaris Marines codex could work, if GW added a few new Primaris units while also allowing Landraiders to transport Primaris Marines.
Could also allow GW some breathing space to create some new official chapters.

Currently a pure Primaris Marines force can be played, however it is somewhat lacking. Having said that I am not sure what it is missing, or what units need to be added. It seems to have all bases covered.

Solid troop choice. Check.
Heavy firepower unit. Check.
Close combat deep striking unit. Check.
Mobile firepower unit. Check.
Close assault unit. Check.
Good character synergy. Check.

All the parts seem there, but they don't work when taken as a pure force. I haven't tried the dreadnought or tank as the model looks truly awful.

They are only like 3-4 kits away from being a playable as a stand alone force. They need some primaris infantry unit that is good at anti tank. Primaris unit with meltaguns similar to hellblasters would help. Also some sort of infantry unit with long range firepower, something with range greater than 36. Also more transport options (like a primaris razorback equivalent). And last some primaris unit that could go toe to toe with the heavy close combat units in the game. Something with an inv and melee weapons with good ap and more than one damage. Something akin to an assault terminator.

I disagree on the Razorback idea. The idea of the Razorback is a Rhino with less capacity but a bigger gun. Repulsors aren't an equivilent to a Rhino, which is basically a moving metal box with a tiny gun for the sake of having a gun. Repulsors on the other hand have more guns than a stormraven - Turret mounted Heavy Minigun or Lascannon, a twin Heavy Bolter or Lascannon, a Pintle-Mouted Heavy Stubber or Minigun, 2 stormbolters or frag launchers, an AA heavy stubber, missile pod, stormbolter or frag launcher, 2 more optional frag launchers, an optional co-axial heavy stubber, Power of the Machine spirit and -2 to enemy charge ranges. The only way you could "Razorback" a Repulsor would be to drop capacity down to 6 models and give it a pintle mounted Demolisher cannon and sponson mounted Hurricane Bolters.

Well if you dropped the weapons down, reduce the armour etc. you could make the repulser far more razorback than land raider, which is sorely needed. Plus I think his point it to give an equivalent to the razorback, it doesn't have to be repulsive at all.

My question then is why? Space Marines currently use Rhinos as their standard transport because their are much easier to make and repair than Land Raiders. If LRs were as common as Rhinos, everyone would use them. The Razorback is an adaption of the Rhino chassis, halfway between a Predator and a Rhino- some transport, some firepower. The Primaris don't have the same issue as Repulsors are new and can be made new. Why then reduce the number of weapons and armour when the current version already exists? There would be no niche or benefit to it.

Because only having a land raider priced transport is terrible for any army. You need cheap alternatives. Some people only play Primaris, so 'you can use a rhino' is not a good argument. Saying they should have a cheap transport is just biased, 'I don't collect them so they shouldn't get anything.' That's how you sound.

I'm trying to think from a more logical and fluff based perspective than to fill a cheaper transport role in game. I'm not saying they shouldn't, I'm just saying I can't see a justification in terms of fluff or niche role for it, other than "Repulsors are expensive"

A fluff justification, yeah the rhino is a justification. In battle you need cheap transports not just for a battle but to travel and make contact between different companies, also for scouting missions, you don't want to use an expensive piece of kit, you'd rather have a lighter and faster vehicle. Also for transporting supplies, you aren't going to fill up a repulser with ammo to get the ammo from a to b. A repulser is state of the art, its valuable in what it does, only an idiot general would use it as an all purpose vehicle.

Right now, I’m pretty ok with the Primaris setup, though given the chance I would make the following additions –

Melee only version of the Inceptors – I’m thinking power sword or axe and heavy bolt pistol or twin claws.
Inceptor Armour HQ options.
Bolter weapon only Bike/Jetbike squad – no attack bike option.
Bike/Jetbike HQ options.

Oh, and the legendary Overlord flyer (which will be completely priced out of normal play… …)

Beyond that I like that the Primaris are focused and the standard Marines are diverse. Standard tanks and flyers should remain in the hands of normal Marines, along with all the standard weapon choices. If I want a melta or a lascannon I auto think standard Marine, not, “I wish Primaris could have these”.

Maybe they’ll get phased out eventually, but, I think it would require an “end times” or Heresy style event which would involve the fluff destruction of the normal Marines to make it so. And I don’t think that is planned for anytime soon.

[code]

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Blood Hawk wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:
A Primaris Marines codex could work, if GW added a few new Primaris units while also allowing Landraiders to transport Primaris Marines.
Could also allow GW some breathing space to create some new official chapters.

Currently a pure Primaris Marines force can be played, however it is somewhat lacking. Having said that I am not sure what it is missing, or what units need to be added. It seems to have all bases covered.

Solid troop choice. Check.
Heavy firepower unit. Check.
Close combat deep striking unit. Check.
Mobile firepower unit. Check.
Close assault unit. Check.
Good character synergy. Check.

All the parts seem there, but they don't work when taken as a pure force. I haven't tried the dreadnought or tank as the model looks truly awful.

They are only like 3-4 kits away from being a playable as a stand alone force. They need some primaris infantry unit that is good at anti tank. Primaris unit with meltaguns similar to hellblasters would help. Also some sort of infantry unit with long range firepower, something with range greater than 36. Also more transport options (like a primaris razorback equivalent). And last some primaris unit that could go toe to toe with the heavy close combat units in the game. Something with an inv and melee weapons with good ap and more than one damage. Something akin to an assault terminator.

I disagree on the Razorback idea. The idea of the Razorback is a Rhino with less capacity but a bigger gun. Repulsors aren't an equivilent to a Rhino, which is basically a moving metal box with a tiny gun for the sake of having a gun. Repulsors on the other hand have more guns than a stormraven - Turret mounted Heavy Minigun or Lascannon, a twin Heavy Bolter or Lascannon, a Pintle-Mouted Heavy Stubber or Minigun, 2 stormbolters or frag launchers, an AA heavy stubber, missile pod, stormbolter or frag launcher, 2 more optional frag launchers, an optional co-axial heavy stubber, Power of the Machine spirit and -2 to enemy charge ranges. The only way you could "Razorback" a Repulsor would be to drop capacity down to 6 models and give it a pintle mounted Demolisher cannon and sponson mounted Hurricane Bolters.

Well if you dropped the weapons down, reduce the armour etc. you could make the repulser far more razorback than land raider, which is sorely needed. Plus I think his point it to give an equivalent to the razorback, it doesn't have to be repulsive at all.

My question then is why? Space Marines currently use Rhinos as their standard transport because their are much easier to make and repair than Land Raiders. If LRs were as common as Rhinos, everyone would use them. The Razorback is an adaption of the Rhino chassis, halfway between a Predator and a Rhino- some transport, some firepower. The Primaris don't have the same issue as Repulsors are new and can be made new. Why then reduce the number of weapons and armour when the current version already exists? There would be no niche or benefit to it.

Because only having a land raider priced transport is terrible for any army. You need cheap alternatives. Some people only play Primaris, so 'you can use a rhino' is not a good argument. Saying they should have a cheap transport is just biased, 'I don't collect them so they shouldn't get anything.' That's how you sound.

I'm trying to think from a more logical and fluff based perspective than to fill a cheaper transport role in game. I'm not saying they shouldn't, I'm just saying I can't see a justification in terms of fluff or niche role for it, other than "Repulsors are expensive"

A fluff justification, yeah the rhino is a justification. In battle you need cheap transports not just for a battle but to travel and make contact between different companies, also for scouting missions, you don't want to use an expensive piece of kit, you'd rather have a lighter and faster vehicle. Also for transporting supplies, you aren't going to fill up a repulser with ammo to get the ammo from a to b. A repulser is state of the art, its valuable in what it does, only an idiot general would use it as an all purpose vehicle.

But it is an all-purpose vehicle and it is cheap enough to be mass-produced as shown in the fluff. Its a hover tank so its fast, can be deployed from upper atmosphere, it can do every job you need. Its a Land Raider, a Land Speeder, a Predator, and a Rhino all in one and does its job better than all of them and can be made to order unlike the others which use lost blueprints.

In terms of transporting supplies I don't see a situation where Space Marines need to transport supplies in large quantities and can't use flyers such as the Stormraven, Thunderhawk, Overlord or Drop Pod to deliver them directly to the point of need.