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GW has brutalized my wallet over the last 2 years. Every time I get out, they end up pulling me right back in.

 Chairman Aeon wrote:
But seriously these might actually be models for this game and also useable in 40K. I know it's strange to the young' but sometimes stuff is actually designed for the game they are bundled with. I think there is probably more money in these boxed games than as a minis release for 40K, just a function of board games being a bigger market and this being of interest to people who wouldn't buy the minis if they were some 40K Imperial add-ons.

All the current Quest characters have rules and are available separately. Do you think that these won't be? Even the two big adversaries got separate releases.

You preach about "strange to the young", but you're showing how naive you just may be here.

 Chairman Aeon wrote:
I get that you are not impressed by all this H.B.M.C., but this is going to reach far outside 40K even in ways that Kill Team couldn't. And if its any consolation all the new characters for 40K are monopose now, so why would boardgames minis be any different...

I'm not impressed with kits with few and fewer options. The Primaris Marines have zero options (they only have 5 poses per box). The AoS releases have fewer options. We just got 6 different Ork buggies, all of which have zero options on the sprue. This issue isn't new, it's spreading fast to all aspects of the HHHobby.

And it;s a damned shame.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Very promising, but it's the enemies that will sell me on this box - if we get Primaris-sized Chaos Marines and a selection of new & interesting gribblies then sold.

 Starfarer wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:
I'm kinda excited about this but also hesitant. GW has a bad history of supporting this kind of game.

What kind of support would you want for a game like this? It's a board game, complete in itself.

For them to keep it and its accessories available and support it in store. The hero cards for silver tower got dropped from the US webstore before I could get them. And that was a long time ago. Or at the least it feels like a while ago.

They would continue to support it if people were buying it. The cards got dropped because they stopped selling. If you didn't get around to buying them for the year they were out that's kinda on you. Seems a lot of people have these "I'll buy that one day" items that they never actually buy then get upset when GW discontinues them because they aren't selling.

No business can afford to keep dead stock either on their shelf or warehouse. I can promise you GW has a team analyzing what is selling and what isn't and they don't stop carrying something just because.

I know this is an alien concept to some people, but a few of us have to operate on this thing called a "budget" which is, shockingly, not infinite and requires we prioritise spending. Finding out about a GW product and thinking "I can treat myself to that at next Christmas/[insert alternative festive event here]", then being disappointed when it randomly vanishes a few months later is hardly unreasonable.

Besides which - forget all the back & forth about whether or not GW was justified in removing items like this from sale entirely, or what the real point of Direct Only is if it doesn't actually result in GW keeping niche stuff up for sale: why does keeping this stuff available have to mean selling the physical objects? They're cards, so have The Office Intern spend an afternoon bodging the source files together into a print-ready PDF and give us that instead - no stock to keep on hand, no logistics to care about, and barely any effort whatsoever. I mean hell, GW used to do that with whole rulebooks and give them away for free, these days they could probably get away with selling people the cards and yet they just dump them.

There are always ways GW could keep supporting these systems, they just don't want to, and that's what folk object to.

I completely understand that people have budgets. That said, the example given was a card pack that was roughly $20 and available for a year. That isn't about budgeting for it, it is an item they wanted, never bought, and only lamented not buying it after they no longer had the option.

Both Warhammer Quest sets are still available from GW. Sure, it'd be great of GW gave stuff away for free. Most companies don't give things away for free though.

GW supports things that sell well. Even when they do that they get accused of money-grubbing. Look at Kill Team. Look at people in this thread complaining about these releases not porting into 40k proper as an Uber competitive unit. Nothing is ever enough.

The real issue here is people want every release to fulfill every need they have for their preferred gaming niche. Some things are just one-off releases to explore a concept within the universe. They are fun side games or shallower board games to cater to that market. Or they are more narrative driven expansions that focus on a theme and aren't meant to offer unlimited customization.

GW exists to sell things. They sell different experiences to get customers with a wide variety of interests. Not everything they do needs to be a super deep, continually supported products. Don't get me wong, there are some that I wish were because that's what interests me, but it doesn't interest everyone, and so it's only going to sell as much as people are interested and GW is going to respond accordingly.

Sometimes they'll be overwhelmed with a response, like SWA, and they'll work very quickly (relatively) to come back and offer a product like Kill Team. And then they get backlash for selling expansions and not offering a complete experience in the core box, and why to I have to buy more stuff to keep up, and why do these optional expansions exist, and why is GW forcing this down our throat and etc., etc. and then we're back to square one when the next release comes round.

 Ghaz wrote:

fresus wrote:
I'm quite puzzled by the timing. Normally we get next week's pre-order list on Sunday, then daily articles the following week.
On top of that, we get the occasional tease at a long term release. That's what the first Blackstone Fortress video was, and what we got yesterday with the couple lines basically saying "it's coming in the next couple months".

But here we have an article that looks exactly like the ones we have in the week leading to the pre-order. Since there isn't much to tease about this Saturday's pre-orders (just terrain packs), can we assume this article is a filler, and we'll get teases about Blackstone Fortress over the next two weeks, for a Nov 10 pre-order?

We know what's up for pre-order this weekend thanks to those who already have the new White Dwarf. No idea why GW hasn't mentioned it on Warhammer Community unless they want it to be a 'surprise'. From Lady Atia via War of Sigmar:

Spoiler:

The Scenery bundles they showed on Sunday are up for preorder next weekend, they said that in the article.

 zend wrote:

I love the Inquisitor model. I wonder if this game will have a dedicated DM role like in Shadows over Hammerhal.

I’d assume not if it’s WHQ

Danny76 wrote:

 zend wrote:

I love the Inquisitor model. I wonder if this game will have a dedicated DM role like in Shadows over Hammerhal.

I’d assume not if it’s WHQ

Shadows over Hammerhal is WHQ too.

I'd prefer if it didn't. Quest was more fun when it was just the pure unfairness of the rules ripping the players to pieces.

Is Silver Tower actually fun to play? I bought it for the minis. This one would have to be fun, though, with all the other minis wants me to get. Even CSM goons and hopefully some crazy =I= stuff could be bits bought (prpbably have to be quick, though) and outside of maybe Skaven-Hrud I'm not sure what I'm lacking in 40k right now.

PS: The fur/scale trophy. The tail of it is furry, so why would the rest be scales, especially painted like that?

the_scotsman wrote:
your opponents are specifically instructed to hit your models with a games workshop pattern chaos dreadnought in a sock.

Helbrute. They're called Helbrutes now.

More like Alex Louis Armstrong

 Binabik15 wrote:
Is Silver Tower actually fun to play? I bought it for the minis. This one would have to be fun, though, with all the other minis wants me to get. Even CSM goons and hopefully some crazy =I= stuff could be bits bought (prpbably have to be quick, though) and outside of maybe Skaven-Hrud I'm not sure what I'm lacking in 40k right now.

PS: The fur/scale trophy. The tail of it is furry, so why would the rest be scales, especially painted like that?

I think so. I thought it was a little easy for the players, but then I've seen other groups (including the Warhammer TV people) be abysmal at it, so maybe we were just lucky. I've never played Shadows of Hammerhal, but I'd like to.

 JoeRugby wrote:

 sockwithaticket wrote:
A bit more hair, paint it blonde and I think we have 40k Lord Flashheart

Must be done

Hmm... hopefully one of the other characters can be turned into "Bob".

I've already got models for Commissar Blackadder Cain and Baldrick Jurgen, so this will be handy. "Woof!"

 ImAGeek wrote:

Danny76 wrote:

 zend wrote:

I love the Inquisitor model. I wonder if this game will have a dedicated DM role like in Shadows over Hammerhal.

I’d assume not if it’s WHQ

Shadows over Hammerhal is WHQ too.

Ah I see. So that diverged from WHQ’s standard?
What’s silver tower, also WHQ? Or no?

Both Silver Tower and Shadows of Hammerhal are games in the Warhammer Quest series.

Danny76 wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

Danny76 wrote:

 zend wrote:

I love the Inquisitor model. I wonder if this game will have a dedicated DM role like in Shadows over Hammerhal.

I’d assume not if it’s WHQ

Shadows over Hammerhal is WHQ too.

Ah I see. So that diverged from WHQ’s standard?
What’s silver tower, also WHQ? Or no?

Silver Tower is WHQ as well, but is the only one *without* DM support. Personally I'd like to see the option for DMs in Blackstone Fortress

Alternartively, Shadows of Hammerhal is the only Warhammer Quest game (currently) that does have a GM. I mean, there's only the two (the original '90s Warhammer Quest is only related by name).

Blackstone Fortress is following in Silver Tower's footsteps by having characters designed specifically for that game.

 zend wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

fresus wrote:
I'm quite puzzled by the timing. Normally we get next week's pre-order list on Sunday, then daily articles the following week.
On top of that, we get the occasional tease at a long term release. That's what the first Blackstone Fortress video was, and what we got yesterday with the couple lines basically saying "it's coming in the next couple months".

But here we have an article that looks exactly like the ones we have in the week leading to the pre-order. Since there isn't much to tease about this Saturday's pre-orders (just terrain packs), can we assume this article is a filler, and we'll get teases about Blackstone Fortress over the next two weeks, for a Nov 10 pre-order?

We know what's up for pre-order this weekend thanks to those who already have the new White Dwarf. No idea why GW hasn't mentioned it on Warhammer Community unless they want it to be a 'surprise'. From Lady Atia via War of Sigmar:

Spoiler:

Are these the space marines that were released in Japan? The last of the non-primaris?

Yep. RIP Space Marines.


I love the Inquisitor model. I wonder if this game will have a dedicated DM role like in Shadows over Hammerhal.

Space marines for 6 euro?
Sounds like its just a holliday greetings card by the price

 Klenval wrote:


A bit less hair, paint it blonde and...

Have an exalt.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 Binabik15 wrote:
Is Silver Tower actually fun to play? I bought it for the minis. This one would have to be fun, though, with all the other minis wants me to get. Even CSM goons and hopefully some crazy =I= stuff could be bits bought (prpbably have to be quick, though) and outside of maybe Skaven-Hrud I'm not sure what I'm lacking in 40k right now.

PS: The fur/scale trophy. The tail of it is furry, so why would the rest be scales, especially painted like that?

I think so. I thought it was a little easy for the players, but then I've seen other groups (including the Warhammer TV people) be abysmal at it, so maybe we were just lucky. I've never played Shadows of Hammerhal, but I'd like to.

It depends on the characters, as there's a good span of difference in power there. I also played with friends who have been playing RPGs and strategy games for decades, making Silver Tower pretty easy. Then again, I also played a one-off game with less magnificent characters and beating the final room was very tough and required creative use of the means at hand.

I thought Silver Tower is a really neat, lighthearted game where you can have a lot of fun as long as you're not looking for a hardcore challenge or competition.

I'm kind of hoping Blackstone Fortress goes in the same direction, but maybe with a little more substance in the RPG/progression/character development department.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'm not impressed with kits with few and fewer options. The Primaris Marines have zero options (they only have 5 poses per box).

You keep repeating this but it's still wrong. Five dynamic poses is still more than one, namely "I think I need a dump soon" squat tacticals have going on. Then you have arms, 10 different pairs doing different things, allowing you to make hundreds of unique combinations and ensuring with some thought none of your minis really look alike. The tacticals? Gee, one combination, again, clutching bolter across chest making every single one of them look downright identical (and stupid, that's not how you aim your gun, primaris poses next to that look like Delta force next to Bosnian conscript). Speaking of bolters, last time I checked three different variants is not only not zero, but more than again, one tacticals have. Really, the only thing the tacticals have over Primaris is the fact one guy in five has access to several guns instead of just grenade launcher, but if that is somehow the towering difference to you, then bravo.

Really, the only thing Primaris need right now is consolidation of all the various options they have in all SM books now into one datasheet (maybe in Primaris Codex?), release of 'Veteran' Primaris box (that will also provide some more bits you can use in regular Intercessors), and they will blow squatmarines out of the water in both rules and hobby aspects. Not bad for something that is only a year old compared to line that accrued bits and options across decades...

These new WHQ games suffer in my personal purchasing decisions from the fact that I ran a weekly, rotating cast game of the original, full Roleplay Book style, for about three straight years. All modern dungeon crawlers suffer from that, I think.

I'm sure they're nice games in their own right, but the brilliance of original Quest was that the random, AI-driven co-op mode was built into the default rules...then the full Roleplay Book (which focused on making it a GM-designed dungeon crawler board game with a campaign/character progression system, rather than an RPG-lite as so many people who never played it seem to assume) was layered on top of that. That meant the GM was utilizing the elements of the game that ran themselves, rather than co-op mode rules trying to fill in for an absent GM. Add to that the bestiary right there in the core box set that meant that any players with an evil WHFB at the time expanded your enemy sets by orders of magnitude and...yeah, I just can't get myself excited about these new ones.

Man, I wish someone could make a more modern dungeon crawler to scratch that particular set of itches.

 Irbis wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'm not impressed with kits with few and fewer options. The Primaris Marines have zero options (they only have 5 poses per box).

You keep repeating this but it's still wrong. Five dynamic poses is still more than one, namely "I think I need a dump soon" squat tacticals have going on. Then you have arms, 10 different pairs doing different things, allowing you to make hundreds of unique combinations and ensuring with some thought none of your minis really look alike. The tacticals? Gee, one combination, again, clutching bolter across chest making every single one of them look downright identical (and stupid, that's not how you aim your gun, primaris poses next to that look like Delta force next to Bosnian conscript). Speaking of bolters, last time I checked three different variants is not only not zero, but more than again, one tacticals have. Really, the only thing the tacticals have over Primaris is the fact one guy in five has access to several guns instead of just grenade launcher, but if that is somehow the towering difference to you, then bravo.

Really, the only thing Primaris need right now is consolidation of all the various options they have in all SM books now into one datasheet (maybe in Primaris Codex?), release of 'Veteran' Primaris box (that will also provide some more bits you can use in regular Intercessors), and they will blow squatmarines out of the water in both rules and hobby aspects. Not bad for something that is only a year old compared to line that accrued bits and options across decades...

That’s a truly impressive level of bias you have going there. Whilst you might not like the less human proportions and wide legged stance on tacticals, there’s simply zero question that a model with a posable waist and arms is more posable than one with only posable arms that comes with five fixed torso and legs as a unit builds.

I think we should keep a catalogue of all the posts that Ibris starts with some variation of "You are wrong!".

I wager it'd be a significant portion of them.

Plus regular Marines can have all sorts of variety, and can be kitbashed with almost every other Marine kit. Of course you knew that's what I was talking about. Your claims about "5 dynamic poses" don't mean anything. They have 5 poses (fewer in the boxes with only 3 minis), and almost no options compared to regular Marines. They are indicative of GW's current miniature design ethos, and somehow you seem to have missed the entire point of what I was saying to go on another "YOU ARE WRONG!" rant.

Whilst I agree that lack of variety and options is the biggest problem with the Primaris,the one-part bodies is not part of that. And I say this as a person who loves converting and customising models. Between Hellblaster and Intercessor kits you already have ten different base bodies. Making them one piece allows better details on the waist and stomach area, and those base bodies pretty much have the poses you would reasonably use already covered. And if you really need some tweaking for a very specific pose, knives exist. Primaris kits allow you to produce way better poses than more multipart tactical kits ever did.

I have to say that I was sceptical about the primaris kits as well, and I'm all about kitbashing and converting in general, but these kits are just leagues above tacticals.

It's not just the proportions, but despite the somewhat predefined poses, there is still a good amount of room to get great and diverse poses between the models.

Admittedly, there was a good amount of modelling putty, pinning and filing involved to achieve the exact poses I wanted.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/30/30th-oct-the-hunt-for-the-blackstone-fortress-2-the-explorersgw-homepage-post-1/

well the new video has more info on the "good guys". Got the kroot fellow shown, plus the ranger. The other guys include some odd balls for sure. What kind of dude is the one with the wide hat/helmet? Looks like some kind of techno priest perhaps. Then you have the Iron Giant

Is it wrong that my first instinct is to wonder how to translate that Kroot to Necromunda? Very nice model.

That Kroot model is great. I am reaaaally looking forward to seeing the others!