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NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
I would like a faction made up of Stormcast who have gone rogue because they have lost ALL their humanity. Rather than a corruption from some outside force, a faction of Stormcast that are bad because they have been messed up by what Sigmar is doing to them would be way cooler.

They could also be so lost to this rudimentary concept of "Order" that they become "Lawful Evil". I like it.

I would much prefer lawful neutral in the totally amoral sense.

"You are guilty of murder, the punishment is death."

"You are guilty of theft, the punishment is death."

"You have violated curfew, the punishment is death."

Charistoph wrote:Evil is always from perspective. In this case, not just evil to us, but evil to Sigmar or the Free People.

I responded as such because "lawful evil" evokes a certain philosophy from its DnD roots.

 Da Boss wrote:

I would like a faction made up of Stormcast who have gone rogue because they have lost ALL their humanity. Rather than a corruption from some outside force, a faction of Stormcast that are bad because they have been messed up by what Sigmar is doing to them would be way cooler.

My understanding of the lore is that Sigmar chooses them pretty much because they hate chaos. They're what they are by definition. A tool or a plot device more than a character, so losing their humanity would make them better at their job, not different.

If they refuse Sigmar deal they become knights of shrouds instead.

They hate chaos, but they're not mindless drones as you're suggesting. It was either in one of the realm gate books or the current battletome (somebody correct me please) where they had a temporary "alliance" with Valkia against a bigger Nurgle threat.

jouso wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It's pretty well established at this point that while Stormcast don't fear death a great many of them do fear reforging.

Still doesn't make them worthy of much in the way of sympathy.

They're pretty much single-use items. They don't have families,

They do have families, though? In soul wars you see a mother meet her daughter, and recognize her. In Palace of Memory two stormcasts, both wife and husband, do serve together (there's of course, a twist).

And even on an informal level you have other cases, like in the lightning golem, where the protagonist, Issakian, is in an informal relationship with a Vanguard-Hunter, Agrevaine (which would bring us to the question: define family).

only have the vaguest recollection of human feelings, etc.

Ehm... yeah, I am going to go for [citation needed]

Because outside of the realmgate wars you see a wide bank of emotions shown (and in the realmgate wars kind of, but not really developed at all).

We've seen pedantry, we've seen snark galore, we've seen how they do get heartbroken and desolate, etc.

So what if reforging pushes them even further into robot-ness? It's what they are.

They are not, though?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jouso wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:

I would like a faction made up of Stormcast who have gone rogue because they have lost ALL their humanity. Rather than a corruption from some outside force, a faction of Stormcast that are bad because they have been messed up by what Sigmar is doing to them would be way cooler.

My understanding of the lore is that Sigmar chooses them pretty much because they hate chaos. They're what they are by definition. A tool or a plot device more than a character, so losing their humanity would make them better at their job, not different.

If they refuse Sigmar deal they become knights of shrouds instead.

Eh, your understanding is a tad flawed. Knights Excelsior are drawn from those that do have a seething hatred of chaos. Stormcasts are just people whom showed acts of heroism, from peasants that took a desperate last stand to kings that led operations of resistance. Just hating chaos isn't really their sole factor, as showcased with the Redeemed, which are entirely formed from former chaos champions/worshippers whom were deemed to still hold a redeeming mote on their beings.

The big problem with a lot of early Stormcast Lore is that its tied up in the Realmgate Novels which are basically each a huge battle to retake a realmgate from Chaos. So what we see of them is very focused on those battles, which can result in Stormcast appearing very automaton warrior like because that's basically what they are doing - fullfilling the divine reason for their creation in glorious war against Chaos in the name of Sigmar.

I think it masks some of the complexities of their character which is only now starting to come out. I also think the writers were a bit hampered with early AoS and were almost as unsure of the setting as the players were. The newer works are much tighter and present new angles.

Inferno has a Stormcast who has fallen from Sigmar's grace; we hear hints of infighting and politics in Heart of Winter. The hints are around to be found, but they are not boldly thrust forward as the warrior aspect is.


There's also other things waiting- the vast arena where Stormcast train where they cannot die within has a nefarious ulterior motive that we likely won't find out until the new "Dark Aelf" faction is released

Lord Kragan wrote:

jouso wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It's pretty well established at this point that while Stormcast don't fear death a great many of them do fear reforging.

Still doesn't make them worthy of much in the way of sympathy.

They're pretty much single-use items. They don't have families,

They do have families, though? In soul wars you see a mother meet her daughter, and recognize her.

Which probably means they used to have a family rather than have one. Do SCE take their sons to learn to ride? Do they teach them to forge a sword? etc etc

Eh, your understanding is a tad flawed. Knights Excelsior are drawn from those that do have a seething hatred of chaos. Stormcasts are just people whom showed acts of heroism, from peasants that took a desperate last stand to kings that led operations of resistance. Just hating chaos isn't really their sole factor, as showcased with the Redeemed, which are entirely formed from former chaos champions/worshippers whom were deemed to still hold a redeeming mote on their beings.

They have a choice (otherwise there wouldn't be such a thing as knights of shrouds). Hating or having a drudge against chaos is the only reason why you would choose to fight Chaos post-mortem.

They're boring in the same way khorne is the most boring of the chaos gods. They're (re)born for a purpose, and the purpose is war yadda yadda.

They do actually have and maintain family ties. One example that springs to mind is a stormcast who regularly visits his family and ancestors during his downtime. In fact he finds it quite funny when he visits ancestors further down in time as they freak out when he appears for a family catch up. It sounds like you're just looking for things to hate. And as stated above we've got at least one example of a married couple that fight together.

Gates of Azyr has a lot of problems but even there the stormcast characters are pretty clearly defined as fully capable emotional beings. Notably to their detriment when one character is so desperate to kill a Khorne champion before he can fulfill a prophesy and decapitate his BFF he ends up getting himself decapitated instead.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
They do actually have and maintain family ties. One example that springs to mind is a stormcast who regularly visits his family and ancestors during his downtime. In fact he finds it quite funny when he visits ancestors further down in time as they freak out when he appears for a family catch up.

*decendants

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
It sounds like you're just looking for things to hate.

That's just the nature of the thread, same reason the same points get brought up over and over; one can cite examples across black library and the battletomes all day but once that aspect of the discussion dies down for a few pages you'll see someone claiming stormcasts are robots again.

 Captain Joystick wrote:
Gates of Azyr has a lot of problems but even there the stormcast characters are pretty clearly defined as fully capable emotional beings. Notably to their detriment when one character is so desperate to kill a Khorne champion before he can fulfill a prophesy and decapitate his BFF he ends up getting himself decapitated instead.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
They do actually have and maintain family ties. One example that springs to mind is a stormcast who regularly visits his family and ancestors during his downtime. In fact he finds it quite funny when he visits ancestors further down in time as they freak out when he appears for a family catch up.

*decendants

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
It sounds like you're just looking for things to hate.

That's just the nature of the thread, same reason the same points get brought up over and over; one can cite examples across black library and the battletomes all day but once that aspect of the discussion dies down for a few pages you'll see someone claiming stormcasts are robots again.

They may or may not be robots. But they really do lack any sort of character. All gold. All sigmar. All awesome. All the time.

 Captain Joystick wrote:
Gates of Azyr has a lot of problems but even there the stormcast characters are pretty clearly defined as fully capable emotional beings. Notably to their detriment when one character is so desperate to kill a Khorne champion before he can fulfill a prophesy and decapitate his BFF he ends up getting himself decapitated instead.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
They do actually have and maintain family ties. One example that springs to mind is a stormcast who regularly visits his family and ancestors during his downtime. In fact he finds it quite funny when he visits ancestors further down in time as they freak out when he appears for a family catch up.
*descendants

Quite right. That's what I get for trying to multitask.


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Pancakey wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:
Gates of Azyr has a lot of problems but even there the stormcast characters are pretty clearly defined as fully capable emotional beings. Notably to their detriment when one character is so desperate to kill a Khorne champion before he can fulfill a prophesy and decapitate his BFF he ends up getting himself decapitated instead.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
They do actually have and maintain family ties. One example that springs to mind is a stormcast who regularly visits his family and ancestors during his downtime. In fact he finds it quite funny when he visits ancestors further down in time as they freak out when he appears for a family catch up.

*decendants

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
It sounds like you're just looking for things to hate.

That's just the nature of the thread, same reason the same points get brought up over and over; one can cite examples across black library and the battletomes all day but once that aspect of the discussion dies down for a few pages you'll see someone claiming stormcasts are robots again.

They may or may not be robots. But they really do lack any sort of character. All gold. All sigmar. All awesome. All the time.

Did you actually bother to read the last couple of pages?

Pancakey wrote:
They may or may not be robots. But they really do lack any sort of character. All gold. All sigmar. All awesome. All the time.

I feel like you've proven my actual point better than I ever could.

Pancakey wrote:

They may or may not be robots. But they really do lack any sort of character. All gold. All sigmar. All awesome. All the time.

Until they fail - there's a neat short story (I forget if its in Inferno 1 or 2) which deals with a Stormcast who has lost his way.
Seriously people need to read the books that are not focused on Stormcast and which are a bit more modern (though some of the early ones ilke Pestilens are great)

 Captain Joystick wrote:

Pancakey wrote:
They may or may not be robots. But they really do lack any sort of character. All gold. All sigmar. All awesome. All the time.

I feel like you've proven my actual point better than I ever could.

Let me clarify. In game and on the table Stormcast lack any sort of character. All gold. All awesome. All the time.

Pancakey wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:

Pancakey wrote:
They may or may not be robots. But they really do lack any sort of character. All gold. All sigmar. All awesome. All the time.

I feel like you've proven my actual point better than I ever could.

Let me clarify. In game and on the table Stormcast lack any sort of character. All gold. All awesome. All the time.

So you've only an issue with gold ones? So if they are painted pink or bright blue or silver or rusty orange that's ok?

 Overread wrote:

Pancakey wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:

Pancakey wrote:
They may or may not be robots. But they really do lack any sort of character. All gold. All sigmar. All awesome. All the time.

I feel like you've proven my actual point better than I ever could.

Let me clarify. In game and on the table Stormcast lack any sort of character. All gold. All awesome. All the time.

So you've only an issue with gold ones? So if they are painted pink or bright blue or silver or rusty orange that's ok?

What color are your stormcasts?

Deep bronze, purple and bone speaking personally.

Pancakey wrote:

 Overread wrote:

Pancakey wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:

Pancakey wrote:
They may or may not be robots. But they really do lack any sort of character. All gold. All sigmar. All awesome. All the time.

I feel like you've proven my actual point better than I ever could.

Let me clarify. In game and on the table Stormcast lack any sort of character. All gold. All awesome. All the time.

So you've only an issue with gold ones? So if they are painted pink or bright blue or silver or rusty orange that's ok?

What color are your stormcasts?

Plastician Grey
Although the only stormcast I own are Gryph hounds and they will likely be a variety of colours (at least one will have a grey-blue head and brown body) probably involving reds and silvers and some gold because they will be working for Daughters of Khaine.

I've also got some mounted units somewhere that I might paint up for further allies; if I do get round to them chances are I'll lean toward a reddy gold shade to fix with the DoK themes (you know hearts and blood and all that). I've no actual interest in building a proper Stormcast army - not that I don't like the models - heck the hyena pegasus I would love to own and field.

Pretty sure he means gold in the metaphorical sense.

Pancakey wrote:

 Overread wrote:

Pancakey wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:

Pancakey wrote:
They may or may not be robots. But they really do lack any sort of character. All gold. All sigmar. All awesome. All the time.

I feel like you've proven my actual point better than I ever could.

Let me clarify. In game and on the table Stormcast lack any sort of character. All gold. All awesome. All the time.

So you've only an issue with gold ones? So if they are painted pink or bright blue or silver or rusty orange that's ok?

What color are your stormcasts?

Silver as primary and bronze as secondary, with bits in dark blue and crimson.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Pretty sure he means gold in the metaphorical sense.

And I'm pretty sure he's just a troll.

It is a shame that so many people were put off by the early fiction. The first three novels were just novelisations for the campaign books. The authors were given very little freedom to play with the setting. The more recent books from city of secrets on have done a much better job of exploring the setting, givng the sense of place that many felt were lacking at the start, and contextualising the place of the Stormcast.
A lot of the early stories felt like an excuse to show a few battles and nothing more.
Nick Horth’s books, eight lamentations, the two Evan Dicken stories and the Gotrek audio drama are all excellent.
Soul wars was the best warhammer tie-in book I have read. It is essentially a story about a city preparing for a siege and the fighting doesn’t really break out until the last quarter of the book.
The Stormcast may not be human but their whole story is about humanity, about what it means to be human and whether it is worth sacrificing your own humanity to protect others.
The soul wars was a great hook to tie the second edition to. With Slaanesh and more Aelves still to come, I hope it continues to be explored from some time.

To answer the op question the reason I’m not playing the game much is time and the existence of more sub games.
With two small children time is at a premium so I find that warhammer underworlds does a good job of scratching the gaming itch.
I have dabbled with skirmish, but I really want an expanded version with the kind of attention that has been given to kill team before I fully jump in.
I also play silver tower every now and then, which I still find enjoyable.

auticus wrote:It opens the door for the traditional GW tropes of chaos marines.

Chaos tainted sigmarines (straight up copy/paste chaos marines)
Death tainted sigmarines (the deathcast which are already a thing in the narrative)
Destruction tainted sigmarines

Which gives you a super hero enemy army.

As sad as that would be if it happened, when I was trying and still trying to make my Storm Casts, I just don't like Sigmar, so I am thinking how to use those mini and they bascially end up realizing Sigmar is a coward and false god. Then I realized I am basically copying 40K version without even thinking of it. I guess since Stormcasts act so much like Space Marines, the classic "turning on your father" story fit's so easily. So I guess I wouldn't mind Chaos/bad Stormcasts.

After all that is what my minis are. Just haven't put a scheme together for it yet.

Chaos Stormcast would just be bigger Chaos Warriors, which is not super interesting. We already have some pretty beefy chaos dudes. It will probably happen though.

I am thinking about picking up the SC that is the Stormcast half of the old starter and painting them as "elemental" themed golems of Law. Bronze/Fire themed for the hammer wielding dudes, Lightning/Air themed for the flying dudes, Stonecast for one of the foot units and some sort of Iron with a turquoise detailing for the other. Gives me a bunch of Golems for use in roleplaying games but also the possibility to run them as celestians, archons or whatever.

Pancakey wrote:

 Overread wrote:

Pancakey wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:

Pancakey wrote:
They may or may not be robots. But they really do lack any sort of character. All gold. All sigmar. All awesome. All the time.

I feel like you've proven my actual point better than I ever could.

Let me clarify. In game and on the table Stormcast lack any sort of character. All gold. All awesome. All the time.

So you've only an issue with gold ones? So if they are painted pink or bright blue or silver or rusty orange that's ok?

What color are your stormcasts?

Bare metal plate, with green cloth and their shields and shoulders have a green and black split livery. All of my small force travel around the city they are stationed in and the area nearby (I only play them in skirmish setting) bare-faced to reassure the populace that they are people, not monsters. I wanted them to be oversized knights, kind of a nod to Brettonia in AoS, and each one has a pose matched with their face.

Did you give all of them bare heads? Makes them look like super paladins or something. Cool.

Yes, the goal is to all have bare heads so they don't look like midieval Cybermen. I didn't want a force of clones.

Davor wrote:

auticus wrote:It opens the door for the traditional GW tropes of chaos marines.

Chaos tainted sigmarines (straight up copy/paste chaos marines)
Death tainted sigmarines (the deathcast which are already a thing in the narrative)
Destruction tainted sigmarines

Which gives you a super hero enemy army.

As sad as that would be if it happened, when I was trying and still trying to make my Storm Casts, I just don't like Sigmar, so I am thinking how to use those mini and they bascially end up realizing Sigmar is a coward and false god. Then I realized I am basically copying 40K version without even thinking of it. I guess since Stormcasts act so much like Space Marines, the classic "turning on your father" story fit's so easily. So I guess I wouldn't mind Chaos/bad Stormcasts.

After all that is what my minis are. Just haven't put a scheme together for it yet.

But stormcast don't act like Space Marines, Generally. And where are you getting this Sigmar is a coward thing from? Also I don't think we need chaos stormcast, when we already have chaos Warriors, blood Warriors and blight Kings.

xking wrote:

Davor wrote:

auticus wrote:It opens the door for the traditional GW tropes of chaos marines.

Chaos tainted sigmarines (straight up copy/paste chaos marines)
Death tainted sigmarines (the deathcast which are already a thing in the narrative)
Destruction tainted sigmarines

Which gives you a super hero enemy army.

As sad as that would be if it happened, when I was trying and still trying to make my Storm Casts, I just don't like Sigmar, so I am thinking how to use those mini and they bascially end up realizing Sigmar is a coward and false god. Then I realized I am basically copying 40K version without even thinking of it. I guess since Stormcasts act so much like Space Marines, the classic "turning on your father" story fit's so easily. So I guess I wouldn't mind Chaos/bad Stormcasts.

After all that is what my minis are. Just haven't put a scheme together for it yet.

But stormcast don't act like Space Marines, Generally. And where are you getting this Sigmar is a coward thing from? Also I don't think we need chaos stormcast, when we already have chaos Warriors, blood Warriors and blight Kings.

I just don't like Sigmar, so I am thinking how to use those mini and they bascially end up realizing Sigmar is a coward and false god.

That's his own headcannon. You know. The stuff that is allowed and GW used to encourage at least before they made decision to ignore what their settings were(ie settings) and turned things around to "story".

tneva82 wrote:

xking wrote:

Davor wrote:

auticus wrote:It opens the door for the traditional GW tropes of chaos marines.

Chaos tainted sigmarines (straight up copy/paste chaos marines)
Death tainted sigmarines (the deathcast which are already a thing in the narrative)
Destruction tainted sigmarines

Which gives you a super hero enemy army.

As sad as that would be if it happened, when I was trying and still trying to make my Storm Casts, I just don't like Sigmar, so I am thinking how to use those mini and they bascially end up realizing Sigmar is a coward and false god. Then I realized I am basically copying 40K version without even thinking of it. I guess since Stormcasts act so much like Space Marines, the classic "turning on your father" story fit's so easily. So I guess I wouldn't mind Chaos/bad Stormcasts.

After all that is what my minis are. Just haven't put a scheme together for it yet.

But stormcast don't act like Space Marines, Generally. And where are you getting this Sigmar is a coward thing from? Also I don't think we need chaos stormcast, when we already have chaos Warriors, blood Warriors and blight Kings.

I just don't like Sigmar, so I am thinking how to use those mini and they bascially end up realizing Sigmar is a coward and false god.

That's his own headcannon. You know. The stuff that is allowed and GW used to encourage at least before they made decision to ignore what their settings were(ie settings) and turned things around to "story".

GW does encourage people to create personal lore in the AoS setting. However in my opinion there is a such thing as personally created lore that could happen in the setting and personally created lore that is highly unlikely to happen in the setting. Otherwise what's the point of having a setting.

Stormcast in open revolt is almost never going to happen, especially not in large numbers and they would not survive long. They would not be able to be reforged, the priest would lose their powers. And they will be hunted down by the forces of Chaos, order and death. They have also met their God, Sigmar is the opposite a coward.

But I digress, it's headcanon.