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There's not really anything I want to buy from them at the moment, but if there was, I'd find it really hard to hold a moral objection from buying from them due to their inflated prices and continue to buy regular GW stuff at their equally inflated prices. I totally get the outrage, but I don't get why its somehow okay to be overcharged on the normal stuff just because you're used to it.

 LunarSol wrote:
There's not really anything I want to buy from them at the moment, but if there was, I'd find it really hard to hold a moral objection from buying from them due to their inflated prices and continue to buy regular GW stuff at their equally inflated prices. I totally get the outrage, but I don't get why its somehow okay to be overcharged on the normal stuff just because you're used to it.

It's because a 30% markup on a plastic unit doesn't hurt the wallet anywhere near as much as a 30% markup on FW resin. Depending where you shop you can get up to 20% off RRP on plastic from third party stockists too. No such luck with FW, gotta buy it direct.

While the Aus tax from GW hurts, it's not quite so bad 'cause at the very least they give us a place to game with nice terrain, a good manager (though obviously that's going to vary from store to store) and monthly comps and prizes to offset the ball kicking they give us on price.

FW though? Nothing like that to justify an already hefty pricetag going up 30% or more. I'm glad I brought an excess of my Thousand Sons 30k army a while back in a couple of batches as there's no way they're getting reinforcements past the ~4k they already have under this pricing scheme. The bald faced lies about the cost being "shipping improvements" only rubs further salt into the wound. If it was really a shipping cost, then surely that's what the seperate shipping charge is for?

 IronBrand wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
There's not really anything I want to buy from them at the moment, but if there was, I'd find it really hard to hold a moral objection from buying from them due to their inflated prices and continue to buy regular GW stuff at their equally inflated prices. I totally get the outrage, but I don't get why its somehow okay to be overcharged on the normal stuff just because you're used to it.

It's because a 30% markup on a plastic unit doesn't hurt the wallet anywhere near as much as a 30% markup on FW resin. Depending where you shop you can get up to 20% off RRP on plastic from third party stockists too. No such luck with FW, gotta buy it direct.

That's.... fine? Ultimately you're arguing that the product isn't worth the asking price. You're essentially still arguing that if you're suggesting that the plastics are okay because you can get it at a discount somewhere. That very well may be true; I just think arguing that one price hike demands bans and boycotts while another is okay kind of misses the point of the outrage. Extra true when you're still paying the same person the same increase. Refusing to pay GW $170 for a a Spartan tank because it should only cost about $143 but being okay with paying GW $170 for a Castellan that should only cost about $130 seems.... inconsistent? at the very least.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Drasius wrote:
While the Aus tax from GW hurts, it's not quite so bad 'cause at the very least they give us a place to game with nice terrain, a good manager (though obviously that's going to vary from store to store) and monthly comps and prizes to offset the ball kicking they give us on price.

FW though? Nothing like that to justify an already hefty pricetag going up 30% or more. I'm glad I brought an excess of my Thousand Sons 30k army a while back in a couple of batches as there's no way they're getting reinforcements past the ~4k they already have under this pricing scheme. The bald faced lies about the cost being "shipping improvements" only rubs further salt into the wound. If it was really a shipping cost, then surely that's what the seperate shipping charge is for?

You know they're the same company, right?

 LunarSol wrote:
You know they're the same company, right?

You know that the parent company will still tally up which division sold what, right?

Not sure if boycott is the right word. I was going to buy a couple leviathan dreads w/ arms from them. Didn't want to go the recaster route because it didn't seem worth the risk to get a poorly done model for my money.

Now, with the increased prices, I just don't think it is worth it. Not out of any moral outrage (they are a company and can charge what they want) but more a sense of it's just not worth the price anymore. The cost difference between the recast and the authentic version is so great now that it's almost worth the risk.

I just can't pull the trigger on a recast (I don't usually consider myself a moral high-road person but I would be so embarrassed if I brought it to a game and someone called me out or I even thought that they knew) but knowing that the equivalent model is out there at less than half the cost just makes me feel like a sucker for spending that much more.

 Drasius wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
You know they're the same company, right?

You know that the parent company will still tally up which division sold what, right?

Actually they go out of their way to hide how much FW makes in their shareholders reports.
And combine FW into GW direct sales, it's odd but they don't seem to want to have to acknowledge or esplain FW to shareholders.

 Drasius wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
You know they're the same company, right?

You know that the parent company will still tally up which division sold what, right?

By all means, support the retail channel. It's a high risk division that provides real benefits for players and deserves the business it gets. FW is an inherently low risk outlet for them. That's like.... pretty much the whole point.

Lets be real though, no one in the FW chain woke up one morning and said, "I know, lets charge a bunch more for our stuff to make more money!" The price change is a result of GW accepting foreign currency at the same abysmal rate they do everywhere else. The parent company did this, it knew exactly what it was doing and it probably knows exactly how people would respond and they likely don't really care. I don't like it, but I'm not going to storm off and give the same people my money for doing the exact same thing to me just because they're wearing a different hat.

just ordered a Damocles Rhino
€50 plus €8 postage to Ireland
however in ireland we have a parcel service which gives the use of a UK address
so worked out at £40 plus £3.50 postage (~€50) plus €3.50 service charge for the UK address

minimal saving but i still like to feel like i got one up on them!!!

 Drasius wrote:
While the Aus tax from GW hurts, it's not quite so bad 'cause at the very least they give us a place to game with nice terrain, a good manager (though obviously that's going to vary from store to store) and monthly comps and prizes to offset the ball kicking they give us on price.

Jeez wish I got that.

bananathug wrote:
Not sure if boycott is the right word. I was going to buy a couple leviathan dreads w/ arms from them. Didn't want to go the recaster route because it didn't seem worth the risk to get a poorly done model for my money.

Now, with the increased prices, I just don't think it is worth it. Not out of any moral outrage (they are a company and can charge what they want) but more a sense of it's just not worth the price anymore. The cost difference between the recast and the authentic version is so great now that it's almost worth the risk.

I just can't pull the trigger on a recast (I don't usually consider myself a moral high-road person but I would be so embarrassed if I brought it to a game and someone called me out or I even thought that they knew) but knowing that the equivalent model is out there at less than half the cost just makes me feel like a sucker for spending that much more.

I have a legit FW Leviathan and my buddy has a Chinacast Leviathan. I cannot tell them apart and will likely be buying 100% Chinacast from now on unless FW does something amazing to generate some serious good will. Honestly, the price hike wasn't even what pissed me off as I am fortunate enough to be able to afford the FW models I want/need for my armies even at the new prices, it was the insulting way they portrayed it as being in my best interests. If you're going to feth me, be honest about it, or at the very least come up with a prettier lie than the one they went with.

 Galef wrote:
I wouldn't use the word 'boycott' but I've never actually purchased anything from FW. The closest thing I've got are 2 recast Hornets.
The price has always been an issue, but the deal breaker for me is the accessibility. I'm old fashioned in that I like to go to a store to buy stuff, only recently using eBay for its convenience. I can't buy FW stuff at a store, eBay is even more expensive for FW stuff and the direct shipping takes forever.

Add to the fact that GW already has way, WAY too much variety as-is (in that I can't keep up with what's out there and new) and I can only see the demise of FW as a good thing.
Not boycotting, just glad there will be less to think about.

-

Unless you happen to be a chaos player who wants to run with drop pods that happen to be in the lore, but are mysteriously absent from the model range. For me, as soon as the chaos holes are plugged then its a sad evil. This is me being biased btw. I just thought it must be damn nice to be able to complain about having to many choices to play;D

 LunarSol wrote:
That's.... fine? Ultimately you're arguing that the product isn't worth the asking price. You're essentially still arguing that if you're suggesting that the plastics are okay because you can get it at a discount somewhere. That very well may be true; I just think arguing that one price hike demands bans and boycotts while another is okay kind of misses the point of the outrage. Extra true when you're still paying the same person the same increase. Refusing to pay GW $170 for a a Spartan tank because it should only cost about $143 but being okay with paying GW $170 for a Castellan that should only cost about $130 seems.... inconsistent? at the very least.

I'm not arguing for boycotts. I've always held the opinion that stopping buying over the price change isn't boycotting, it's reevaluating the value. Boycotting IMO is on a moral ground, i.e. a player in the UK boycotting over the international pricing.

With the example of the spartan and castellan. In Australia the spartan went from £110 to AU$260 which at the current exchange rate works out to roughly a AU$60 markup. Whereas the castellan is £100 to AU$280 RRP, it's even more of a markup than the spartan converting to ~AU$183 at the current rate for a markup of AU$97. However, I buy my plastics at a store that gives 20% of RRP. So I get a castellan for AU$224 which is only a ~22% markup. While the spartan works out at a roughly 53% markup you still have to pay postage on top and wait 3 weeks for it to arrive that's one of the better kits for the new FW pricing. Rhino doors almost doubled in price going from ~AU$25 when buying in pounds to AU$40 and some titans work out as having a ~AU$900 price increase with the new pricing model.

Ordering plastic through a third party at a ~20% markup over the British pricing feels a hell of a lot better than buying from FW, paying them ~50% markup, still paying for postage and having to wait three weeks for it to arrive. So no, it isn't incosistent to be fine with technically the same RRP markup on the plastic as the FW resin. Most Australians would agree that only being forced to pay an extra 20% on a castellan for being Australian is a damn bargain compared to how we usually get shafted.

Obviously it varies from country to country and kit to kit but Australia is typically the worst when it comes to getting shafted on price and even we're really not paying much of a markup in price on plastic unless you're paying full retail.

I have job.. I find it extremely expensive but I'm not boycotting. I also think boycotting will exasperate the issue and is honestly fething slowed

The prices are what they are. I just ordered like $300AU or so of stuff from there because I wanted it. The game is an extravagance, if I want something I buy it, if I think something is to expensive I don't buy it. I personally think that if people don't buy certain products they will just reduce that line and axe it, over an entire overhaul of the pricing system. So I am gunna just buy what I have always wanted over the next few months, just incase.

Ice_can wrote:

 Drasius wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
You know they're the same company, right?

You know that the parent company will still tally up which division sold what, right?

Actually they go out of their way to hide how much FW makes in their shareholders reports.
And combine FW into GW direct sales, it's odd but they don't seem to want to have to acknowledge or esplain FW to shareholders.

Whatever they report to the market, you're kidding yourself if you don't think they know exactly who sold what. Have a chat to a store manager sometime, they'll likely be more than happy to tell you about how each store has it's targets and that stores run a very real risk of getting shut down if they're not performing. It'll be no different on a larger scale for FW. I'm not implying that a few AU/NZ/US customers turning off the taps will cause them to shut down FW, but I'd suggest that they will take note that they've dropped a noticeable portion of sales from the regions most affected by the regional pricing scam.

LunarSol wrote:

 Drasius wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
You know they're the same company, right?

You know that the parent company will still tally up which division sold what, right?

By all means, support the retail channel. It's a high risk division that provides real benefits for players and deserves the business it gets. FW is an inherently low risk outlet for them. That's like.... pretty much the whole point.

Lets be real though, no one in the FW chain woke up one morning and said, "I know, lets charge a bunch more for our stuff to make more money!" The price change is a result of GW accepting foreign currency at the same abysmal rate they do everywhere else. The parent company did this, it knew exactly what it was doing and it probably knows exactly how people would respond and they likely don't really care. I don't like it, but I'm not going to storm off and give the same people my money for doing the exact same thing to me just because they're wearing a different hat.

Oh, for sure, GW has been kicking aussies (and kiwis) in the nuts over price for years, but at least the prices are a bit closer to the global average, especially on big kits (sometimes a big kit actually works out cheaper, it's super weird). I'd almost expect the FW lads were told, "hey, we can get away with charging the non-brits well over the exchange rate, how 'bout you gents give it a bash too!".

I'm definitely not storming off to give my money to GW instead of FW, I'm simply not going to buy any more 30k toys or if I do get the urge to splurge, for the first time ever I will consider chinaforge on principle alone. Hell, FW is effectively banned in my GW, I play 30k with another group who're exclusively heresy players. My spend on GW also won't change, I'll continue to collect stuff I want, though they've not made much I'm keen on recently. Maybe that'll change when they release some new SoB - if they're close enough to my metal models that the styles don't clash horribly, I will probably grab some new toys for them.

 Drasius wrote:

Oh, for sure, GW has been kicking aussies (and kiwis) in the nuts over price for years, but at least the prices are a bit closer to the global average, especially on big kits (sometimes a big kit actually works out cheaper, it's super weird). I'd almost expect the FW lads were told, "hey, we can get away with charging the non-brits well over the exchange rate, how 'bout you gents give it a bash too!".

It's funny because if American's hadn't been so militant for years and years about "Australians are just whining, the mark up must be tax, nobody is price gouging, blah blah blah", and had supported AUS/NZ in their complaints instead of throwing them under the bus and rallying against them, then it's quite possible that FW wouldn't have felt so comfortable doing the same thing to American's today.


So they'll have to forgive me if I don't have an ounce of sympathy for their 20% mark ups, while we've been getting hit with 80% mark ups for however long.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Drasius wrote:

Oh, for sure, GW has been kicking aussies (and kiwis) in the nuts over price for years, but at least the prices are a bit closer to the global average, especially on big kits (sometimes a big kit actually works out cheaper, it's super weird). I'd almost expect the FW lads were told, "hey, we can get away with charging the non-brits well over the exchange rate, how 'bout you gents give it a bash too!".

It's funny because if American's hadn't been so militant for years and years about "Australians are just whining, the mark up must be tax, nobody is price gouging, blah blah blah", and had supported AUS/NZ in their complaints instead of throwing them under the bus and rallying against them, then it's quite possible that FW wouldn't have felt so comfortable doing the same thing to American's today.


So they'll have to forgive me if I don't have an ounce of sympathy for their 20% mark ups, while we've been getting hit with 80% mark ups for however long.

That’s a serious chip on your shoulder. I’m not sure where your getting that idea. Anyone gouging anyone is always despicable.

 Stormonu wrote:
That’s a serious chip on your shoulder. I’m not sure where your getting that idea. Anyone gouging anyone is always despicable.

He's getting it from the experience of being Australian. The typical international response to Aussies getting gouged on anything is "well that sucks lol". Then when they have to deal with the insane prices we have to every day because there's a shortage like with RAM or the inflation on graphics cards from mining there's outrage and suddenly the sky is falling. It's human nature to only truly care about something if it affects you directly or someone you care about. If it isn't directly affecting a person they tend to brush it off as hyperbole. So Australians are typically apathetic or even amused when others are hit with the stuff we've been hit with for years.

Another good example was when blizzard finally moved the Australian World of Warcraft servers to actually being hosted in Australia. All the Americans who played on the Australian severs to get an advantage in PVP by virtue of having 1/7th the latency of the Australian players raged that the game was now "literally unplayable" because they suddenly had to experience the lag those Australians had been living with since the game launched. The response from the Australian playerbase was of course to just laugh in their faces.

 IronBrand wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
That's.... fine? Ultimately you're arguing that the product isn't worth the asking price. You're essentially still arguing that if you're suggesting that the plastics are okay because you can get it at a discount somewhere. That very well may be true; I just think arguing that one price hike demands bans and boycotts while another is okay kind of misses the point of the outrage. Extra true when you're still paying the same person the same increase. Refusing to pay GW $170 for a a Spartan tank because it should only cost about $143 but being okay with paying GW $170 for a Castellan that should only cost about $130 seems.... inconsistent? at the very least.

I'm not arguing for boycotts. I've always held the opinion that stopping buying over the price change isn't boycotting, it's reevaluating the value. Boycotting IMO is on a moral ground, i.e. a player in the UK boycotting over the international pricing.

Thats why im boycotting, they had for me the perfect army, the most fun i've ever had, and amazingly balance (without the 1 formation that wasnt allow in tournaments anyways), but they didnt support it for 2yrs+, then they decided to can the army (Corsairs).

Been boycotting FW my whole life.

Paying more for worse models never really did it for me...GW could easily make 90% of these models in plastic but doesn't because FW is a separate entity within GW and for some reason has a lot of sway. Hopefully with this new cash grab GW stock holders will see that FW is a burden the company can no longer tolerate. Absolve into GW. Then we can get plastic kits for titans unique FW tanks and stuff...for half the cost...and GW will make twice the money off of them too.

Plus - we all know the reason FW prices are going up...

 Stormonu wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Drasius wrote:

Oh, for sure, GW has been kicking aussies (and kiwis) in the nuts over price for years, but at least the prices are a bit closer to the global average, especially on big kits (sometimes a big kit actually works out cheaper, it's super weird). I'd almost expect the FW lads were told, "hey, we can get away with charging the non-brits well over the exchange rate, how 'bout you gents give it a bash too!".

It's funny because if American's hadn't been so militant for years and years about "Australians are just whining, the mark up must be tax, nobody is price gouging, blah blah blah", and had supported AUS/NZ in their complaints instead of throwing them under the bus and rallying against them, then it's quite possible that FW wouldn't have felt so comfortable doing the same thing to American's today.


So they'll have to forgive me if I don't have an ounce of sympathy for their 20% mark ups, while we've been getting hit with 80% mark ups for however long.

That’s a serious chip on your shoulder. I’m not sure where your getting that idea. Anyone gouging anyone is always despicable.

I'm getting that "idea" from the facts of the matter. You don't speak for the entirety of your country, and the majority of comments on this topic from Americans has always been the same, mocking Australians, calling them whiney, or arguing for page after page about how it's not price gouging at all there must be some hidden cost that only exists when selling in Australia etc. The fact that you think this isn't the case is a testament to the fact that you've only just started caring recently. I've seen and participated in this discussion hundreds of times and I can guarantee this is how a large amount of your country has behaved for years concerning it. It's not me having a chip on my shoulder to say that I suspect the support and white knighting your country does for companies engaging in this practice may have been a direct factor in GWs decision to add you to the mix.

I’m not really a fan of outright boycotting. Certainly not for something like price increases. Either a product is worth the price to you, or it’s not. For that reason I have no interest in purchasing from forgeworld currently, but I wouldn’t consider it boycotting them.

The orcs I specifically wanted I bought on ebay.



I got lucky, nobody else bid and I bought a Forge World orc BSB at starting price. Things like this happen sometimes.
So the long and the short of it is, while I am not boycotting Forge World I will not be reversing my trend of not buying anything from them anytime soon.

The only other thing I wanted from Forge World since they stopped making the Eldar Aurora was this:



Mantic sells this at less than half the price:



Not 40K, I know, I know, but whether or not one buys from Forrge World applies to all the lines they do.

I bet the numbers have dropped now that the new AM tank has been announced.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
I bet the numbers have dropped now that the new AM tank has been announced.

Which one. A link for my curiosity.

I like looking at Forge World tanks on websites, its as close as I want to get towards buying one.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/09/14/battle-tanks-from-the-age-of-darkness/

Here are the rules

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/Downloads//Carnodon_Datasheet.pdf

Its pretty good tank for a gun platform, starting out at 60pts in what a Rhino chassis should be and what it "Might be."

A weird hybrid of a russ and predator? If anything this makes me less inclined to buy it. I don't ply 30k and I really prefer to avoid using any relic units outside of special occasions. It's becoming increasingly annoying that the line between the two is getting blurry and that the IOM is constantly finding new (old ) units.

Not boycotting per se, but no way will I be paying those prices for Forgeworld models right now. I don't own much Forgeworld anyway. A Malanthrope is about the most significant piece of Forgeworld I own.