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 ClockworkZion wrote:
Guard giving extra CP at the start of the game wasn't as much of an issue as them giving 2-3 extra turns of maxed out CP usage due to regeneration.

We couldn't turn 1 deep strike for several editions. It was basically broken the way it worked with being able to charge out of DS and made the completely game into "roll dice, remove models" if you went second and got locked into your deployment zone.

Page 27 – Chaplain Dreadnought
Add the following ability to this datasheet:
‘Dreadnought Character: This model may not be given any relics.‘

Did I miss a broken combo here? Surprised this was even a problem considering how few relics it could even take to start with.

IDK about you guys. For my gaming group - turn 1 deep strike was liked very much. If you asked people their favorite part about the edition - they would probably say "I like the new deep strike rules". IDK if my community is widely different than other ones - this seemed to be a something most people liked about 8th at the beginning. Deep strike is useless now except in a few situations.

 Valkyrie wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Huh, that's weird. There's a Tau FAQ on the French site, but not the English.

Working fine on the English for me.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/warhammer_40000_tau_empire_en-1.pdf

Ok, well that's really weird because I just don't see it on my screen.
I see the Rulebook, Necrons, xenos 1, nids, knight, imperial armor, craftworlds, deathguard, big faq, kill team, Dark Eldar and Demons.

But not Space Wolves, Space Marines, Chaos, Grey Knights, or Tau.

Edit : Oh now it does. I have to manually refresh the page for it to show, not just go to the link. Crappy site is crap.

Still no CSM, GK or Admech though.

40k September FAQ wrote:‘Use this Stratagem when you set up a Raven Guard Infantry unit from your army during deployment. At the start of the first battle round but before the first turn begins, you can move that unit up to 9". It cannot end this move
within 9" of any enemy models.

Is this treated as a normal move, ie; my Marines with a 6" move can only move up to 6"? Can they advance as part of this move?

 Xenomancers wrote:

IDK about you guys. For my gaming group - turn 1 deep strike was liked very much. If you asked people their favorite part about the edition - they would probably say "I like the new deep strike rules". IDK if my community is widely different than other ones - this seemed to be a something most people liked about 8th at the beginning. Deep strike is useless now except in a few situations.

Um. No. I think it was widely hated.

1st turn stuff in your face is just no game at all. 1st turn shooty stuff like Ravagers in your own zone now has the opportunity cost of losing a turn of shooting. I like the new rule a lot. Slightly random reserves as in 7th would be best, but most people don't like the randomness, I suppose.

 Valkyrie wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Damn, Raven Guard, Alpha Legion and all other "DS during deployment" shenanigans got shafted hard.

To be fair, they were VERY strong and needed a change to be more balanced with the idea of not having players getting mass locked into their deployment zones by a massed alpha strike. You can still kite a single unit into your opponent's lines, but those are usually CP driven or psychic power driven and either way don't usually work on more than 1 unit a turn meaning that you don't get pinned in as hard, making the game less of a passive "roll dice, remove models" simulator for people going second.

I think a one-use limit would have been better personally, and I say this as an RG player who only ever used it on one unit anyway.

Was that unit Aggressors? I would have been happy with a 1-3 unit limit (1 CP per unit) but honestly RG likely only got dragged in to match the other armies who were benefiting from it a lot more.

Darsath wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Guard giving extra CP at the start of the game wasn't as much of an issue as them giving 2-3 extra turns of maxed out CP usage due to regeneration.

We couldn't turn 1 deep strike for several editions. It was basically broken the way it worked with being able to charge out of DS and made the completely game into "roll dice, remove models" if you went second and got locked into your deployment zone.

My main point is that Imperial Knights will still require extra Command Points from another source, such as Imperial Guard, to operate at the maximum power that they can. They might not use all their Command Points at once now, and the CP regen is now down, but the army will still need that injection of Command Points to really be operational. I don't really see how this changes things overall.

And yeah, I called out the turn 1 deep strike thing when 8th was revealed.

The CP IV turned into a CP booster shot. You get a splash of extra CP which gets things going, but you're not going to be getting to go full tilt on CP expenditure and take that past turn 2. It means the amount of CP spent per turn will either go down or the army will be left without the ability to rotate ion shields.

It also means that the Smashcaptain/Knight combo is basically dead in the water because you'll burn up all your CP basically turn 1 if you go all in on the combos right off the bat.

 Xenomancers wrote:
These changes are garbage.

I will sum them up.

Only 1 command point generated per round max for regen traits (they are basically worthless now) Meanwhile. IG still generate 5 cp and 32 bodies for 180 points.

BA captain is barely touched. Only costs 1 more CP potentially to kill 500 point models for 130 points.

Can't deep strike turn 1 at all anymore. Garbage.

All infiltrate stratagems turned into scout moves. (This might actually be a good change but it just means these armies won't be played anymore - pretty hilarious Admech and Ravengaurd are on the list of MUST NERF)

Moving a unit twice and assaulting turn 1 is totally fine though. Eldar still reign supreme.

Oh and agents of vect goes up 1 CP - I'm sure that will stop it from competely removing some armies from that game still.

Weak changes - GW needs new leadership.

Glad to see we went from hyperbolic sky is falling whining all the way to vitriolic crybaby whining without once actually playing a game with the changes.

Dakka gonna dakka.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Damn, Raven Guard, Alpha Legion and all other "DS during deployment" shenanigans got shafted hard.

To be fair, they were VERY strong and needed a change to be more balanced with the idea of not having players getting mass locked into their deployment zones by a massed alpha strike. You can still kite a single unit into your opponent's lines, but those are usually CP driven or psychic power driven and either way don't usually work on more than 1 unit a turn meaning that you don't get pinned in as hard, making the game less of a passive "roll dice, remove models" simulator for people going second.

I think a one-use limit would have been better personally, and I say this as an RG player who only ever used it on one unit anyway.

Was that unit Aggressors? I would have been happy with a 1-3 unit limit (1 CP per unit) but honestly RG likely only got dragged in to match the other armies who were benefiting from it a lot more.
.

Funnily enough no, I've never owned Aggressors. It was a unit of 10 Reivers, saves 20pts on Grav Chutes, and they can get stuck in straight away.

 Xenomancers wrote:
IDK about you guys. For my gaming group - turn 1 deep strike was liked very much. If you asked people their favorite part about the edition - they would probably say "I like the new deep strike rules". IDK if my community is widely different than other ones - this seemed to be a something most people liked about 8th at the beginning. Deep strike is useless now except in a few situations.

A lot of people liked it, but with how the game worked it too heavily skewed who went first and punished armies that lacked proper chaffe unit options. It was fine in the index days when we had less ways to drop an entire army in the opponent's table half turn 1, but now the game needs to rebalance that.

Codex: Craftworlds, pages 91 and 94 – Illic Nightspear and Rangers, Appear Unbidden
Change the last sentence of this ability to read:
‘At the end of any of your Movement phases, this unit can emerge from the webway – set this unit up anywhere on
the battlefield that is more than 9" away from any enemy models.’

So does this mean that:
A) They no longer appear at the end of the deployment? and
B) I cannot even bring in my Rangers unit the end of my 2nd turn movement phase?

I am actually ok with this considering how important they are any my only Troop option.

Also, do Battalions still give 5CPs? If this FAQ overrides the previous one, then maybe CPs are back to BRB default.

-

 Xenomancers wrote:


BA captain is barely touched. Only costs 1 more CP potentially to kill 500 point models for 130 points.

BA Captain is super easy to screen out now. He can't jump over units during his charge. You'll have to drop in a screen clearing unit alongside the captain if you wan't him to make it into combat.

 rollawaythestone wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:


BA captain is barely touched. Only costs 1 more CP potentially to kill 500 point models for 130 points.

BA Captain is super easy to screen out now. He can't jump over units during his charge. You'll have to drop in a screen clearing unit alongside the captain if you wan't him to make it into combat.

What changes that?

Fly rules have changed. You only move over intervening models and terrain in the MOVEMENT phase.

I don't like the change, personally.

Page 177 – Moving
Change the second paragraph to read:
‘If the datasheet for a model says it can Fly, then during
the Movement phase it can move across models and
terrain as if they were not there.’

 Galef wrote:

Also, do Battalions still give 5CPs? If this FAQ overrides the previous one, then maybe CPs are back to BRB default.

-

They were and still are a change in the Core Rulebook FAQ. Battalions still give 5 CP.

 rollawaythestone wrote:
Fly rules have changed. You only move over intervening models and terrain in the MOVEMENT phase.

I don't like the change, personally.

They did it to bring the smashcaptains down a notch (it also knocks jetbike units down a peg as well, so Shining Spears and Custodes bikes won't be quite as strong either).

Plus they wanted to get rid of things like the 2" charge from the top of a building.

 Galef wrote:

Codex: Craftworlds, pages 91 and 94 – Illic Nightspear and Rangers, Appear Unbidden
Change the last sentence of this ability to read:
‘At the end of any of your Movement phases, this unit can emerge from the webway – set this unit up anywhere on
the battlefield that is more than 9" away from any enemy models.’

So does this mean that:
A) They no longer appear at the end of the deployment? and
B) I cannot even bring in my Rangers unit the end of my 2nd turn movement phase?

I am actually ok with this considering how important they are any my only Troop option.

Also, do Battalions still give 5CPs? If this FAQ overrides the previous one, then maybe CPs are back to BRB default.

-

You can still do it Turn One I think as it has it's own rule rather than using the deep strike rule. It does mean that you are giving up some of the battlefield in deployment though, which might make me think about other troop choices over all rangers (Good, now I don't have to buy anymore Rangers).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 rollawaythestone wrote:
Fly rules have changed. You only move over intervening models and terrain in the MOVEMENT phase.

I don't like the change, personally.

They did it to bring the smashcaptains down a notch (it also knocks jetbike units down a peg as well, so Shining Spears and Custodes bikes won't be quite as strong either).

Plus they wanted to get rid of things like the 2" charge from the top of a building.

And harlequins get hit hard...since we won't be able to charge through walls and avoid overwatch. Not a terrible change IMHO, will just rely more on the relics and vehicles to absorb or ignore overwatch.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 rollawaythestone wrote:
Fly rules have changed. You only move over intervening models and terrain in the MOVEMENT phase.

I don't like the change, personally.

They did it to bring the smashcaptains down a notch (it also knocks jetbike units down a peg as well, so Shining Spears and Custodes bikes won't be quite as strong either).

Plus they wanted to get rid of things like the 2" charge from the top of a building.

They could have changed the vertical distance measurement without changing the ability to move over units. I agree it tones down those overly strong units, but it hurts things that didn't need the nerf like Harlequins.

I think they also wanted to get rid of consolidating/pile-ins (and heroically intervening) over models to lock them in place.

Makes it much more interesting if you actually can try to defend against it with model-placement, rather than being helpless. Makes it .. well ... a game.

 Galef wrote:

Codex: Craftworlds, pages 91 and 94 – Illic Nightspear and Rangers, Appear Unbidden
Change the last sentence of this ability to read:
‘At the end of any of your Movement phases, this unit can emerge from the webway – set this unit up anywhere on
the battlefield that is more than 9" away from any enemy models.’

So does this mean that:
A) They no longer appear at the end of the deployment? and
B) I cannot even bring in my Rangers unit the end of my 2nd turn movement phase?

I am actually ok with this considering how important they are any my only Troop option.

Also, do Battalions still give 5CPs? If this FAQ overrides the previous one, then maybe CPs are back to BRB default.

-

It doesn't override. The previous one is still up, and the new one even references the rules changes made in it.

Lemondish wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
These changes are garbage.

I will sum them up.

Only 1 command point generated per round max for regen traits (they are basically worthless now) Meanwhile. IG still generate 5 cp and 32 bodies for 180 points.

BA captain is barely touched. Only costs 1 more CP potentially to kill 500 point models for 130 points.

Can't deep strike turn 1 at all anymore. Garbage.

All infiltrate stratagems turned into scout moves. (This might actually be a good change but it just means these armies won't be played anymore - pretty hilarious Admech and Ravengaurd are on the list of MUST NERF)

Moving a unit twice and assaulting turn 1 is totally fine though. Eldar still reign supreme.

Oh and agents of vect goes up 1 CP - I'm sure that will stop it from competely removing some armies from that game still.

Weak changes - GW needs new leadership.

Glad to see we went from hyperbolic sky is falling whining all the way to vitriolic crybaby whining without once actually playing a game with the changes.

Dakka gonna dakka.

You know what I think this response needs? More adjectives.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 GuardStrider wrote:
*Reads FAQ*
*Cries in Grey Knight*

Wasn't expecting much but no changes at all sucks hard.

December my friend.

The copypasta can be made longer!

The history of Grey Knights, starting from the 7e update:

> After 7e codex: "They're not too good now, maybe in a later FAQ they'll improve!"
> After later FAQ: "They didn't get better, but I'm sure they'll get better in 8th edition!"
> After 8e index: "They're awful now, but they'll get fixed in the FAQ!"
> After index FAQ: "They're still awful, but they'll be good when they get a codex!"
> After codex: "They're really bad, but they'll get fixed in their FAQ!"
> After codex FAQ: "They're awful. However, they'll get fixed for sure in Chapter Approved!"
> After Chapter Approved: "They just got worse. However, I'm sure they'll get better in the March FAQ!"
> After March FAQ: "They got worse again, and didn't even receive any specific fixes despite overwhelming feedback. Just wait until the September FAQ, they're sure to improve!"

And now:

> After September FAQ: "They didn't get any fixes at all despite heavy feedback? Just wait until CA, that's when they'll be fixed!"

GK are stuck with a 2017 FAQ, well at least stuff got changed for other armies. what I don't get is, if they are doing errata to more or less only the stuff that is being played at top tables. No orc errata, no GK, no ad mecha.

Except that this isn't a moving target. This has been known before this FAQ that GK is getting an overhaul in CA.

 rollawaythestone wrote:
Fly rules have changed. You only move over intervening models and terrain in the MOVEMENT phase.

I don't like the change, personally.

Page 177 – Moving
Change the second paragraph to read:
‘If the datasheet for a model says it can Fly, then during
the Movement phase it can move across models and
terrain as if they were not there.’

Hummm - that doesn't say anything about the assault phase though. In any case - that is a bad rule.

It doesn't have to say anything about the Assault Phase. You only get your Fly ability in the Movement phase. Therefore, you can't jump over units etc during charges or consolidates.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Hummm - that doesn't say anything about the assault phase though. In any case - that is a bad rule.

That's the point. No more "fly"-charges, no more "fly"-heroic interventions, no more "fly"-pile ins/consolidates, etc.. etc..

 Xenomancers wrote:

 rollawaythestone wrote:
Fly rules have changed. You only move over intervening models and terrain in the MOVEMENT phase.

I don't like the change, personally.

Page 177 – Moving
Change the second paragraph to read:
‘If the datasheet for a model says it can Fly, then during
the Movement phase it can move across models and
terrain as if they were not there.’

Hummm - that doesn't say anything about the assault phase though. In any case - that is a bad rule.

The change is restricting the benefit to just the movement phase.

This also means you can't charge a Heldrake over a screening unit into an opponent's flyer despite you both being aircraft and not being actually on the ground.

So what you are telling me is - gardsmen are even more important now. LOL.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Spoiler:

 CaptainBetts wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 GuardStrider wrote:
*Reads FAQ*
*Cries in Grey Knight*

Wasn't expecting much but no changes at all sucks hard.

December my friend.

The copypasta can be made longer!

The history of Grey Knights, starting from the 7e update:

> After 7e codex: "They're not too good now, maybe in a later FAQ they'll improve!"
> After later FAQ: "They didn't get better, but I'm sure they'll get better in 8th edition!"
> After 8e index: "They're awful now, but they'll get fixed in the FAQ!"
> After index FAQ: "They're still awful, but they'll be good when they get a codex!"
> After codex: "They're really bad, but they'll get fixed in their FAQ!"
> After codex FAQ: "They're awful. However, they'll get fixed for sure in Chapter Approved!"
> After Chapter Approved: "They just got worse. However, I'm sure they'll get better in the March FAQ!"
> After March FAQ: "They got worse again, and didn't even receive any specific fixes despite overwhelming feedback. Just wait until the September FAQ, they're sure to improve!"

And now:

> After September FAQ: "They didn't get any fixes at all despite heavy feedback? Just wait until CA, that's when they'll be fixed!"

Except that this isn't a moving target. This has been known before this FAQ that GK is getting an overhaul in CA.

Do you have a reliable source on this? To my knowledge the same thing has been said with a few previous upcoming updates.

 bullyboy wrote:

 Galef wrote:

Codex: Craftworlds, pages 91 and 94 – Illic Nightspear and Rangers, Appear Unbidden
Change the last sentence of this ability to read:
‘At the end of any of your Movement phases, this unit can emerge from the webway – set this unit up anywhere on
the battlefield that is more than 9" away from any enemy models.’

So does this mean that:
A) They no longer appear at the end of the deployment? and
B) I cannot even bring in my Rangers unit the end of my 2nd turn movement phase?

I am actually ok with this considering how important they are any my only Troop option.

Also, do Battalions still give 5CPs? If this FAQ overrides the previous one, then maybe CPs are back to BRB default.

-

You can still do it Turn One I think as it has it's own rule rather than using the deep strike rule. It does mean that you are giving up some of the battlefield in deployment though, which might make me think about other troop choices over all rangers (Good, now I don't have to buy anymore Rangers).

It doesn't seem to matter if they have their own rule as everything has it's own rule.
Anything that isn't set up on the table during deployment is Tactical Reserves and thus cannot arrive turn 1
I'm pretty sure that includes Ranges now too.

-

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Guard giving extra CP at the start of the game wasn't as much of an issue as them giving 2-3 extra turns of maxed out CP usage due to regeneration.

We couldn't turn 1 deep strike for several editions. It was basically broken the way it worked with being able to charge out of DS and made the completely game into "roll dice, remove models" if you went second and got locked into your deployment zone.

Page 27 – Chaplain Dreadnought
Add the following ability to this datasheet:
‘Dreadnought Character: This model may not be given any relics.‘

Did I miss a broken combo here? Suprised this was even a problem considering how few relics it could even take to start with.

Space Wolves could do some nice stuff with it I believe.