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 Alpharius wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
I tried to read this thread, but seeing manbabies crying about SJW’s makes my eyes bleed.

Anyhoo, I’m really looking forward to Captain Marvel.

Welcome to the Geek Media forum. I generally feel better about the world when I avoid it.

I can totally understand that.

I’m coming round to the idea though, that if we don’t challenge the toxic manbabies then geek forums will turn into their echo chambers. We all end up looking bad when the wider public comes to associate geek fandom with these kinds of people.

Are you sure you're reading *this* forum and coming to that opinion, and maybe not getting some other place confused with this one?

Because it seems like you are doing that?

No, he's talking about this one, where the same people turn up again and again to claim that sexism and bigotry doesn't happen, no one should talk about it, no one cares anyway and it's all the fault of people who don't want it anyway.

Its a constant of this forum, even if its a relatively small number of posters. And pretty noticeable since at least the Force Awakens threads.

Welcome to the white fragility forum

Honestly some people seem to think that the only genuine racism and sexism is against the poor, misunderstood white male.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Welcome to the white fragility forum

Honestly some people seem to think that the only genuine racism and sexism is against the poor, misunderstood white male.

OR

Some people don't immediately blame the white male when things don't go swimmingly? The Ghostbusters fiasco should have shown you that.

 Just Tony wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Welcome to the white fragility forum

Honestly some people seem to think that the only genuine racism and sexism is against the poor, misunderstood white male.

OR

Some people don't immediately blame the white male when things don't go swimmingly? The Ghostbusters fiasco should have shown you that.

. The ghostbusters fiasco showed me that when a bad script meets bad direction, a bigoted chunk of the geek community will blame and attack the actresses.

Or claim the movie would be irredeemably bad because they saw women in the trailer in lead roles.

And then pretend it was all a conspiracy to make geeks look bad

 Just Tony wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Welcome to the white fragility forum

Honestly some people seem to think that the only genuine racism and sexism is against the poor, misunderstood white male.

OR

Some people don't immediately blame the white male when things don't go swimmingly? The Ghostbusters fiasco should have shown you that.

When the Ghostbusters tried to blame the failure of their crappy film on misogyny, I thought it was hilarious. Never understood why anyone got bend out of shape about it.

 Just Tony wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Welcome to the white fragility forum

Honestly some people seem to think that the only genuine racism and sexism is against the poor, misunderstood white male.

OR

Some people don't immediately blame the white male when things don't go swimmingly? The Ghostbusters fiasco should have shown you that.

I know right, how dare we demand interlectual consistency from these people, that, as public figures who use their platforms to advocate for a set of ideals, they adhere to those ideals and not target one group over another based solely on inalienable differences, I am pretty sure we have a word for that

its not like we have all said pretty much the same thing, leave the silly stuff out of our entertainment, but somehow that translates to a few here as "I hates wamans waaaa waaa"

Best thing in this thread so far though, how polite everyone has been, well done Dakka.

...nah, you're both still seemingly confused, but it's all good!

I think Captain Marvel will do just fine, and be a fun adventure flick, and the minority who are off doing fringe things will be largely ignored, just like they always are.

It will be interesting to see how this plays into Endgame, and if SLJ's potential spoilers actually pan out, or maybe he was just a bit confused about Carol's power set!

 Alpharius wrote:
...nah, you're both still seemingly confused, but it's all good!

I think Captain Marvel will do just fine, and be a fun adventure flick, and the minority who are off doing fringe things will be largely ignored, just like they always are.

It will be interesting to see how this plays into Endgame, and if SLJ's potential spoilers actually pan out, or maybe he was just a bit confused about Carol's power set!

Like i said before i think it will do well too, I hope it does to be honest, I like marvel and marvel movies and I hope with the introduction of captain marvel we eventually get the rogue storyline with her, I would bloody love that as Rogue and Beast are my favourite marvel characters.

Anyone wonder if after end game that they will introduce the Xmen, it would be a good excuse to introduce mutants after the reverse snap or however they reset the universe.

 Formosa wrote:


Anyone wonder if after end game that they will introduce the Xmen, it would be a good excuse to introduce mutants after the reverse snap or however they reset the universe.

I think it could be quite a few years before we see MCU Xmen simply because I assume they have the next few years already planned and in development. Wasn’t there a lot of talk about the next phase concentrating on the Cosmic side of things?

On the other hand, they could start to introduce Xmen characters in other character’s movies. I’d be up for Storm in the next Black Panther movie

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Mostly nerds love to see stuff fail (desperately) through some sociopathic need to see the world burn to feel better about themselves.

For some, Captain Marvel HAS to suck, so they can be in the "in" crowd complaining about it.

As for myself, I assume it will be a fun to watch but horribly by-the-books "hero's journey", just like Black Panther. Black Panther was awesome to watch, but you could see every plot twist a mile off. Its the same as how Dr Strange and Tony Stark went through the EXACT same personal journey, despite being awesomely fun to watch.

I personally don't care if Cpt. marvel is a woman, as long as I have fun in the theatre (though I love strong female leads).

Where the heck do you get this "nerds love to see stuff fail" bull droppings?

I've been a nerd for almost fifty years now and the moments I love the most are moments of SUCCESS. When the rebels beat the Empire, that was the best SW moment. When Kirk beat Khan, that was the best ST moment. When NASA launched the Space Shuttle, it was their shining moment in my memory (technically I was around for the last couple lunar missions but I was too young to remember them). And when the Columbia failed... that was NOT a moment I loved. When the Enterprise D crashed and burned, that was not a moment I loved.

When everything the Rebels fought and died to accomplish was destroyed, that was not a moment I loved.

That may be part and parcel of the younger generation, but I doubt it. It seems to be just you that loves to see the fandom burn with your accusations, not us.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lance845 wrote:
See, I think there is no point in continuing to think the small group who gets pissy about this stuff have as much power or sway as they seem to think.

PROVE that TLJ had more impact on Solo then the release time between 2 other monster releases, the lack of promotion, the poor production reports, and general audiences just not giving a gak about a prequel where we find out how han got his gun and ship?

You can't. And you never will.

I expect that the sales numbers for IX will tell the tale one way or the other. If it bombs, then that's a pretty good sign you're wrong. And if it succeeds with TFA success, then I admit that we were wrong.

Of course, there's always the middle ground - not TFA success but not Solo failure, and leave both of us wrong...

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 Formosa wrote:


Anyone wonder if after end game that they will introduce the Xmen, it would be a good excuse to introduce mutants after the reverse snap or however they reset the universe.

I think it could be quite a few years before we see MCU Xmen simply because I assume they have the next few years already planned and in development. Wasn’t there a lot of talk about the next phase concentrating on the Cosmic side of things?

On the other hand, they could start to introduce Xmen characters in other character’s movies. I’d be up for Storm in the next Black Panther movie

That would be bloody ace, they could keep halley berry possibly too, she isnt too old yet is she? i think she would still fit, imagine a film with the white wolf, storm and tchalla, I would watch it.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
I tried to read this thread, but seeing manbabies crying about SJW’s makes my eyes bleed.

Anyhoo, I’m really looking forward to Captain Marvel.

I'm hopeful for it too, but I don't like SJW stuff in my brainless entertainment, and calling me a manbaby for that rather.... irritates me.

Keep the SJW stuff for movies like Roots and The Color Purple. Serious messages for serious movies WHERE THEY BELONG.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
I tried to read this thread, but seeing manbabies crying about SJW’s makes my eyes bleed.

Anyhoo, I’m really looking forward to Captain Marvel.

I have concerns any time a company or figurehead of a franchise calls out a specific race or gender and tells them they don't matter/ this wasn't made for you/ we don't need your kind.

I have concerns anytime people twist a comment about encouraging more women and minorities into being one about hating white men.

As do I, which is why KK's comments about not needing the white male fanbase is... concerning.

 Formosa wrote:


That would be bloody ace, they could keep halley berry possibly too, she isnt too old yet is she? i think she would still fit, imagine a film with the white wolf, storm and tchalla, I would watch it.

My ideas about what the Xmen should be like are based on only have read the comic for a few years in the late 80’s, but I never liked Halle Berry as Storm. I think she is too old now too (I’m certain she’s over 50). I think the best thing the MCU can do with Xmen is totally reboot it with actors who’ll be able to play those characters for the next 10 years.

who would they get for wolverine and professor X though, stewart and jackman.... pretty big shoes to fill, and i know macalvoy has done an ok job, but he is no stewart


Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh, that girl who played X - 23. she could take over for wolverine ?

 Formosa wrote:
who would they get for wolverine and professor X though, stewart and jackman.... pretty big shoes to fill, and i know macalvoy has done an ok job, but he is no stewart


Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh, that girl who played X - 23. she could take over for wolverine ?

I still like the idea of Tom Hardy as Wolverine. I know he’s Venom, but if Josh Brolin can be both Thanos and Cable ...

Voss wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
I tried to read this thread, but seeing manbabies crying about SJW’s makes my eyes bleed.

Anyhoo, I’m really looking forward to Captain Marvel.

Welcome to the Geek Media forum. I generally feel better about the world when I avoid it.

I can totally understand that.

I’m coming round to the idea though, that if we don’t challenge the toxic manbabies then geek forums will turn into their echo chambers. We all end up looking bad when the wider public comes to associate geek fandom with these kinds of people.

Are you sure you're reading *this* forum and coming to that opinion, and maybe not getting some other place confused with this one?

Because it seems like you are doing that?

No, he's talking about this one, where the same people turn up again and again to claim that sexism and bigotry doesn't happen, no one should talk about it, no one cares anyway and it's all the fault of people who don't want it anyway.

Its a constant of this forum, even if its a relatively small number of posters. And pretty noticeable since at least the Force Awakens threads.

I'll bite. Who?

Name names, if that's your perception of the situation. Because what I've seen is that we have people decrying bad movies as bad movies... and others accusing them of racism and sexism because they don't like a bad movie that happens to feature a female or non-white major character.

Nobody here has called anyone here sexist or racist because they didnt like the movie. I have never seen that happen. Dig up a qoute please? I know you guys like to SAY it happens a lot but i have never actually seen it.

I HAVE seen manchu, you, yodhrim, jonwang, etc... Claim that nobody was hating on ghost busters before we saw any frames of it when all we knew was that the cast would be female (but not who they were yet), or that it wasn't racism/sexism when people got their accounts hacked, or character profiles changed to racial slurs, or so on and so forth.

The very moment anyone mentions that racists or sexists did a thing you immediately claim that your being called that for disliking the film. Again, unless YOU are lumping YOURSELF in with those people nobody is talking about you.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Welcome to the white fragility forum

Honestly some people seem to think that the only genuine racism and sexism is against the poor, misunderstood white male.

And some seem to think that having a non-white, non-male lead makes a bad movie somehow good, and if we disagree it makes us villains instead of merely expressing an opinion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Welcome to the white fragility forum

Honestly some people seem to think that the only genuine racism and sexism is against the poor, misunderstood white male.

OR

Some people don't immediately blame the white male when things don't go swimmingly? The Ghostbusters fiasco should have shown you that.

. The ghostbusters fiasco showed me that when a bad script meets bad direction, a bigoted chunk of the geek community will blame and attack the actresses.

Or claim the movie would be irredeemably bad because they saw women in the trailer in lead roles.

And then pretend it was all a conspiracy to make geeks look bad

Name names. Who here said that?

I don't blame the actors or actresses for anything beyond bad acting. Having not seen the Ghostbusters fiasco I can't rate their acting.

Now the garbage that was TLJ, that I saw. I do not blame the actors and actresses for that garbage. To me they did the best they could with the garbage they were given. The failures of the movie are not their fault. The fault lies with the writing and directors, no one else.

And who was that director? Rian Johnson. In case y'all missed it, a WHITE MALE.

So who do I, the 'sexist, racist' white male blame for the garbage that is TLJ? Another white male.

How am I now the villain for disliking another white male?

 Vulcan wrote:
I'm hopeful for it too, but I don't like SJW stuff in my brainless entertainment, and calling me a manbaby for that rather.... irritates me.

Keep the SJW stuff for movies like Roots and The Color Purple. Serious messages for serious movies WHERE THEY BELONG.

It's remarkable that this is a thread about a Marvel Comics IP and you're saying this. Are you aware that the whole concept of mutants are a metaphor and have been since 1963? That the "Ms. Marvel" name itself, as well as the themes in the comic, were born of and constantly referenced feminism in the late 70s?

Marvel comics have always had political messages and analogies (well, at least since the silver age). If you want to avoid them, better stick to Garfield.

 LunarSol wrote:
No doubt it was a colossal mistake. Apparently the actual call was made by a third stringer looking to show initiative while the guys in charge were unavailable, but its still easily one of the biggest missteps in the MCU.

I don't think I believe this. I mean, I'm not saying you're a liar - not at all - I mean that it just doesn't sound plausible to me. I feel like when you have franchises this large, decisions that big don't get made by third stringers regardless of how ambitious they are.

If anything, I think what you are saying sounds like a trial balloon for backing out and rehiring him, more than the actual facts.

Vulcan wrote: When the Enterprise D crashed and burned, that was not a moment I loved.

It was for me, I ALWAYS hated that design. I'm so glad we got the E, it's the best looking ship ever designed for Trek.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ouze wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
I'm hopeful for it too, but I don't like SJW stuff in my brainless entertainment, and calling me a manbaby for that rather.... irritates me.

Keep the SJW stuff for movies like Roots and The Color Purple. Serious messages for serious movies WHERE THEY BELONG.

It's remarkable that this is a thread about a Marvel Comics IP and you're saying this. Are you aware that the whole concept of mutants are a metaphor and have been since 1963? That the "Ms. Marvel" name itself, as well as the themes in the comic, were born of and constantly referenced feminism in the late 70s?

Marvel comics have always had political messages and analogies (well, at least since the silver age). If you want to avoid them, better stick to Garfield.

If you can't see the difference between something being a subtext within the movie and being the ENTIRETY of the movie, then you never WILL understand his point of view. The condescending Garfield crack tells me you don't WANT to see his point of view.

 Ouze wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
I'm hopeful for it too, but I don't like SJW stuff in my brainless entertainment, and calling me a manbaby for that rather.... irritates me.

Keep the SJW stuff for movies like Roots and The Color Purple. Serious messages for serious movies WHERE THEY BELONG.

It's remarkable that this is a thread about a Marvel Comics IP and you're saying this. Are you aware that the whole concept of mutants are a metaphor and have been since 1963? That the "Ms. Marvel" name itself, as well as the themes in the comic, were born of and constantly referenced feminism in the late 70s?

Marvel comics have always had political messages and analogies (well, at least since the silver age). If you want to avoid them, better stick to Garfield.

 LunarSol wrote:
No doubt it was a colossal mistake. Apparently the actual call was made by a third stringer looking to show initiative while the guys in charge were unavailable, but its still easily one of the biggest missteps in the MCU.

I don't think I believe this. I mean, I'm not saying you're a liar - not at all - I mean that it just doesn't sound plausible to me. I feel like when you have franchises this large, decisions that big don't get made by third stringers regardless of how ambitious they are.

If anything, I think what you are saying sounds like a trial balloon for backing out and rehiring him, more than the actual facts.

Yeah it was and it humanised the bad guys to the point that even though they are evil, you can feel sorry for them, they did a great job of showing "both sides" even though one side was clearly the bad one, take a look at Magnito, a extremist terrorist who is a mutant supremacist, but you still felt for him in spite of that due to his suffering, you could see what led him down the wrong path, Cyclops is another good example of this.

That is a faaaaaar cry from what the comics have now, and the industry is suffering for it, so much so that indie comics outsold mainstream ones.

 Just Tony wrote:

Vulcan wrote: When the Enterprise D crashed and burned, that was not a moment I loved.

It was for me, I ALWAYS hated that design. I'm so glad we got the E, it's the best looking ship ever designed for Trek.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ouze wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
I'm hopeful for it too, but I don't like SJW stuff in my brainless entertainment, and calling me a manbaby for that rather.... irritates me.

Keep the SJW stuff for movies like Roots and The Color Purple. Serious messages for serious movies WHERE THEY BELONG.

It's remarkable that this is a thread about a Marvel Comics IP and you're saying this. Are you aware that the whole concept of mutants are a metaphor and have been since 1963? That the "Ms. Marvel" name itself, as well as the themes in the comic, were born of and constantly referenced feminism in the late 70s?

Marvel comics have always had political messages and analogies (well, at least since the silver age). If you want to avoid them, better stick to Garfield.

If you can't see the difference between something being a subtext within the movie and being the ENTIRETY of the movie, then you never WILL understand his point of view. The condescending Garfield crack tells me you don't WANT to see his point of view.

Man, I don't even know what this means. Maybe if a few more words were CAPITALIZED. Who suggested that anything we were discussing involved subtext vs being the entire movie? That is literally a thing you invented and no one else was debating.

I think Vulcan's point was clear - he doesn't want any references to modern political or social realities in "brainless" escapist comics. He didn't leave room for the subtext or percentage argument you invented. His argument is genuinely bizarre since Marvel Comics specifically have always touched on those theme, as opposed to an actual brainless medium such as garfield or what have you.

 Ouze wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
I'm hopeful for it too, but I don't like SJW stuff in my brainless entertainment, and calling me a manbaby for that rather.... irritates me.

Keep the SJW stuff for movies like Roots and The Color Purple. Serious messages for serious movies WHERE THEY BELONG.

It's remarkable that this is a thread about a Marvel Comics IP and you're saying this. Are you aware that the whole concept of mutants are a metaphor and have been since 1963? That the "Ms. Marvel" name itself, as well as the themes in the comic, were born of and constantly referenced feminism in the late 70s?

Marvel comics have always had political messages and analogies (well, at least since the silver age). If you want to avoid them, better stick to Garfield.

All right, that's a fair criticism. You're right, Marvel has always had political undertones. The anti-mutant discrimination and fear has always been a veiled metaphor for racism.

But one should note that the anti-human forces have always been portrayed as villains every bit as much as the anti-mutant forces. The X-men are the heroes because they stand against racism full stop. Anti-human AND anti-mutant. Anti-woman AND anti-man. Anti-black, anti-Asian, anti-Indian, anti-Mexican... and anti-white.

Tearing down one does not make the other strong. Raising everyone to the same level of respect together makes everyone strong.

Magneto isnt a white supremesist analog.

If professor x is martin luther king jr then magneto is malcom x.

He isnt a supremesist. He is angry and thinks violence is the only language the oppressor understands.

Thats not "both sides". Its 2 ideologies fighting for the same thing. Trask and the sentinal program is "the other side". The purifiers. Weapon x. THOSE are your supremesit analogs.

 Formosa wrote:
That is a faaaaaar cry from what the comics have now, and the industry is suffering for it, so much so that indie comics outsold mainstream ones.

I haven't read a great many modern comics in the last 10 years or so, so I'll have to take your word for that. I've read some stuff obviously, but nowhere near as much as back in the 90s. And what I have read recently has been (what I think could be called) Indie stuff - a lot of Image stuff.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
who would they get for wolverine and professor X though, stewart and jackman.... pretty big shoes to fill, and i know macalvoy has done an ok job, but he is no stewart


Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh, that girl who played X - 23. she could take over for wolverine ?

I still like the idea of Tom Hardy as Wolverine. I know he’s Venom, but if Josh Brolin can be both Thanos and Cable ...

I never thought of Tom hardy as wolverine but I could see it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lance845 wrote:
Magneto isnt a white supremesist analog.

If professor x is martin luther king jr then magneto is malcom x.

He isnt a supremesist. He is angry and thinks violence is the only language the oppressor understands.

Thats not "both sides". Its 2 ideologies fighting for the same thing. Trask and the sentinal program is "the other side". The purifiers. Weapon x. THOSE are your supremesit analogs.

I never said white supremacist, I said mutant supremacist, and he absolutely is, in fact if we used today's parlance he would be a mutant ethno nationalist, genosha succinctly proves this.

The new age comics, specifically Marvel, suffer for being crap because they are more worried about making sure every nationality has a hero than they are about telling stories about heroes who rise up from their trials and hardships to not only be super heroes, but also be moral heroes that real life people can aspire to be like.

I don’t care that “super smart teen is gifted the iron man costume cuz so smart and awesome”, I care about “person is a warmonger who gets chest caved in by own weapons and builds a protective suit with a reactor to keep heart from shredding in chest cavity, and decides to use said armor for good”. You tell me which is a more compelling story, leaving gender and race out of it, like I just did in the description. One of those is a far better story than the other.

In all honesty, the only thing Marvel really has going for it now IS the MCU.

I don't think anyone actually meant to imply Magneto was a white supremacist analogy, I think that was a crossed wire\miscommunication.

 Ouze wrote:
I don't think anyone actually meant to imply Magneto was a white supremacist analogy, I think that was a crossed wire\miscommunication.

Magneto was an analogy to Malcolm X, Xavier was an analogy to MLK.

Yeah, I got that. I think Lance misunderstood a previous post.