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Made in gb
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Et In Arcadia Ego





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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/18 15:11:13


The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
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Very nice - I'm in!

The Old Lady (Skrull) punch was pretty funny - and nice to see that her helmet/mask will make an at least temporary appearance too.

Looking forward to it!

Insidious Intriguer 
   
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Nice. Curious how much of that de-aging tech they're going to use and nice way to set the time period. Looks like the movie is going to mostly be a Skrull hunt. In some ways it feels more like one of Marvel's earlier movies than their newer stuff. Expecting more of a Dr. Strange than Black Panther, but excited to see how it turns out.
   
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Excited for this. Given the recent Marvel fare has perhaps understandably been more ensemble, switching back to what looks to be a single hero story could be refreshing. And I’d argue the perfect antidote to the crazy brilliant of Infinity War.

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Home Base: Waconia, MN (Minneapolis)

I'm in. Looks pretty good. Also young Fury and young Coulson.

Blockbuster landing to let you know it wasn't current was pretty excellent too

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 Hulksmash wrote:
Blockbuster landing to let you know it wasn't current was pretty excellent too


In the 90's you couldn't fall from space without crashing into a Blockbuster.
   
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UK

I was already looking forward to this, but that trailer has upped my excitement massively. It looks stunning and if the score is anything like the trailer music, it may become one of the best Marvel scores yet
   
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Pleasant Valley, Iowa

Trailer looks terrific.

 Spinner wrote:
It's interesting; I'd think a statement seriously comparing Eldar players or Star Trek fans or middle-aged divorcees or what have you to ISIS would draw a hell of a lot of blowback and some sort of colored text, and yet here it is, barely remarked on.
 
   
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Norwalk, Connecticut

Feth me, that looks incredible!!

Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.

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As much as the MCU keeps telling us Captain Marvel is the strongest/most powerful hero in the MCU, that got me to thinking, who is Marvel's "Superman"?

I'm a lifelong comics fan, and there isn't an easy, obvious answer.

I am stretching it a bit because while Marvel has some that are just like him in terms of powers and origin (Hyperion) and 'overall' strength/ability, none seem to have the same popularity/staying power/pretense today.

Sentry? No way.

Gladiator? He's pretty niche himself.

Blue Marvel? Newish and retcon city, but maybe, but then, who has heard of him?

In the comics, you could argue that Marvel's Superman is Thor, and maybe the new MCU super-charged Thor is on that level now?

So...Captain Marvel? And not Shazam/Captain Marvel, obviously.

I don't seem to ever remember Captain Marvel/Carol D every really being on that level.

Is this an MCU thing then?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/18 17:56:08


Insidious Intriguer 
   
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They don’t need one.

Because a single ‘AND THE ABCDMAN ARRIVES ALL ARE FIX’ is too much of a narrative crutch.

And to be clear, I’m not criticising Supes as a character. He was the first in that pantheon.

But if you have no Supes, it force narrative originality to some degree, a situation which really forces the writer to explore the potential and teamwork dynamic of the roster.

Supes, through not fault of his creators, just does too much. He’s too infallible, and to my mind and my mind alone, really boring because of it.

Compare the JLA to Avengers. Avengers are arguably more heroic because they’re all somehow dysfunctional. JLA? Ah bollocks to it. We’ll just sit and wait for Supes to sort it all out, because compared to him, we’re unavoidably bit part.

Again, this is not a criticism of D.C. as an entity, or Superman as a character. It’s just Supes is so stupid hard, he makes all other characters pointless.

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Aside from the fact that Marvel has quite a few god-like Superman characters?

And it isn't too hard to de-power Superman a bit and make things...more challenging.

(Plus I'm guessing you haven't read a Justice League comic anytime recently?)

Anyway, that wasn't the question, and since the MCU is definitely setting up Captain Marvel in that area of space...

Insidious Intriguer 
   
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Carol has generally always been a pretty heavy hitter. I mean, arguably her most mainstream use is sadly when Rogue absorbed her and acted as something of the X-Men's Superman. Not really Superman powerful, but still a powerhouse. Carol herself has gone through a number of cosmic power boosts over the years as she's returned to the spotlight; notably having the power of a star in her Binary form.

I think Marvel is finding her well suited for the role as their Superman as time goes on and has essentially been testing the waters to figure out the best way to make it happen. They've been building her up as a character for years now; at least since Bendis was writing Avengers. In terms of power, I don't think Marvel really wants or need a real Superman powered character. As a cosmic level character that works as an Avenger, I think they've got her about right.
   
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Quasar and adam warlock are both good candidates for marvels "superman" in terms of sheer power. In fact they probably outclass him.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
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Scotland

I'll see it for Jackson, who's always great, but I'm not sold on the rest.
I'm betting on another CGI heavy, quip loaded Marvel film with a forgettable villain.
   
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Superman's problems are generally in keeping with other speedsters. It's fun to write a two panel joke about stopping a runaway train while someone is yawning but the character doesn't get written that way during actual combat. Superman's just the worst of them because that trope gets used in other ways.

As a character he's still a favorite of mine, but writers regularly fail to realize that Clark Kent is the interesting part of his character. Of powers he doesn't have, the lack of mental domination is probably the most important (mind wiping kisses aside). His interesting struggles are all at a personal level and his best stories almost always revolve around mundane characters that challenge him on levels his powers don't really help with.
   
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LunarSol wrote:Carol has generally always been a pretty heavy hitter. I mean, arguably her most mainstream use is sadly when Rogue absorbed her and acted as something of the X-Men's Superman. Not really Superman powerful, but still a powerhouse. Carol herself has gone through a number of cosmic power boosts over the years as she's returned to the spotlight; notably having the power of a star in her Binary form.

I think Marvel is finding her well suited for the role as their Superman as time goes on and has essentially been testing the waters to figure out the best way to make it happen. They've been building her up as a character for years now; at least since Bendis was writing Avengers. In terms of power, I don't think Marvel really wants or need a real Superman powered character. As a cosmic level character that works as an Avenger, I think they've got her about right.


The MCU looks like they're getting one, and the Marvel comic book setting has plenty but doesn't use them like DC does, and probably doesn't want to either.

That's probably the answer - they don't have one straight up because they don't want one, bet there are plenty of characters around in there that are just like him.

Lance845 wrote:Quasar and adam warlock are both good candidates for marvels "superman" in terms of sheer power. In fact they probably outclass him.


Good point!

Although the MCU has already hinted at their Adam Warlock, and Quasar's nowhere to be found.

Quasar and Adam Warlock have rather confusing origins and stories though, but then so does Carol, more or less.

It'll be interesting to see what version we get with Carol, whose origin looks to be told largely via flashbacks I think?

Insidious Intriguer 
   
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We'll find out soon enough eh.

I'm very interested in the film, but TBH I have to agree with a criticism I've seen people making elsewhere; Brie Larson just looks kinda bored most of the time. Maybe there's some story reason for it I'm not familiar with the character, but you get what, one half-smile and one slight grimace in the trailer and otherwise just blank.

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I was hoping to see the whole mess that Miss Marvel had to go through in the 70's (or was it the 80's) where she was kidnapped and impregnated and the rest of the Avengers team just laughed it off.

Also, I was really hoping for Rogue.

I really do not know much about Captain Marvel, apart from the cosmic upgrades that is.

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Yodhrin wrote:I'm very interested in the film, but TBH I have to agree with a criticism I've seen people making elsewhere; Brie Larson just looks kinda bored most of the time. Maybe there's some story reason for it I'm not familiar with the character, but you get what, one half-smile and one slight grimace in the trailer and otherwise just blank.


Well it is just the first trailer, and to be honest, I didn't have that takeaway at all.

StygianBeach wrote:I was hoping to see the whole mess that Miss Marvel had to go through in the 70's (or was it the 80's) where she was kidnapped and impregnated and the rest of the Avengers team just laughed it off.

Also, I was really hoping for Rogue.



None of that had any chance of actually happening in this movie.

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 Mysterio wrote:

None of that had any chance of actually happening in this movie.


Yeah, too much like Watchmen.

"What do you want?"
"I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I'd look up at your lifeless eyes and wave like this. Can you and your associates arrange it for me, Mr. Morden?"
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Home Base: Waconia, MN (Minneapolis)

 Yodhrin wrote:
I'm very interested in the film, but TBH I have to agree with a criticism I've seen people making elsewhere; Brie Larson just looks kinda bored most of the time. Maybe there's some story reason for it I'm not familiar with the character, but you get what, one half-smile and one slight grimace in the trailer and otherwise just blank.


Went back and watched since sometimes you can see something you didn't see after someone mentions it and nope. Not the vibe I got. Outside of her having all of 1 actual "line" in the trailer where she seems fine most of the trailer seems to revolve around her stoic moments so I'm not surprised she looks like she's working up to fight in 80% of the trailer, cause those are the scenarios they gave us.

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We'll find out soon enough eh.

 Hulksmash wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
I'm very interested in the film, but TBH I have to agree with a criticism I've seen people making elsewhere; Brie Larson just looks kinda bored most of the time. Maybe there's some story reason for it I'm not familiar with the character, but you get what, one half-smile and one slight grimace in the trailer and otherwise just blank.


Went back and watched since sometimes you can see something you didn't see after someone mentions it and nope. Not the vibe I got. Outside of her having all of 1 actual "line" in the trailer where she seems fine most of the trailer seems to revolve around her stoic moments so I'm not surprised she looks like she's working up to fight in 80% of the trailer, cause those are the scenarios they gave us.


But that's been how she's looked in most of the promo shots and leaked set pics as well. Stoic is all well and good, but I hope there's more to her portrayal than that - Stark's default emotional mode was "smug", but there was more to the character and RDJ's performance, and even looking at similar characters Melissa Benoist's Supergirl managed more range in the promo materials for that show than I've seen from Larson so far.

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"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
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Home Base: Waconia, MN (Minneapolis)

Agree to disagree Yodhrin. I don't think the Supergirl character Benoist is playing is a comparable character to this Captain Marvel outside of range of powers. Additionally Brie Larson has a pretty extensive resume of comedy and drama with an action or two tossed in and in most of those she's been pretty dang good. So I'm willing to bet that someone at that level will be fine in the Marvel machine.

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 Hulksmash wrote:
Agree to disagree Yodhrin. I don't think the Supergirl character Benoist is playing is a comparable character to this Captain Marvel outside of range of powers. Additionally Brie Larson has a pretty extensive resume of comedy and drama with an action or two tossed in and in most of those she's been pretty dang good. So I'm willing to bet that someone at that level will be fine in the Marvel machine.


Agree.

Keep in mind that Carol Danvers is first and foremost a soldier. Stoic is how she do.

On top of that, this trailer makes it look like she was abducted by the kree, augmented to have her powers, and then mind wiped and turned into a weapon for the Kree/Skrull War. If all that is true then each of these situations we are seeing in the trailer is her ready to be fighting the next fight in a war that is potentially all she has ever known.


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 Mysterio wrote:
who is Marvel's "Superman"?

Is this an MCU thing then?


Marvel doesn't really have a Superman, because it's not in their nature to have an all-powerful superhero, and certainly not on Earth. Where DC is about superlatives (e.g. "fastest", "greatest") hiding behind paper-thin disguises, Marvel has this notion of more limited superheroes who are also flawed, making them relatable. It's literally the difference between Spiderman, who is a poor (but brilliant) teenager barely scraping by selling pictures to his jerk boss, and Superman being the best of the best of the best.

That said, the closest mainstream Marvel equivalent would be the Silver Surfer, a cosmic-level superhero who travels dramatically faster than light, wielding the power cosmic. He starts as an antagonist to the Fantastic Four, hence his extreme power level, before he turns to the good guys.

The direct Marvel equivalent would be Hyperion of the Squadron Supreme, who was absolutely NOT modeled after Superman and the Justice League. Not in the slightest. Nope.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Lance845 wrote:
Keep in mind that Carol Danvers is first and foremost a soldier. Stoic is how she do.


Not nearly as much as the literally star-spangled sheildbearer, and we've seen how difficult he is to write for as a solo character, which is precisely why we're seeing CM within a team context and getting an origin story.


BTW, is it just me, or is this explicitly and deliberately Feminist-friendly in the same vein as the Wonder Woman movie? It's not a bad thing. Even mind-wiped, she's a far better face of Marvel women than the castrated and murderous Black Widow.

[ETA - it is, which is fine; I hope it pulls enough of the 52% to cover for any who are upset that it's not another white male lead]

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/09/19 05:03:24


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See, Cap IS a soldier but I wouldn't say cap is first and foremost a soldier. He doesn't follow orders particularly well. He doesn't do the dirty work for the greater good. I think cap first and foremost is an idealist who just so happens to have the power to fight from the front for those ideals.

Carol Danvers on the other hand is going to do the mission. You give her an objective and set some parameters and she will get the job done. She has her moral scruples but I think when push comes to shove the mission comes first.

For Cap, the mission never comes before doing whats right.

"No. But it should. We don't trade lives."

Carol Danvers might have felt bad about it. But she would have agreed that killing vision was the most direct tactical action to complete the objective.


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Looks interesting. I want to see how they do the Kree/Skrull war.

   
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I liked it, but my expectations were high and it was a little underwhelming. I feel teased, which I guess was the purpose. Hopefully, the next trailer will really nail it.

Still looking forward to the movie next March.
   
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I see only ONE issue with this trailer...



I now realize that I need about twelve movies with Jude Law as Mar-Vell and that will not happen. Even money on him dying heroically to save Carol, so she names her superhero identity after him.

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