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I'm not sure but what we'll get an epic cliffhanger to rival even the famous Star Trek TNG: Best of Both Worlds Part 1 ending: "Mr. Worf, fire." TO BE CONTINUED... And then we have to wait until October 2021 for the conclusion.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I'm not sure but what we'll get an epic cliffhanger to rival even the famous Star Trek TNG: Best of Both Worlds Part 1 ending: "Mr. Worf, fire." TO BE CONTINUED... And then we have to wait until October 2021 for the conclusion.

That’s what I’m thinking too. A single episode, even at a likely extended run time just doesn’t strike me as enough to cover it all off.

In other news, Bo-Katan has finally got her own action figure.

That’s right, Constable Not-Appearing-In-This-Film got a figure before a character that played solid roles in both Clone Wars and Rebels.

Nice one, Hasbro. Thanks, Hasbro. Thasbro.

 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:
I mean if you name drop Thrawn and both "Rangers of the Republic" and "Ashoka" are, at some point, going to link with the Mandalorian I imagine a scene with Thrawn is a possibility as the last shot of the season.

I very much doubt Thrawn will appear in the Mandalorian. He was name-dropped purely as part of introducing the Ahsoka spin-off.

I expect this last episode will be Din and his band of merry sidekicks rescuing Grogu, possibly killing Gideon and recovering the Darksaber, but then all being trapped by an overwhelming Dark Trooper force before a New Republic task force and/or the mystery Jedi Grogu contacted arrive at the last minute to kick things up a notch, with the battle concluding next season.

Hoping they don't take the opportunity to kill off Fett so Din can take Slave 1, but it wouldn't surprise me.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I'm not sure but what we'll get an epic cliffhanger to rival even the famous Star Trek TNG: Best of Both Worlds Part 1 ending: "Mr. Worf, fire." TO BE CONTINUED... And then we have to wait until October 2021 for the conclusion.

You'll be disappointed, they've announced the S3 premiere is Christmas Day next year.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
There is no way we dont get atleast a teaser of the jedi who is coming to pick Grogu up, who is gonna be Ezra.

You assume it’ll be a Jedi, do you?

insaniak, I think you’ve nailed it with your prediction

I've seen some mention of "Operation Cinder" getting namedropped in The Mandalorian--is that true?

Because dayum if so. Cinder was a Big Deal.

Yes, it was brought up in the latest episode.

Holy hell. That's huge! Is it mentioned as like going on or already happened or soon to come?


Spoiler block incoming. Glad to hear these threads of EU are all coming together! I never expected to hear this namedropped though...


I'll be waiting to hear about the finale now.

Bill Burr's character showed up in the first season as an ex imperial sniper part of a crew that was breaking into a new republic prisoner transport to break out some prisoners. He was all about killing the few republic officers on the ship mostly manned by droids.

My personal guess for Friday is:

Mando and his ragtag band overcome many obstacles to rescue Grogu only with 1:35 left in the episode for a First Order Star Destroyer to arrive and everyone poop their pants.

To Be Continued...

Why FO rather than Thrawn? Thrawn's story is in the Ashoka series and I can totally see Mando trying to win over the fans with a G8 H8 for the sequel trilogy by fleshing out the FO.

Alternate twist. They overcome many obstacles to reach Grogu blow open the cell door and...

A smiling and giggling Grogu starts force choking them.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
My personal guess for Friday is:

Mando and his ragtag band overcome many obstacles to rescue Grogu only with 1:35 left in the episode for a First Order Star Destroyer to arrive and everyone poop their pants.

To Be Continued...

Why FO rather than Thrawn? Thrawn's story is in the Ashoka series and I can totally see Mando trying to win over the fans with a G8 H8 for the sequel trilogy by fleshing out the FO.

Alternate twist. They overcome many obstacles to reach Grogu blow open the cell door and...

A smiling and giggling Grogu starts force choking them.

first order isn't around dude. it's only 5 years after endor.


personally I think they'll find Grogu, fight the moff, the moff'll escape. and the Mandalorian will realize that the moff will ALWAYS be a threat. season 3 will be focused on hunting down the moff and putting an end to the threat. with season 3 ending with a massive set battle at Mandalore.

One of the reasons I think Gideon might not survive S2 is because S3 could switch focus to this whole Mandalorian restoration plot.

True, I can see Gideon get snuffed.

But with one episode to go, even if it turns out to be double length (I’ve not seen a run time, but admittedly haven’t looked terribly hard) there’s almost certainly going to be a cliff hanger.

My main concern is what feels like deliberate misdirection as to the size of Gideon’s forces. I don’t for a second believe he’s just got that one Light Cruiser. For a start, we know his forces had at least one Gozanti. And I can’t see him spending his troops as we’ve seen so far without further reserves, or some way to replenish losses of men and materiel.

And I reckon that’ll be the Big Reveal. I mean, in the Outer Rim, you don’t need a huge fleet to be scary. It just needs to be big enough to outnumber whatever Pirates etc have scraped together.

What might that compromise? I dunno. I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if there’s at least one ISD - though a SSD would be stretching credulity. And I’ve certainly got high hopes the Raider will be seen fully rendered, as it’d a pretty sleek design - and a ship even Slave 1 might struggle with, given its geared toward anti-fighter/freighter screening.

Wondering if Din will end up with a new ship?

Also also.....surely Din must be starting to run short of cash by now? He’s hardly done much Bounty Hunt & Gather since he took custodianship of Grogu!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Also also.....surely Din must be starting to run short of cash by now? He’s hardly done much Bounty Hunt & Gather since he took custodianship of Grogu!

I'm guessing his wallet was on the Razor Crest too...

Put me down for the most epickest of cliffhangers as well.

I don't think Gideon is going to die in this one because he's barely done anything but look sinister and try and get his world dominating scheme off the ground. It's just not time yet for a heroic save. But it is time to fully reveal just how big a threat he really is. And for that Gideon needs to succeed. I don't think that would work if he's seen fail again. Plus, he's set up as Bo Katan's archenemy and unless she got intel on his location off screen, she's not going to swoop in to save Din's behind. She might make an appearance but only for Din to learn they have a common enemy that they can team up against in the future. He might even give her his spear eventually.

I'm inclined to think we won't even see the rescue of Grogu. He's only just been kidnapped and so far the rescue attempt has worked flawlessly. It's not just time for something to go horribly wrong for the protagonists in order to underline the threat posed by Gideon, but I got the impression that the Imperials wanted Grogu alive because they would prefer an ongoing source of Force juice to harvest and getting the little blighter dead was only ever the consolation prize. Which suggests that whatever plan they have takes a little more time than passed between the abduction and the upcoming rescue attempt. To me the show seems set up to escalate from a personal matter for one dude in a shiny suit to galactic levels of interest, and for that Gideon needs to be a credible threat that, as per the only source of New Republic dealings we've had so far, he just isn't at this time. I don't think Gideon can fail in his endeavor yet or, so to speak, the show is over before it even started.

Therefore I think Din is going to go in with as small and unnoteworthy a crew as he can gather. No Bo Katan, no Ahsoka, just him and his buddies (and Boba) getting in over their heads without realizing it, pulling off a spectacular rescue against impossible odds only to fail at the last minute and barely making it out alive without the little green guy, possibly saved by Bo Katan for the aforementioned future team-up. Gideon gets to look smug in his victory shot and the episode ends with a little glimmer of hope when a despondent Din is approached by the mystery force user Grogu contacted.

I guess it wouldn't be Star Wars without the second installment leaving the bad guys with the upper hand, or seeming to...

Gideon is already a credible threat. He’s already had some major successes. The end of the last episode shows the moment of the tide finally turning against him, with Din threatening him with his own words.

I don’t think Gideon is Bo Katan’s arch enemy, Her enemy is anyone who stands in the way of her goal of world domination — which might come to include Din, I think Bo Katan herself is already being set up as a villain rather than a hero.

MarkNorfolk wrote:
I guess it wouldn't be Star Wars without the second installment leaving the bad guys with the upper hand, or seeming to...

There's that. Rebels did it, too, and that was a Filoni show as well.

 Manchu wrote:
Gideon is already a credible threat. He’s already had some major successes. The end of the last episode shows the moment of the tide finally turning against him, with Din threatening him with his own words.

I don’t think Gideon is Bo Katan’s arch enemy, Her enemy is anyone who stands in the way of her goal of world domination — which might come to include Din, I think Bo Katan herself is already being set up as a villain rather than a hero.

But a credible threat to whom? We see him succeed in abducting a child and shooting up an Outer Rim backwater mostly populated by his own guys. His biggest success is taking out a covert of Mandalorians. And that happens off screen.

Everything else is only hints and the audience's meta knowledge:

- He's doing some Force research on Baby Yoda, the kid whose name we didn't learn until halfway through the second season and that we literally associate with the wisest and most powerful Jedi we know. But we haven't actually seen anything come of it.

- He has Dark Troopers that haven't been a thing for over 20 years in real life and that we don't have the slightest clue how they work in modern Star Wars. We assume they're awesome both because we remember the old ones and the way they are introduced and handled in the show, but we haven't actually seen them do anything worthwhile. Their single deployment so far could have just as easily been handled by jetpack troopers.

- He has been revealed to be an ISB agent, which by itself isn't anything spectacular, who oversaw the purge of Mandalore. We can speculate how that makes him an effective field commander and strategist, but we don't know what troops he had at his disposal, if he fought a unified or splintered Mandalore, if he had any Mandalorians on his side or anything else that would detail how he succeeded. All of his success is off screen and in the past, with very little detail. We can more easily speculate about the state of Mandalore and the purge from Rebels in which Gideon didn't feature than we do from the show in which he is actually in.

- He carries the Darksaber as a status symbol. We know more about the Darksaber than we do about Gideon and him holding it works more through suggestion than anything else. Did he win it legitimately, in the Mandalorian way? Probably not, since the last wielder is still alive. Does he know how to use it? Does it bestow any claim to power on him as was traditionally the case with the saber? We have not been shown.

- He has (or had) at least two space ships and plenty of smaller craft as well as an endless supply of Stormtroopers and he acts as if he can lose any of these in pursuit of this goals without setting him back. Except for the suggestion that there's plenty more where all that came from, because every episode that features his forces actually comes with plenty more that is used in the exact same way, all we ever see him succeed him in is losing troops and materiel.

- He has the funds and the good sense to clandestinely operate in order to keep the New Republic from taking an interest in his operations. That is, until he comes out and reveals himself. Bo Katan is after him as well. So it's not like he's even halfway as capable as Palpi orchestrating the rise of the Emperor.Discounting the protagonist of the Mandalorian who isn't relevant in the grand scheme of things (yet), we have a significant faction leader of Mandalore on Gideon's trail and some space cops investigating his activities in the name of the New Republic. We don't know how the latter will turn out yet, but so far there's no hint suggesting he is anymore likely to stay hidden than that he is revealed to the foremost galactic power.

We have plenty of hints and there is solid groundwork for setting Gideon up as some masterful bad guy that is up to something monstrous, but precious little of it is actually shown. In the context of a cinematic history that actually showed us clone and droid factories cranking out a gigantic war machine, Death Stars in action, a manipulative Sith Lord that managed to trick the order of the Jedi to go down the road of self-destruction, Thrawn setting up the fledgling Rebellion for extermination in one fell swoop and succeeding to a large degree, and a fair few other things beside that, the Mandalorian in my opinion simply hasn't shown Gideon do anything noteworthy yet. It's all set up to happen, but hasn't yet, which is why I don't believe they'll bump him off for a quick and cheap happy season ending. It's too early with too little exposition.

As for Bo Katan, I don't quite think you're doing her justice by putting her in a hero or villain category. Mandalorians in Clone Wars and Rebels have always strongly stood with their factions' ideals and fought anyone, including other Mandalorians, that didn't see things their way. In the context of larger conflicts that had clearer hero and villain setups that consistently put them at odds with both heroes and villains at different times because they fought their own fight and allied with whomever happened to further their cause at the time, with not a moment's hesitation to drop out of an alliance if it didn't develop in the right direction.

Agreed on the idea that she will pursue the unification of what's left of Mandalore under her rule at the expense of anything else, but I think given Mandalorian history it's safe to claim that this is fully focused around the Darksaber and the one that holds it, which right now is Gideon. The Darksaber is her claim to power and possession of it is the only thing that matters to Bo Katan. But I don't think this will be framed as villainy in a show whose political focus is the New Republic and the Empire, and their respective shortcomings. An independent Mandalore, I should think, would be presented more as a political fact rather than a point of contention, and given the protagonist is Mandalorian himself who was raised a traditionalist but has now shown to be willing to compromise to an extent, I have a hard time believing that a similarly if not quite as devoted traditionalist Bo Katan would be particularly upsetting to Din if she became the rightful ruler of Mandalore.

Gideon has been established as a credible threat to the protagonists of the show. Your post is an excellent analysis of how/why.

Is he a threat to the New Republic? Carson seems to think so (or rather, Carson correctly suspects that some Imperial warlord is behind all the trouble in the Rim) but what he says to Cara indicates his superiors aren’t listening to him. Yet.

I think, let’s say, at least a couple of X-Wings will show up to help Din & Co. in the season finale.

But this show is not about the conflict between government factions; it’s about individual characters. In this context, Gideon is a clear threat — moreso than the Empire generally. And that’s the same context in which Bo Katan could become a villain, or (more specifically) an antagonist for Din, in S3. She gets a real crazy look in her eyes when she starts monologuing to our increasingly skeptical main character about her dreams of world domination.

That certainly makes sense.

I have a somewhat different outlook because I don't expect (and never did) the show to remain Din and Grogu's Adventures Across the Galaxy. I always expected to get considerable exposition of the political landscape after the fall of the Empire because previous Filoni shows did a good job of fleshing out the setting beyond the main characters and wouldn't expect the Mandalorian to let the opportunity pass to do some wide ranging world building.

As such my perspective revolves around the grand scheme of things.

Yes, that is certainly something that, as a lifelong SW fan, I am also VERY interested in (see for example my comments in the Andor and Rogue Squadron threads). That said, I don’t think The Mandalorian is the right venue for high-level political stories. It’s appeal comes from being on the literal fringe of the big show.

 Geifer wrote:
That certainly makes sense.

I have a somewhat different outlook because I don't expect (and never did) the show to remain Din and Grogu's Adventures Across the Galaxy. I always expected to get considerable exposition of the political landscape after the fall of the Empire because previous Filoni shows did a good job of fleshing out the setting beyond the main characters and wouldn't expect the Mandalorian to let the opportunity pass to do some wide ranging world building.

As such my perspective revolves around the grand scheme of things.

We’re definitely seeing the familiar, and for me welcome, Filoni formula (filonula?) in play.

First, he gives us a season largely focussed on our protagonists. A chance to get to know them, their lives and their motivations. Whilst this is done to the back drop of a familiar galaxy, it’s kept pretty small scale.

Season 2 is when he starts to show us how they, their lives and their actions fold into the Grander Scheme of things. At this point we get guest stars, Easter eggs and call backs etc.

Season 3 is when our protagonists start to play a more important (but not necessarily critical) part of the wider mythos. This is when the stakes are raised, lowered, raised and lowered. They face greater adversity, and typically get decent development.

I reckon Season 2 isn’t going to end terribly well for The Good Guys. Instead, I’m expecting a curtain pull (not a rug pull) showing Gideon to be a far graver threat than previously believed.

Now, with that in mind? I’m not ruling out a “skin of their teeth” successful rescue of Grogu by the episodes end. But I fully expect them to discover that Gideon has really quite significant forces - either under him, or behind him (either would suit me, to be honest). This would set up season 3 to be a bit more plot intensive, as Din and Co start rallying forces to counter Gideon, and preserve what little peace they found following the fall of the Empire.

I’m also almost certainly, totally, 100% wrong.

MDG, you make a solid and logical argument for your prediction.

I hope it is wrong because even more fighting hapless stormtrooper mooks is gonna be even more boring.

To the extent we get “Filoni’d” with this show, I hope S3 shifts to the political question of Mandalore and the Imperials fade as main antagonists.

That definitely needs exploring too.

 Manchu wrote:
Yes, that is certainly something that, as a lifelong SW fan, I am also VERY interested in (see for example my comments in the Andor and Rogue Squadron threads). That said, I don’t think The Mandalorian is the right venue for high-level political stories. It’s appeal comes from being on the literal fringe of the big show.

It depends, I guess. I really don't know how Lucasfilm goes about their planning, so I may be completely off, but had the host of shows that just got announced happened two years ago I'd gladly agree with you. Then the Mandalorian could be its own small thing with a bounty hunter turned foster parent making a life in the Outer Rim and evading the bad organization he stole the child from with a final confrontation coming up towards the end to ensure the child has a safe future after it turns out evasion alone will not do. Turns out, that's how season 1 went.

However, if these other shows weren't on the radar and planning was that the Mandalorian was all we're going to get, then it stands to reason the Mandalorian was seen as an opportunity to give us a comprehensive view of the post Empire period even if it needs to drag those Outer Rim nobodies onto the galactic political stage.

I suspect the latter to be the case and the show specifically to be written to include all that high level stuff from the start for lack of a different place to explore it, but like I said, I have no clue as to the workings of Lucasfilm and if this is actually correct.

 Manchu wrote:
I hope it is wrong because even more fighting hapless stormtrooper mooks is gonna be even more boring.

I think one of the few unfortunate aspects of the Mandalorian is the continued underperformance of Stormtroopers. I would have preferred it if an attempt had been made to give them a little bit of competence and let them have their moments even against characters wearing shirts that read "this is what plot armor looks like, baby". I guess the Mandalorian is better than any other Star Wars movie or show in that regard because Mandalorian armor is actually functional in a setting in which the only armor that works is plot armor and we therefore see a Stormtrooper or two hit something, but still. It's somewhat lacking in cohesion.

I loved the Stormtrooper rescue scene from the last episode and what do you know, those Stormtroopers actually know how to hit something if the scene is bad guys against other bad guys. But you are left to wonder how those crack shots missed every other time ever. That could have been done better throughout the show.

 Manchu wrote:
To the extent we get “Filoni’d” with this show, I hope S3 shifts to the political question of Mandalore and the Imperials fade as main antagonists.

Getting a look at Mandalore's fate in a show called the Mandalorian would certainly be good.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Holy hell. That's huge! Is it mentioned as like going on or already happened or soon to come?


Spoiler block incoming. Glad to hear these threads of EU are all coming together! I never expected to hear this namedropped though...

Spoiler:

Operation Cinder is what drives Iden Versio and Del Meeko from the Empire. The Empire flatout is burning down infrastructure and resources on planets that they cannot realistically keep the Republic/Rebellion from. They kill officials suspected of disloyalty, kill troops that express "defeatist attitudes", and generally just purge the downer debbies from their ranks.

That whole angle from Battlefront II was a big reason I never really got super frustrated with the sequel trilogy. It made it clear that they purged a big portion of the officer/troop corps they considered 'weak' and went all in on fanatics.

I'll be waiting to hear about the finale now.

I think they owe Alexander Freed a nod for this. Operation Cinder was formally introduced to audiences in Aftermath but it's always reeked of being a boardroom level directive meant to excuse Lucasfilm from having to populate the timeline with 30 years worth of Imperial Remnant mop-up stories: "The Empire starts burning down its own stuff, anyone halfway decent defects and anyone who doesn't is too busy burning down their own stuff to put up a fight, good guys win." but alphabet squadron goes in so hard to explore the trauma it causes on both sides that the moment Bill says the words I knew exactly how that conversation was going to go. Ironically Operation Cinder may end up being this raging fire that casts a shadow over the entire post-Endor period.

100% agreed on the poor performance of the Stormtroopers in the show so far. I would have preferred that they had less of them and that they died more competently than continue the human wave tactics they employed back when the Empire was at their peak considering they definitely have less manpower now given the fall of the Empire. It's gotten to the point that me and my friend sort of mentally tap out when there's a Stormtrooper fight scene, since there's no tension or risk involved. I will forever be bothered by Stormtroopers running up to the main cast to get disarmed when they could stay at a distance and just keep shooting behind cover.

Like I get that they're the redshirts of SW, but if you're scaling down the show to a more local/personal level compared to the galactic focus of the trilogies, you should make stormtroopers a little bit more threatening.

 Manchu wrote:
MDG, you make a solid and logical argument for your prediction.

I hope it is wrong because even more fighting hapless stormtrooper mooks is gonna be even more boring.

To the extent we get “Filoni’d” with this show, I hope S3 shifts to the political question of Mandalore and the Imperials fade as main antagonists.

Particularly now that he's had his helmet off in public, I'm expecting at least a part of series three to cover Din (possibly teamed with Bo-Katan) vs the Deathwatch.

 Geifer wrote:
...I guess the Mandalorian is better than any other Star Wars movie or show in that regard because Mandalorian armor is actually functional ...

Now that they've shown us just how resilient beskar is, I really want to know what caused that dent in Boba's helmet...

 insaniak wrote:
Now that they've shown us just how resilient beskar is, I really want to know what caused that dent in Boba's helmet...

I'm going to miss the explanation we got from that unfinished clone wars episode: