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As the current comics are canon, the official version is Vader did not know he had surviving kids. He discovered Luke was his son via Boba Fett who he had sent to find out the identity of the pilot who destroyed the Death Star.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/comicnewbies.com/2015/06/04/darth-vader-learns-luke-is-his-son/amp/

That actually ties in nicely with ANH.

We could argue that if Vader could sense Kenobi, he should’ve sense Luke.

But. My argument on that?

First, Luke had barley begin his training then. And given Vader’s history with Kenobi, it might’ve been like Peppermint to a Tracker Dog - it struggles to smell anything else over that stronger scent. At least according to the criminals of Ankh Morpork.

Likewise during the Battle of Yavin, Vader isn’t actually looking for a Force Sensitive. It’s something he only clocks when he struggles to shoot Luke down, before being rudely interrupted by Han and Chewie’s timely intervention.

It’s been a while since I read them, but it’s that very interrupted observation that made him want to track that pilot down?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
That actually ties in nicely with ANH.

We could argue that if Vader could sense Kenobi, he should’ve sense Luke.

But. My argument on that?

First, Luke had barley begin his training then. And given Vader’s history with Kenobi, it might’ve been like Peppermint to a Tracker Dog - it struggles to smell anything else over that stronger scent. At least according to the criminals of Ankh Morpork.

Likewise during the Battle of Yavin, Vader isn’t actually looking for a Force Sensitive. It’s something he only clocks when he struggles to shoot Luke down, before being rudely interrupted by Han and Chewie’s timely intervention.

It’s been a while since I read them, but it’s that very interrupted observation that made him want to track that pilot down?

Isn't the Force some sort of sentient energy too? It's not a consistent tool in and on itself. If the Force itself doesn't want Luke to be sensed or found then it conceals him pretty darn well. We also have basically know nothing about how a Jedi or a Sith actually feels or senses when they sense another person's presence through the Force. It appears Force sensitive people can sense one another in close proximity under most circumstances, but it also seem to be able to work literally worlds apart for people familiar with one another. The vagueness of how the Force works and how you utilizes it pretty much allows anything to go in any way.

This is one of the reason why Star Wars is both very entertaining and often compelling despite being largely garbage. Everything is a bit up in the air which allows for maximum fantasy and mystery.

It seems to depend on the movie or show. Early on, the Force was plot convenience. Prequels and on, it often feels like video game skill unlocks.

Though we are told Sith are better at hiding, or at least Sidious, Maul and Dooku were. Vader seems fairly consistently bad at it. Palpatine could somehow be invisible to the force while sitting directly in front of the entire Jedi council and mugging 'look how evil I am' directly at the camera.

The gamification of the Force is probably the biggest issue with modern Star Wars. It was never written as a rigid power system, but ever since the original RPG introduced Dark Side Points, games have started rigidly applying what it can do in such a way that we get the kind of demands for strict power scaling rather than letting the plot go where the Force takes it.

 LunarSol wrote:
The gamification of the Force is probably the biggest issue with modern Star Wars.

It's an issue in fiction in general honestly.

Ever since the 90s everything has increasingly been defined by increasingly rigid/defined power systems. There's not a whole lot of 'magic' in magic anymore. It's mostly just alt-science or applied phlebotinum.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Isn't Padme sporting a fake baby bump at her funeral so Anakin/Vader was most likely unaware that he had offspring until after the first Death Star went pop and ISB or whoever researched the pilot that done wrecked their best toy

Yes. The babies were supposed to be dead. Emperor even said to vader he killed padme. Vader didn't know there were kids to search for.

Add to that heavy dislike of anything that might cause anakin personality to resurface...why would he go there? Hunt obi wan but he had no reason to think he's there either.

Well.. he HAD no reason.

But you know. Obi Wan Kenobi starts hanging out calling himself Old Ben Kenobi while wearing his Jedi robes.

And we still have 3 more episodes of this to see how he disappears without anyone gunning for Leia or him again for another 10+ years.

 Lance845 wrote:
Well.. he HAD no reason.

But you know. Obi Wan Kenobi starts hanging out calling himself Old Ben Kenobi while wearing his Jedi robes.

And we still have 3 more episodes of this to see how he disappears without anyone gunning for Leia or him again for another 10+ years.

except Vader ahd no idea Oci-wan was on Tatooine, he was first sighted elsewhere

 LordofHats wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
The gamification of the Force is probably the biggest issue with modern Star Wars.

It's an issue in fiction in general honestly.

Ever since the 90s everything has increasingly been defined by increasingly rigid/defined power systems. There's not a whole lot of 'magic' in magic anymore. It's mostly just alt-science or applied phlebotinum.

I think this is because of a growing fascination fan bases have with minutia, plus the inevitable video game adaptations of everything so you have to have some crunch.

Magic is more interesting when it has well defined rules and isn't a handwaivium plot device because when it is the latter it is very very difficult to tell a compelling story without it being ruined. I think the only person who truly did a good job with extremely vague handwavium plot magic was Tolkien and to a lesser extent CS Lewis. Lesser author's lose a lot of quality if they have ill defined world mechanics, and making a rigid magic system is itself a compelling story element so it is a good path to use.

Modern authors are less capable of using more complex and interwoven story telling and character development that can compensate for a vague magic system's potential issues. So they make up by having a more rigid magic system and using those rigid rules to drive their plots. This doesn't make the end result worse overall. Detailed and rigid magic systems with well defined rules can be used to make excellent plots when used correctly.

 Lance845 wrote:
Well.. he HAD no reason.

But you know. Obi Wan Kenobi starts hanging out calling himself Old Ben Kenobi while wearing his Jedi robes.

And we still have 3 more episodes of this to see how he disappears without anyone gunning for Leia or him again for another 10+ years.

And...the Obi Wan is sighted in Tatooine? Or somewhere else?

 Lance845 wrote:
Well.. he HAD no reason.

But you know. Obi Wan Kenobi starts hanging out calling himself Old Ben Kenobi while wearing his Jedi robes.

And we still have 3 more episodes of this to see how he disappears without anyone gunning for Leia or him again for another 10+ years.

Because no one in the Empire proper meets or sees Kenobi on Tatooine, a planet they very recently swept, and found a rogue Jedi on. the first time anyone makes contact with him is on the space-shanghai planet. At this point, they have absolutely zero evidence to link him to tatooine, so why start thier?

With Leia, im guessing part of the issue is unless they can actaully get some real, stands up in court evidence, she'd be basically untouchable once she gets back to Alderann and back into her security (which she will be a lot less flippant about evading now). Shes still part of the imperial Elite, and even 8-9 years later in A New Hope, her rank is sufficient that even the captain of Vader's own star destroyer is arguing back to vader about the legality of it.

Personally I hate the sentient force concept. Every time you argue against highly improbable things happening, and people meeting, and you get told the force wills it. So… there’s no point to the story because the force wills the good guys to win and no one really has any free will of their own?

 AduroT wrote:
Personally I hate the sentient force concept. Every time you argue against highly improbable things happening, and people meeting, and you get told the force wills it. So… there’s no point to the story because the force wills the good guys to win and no one really has any free will of their own?

Isn't that the whole story of Kotor 2, with Kriea concluding The Force just jerks people about in an endless cycle of good / evil (without figuring out she may well be being played as part of the cycle)

Kenobi Part 5

She tried spinning. It was not, in fact, a neat trick.

To those saying Vader had no idea that Kenobi was on Tatooine, Old Ben Kenobi is known on Tatooine, his old home planet where they first met. You don't think the empire put out some kind of APB on the name Kenobi? Especially after the events of this show?

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
Personally I hate the sentient force concept. Every time you argue against highly improbable things happening, and people meeting, and you get told the force wills it. So… there’s no point to the story because the force wills the good guys to win and no one really has any free will of their own?

Isn't that the whole story of Kotor 2, with Kriea concluding The Force just jerks people about in an endless cycle of good / evil (without figuring out she may well be being played as part of the cycle)

I think that was vaguely the intended story. But between Obsidian missing milestones and cut content, her story was just that you, the player, were always wrong no matter what choices you made and she wanted a lightsaber to the face.

Quite liked that one TBH.

Really enjoyed episode 5:

 Lance845 wrote:
To those saying Vader had no idea that Kenobi was on Tatooine, Old Ben Kenobi is known on Tatooine, his old home planet where they first met. You don't think the empire put out some kind of APB on the name Kenobi? Especially after the events of this show?

Don't forget Tatooine is basically a backwater in the middle of nowhere that no one in the interior of the Galaxy really cares about one bit. It's so much in the back alleys that its run by mobsters (Hutts). Even at the height of power of the Imperium, Hutts still clearly command power on the world even with Imperial troops marching all over.

And an APB on someone called Kenobi. The setting is set over a Galaxy; the size and number of people within that is vast. You are going well into trillions of people from all walks of life. Actually finding a single person in that setting is a huge feat in of itself.

Some old guy with a name on a backwater world at the far end of the Galaxy that no one cares about and which Vader likely wants to avoid and forget about (since its only a source of pain for him). It's possible that the Empire wouldn't care to go looking. I think the issue is that the world is presented as quite important to viewers because so many key things happen there and we keep going back to it. So it feels really important to us and like a huge part of the story hinges on that world. That so many important things happen and relate to it that it should be the prime focus of the Empire. Yet its not, the Empire hardly knows it exists. The Emperor and Vader have no idea there are any kids to hunt for and even if there were, there's no Jedi to find them, teach them or train them. There's basically so little threat they look toward others; like rebellious uprisings; politicians causing trouble in the senate.

Don't forget by the time of movie 4 the Jedi are almost legends (which considering how they were operating in films 1-3 is kind of a shock that so little time has passed; would have been better to have thrown another generation or two of time into things). Basically someone saying they have Jedi powers is like someone walking up to you in the street and saying they have the powers of Merlin.

Only downside?

I like that the casualties weren’t Entirely one sided in this one, even if they were Heavily skewed in favor of the good guys.

Pulling the ship looked cool, but I think it was perhaps too much, seemed too effortless.

I think he should look effortless in it. He’s driven by his anger and thirst for revenge, is still the most powerful Force Adept, and has had thorough Sith and Jedi training.

If anyone is gonna make it look easy, it’s Vader!

 Grey Templar wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
The gamification of the Force is probably the biggest issue with modern Star Wars.

It's an issue in fiction in general honestly.

Ever since the 90s everything has increasingly been defined by increasingly rigid/defined power systems. There's not a whole lot of 'magic' in magic anymore. It's mostly just alt-science or applied phlebotinum.

I think this is because of a growing fascination fan bases have with minutia, plus the inevitable video game adaptations of everything so you have to have some crunch.

Magic is more interesting when it has well defined rules and isn't a handwaivium plot device because when it is the latter it is very very difficult to tell a compelling story without it being ruined. I think the only person who truly did a good job with extremely vague handwavium plot magic was Tolkien and to a lesser extent CS Lewis. Lesser author's lose a lot of quality if they have ill defined world mechanics, and making a rigid magic system is itself a compelling story element so it is a good path to use.

Modern authors are less capable of using more complex and interwoven story telling and character development that can compensate for a vague magic system's potential issues. So they make up by having a more rigid magic system and using those rigid rules to drive their plots. This doesn't make the end result worse overall. Detailed and rigid magic systems with well defined rules can be used to make excellent plots when used correctly.

It depends on what your story is about really. If the focus on the story is the use of the power system itself, then hard rules are important. The goal is to put your protagonist into a situation where they are outmatched in conventional strength but can implement the power system in clever ways to win. You can actually do this with less rigid systems as well, but it requires spending time setting the parameters of each encounter that most stories don't have time for.

Loose systems work best when they're not really the focus of the story, but more like a natural phenomena. One of the reasons the Force works in the OT is that its generally not treated as something that can be controlled. It's more like the weather and while it can be directed to your advantage, it almost doesn't work at all in the few instances where Force users come into contact with one another. This leaves the Force free to mostly facilitate character interactions that are the real heart of the films.

This episode was OK. I had to go back and rewatch the start of it in order to confirm if that twist in the action sequence was foreshadowed at all (it was, but very, very quickly), I'm still not generally impressed with the action scenes we've seen so far, but between the passable action and relatively decent character moments, I'm more OK with this episode than last week's.

 LordofHats wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
The gamification of the Force is probably the biggest issue with modern Star Wars.

It's an issue in fiction in general honestly.

Ever since the 90s everything has increasingly been defined by increasingly rigid/defined power systems. There's not a whole lot of 'magic' in magic anymore. It's mostly just alt-science or applied phlebotinum.

For me this was a big problem in the EU (now Legends) continuities, along with the general assumption that everybody across the galaxy had the same idea of what the Force, Jedi, and Sith are. Where everybody knows that the Force does X, no one has any doubts or reservations about the Jedi having exclusivity rights on the 'correct' teachings about it, and everybody knows about the Sith to the point where their name is incorporated into many in-universe swear words.

It seems to me they workshopped the idea that there could be other effective religious interpretations of what the Force is and how to utilize it during production of Clone Wars, with the Witches of Dathomir, and when Disney reset the canon the story group was free to run away with that idea, so now you see Jedi in the High Republic era all have very different personal interpretations of what the Force 'feels' like, or the miriad of previously suppressed force cults scrambling for relevance following the Empire's fall in Alphabet Squadron, or the Sequel Trilogy's willingness to depict new and interesting force abilities in every movie.

 Overread wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Don't forget by the time of movie 4 the Jedi are almost legends (which considering how they were operating in films 1-3 is kind of a shock that so little time has passed; would have been better to have thrown another generation or two of time into things). Basically someone saying they have Jedi powers is like someone walking up to you in the street and saying they have the powers of Merlin.

Yes I remember as a kid watching the first film and thinking the Jedi were from a mythical long past time. Not in fact a couple of decades ago. Hell currently we have more time between the end of the Soviet Empire and today than Star Wars has from the fall of the Republic and the start of Star Wars...

Best episode yet with 5! this has been a roller coaster of up and down.

On that…I was born in 1980, so my formative years were during the tail end of the Cold War, with it’s arguable height in the Cuban Missile Crisis being a mere 18 years later.

Yet….to me at least, The Cold War feels super abstract. I’m aware it was a thing, but it never felt like a thing to me.

So there is some precedent at least for short term memory.

Vader's backstory after the OT was always kind of a problem if you really sat down and tried to make a timeline out of it. Luke's mother was always a bit of an impossible element to work in. The only way it could really work is if the prequel trilogy was something like:

Episode 1: Adventure where Obi-Wan meets Anakain that ends in the start of the Clone Wars

Episode 2: Basically Revenge of the Sith, ending in Order 66 and Vader going on to hunt the remaining Jedi. End of the Clone Wars, rise of the Empire.

Episode 3: Vader hunts down Obi-Wan decades later on Mustafar and they have their duel. Obi-Wan discovers Anakin's children, etc.

The problem is making Padme a character in such an arc and not just... the mother. It more or less demands her loving Vader and never Anakin for the gap between 2-3 to make any sense at all and that is a really hard character to write.