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You may be right about sister 3. It's the obvious conclusion right? depending if they want to season 2 it?

 Stevefamine wrote:
You may be right about sister 3. It's the obvious conclusion right? depending if they want to season 2 it?

Already announced they're going to.

 Lance845 wrote:
Lets do it this way. How many people named Kenobi exist on Vader's home planet within non-air travel distance from a Skywalker?

1

But why would Vader even look on Tatooine?

The only person he knew there who had any importance to him was his own mother. Everyone else came onto the scene long after he left and after she died. He's no relation or family connections to them. He has no reason to consider it a viable place for anything to happen. Least of all his old teacher going there to hide his child. Whilst some events and the timeline of the first 3 films can sometimes mess up some things (like the afore mentioned rapid move of Jedi from fact to legend); the idea that Vader would have zero interest in his home world actually makes a lot of sense. His only real connection to that world was his mother. Without her that world has nothing good within it that he recalls now. Just slavery, sand, hutts and death. What family that was there were strangers to him. People his mother was bought by and then marred into. Strangers.

Furthermore, mentally, Vader isn't Anakin. Part of his mental shield in how he clearly accepts who he is as Vader and does the things he does is likely blocking off all memory of that person. Shunting into a dark corner of his mind. Chances are there are likely days he doesn't even remember much of himself before he became Vader.

He certainly seems to spare no special attention for the world in terms of Imperial attention. It has no increased policing and seems to still mostly be controlled by the Huts; or at least their activities and power remain.



So what if there's someone called Kenobi there. As noted there are likely millions of people with the same or similar name over the whole Galaxy. Furthermore international travel is so easily done within the setting that chances are regional names spread all over the place quite readily within regions.

 Grimskul wrote:


Also, it also kind of starts setting up questions as to how Qui-Gonn didn't survive his stabbing from Darth Maul if all these piddly dark side users who were of lower power than Qui Gonn were able to live after being stabbed.

Irishmen don't ever come back from being stabbed in the liver.

 LunarSol wrote:

 Stevefamine wrote:
You may be right about sister 3. It's the obvious conclusion right? depending if they want to season 2 it?

Already announced they're going to.

Considering McGregor is saying he wants to as of 5 hours ago, that doesn't seem confirmed yet.

https://screenrant.com/obi-wan-kenobi-show-season-2-ewan-mcgregor/

There's some 'reportedly' and 'rumored' renewals out there, but apparently no one told the primary actor.

There are parts of this episode that were both the best and worst of the season so far.

 Overread wrote:
He has no reason to consider it a viable place for anything to happen. Least of all his old teacher going there to hide his child that he doesn't know exists.

Just adding that for you. I feel like people keep completely missing this point. Vader doesn't know there's a child to look for.

True that.

I’ll need to watch the final scenes of Part 5 to remind myself exactly what Third Sister learns from Bail’s message. I’m not sure if it’s just further children (and remember, they covered Force Sensitive Kids being kidnapped by The Empire), or specifically Anakin’s sprogs?

 Overread wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Lets do it this way. How many people named Kenobi exist on Vader's home planet within non-air travel distance from a Skywalker?

1

But why would Vader even look on Tatooine?

The only person he knew there who had any importance to him was his own mother. Everyone else came onto the scene long after he left and after she died. He's no relation or family connections to them. He has no reason to consider it a viable place for anything to happen. Least of all his old teacher going there to hide his child. Whilst some events and the timeline of the first 3 films can sometimes mess up some things (like the afore mentioned rapid move of Jedi from fact to legend); the idea that Vader would have zero interest in his home world actually makes a lot of sense. His only real connection to that world was his mother. Without her that world has nothing good within it that he recalls now. Just slavery, sand, hutts and death. What family that was there were strangers to him. People his mother was bought by and then marred into. Strangers.

Furthermore, mentally, Vader isn't Anakin. Part of his mental shield in how he clearly accepts who he is as Vader and does the things he does is likely blocking off all memory of that person. Shunting into a dark corner of his mind. Chances are there are likely days he doesn't even remember much of himself before he became Vader.

He certainly seems to spare no special attention for the world in terms of Imperial attention. It has no increased policing and seems to still mostly be controlled by the Huts; or at least their activities and power remain.



So what if there's someone called Kenobi there. As noted there are likely millions of people with the same or similar name over the whole Galaxy. Furthermore international travel is so easily done within the setting that chances are regional names spread all over the place quite readily within regions.

So, we see in the movies and this show that Vader REALLY hates Kenobi and killing Kenobi is one of his top priorities. Not like for the empire. For himself.

Then, this show happens. And Kenobi has direct interactions with Vader. Unless this show ends with Kenobi faking his death in someway that makes Vader think he is dead, then Vader is on his trail and looking for him. Return to my point about an APB on a Kenobi.

While the empire doesn't have a crazy presence on Tatooine, it DOES have A pretense there. Plus bounty hunters and inquisitors and the like. Also, hey, the inquisitors were already on Tatooine.

Any person there could be like... Yeah... I know a Kenobi. Ol'Ben Kenobi. At any point. Over the next 10 YEARS.

You guys assume there are a bunch of Kenobi's out there or that they might be as common as "Smith". But thats you working backwards to justify how dumb this is with some kind of rational explanation for which you have no evidence. We know of exactly 2 Kenobis and 1 only in a single sentence off hand mention as a brother to the only one anyone has ever known about. The fact that Obi Wan Kenobi goes into hiding as Old Ben Kenobi is, and pretty much always has been, really dumb.

Nope. Just mentions The Children, Tattooine and “Owen, help the boy”

 Lance845 wrote:
We know of exactly 2 Kenobis and 1 only in a single sentence off hand mention as a brother to the only one anyone has ever known about.

I think we can infer that there are or were at least two more Kenobis out there since Obi Wan wouldn't exist without parents. Even Anakin had one of those.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Nope. Just mentions The Children, Tattooine and “Owen, help the boy”

Did you also go back to the first episode and check if Owen conveniently let his name and home address slip?

I didn’t, no! But in a huge Galaxy, a planet sparsely populated, you’ve already been to and a name is not a bad start.

However, she has met Owen already. Will check that scene in case. The rest could, feasibly, be Force Intuition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oooh. She does call Owen by name in that scene.

Good to know. For a second there I thought she might have to do some actual work to get results, but luckily that was just silliness on my part and results just produce themselves as they do for the rest of us.

The Force Works In Mysterious Ways.

 Geifer wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
We know of exactly 2 Kenobis and 1 only in a single sentence off hand mention as a brother to the only one anyone has ever known about.

I think we can infer that there are or were at least two more Kenobis out there since Obi Wan wouldn't exist without parents. Even Anakin had one of those.

All people Vader would love to go on a killing spree against just to spite Obi Wan.

This is literally an appropriate time for the villains to do a "Bring me the heads of every dwarf until my brother is found" ala Cersi in Game of Throne.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The Force Works In Mysterious Ways.

Maybe in this case it shouldn't.

I think I figured out why I'm having a hard time with Obi Wan. The Filoni and Favreau shows aren't trying to be overly serious, so I'm more open to silly and nonsensical elements as they don't clash so hard with my expectations. Obi Wan very much looks like it's trying to come across like a genuine drama to me, trying to be all deep and serious like. I feel compelled to hold it to different standards, and it just doesn't measure up because it doesn't rise above the usual, straightforward and simplistic storytelling Star Wars gets.

It feels all kinds of weird, but I think a less serious Star Wars is simply better.

 Lance845 wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
We know of exactly 2 Kenobis and 1 only in a single sentence off hand mention as a brother to the only one anyone has ever known about.

I think we can infer that there are or were at least two more Kenobis out there since Obi Wan wouldn't exist without parents. Even Anakin had one of those.

All people Vader would love to go on a killing spree against just to spite Obi Wan.

This is literally an appropriate time for the villains to do a "Bring me the heads of every dwarf until my brother is found" ala Cersi in Game of Throne.

Why, though? Obi Wan was kidnapped at a very young age. The Jedi order is the only family he ever knew and its a family that preaches detachment, something Anakin should be very well aware of. Killing Obi Wan's biological family isn't going to achieve any more than killing random strangers. There is no point because there is no way to spite Obi Wan in that manner. If Satine was still alive, there'd be an argument for leveraging her against him, but that's not an option for obvious reasons.

 Geifer wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
Also, it also kind of starts setting up questions as to how Qui-Gonn didn't survive his stabbing from Darth Maul if all these piddly dark side users who were of lower power than Qui Gonn were able to live after being stabbed.

He lost the will to live and the others didn't?

Or simply that he was stabbed somewhere more immediately killy.

'Lower power' is also something of a misinterpretation. It's always been the case that the Dark Side opens up access to considerably more power, it's just focusing it effectively that less well-trained dark side users suffer from. But rage (or 'revenge', as the creepy man says) is a powerful focus.

 Lance845 wrote:
Lets do it this way. How many people named Kenobi exist on Vader's home planet within non-air travel distance from a Skywalker?

And the answer is - We don't know, because nowhere in the various repositories of Star Wars background information is there a complete census of the population of Tatooine.

But even if the answer is '1'... you're still assuming that this name actually shows up anywhere important. He's an old dude living out in the desert near a small and unimportant town on a poorly regulated planet and largely keeping to himself. The number of people on the planet who actually know his name would be vanishingly small.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

Spoiler:

omg they killed sturdy robot dude, you bar-stewards

 Geifer wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The Force Works In Mysterious Ways.

Maybe in this case it shouldn't.

I think I figured out why I'm having a hard time with Obi Wan. The Filoni and Favreau shows aren't trying to be overly serious, so I'm more open to silly and nonsensical elements as they don't clash so hard with my expectations. Obi Wan very much looks like it's trying to come across like a genuine drama to me, trying to be all deep and serious like. I feel compelled to hold it to different standards, and it just doesn't measure up because it doesn't rise above the usual, straightforward and simplistic storytelling Star Wars gets.

That's a good call.

The other part of it is, simply, for a genuine drama, protagonists have to have something to lose. We know, _absolutely_, that they do not. Obi-wan has zero connections to anyone who isn't Luke and Leia and vaguely Owen and Bail.
Old co-workers who don't have enough to feed their families, former Jedi trying to flee the inquisitors, no one else in the galaxy means a thing to him. He can even encourage ex-younglings into suicide attempts for a convenient distraction.
Going into the final episode it is entirely assured that everyone (who matters) will be perfectly fine, because they need to be in place for the film 45 years ago.

Episode 6 (the sixth part, because apparently these thing need episode titles even when they don't have one) will be like watching an afternoon special where everyone goes home directly from school and no one gets drunk, does drugs, speeds, gets in a fight and no unexpected pregnancies happen. They just go home have dinner and get up to go to school again the next day.

Filoni and Favreau also can't make competent villains, especially the average trooper ones, feel any sort of threatening. I absolutely do not believe the Empire can maintain any sort of order with such pathetic soldiers.

As for the force trick Vader pulled. Neat. Looks cool. Why didn't he flick X-Wings left and right in the trench run of ANH, then? They're much smaller than the transport, he doesn't need to completely stop them, just angle them to have them crash into the trench wall, it would be a lot efforts.

 Bobthehero wrote:
As for the force trick Vader pulled. Neat. Looks cool. Why didn't he flick X-Wings left and right in the trench run of ANH, then? They're much smaller than the transport, he doesn't need to completely stop them, just angle them to have them crash into the trench wall, it would be a lot efforts.

For one, because he liked to show off his superior piloting skills. And I would guess that there's a bit of difference in the level of concentration required to do something like that while standing flat on the ground compared to while piloting a starfighter in a narrow trench during combat.

A trench with no obstacles? He just flies straight, change the inclination of the X-Wings/Y-Wings a few degree, and let their speed send them crashing into the walls.

Or he doesn't. Because, you know... he didn't.

And there's another issue with the series, really, adding more plot holes to the OT just to get a nice scene, it's unfortunate.

That’s why I don’t like that part. Yoda had to effort and concentration into lifting an XWing, vs Vader overpowering a ship actively trying to fly away. I would rather it had been just starting to lift off and he crushed the engines.

Well, there are a few possible explanations.

Force Dragging a ship attempting take off whilst standing on the ground is not the same as trying to alter a flight trajectory whilst also flying, at high speed. Therefore I’m going to argue it’s a matter of sheer concentration. When he’s just stood there doing nothing but dragging you back down to the ground, he’s using his full concentration. Given he was in pursuit over the Death Star, had two wingmen and some pretty easy “nowhere else for them to go” targets, shooting them down is likely the easier, if less flashy option - and the one with the least risk of stacking it yourself. After all, had another group entered the trench behind Vader and chums, you don’t want your attention elsewhere (which is more or less what happens with Han’s intervention and Chewie’s fancy shoot in’)

Yoda? Who knows how long he’d been shut off from The Force? No, we don’t know for certain he ever did that in the first place. But raising Luke’s X-Wing out of the swamp remains the only time we see Yoda flex the Force in the OT. But I think it’s a reasonable inference, given we’ve now seen two clear examples (Luke and Obi-Wan) both finding going back to using the Force as a bit of a strain.

Please note these are only arguments/possible explanations I’m putting forth. No-one is obliged to agree, and I do not claim super special knowledge.

As for not crushing the engines? Vader didn’t want Kenobi dead. Vader wanted Kenobi - possibly to kill himself, and very likely in as excruciating a manner as possible. Hence we don’t see him simply tear the engines off. Get it on the ground, tear the ship the apart and bring him the passengers, he wants them alive.

 AduroT wrote:
That’s why I don’t like that part. Yoda had to effort and concentration into lifting an XWing, vs Vader overpowering a ship actively trying to fly away. I would rather it had been just starting to lift off and he crushed the engines.

Ok? But Yoda isn't a Sith Lord with seemingly bottomless wells of hate, fear, and rage to draw on. Vader does. Enslaved as a child, dead mother, betrayed by his adopted family (the Jedi), "betrayed" by his brother Obi-Wan who also cut off three of his limbs and left him to die, his wife is dead, and his child is dead. Yoda was sitting in a swamp for like 35 years eating soup and was also like 890 odd years old. As others have pointed out as well, the Jedi we've seen post-fall mostly don't use the Force, whereas again Vader uses it all the time. Kenobi, Kanan, and Yoda are all working with a power they don't draw on daily and it's a struggle for them. Hell, IIRC Cere from Fallen Order just lost the ability until the last act of the game because she was in hiding and basically abandoned it.
It would be like asking someone who hasn't played guitar in 30 years to perfectly play the solo from Free Bird.

Alright, if he’s This strong, why did he let Luke fall in the OT?

Conflicted emotions I’d say. He’d just revealed himself to his son, who rejected his (presumably entirely sincere) offer to overthrow Palpatine and rule together, then lopped his son’s hand off.

 AduroT wrote:
Alright, if he’s This strong, why did he let Luke fall in the OT?

You do know people have been asking that question since the movie came out right?
The simplest answer is that Vader wanted Luke to willingly join him so they could rule together, not as master and pawn as it was with Vader and the Emperor. That whole bit where Vader fights Luke is the former realising that delivering Luke to the Emperor gets Vader killed and that tempting Luke to join him means Vader lives.
To be more specific about Luke joining Vader:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Filoni and Favreau also can't make competent villains, especially the average trooper ones, feel any sort of threatening. I absolutely do not believe the Empire can maintain any sort of order with such pathetic soldiers.

Can't or won't, yeah.

I will say the first time I watched Rebels Thrawn actually had a pretty good showing. Eerily good, to be honest. When it comes down to it he made a whole lot of good decisions and lost to the rebels only twice, and both times by deus ex machina. That's not necessarily better writing as it just turns the thing around to favor the Empire for once, but proves that they could find a better balance if they wanted to. They clearly know there's a point to having a competent antagonist, they just inexplicably think they don't have to have that most of the time.

It's kind of hard to fathom how they think making the antagonists idiots wouldn't reflect back on the protagonists. Or to loosely quote Obi Wan: "Who's the bigger moron? The moron or the moron who opposes him?"

 Bobthehero wrote:
A trench with no obstacles? He just flies straight, change the inclination of the X-Wings/Y-Wings a few degree, and let their speed send them crashing into the walls.

Vader flies straight because the rebels fly straight because the trench is straight. That whole scene has been nonsense for 45 years. How hard can it be for an ace pilot to shoot down three fighters flying ahead of him in a straight line? Yet somehow he doesn't. I'm not bothered if Vader learns new Force tricks in new material that would have given him alternate options for taking down the rebels if he can't shoot them down the dead easy conventional way because plot armor prevents a sure thing from happening.