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The Primaris line was a mistake from the beginning- they shouldn't have engaged in this Primaris idiocy and just upscaled the Space Marine line (which for the umpteenth time they have done before) with all marine units getting 1+ wound and 1+ attack. Complaining would have been minimal, people would have been overjoyed to get truescale models, and GW could even release a "base booster" to bring the old models up to the height of primaris for competitive games.


But instead they made Primaris their "own thing", which is how we get mindboggingly dumb and useless units like Reivers, Aggressors, and to a lesser degree Intercessors which commit the cardinal sin of lacking special weapons (that and just looking awful in the case of Reivers, who in their right mind approved those COD kiddy skull masks and their idiot fluff?) which is what makes marines marines. Their Lt's and HQ's are also a joke because while they have that +1 to wounds and attacks, they still suffer from lack of options. You need a special edition model to even get a power fist, and otherwise their commanders and Lt's are restricted to using some of the most garbage weapons on captains and only useful for mediocre generalization - power swords and master crafted boltguns.

And it also makes me worried that GW isn't going to make Primaris Terminators or Primaris bikers in the future when they inevitably do replace the ranges and frankly, they can feth off.

 Wyzilla wrote:
.......Complaining would have been minimal....

You know that's not true.

The Marine line hit a dead end, it was time for a new start.

If you want to alter one unit in the codex for balance you have to update 30 units across 5 codecies.
Their lore was super restrictive also. You'd have to retcon things into the past as they did with Centurions. Also, the Tanks really fell behind in terms of model wow factor when things like Riptides and Wraithknights are on the table. The Rhino chassis vehicles are all ugly, boring boxes. Nostalgic maybe, but certainly boring.

Now with Primaris you have different armours for each unit, a unique tank that sets them apart from more common Imperium armies as it hovers, a big Dreadnought that doesn't look like a midget next to every other walker in every other army. They aren't tied to the past, they aren't tied to a restrictive unit structure, they aren't limited by technological regression in the lore. The sky is the limit.

I don't want upscaled Arartes. We have the begginings of a new range with a fresh start that draws from the best bits of 40k and 30k Astartes. For once we won't get a boring Rhino chassis variant for a future tank, or another squad of 5 guys that are only different because of weapon variation, or some more Terminators. I've already got 10k+ points of that and want no more.

So yes, some collectors whinge and whine non stop, but Primaris are the most exciting release of 8th. Not for what they are now, but for what they might become. If you don't like them stick to the regular line - they won't be going anywhere.

**edit** corrected multiple typos...

Except it was a lot more than just weapons. One of the main appeals to me for marines was the treasure trove of bitz options. Between all the various kits being compatible, you could really make some unique looking guys especially once they added in the HH plastics. Two people could play marines and have armies that look nothing alike with out even having to do that extensive of conversions. Especially when you factor in forgeworld

Primaris models are so samey. I saw two player playing both using primaris armies and it was a mirror match. Every model has the same options, the same pose, same armor. Sure little timmy doesn't have to worry about putting his models together wrong but they are so dull. Additionally even as a marine player it pisses me off that GW is letting other armies languish while pumping out marines 2.0. Also there only plastic vehicle so far is ugly, is way overboard with guns and it doesn't even have good rules. I'll take a humble rhino or drop pod over that abomination.

 Wyzilla wrote:
"... Intercessors which commit the cardinal sin of lacking special weapons ... You need a special edition model to even get a power fist ..."

In answer to the first part, they do get the Grenade Launcher. It could be better, but it is only one point. Honestly it doesn't even need to be that much better; +1 AP on their frag grenades, bump their krak grenades to S7, AP 2, D1+1d3 or D3. Or let their Sergeants pay for Melta Bombs like everything else in the bloody book since there's nothing in the rules stopping you from putting the grenade launcher on the Sergeant.

Yes that's only one option, but they only need one option if it's good. Sure a tac squad has dozens of options, but honestly how many of them do you actually use if you're not worried about wysiwyg? (Speaking of which, would it have killed them to put a Power Sword in the Intercessor box? There's a dozen other arms in there, but not one for the one bit of extra wargear the Sergeant has access to?). If the basic Tac Squad box were based on what anyone other than me put on the table around here it would be just a Sergeant with a Stormbolter, a Lascannon guy, and three grunts.

On the second point; that is annoying, but it does present me with the opportunity to do a little kit bashing. I don't care for the Power Fist/Plasma Pistol combo, but converting an Aggressor into a Captain sounds like fun and I don't think I'd ever field the full squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Except it was a lot more than just weapons. One of the main appeals to me for marines was the treasure trove of bitz options

I do miss having all the extra bits left over, but at the same time eventually you wind up with an unruly bucket of parts and no real use for them.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Sure little timmy doesn't have to worry about putting his models together wrong

You haven't built a box of those things have you. The fact that they only fit together one way does NOT make them easy to assemble, if you're not paying attention to the numbers and following the directions the first couple of times it's really easy to wind up with a 3d jigsaw puzzle to sort out.

I'm in the camp that likes the Repentor. Wish it had a gun layout that isn't rubbish and T8 instead of T7, but that can be fixed with a little ink in Chapter Approved. Of course I also like the Centurions and think they fit in with the Primaris line better than the older marines with all the exposed cables and stuff, so obviously I'm a bit weird.

 Insectum7 wrote:

Fully agree with this. The two marine styles don't look good together, imo. I too like the look of the Intercessors but I don't want any in my army because they look weird next to everything else. Right now my army is unified in style, and I'm inclined to keep it that way. If I want Primaris as a unit, I'm inclined to use a specific subset of oldmarines, and I have a collection of current beakies that I might use for just that. We'll see.

I agree with this. I love my oldmarines Salamanders army, and I've got some primaris languishing on the sprue from Dark Imperium and Wake the Dead. I'll get around to building and painting them eventually - probably not soon because they don't particularly excite me - but when I do I'm planning on making them a different chapter entirely, probably one like Lamenters or another "nearly wiped out but primaris reinforced, so they've got history but they're nearly all the new boys nowadays" sort of chapter, while still adding oldmarine reinforcements to the Sallies for as long as I can get them. I can say that they're from before Guilliman woke up to explain the lack of the primaris in the ranks.

 Ishagu wrote:

Now with Primaris you have different armours for each unit, a unique tank that sets them apart from more common Imperium armies as it hovers, a big Dreadnought that doesn't look like a midget next to every other walker in every other army. They aren't tied to the past, they aren't tied to a restrictive unit structure, they aren't limited by technological regression in the lore. The sky is the limit.

My problem with the unique armour designs is that the further you move away from the standard Mark X armour design (which I agree looks really good), the uglier they get. By the time you get to the vehicles, unique and big they may be, but I find the Repulsor and Redemptor to be ugly as sin. Give me a Land Raider or Leviathan any day. Given that it's clear Primaris are the future, I really hope Phase 2 has some more aesthetically pleasing vehicles in it.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Except it was a lot more than just weapons. One of the main appeals to me for marines was the treasure trove of bitz options. Between all the various kits being compatible, you could really make some unique looking guys especially once they added in the HH plastics. Two people could play marines and have armies that look nothing alike with out even having to do that extensive of conversions. Especially when you factor in forgeworld

Primaris models are so samey. I saw two player playing both using primaris armies and it was a mirror match. Every model has the same options, the same pose, same armor. Sure little timmy doesn't have to worry about putting his models together wrong but they are so dull. Additionally even as a marine player it pisses me off that GW is letting other armies languish while pumping out marines 2.0. Also there only plastic vehicle so far is ugly, is way overboard with guns and it doesn't even have good rules. I'll take a humble rhino or drop pod over that abomination.

This is my main issue with primaris, and it's an issue that as far as I'm aware is a general design shift for their new models. The ability to kitbash, and even have a large variety of poses in a unit is being drastically reduced as they change the way they design the kits from the more modular style of before that allowed things like the marine line where there are literally hundreds of different kits one could use to armour and equip a marine because everything fit with everything. Now the primaris come mostly prebuilt, there isn't that much opportunity for changing the models, stances or armour. Also clamshell, fixed equipment, monopose HQs, but that's a wider issue.

 Ishagu wrote:
The Marine line hit a dead end

Yes.

 Ishagu wrote:
it was time for a new start.

What? No what no!
When you finish something you start something else, not the same thing again but slightly different.

Ishagu wrote:I don't think you've grasped the idea that the range and options will grow in future? We've only had one wave of releases. I remember when Marines had one unit and a Dreadnought as the whole line.

word


I love my redemptor, but I LOVE my contemptor. I love my intercessors, but I LOVE my MKIII Marines. I love kitbashing primaris with regular marines, my heavy hellblasters look great with the forgeworld chapter upgrades and I'm looking forward to doing up some interceptors & reivers.

I wont buy a repulsor since they are the only primaris unit that I actually hate. GW shoulda made something In between the land raider and spartan then a small 5 marine transport (ala no rhino just razorback).

Even though I've expanded primaris wise from darkimp , I've purchased way more classic marines & units than primaris.

As for the models looking terrible on the table, I love running RTB01 beakies next to intercessors. My Salamanders took full advantage of the primaris reinforcements Guiliman brought to Nocturne. I will continue to buy whichever models I like and if gw never makes another classic marine in 10years big deal, I'll still have purchased the classic kits I want will happily buy whichever primaris models I want to

I'll defend the Repulsor a bit lol

It actually looks really cool in person, and it performs well - although as more codecies have come out it's currently a bit overpriced. I love the fact it flies and you can deploy it behind something then zoom over. The weapons are also very effective, lots of Dakka and anti tank firepower.

Bring on Chapter Approved!

As much as I like Redemptors, I haven't bothered using them since the Armigers came out. Yeah Yeah I know. I'm that guy.

 Ishagu wrote:
The Marine line hit a dead end, it was time for a new start.

If you want to alter one unit in the codex for balance you have to update 30 units across 5 codecies.
Their lore was super restrictive also. You'd have to retcon things into the past as they did with Centurions. Also, the Tanks really fell behind in terms of model wow factor when things like Riptides and Wraithknights are on the table. The Rhino chassis vehicles are all ugly, boring boxes. Nostalgic maybe, but certainly boring.

Now with Primaris you have different armours for each unit, a unique tank that sets them apart from more common Imperium armies as it hovers, a big Dreadnought that doesn't look like a midget next to every other walker in every other army. They aren't tied to the past, they aren't tied to a restrictive unit structure, they aren't limited by technological regression in the lore. The sky is the limit.

I don't want upscaled Arartes. We have the begginings of a new range with a fresh start that draws from the best bits of 40k and 30k Astartes. For once we won't get a boring Rhino chassis variant for a future tank, or another squad of 5 guys that are only different because of weapon variation, or some more Terminators. I've already got 10k+ points of that and want no more.

So yes, some collectors whinge and whine non stop, but Primaris are the most exciting release of 8th. Not for what they are now, but for what they might become. If you don't like them stick to the regular line - they won't be going anywhere.

**edit** corrected multiple typos...

Then go play 30k or play another army instead of demanding and acting as the catalyst for what caused the death of Warhammer Fantasy. When a range is finished it's finished. It doesn't need any new models, and truth is that the Space Marine range should have ceased receiving anything besides updates for existing kits 6+ years ago. We don't need new vehicles, we don't need new units. We have everything that we need, and all GW had to do was just leave it alone instead of getting involved and fething things up. This is emphasized by almost the entire Primaris unit line being summed up as "a whole lot of units I never needed or have a use for". They're the poster boys of unnecessary model lines that serve no role in the game besides bloating it up even further and being mostly inferior to preexisting alternatives.

Not to mention that the entire idea of releasing more and better Primaris stuff down the line is utterly moronic and makes no sense. To paraphrase my English Lit prof, when you write a story, you start with the most interesting point in their life, then either backtrack or move forward to expand upon them. Why the hell would you release a bunch of boring, unnecessary kits for Primaris that have no purpose despite months of GW trying to crowbar them in - instead of just releasing specialized kits for the Big Four with all of their bits and bling that makes the kits worth buying. There's not even a point in laying down $60 bloody USD for a squad of glorified tactical marines which I have to bling up on my own dime so they actually look like their parent Legion. Just jump to the good stuff already and start releasing Primaris Deathwing, Primaris Assault Marines, Primaris Long Fangs, etc instead of these generic units that commit the cardinal sin in 40k of being utterly boring. What makes the Horus Heresy a decent game with interesting features is the number of options for the specialist options, not basic bolter squads running about which serve no purpose than to plug into a FOC so you can get the units that are actually fun to use. Which aren't even Primaris right now because they exclusively come in cookie cutter sets with no variety and adaptability.

This is the god damn Adeptus Astartes for the love of god, not Eldar Aspects. What the hell is GW even thinking with trying to cram boring and restrictive loadouts into the army that is supposed to be "Your Dudes" above all others, that made Space Marines among the most popular armies in the first place?

Actually you're the one demanding or stating that the direction GW are taking doesn't conform to your desires or ideas.

Problem was they were stuck in a loop of focussing all their attention and resources into Marines and quickly reached the point where they had done it all for them but were unwilling to spend any time or effort on any other range as the marines were the best seller - hence the loop.

They then resorted to massively flandersing a few chosen (Wolfy, Blood, Dark) Chapters as well as making up new units such as Centurions and Flyers which were all IMO horrible models.

Finally they decided that the bloat was so huge that only a entirely new range of Marines could keep them selling Marines to those who already have vast amounts of Marines and also draw attention of new players with better sculpts. Just Making just new Primaris versions of old Marines would not have worked ads many older players would just keep using the old ones and say there are Primaris.

Consequently we are still in the messy transition period and still in the MUST MAKE MORE MARINES loop.

yes they will replace them in the fluff and eventually the tabletop but it will be a long long time.

 Mr Morden wrote:
still in the MUST MAKE MORE MARINES loop.

I basically agree with the meat of what you say, but I wanted to take a bit of issue with this.

You say this like it's a problem, but honestly marines (loyal or chaos) have ALWAYS been the core of this game. It's what 40k is built on, what the lore is primarily focused on, and are the hook on which everything else in the setting hangs. Marines need to be the focus ultimately. The 'loop' is what the business relies on.

People sometimes say that if they put as much focus on a Xenos faction as they do on Marines that they would be just as popular, but I really think that's a fallacy. Marines are conceptually inherently more appealing to a larger proportion of gamers than any other faction. In pretty much every game, including ones where factions are more equally represented, the 'heroic humans' are more popular than other options.

Here's WoW racial distribution as a case in point.

 Ishagu wrote:
I'll defend the Repulsor a bit lol

It actually looks really cool in person, and it performs well - although as more codecies have come out it's currently a bit overpriced. I love the fact it flies and you can deploy it behind something then zoom over. The weapons are also very effective, lots of Dakka and anti tank firepower.

Bring on Chapter Approved!

I saw one nice looking custom made Custode's land raider on my flag. It was done from repulsor kit and maker has put land raider sponsons etc to it. I would say it was much more good looking than basic land raiders or repulsors. I almost wanted to do same to Deathwing.

 Stux wrote:
In pretty much every game, including ones where factions are more equally represented, the 'heroic humans' are more popular than other options.

Here's WoW racial distribution as a case in point.

Woah, a whooping 16% of players play humans! A whole 0.3% above Blood Elves too!
Guess that means we must focus on humans over every other species. Let's leave the trolls with models from WoW vanilla with no upgrade so we can make more upgrades to the human models. I mean, that's definitely not going to impact negatively the human players too when they see their trol-playing friend with very old models that don't fit in with the rest of the game!
You totally convinced me that releasing Primaris was better than releasing new Eldar aspect warriors.

 Kelligula wrote:
As much as I like Redemptors, I haven't bothered using them since the Armigers came out. Yeah Yeah I know. I'm that guy.

I'll admit to wanting to use my Redemptor to proxy one of those things since the stats are so much better.

The Newman wrote:

 Kelligula wrote:
As much as I like Redemptors, I haven't bothered using them since the Armigers came out. Yeah Yeah I know. I'm that guy.

I'll admit to wanting to use my Redemptor to proxy one of those things since the stats are so much better.

I'm desperately holding out for a Redemptor Mortis pattern dread. Two of them with twin Gatling cannons each would make my day!

 Stux wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
still in the MUST MAKE MORE MARINES loop.

I basically agree with the meat of what you say, but I wanted to take a bit of issue with this.

You say this like it's a problem, but honestly marines (loyal or chaos) have ALWAYS been the core of this game. It's what 40k is built on, what the lore is primarily focused on, and are the hook on which everything else in the setting hangs. Marines need to be the focus ultimately. The 'loop' is what the business relies on.

People sometimes say that if they put as much focus on a Xenos faction as they do on Marines that they would be just as popular, but I really think that's a fallacy. Marines are conceptually inherently more appealing to a larger proportion of gamers than any other faction. In pretty much every game, including ones where factions are more equally represented, the 'heroic humans' are more popular than other options.

Here's WoW racial distribution as a case in point.

WoW has a lot of the "rear view" factor going on when your going around grinding out levels. Your stuck looking at the backside of a character for hours so a lot of people prefer to have a more attractive race than some homely looking git. Also for the alliance it could be said that the choices in races skews the picks towards human and Nelf because a decent number of people don't really find Dwarves or Gnomes to be all that appealing visually or as a power fantasy. Note on the Horde side the massive amount of Blood Elves (the pretty Horde race) compared to the relatively close distribution of Orcs, Undead, Trolls, and Tauren which are all have a cool factor but not really a hotness factor. Another thing to remember is that for PVP, racial abilities where king and humans had one of the best racials on the Alliance side where as on Horde it was less clear cut with Undead, Blood Elves, and Orcs having some decent racials. Not saying your theory about people gravitating towards the human option is wrong, its just that there are a few other factors that muddy the waters a bit more than just "I want to power fantasy as a human".
Also people rightfully dislike pandas (who greenlit that idiotic idea?) but all them gitz need to recognize the superiority of gobbos

 Vankraken wrote:

 Stux wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
still in the MUST MAKE MORE MARINES loop.

I basically agree with the meat of what you say, but I wanted to take a bit of issue with this.

You say this like it's a problem, but honestly marines (loyal or chaos) have ALWAYS been the core of this game. It's what 40k is built on, what the lore is primarily focused on, and are the hook on which everything else in the setting hangs. Marines need to be the focus ultimately. The 'loop' is what the business relies on.

People sometimes say that if they put as much focus on a Xenos faction as they do on Marines that they would be just as popular, but I really think that's a fallacy. Marines are conceptually inherently more appealing to a larger proportion of gamers than any other faction. In pretty much every game, including ones where factions are more equally represented, the 'heroic humans' are more popular than other options.

Here's WoW racial distribution as a case in point.

WoW has a lot of the "rear view" factor going on when your going around grinding out levels. Your stuck looking at the backside of a character for hours so a lot of people prefer to have a more attractive race than some homely looking git. Also for the alliance it could be said that the choices in races skews the picks towards human and Nelf because a decent number of people don't really find Dwarves or Gnomes to be all that appealing visually or as a power fantasy. Note on the Horde side the massive amount of Blood Elves (the pretty Horde race) compared to the relatively close distribution of Orcs, Undead, Trolls, and Tauren which are all have a cool factor but not really a hotness factor. Another thing to remember is that for PVP, racial abilities where king and humans had one of the best racials on the Alliance side where as on Horde it was less clear cut with Undead, Blood Elves, and Orcs having some decent racials. Not saying your theory about people gravitating towards the human option is wrong, its just that there are a few other factors that muddy the waters a bit more than just "I want to power fantasy as a human".
Also people rightfully dislike pandas (who greenlit that idiotic idea?) but all them gitz need to recognize the superiority of gobbos

Ok, but I think you'll find this skew in pretty much every game. More people want to play as the faction they can identify with than other races. Certainly when picking their first faction. It's human nature.

 Ishagu wrote:
I'll defend the Repulsor a bit lol

It actually looks really cool in person, and it performs well - although as more codecies have come out it's currently a bit overpriced. I love the fact it flies and you can deploy it behind something then zoom over. The weapons are also very effective, lots of Dakka and anti tank firepower.

Bring on Chapter Approved!

Like most Primaris stuff, it looks better when not painted in GW's "toyetic blue" UM scheme.

 Ishagu wrote:
The Marine line hit a dead end, it was time for a new start.

If you want to alter one unit in the codex for balance you have to update 30 units across 5 codecies.
Their lore was super restrictive also. You'd have to retcon things into the past as they did with Centurions. Also, the Tanks really fell behind in terms of model wow factor when things like Riptides and Wraithknights are on the table. The Rhino chassis vehicles are all ugly, boring boxes. Nostalgic maybe, but certainly boring.

Now with Primaris you have different armours for each unit, a unique tank that sets them apart from more common Imperium armies as it hovers, a big Dreadnought that doesn't look like a midget next to every other walker in every other army. They aren't tied to the past, they aren't tied to a restrictive unit structure, they aren't limited by technological regression in the lore. The sky is the limit.

But for me, this is the problem. Appeal of the Imperium setting is that it is an empire in decline, with increasingly limited technological resources. Most of the really powerful weapons are irreplaceable relics, religiously revered and maintained. In this, Imperium is contrasted by Tau, who are more of a staple scifi faction, with technological development in upswing and Eldar, who are in decline just like Imperium, but have superior technology represented by flying vehicles and bikes etc. Against them, Imperium had its own archaic technology which perhaps isn't always as sophisticated but it was robust and proven.

But now, Primaris Marines bring all those themes for Imperial setting. Flying tanks, new experimental weapons etc. Now Imperium is just like the Eldar and Tau. Uniqueness of the setting is gone. It's just bunch of scifi cliche factions fighting it out with technological one-upmanship.

It's boring.

I figure this is the moment in the story before the hero stumbles.

Marine power armor has always run counter to the setting. Every mark is better than the last, because no one wants to buy toys less cool than the last one they bought.

Backfire wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
The Marine line hit a dead end, it was time for a new start.

If you want to alter one unit in the codex for balance you have to update 30 units across 5 codecies.
Their lore was super restrictive also. You'd have to retcon things into the past as they did with Centurions. Also, the Tanks really fell behind in terms of model wow factor when things like Riptides and Wraithknights are on the table. The Rhino chassis vehicles are all ugly, boring boxes. Nostalgic maybe, but certainly boring.

Now with Primaris you have different armours for each unit, a unique tank that sets them apart from more common Imperium armies as it hovers, a big Dreadnought that doesn't look like a midget next to every other walker in every other army. They aren't tied to the past, they aren't tied to a restrictive unit structure, they aren't limited by technological regression in the lore. The sky is the limit.

But for me, this is the problem. Appeal of the Imperium setting is that it is an empire in decline, with increasingly limited technological resources. Most of the really powerful weapons are irreplaceable relics, religiously revered and maintained. In this, Imperium is contrasted by Tau, who are more of a staple scifi faction, with technological development in upswing and Eldar, who are in decline just like Imperium, but have superior technology represented by flying vehicles and bikes etc. Against them, Imperium had its own archaic technology which perhaps isn't always as sophisticated but it was robust and proven.

But now, Primaris Marines bring all those themes for Imperial setting. Flying tanks, new experimental weapons etc. Now Imperium is just like the Eldar and Tau. Uniqueness of the setting is gone. It's just bunch of scifi cliche factions fighting it out with technological one-upmanship.

It's boring.

The Imperium is still an empire in decline (especially now that half of it is cut off from the rest), the Primarus are just the latest patch of duct tape to try and hold it together. 10,000 years ago they would have turned the tied and united the Imperium, but in the modern setting they're stuck putting out thousands of little fires while being unable to deal with the bigger issues.

And why do people seem to selectively forget that the Marines have always been a source of innovation in an otherwise stagnant Imperium? The Razorback was an adaptation of the Immolator STC, and even then it was only approved to have Heavy Bolters but the Marines stuck a bunch of other things on it to support their combat squads (if you can't have more bodies, might as well bring more bullets). Likewise the Land Raider got a few updates because of the needs of the moment too. Heck, even MkVIII power armour was an advancement in the materials and techniques being used as it was being rolled out. Let's not even get into the fact that MkV only exists because Marines kept sticking extra armour on their armour with bonding studs to combat the traitor's guns.

Marines adapt, improvise and then overcome. It's a staple of the setting and as long as the Guard isn't rolling around in hover tanks and shooting magic pixie cannons the Imperium is still just as boned (if not more boned) as it was before.

 Kelligula wrote:
As much as I like Redemptors, I haven't bothered using them since the Armigers came out. Yeah Yeah I know. I'm that guy.

Personally I don't blame you. The armiger is all around better than the redemptor. Which is a Marine Codex problem in general. There's always something better to use...

 Ishagu wrote:
I'll defend the Repulsor a bit lol

It actually looks really cool in person, and it performs well - although as more codecies have come out it's currently a bit overpriced. I love the fact it flies and you can deploy it behind something then zoom over. The weapons are also very effective, lots of Dakka and anti tank firepower.

Bring on Chapter Approved!

Yeah man totally agree. Thing has a lot of potential and I use it still because it's honestly the best thing we got.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
I'll defend the Repulsor a bit lol

It actually looks really cool in person, and it performs well - although as more codecies have come out it's currently a bit overpriced. I love the fact it flies and you can deploy it behind something then zoom over. The weapons are also very effective, lots of Dakka and anti tank firepower.

Bring on Chapter Approved!

Like most Primaris stuff, it looks better when not painted in GW's "toyetic blue" UM scheme.

Nah mine look great painted in blue.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 fraser1191 wrote:

 Kelligula wrote:
As much as I like Redemptors, I haven't bothered using them since the Armigers came out. Yeah Yeah I know. I'm that guy.

Personally I don't blame you. The armiger is all around better than the redemptor. Which is a Marine Codex problem in general. There's always something better to use...

Humm less see -
+6 move stat
5++ save
-1 W

Better guns.

Costs less by 30 points

Move and shoot no problem

Stratagem support.

I mean...Redemptor fist is nice but it's not that nice.

Blue isn't the problem. It's GW's way of painting blue that makes it look too "toy" like that I have a quibble with.

Backfire wrote:
But for me, this is the problem. Appeal of the Imperium setting is that it is an empire in decline, with increasingly limited technological resources. Most of the really powerful weapons are irreplaceable relics, religiously revered and maintained. In this, Imperium is contrasted by Tau, who are more of a staple scifi faction, with technological development in upswing and Eldar, who are in decline just like Imperium, but have superior technology represented by flying vehicles and bikes etc. Against them, Imperium had its own archaic technology which perhaps isn't always as sophisticated but it was robust and proven.

But now, Primaris Marines bring all those themes for Imperial setting. Flying tanks, new experimental weapons etc. Now Imperium is just like the Eldar and Tau. Uniqueness of the setting is gone. It's just bunch of scifi cliche factions fighting it out with technological one-upmanship.

It's boring.

I agree 100%

 ClockworkZion wrote:
The Imperium is still an empire in decline (especially now that half of it is cut off from the rest), the Primarus are just the latest patch of duct tape to try and hold it together.

But absolutely dehumanizing horrible things like, say, the whole DKoK is supposed to be the duct tape. Not “Harder better faster stronger” marines that were made by someone who understood the fundamental principle behind both the gene-engineering AND the technical engineering to significantly improve on both. And somehow it didn't even result in even more inhuman marines, or more disturbing transformation process. That's anti-40k, anti-grimdark as hell.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
And why do people seem to selectively forget that the Marines have always been a source of innovation in an otherwise stagnant Imperium?

Because “take chassis A and put weapon B on it” doesn't sound like it requires a deep understanding a deep understanding of the way the chassis work, and because those part of the fluff were usually extremely lame and just there to explain why only chapter snowflake got snowflake version of tank with same chassis different weapons loadout. Lazy minimal effort from GW.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
The Razorback was an adaptation of the Immolator STC, and even then it was only approved to have Heavy Bolters but the Marines stuck a bunch of other things on it to support their combat squads (if you can't have more bodies, might as well bring more bullets).

“A variant of the Predator Battle Tank designed to carry troops is believed to be the first precursor to the modern Razorback. However, the STC template for the Razorback was first rediscovered in M36 by Chief Artisan Tilvius while he was exploring the Southern Rim of the galaxy. When he returned to Mars, the Adeptus Mechanicus recognized it from earlier records and commenced work on its production. Within two hundred years the first Razorbacks were field-tested and began seeing service to the Adeptus Astartes soon after.”
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Razorback#History
Just finding the STC and using it, no relation to Immolator, no innovation.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Heck, even MkVIII power armour was an advancement in the materials and techniques being used as it was being rolled out.

And yet artificer armor or relic armor was older and better.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
The Imperium is still an empire in decline (especially now that half of it is cut off from the rest), the Primarus are just the latest patch of duct tape to try and hold it together.

But absolutely dehumanizing horrible things like, say, the whole DKoK is supposed to be the duct tape. Not “Harder better faster stronger” marines that were made by someone who understood the fundamental principle behind both the gene-engineering AND the technical engineering to significantly improve on both. And somehow it didn't even result in even more inhuman marines, or more disturbing transformation process. That's anti-40k, anti-grimdark as hell.

Marines are the store brand duct tape, the Guard are the store brand version.

And how do you know the Primaris didn't lose something? Have you asked Captain Felix of the Ultramarines of what he lost leaving the Imperium as it was rebuilding only to wake up in the nightmare of the modern setting? How about the iterrations of testing it took Cawl to make his Furnace implant without causing out of control tumor growth instead? What about the issues that likely came getting the Godmaker to work in a Marine's body that wasn't designed for it? Hell, the coils are the least dangerous part of the whole process since the Imperium is pretty good at doing those sorts of upgrades for the Mechanicum, and that involves wrapping your tendons and ligaments in some kind of wired up implant to increase contraction force. I can promise the new implantation process likely fails even more than the old one did just because of two of those implants being pretty dangerous for someone whose bodies can't adapt.

But sure, "no problems" and "less grimdark". Unless we get a second human Renaissance I'm calling BS. The Imperium is fighting a losing battle, Guilliman has to declare the Indomitus Crusade a "victory" just to give the Imperium something to hold onto and while it was all circling the drain before, someone broke the sink so now it's all going to hell even FASTER. At this point the Primaris are just another strap of duct tape trying to slow the leaking (as are the Custodes, as is Guilliman, as is EVERYTHING).

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
And why do people seem to selectively forget that the Marines have always been a source of innovation in an otherwise stagnant Imperium?

Because “take chassis A and put weapon B on it” doesn't sound like it requires a deep understanding a deep understanding of the way the chassis work, and because those part of the fluff were usually extremely lame and just there to explain why only chapter snowflake got snowflake version of tank with same chassis different weapons loadout. Lazy minimal effort from GW.

In a setting that requires chanting, incense, sacred unguents and a ceremony likely an hour (or more) long just to start a Rhino, I'm calling BS about the idea that it doesn't take "deep understanding". The average Imperial Citizen is barely literate, and to learn how to change the oil on a tank a Techmarine has to go through secret training on Mars. There is more involved than "slap a new gun on it" despite how easy it is to model.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Heck, even MkVIII power armour was an advancement in the materials and techniques being used as it was being rolled out.

And yet artificer armor or relic armor was older and better.

Hundreds of years of careful retooling and reworking versus a factory fresh suit of armour makes quite a bit of difference. Hell the love and care that artificer armour gets is on par with that Terminator armour gets. Of course it works better, it's been through a dozen skilled artisan's hands and likely assembled from the best parts of multiple suits of power armour.