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 ClockworkZion wrote:
Marines are the store brand duct tape, the Guard are the store brand version.

You wrote “store brand” for both.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
And how do you know the Primaris didn't lose something?

If they did and it's just not mentioned in the fluff then the fluff is still bad because it should be written about and emphasized.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Unless we get a second human Renaissance I'm calling BS.

We getting the foundation for this laid out before our eyes. Reasonable, rational leadership, political unity and scientific advances, things that were the opposite of 40k was about, are coming around.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
In a setting that requires chanting, incense, sacred unguents and a ceremony likely an hour (or more) long just to start a Rhino, I'm calling BS about the idea that it doesn't take "deep understanding".

But that's the point! Just changing the weapons is considered “incredibly advanced manipulation”. And then Cawl comes by and suddenly incredibly more complex task because perfectly feasible. Not once. Not twice. But, like, dozens of time at least? It's not just one thing that was imrproved, it's all the weapons and all the armors and all the vehicles and…!
All this new gear being invented doesn't fit well with a setting that requires chanting, incense, sacred unguents and a ceremony to start a rhino.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Hundreds of years of careful retooling and reworking versus a factory fresh suit of armour makes quite a bit of difference.

Yeah, 40k was never about having factory fresh suits of armor, except maybe for the very bad equipment. Now it is.
Even for the Imperial Guard, the Vostroyan got better equipment because it was older and more artisanal.

The problem you guys are having is the setting has always been a random collection of contradictory ideas. If you look at the setting in the clear light of day, it doesn't really work all that well. So both of you are right and both of you are wrong.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
The problem you guys are having is the setting has always been a random collection of contradictory ideas. If you look at the setting in the clear light of day, it doesn't really work all that well. So both of you are right and both of you are wrong.

I agree with this.

That's the problem with GW introducing ANYTHING new. 40k is interpreted differently by different people, who use different aspects of the contradictory narrative as the foundation for their personal interpretation of what is important to to the setting. So whatever GW does, some people get pissed off. They literally cannot win. But they have to do something new anyway, so a few pissed off people will have to either put up with it or move on.

But that's the point! Just changing the weapons is considered “incredibly advanced manipulation”. And then Cawl comes by and suddenly incredibly more complex task because perfectly feasible. Not once. Not twice. But, like, dozens of time at least? It's not just one thing that was imrproved, it's all the weapons and all the armors and all the vehicles and…!
All this new gear being invented doesn't fit well with a setting that requires chanting, incense, sacred unguents and a ceremony to start a rhino.

No it is considered tech heresy. The only way to get a new gun on something or a change to a gun design, is to either find a ancient golden era patern so that the mechanics can say that rhino chasis and demolisher cannons were ment to be slaped in to one thing all along, or pay a bribe so unimaginably high that the fabricator of Mars okeys it.

Cawl is a tech heretic and should be shot on sight by anyone who is member of the adeptus mechanicus and the church, and if those organisation go hand in hand it more or less anyone should be shoting him on sight.

I mean just imagine it. Durning the heresy the God emperor gave an short time order to move all land raiders in to space marine detachments. Kicked the bucket, before he could change it and no one, but marines can drive them. There are merchant houses in w40k, that have mind blowing rights given on the basis of a one page document, even the lords of terra can't over turn, because it has the blood drop signature of big E. And some of it is brutal stuff, a guy who owned a towing ship got the rights to tow stuff in a sector where there was 2 outposts and a listening station. Fast forward 10k years, and the guys family has the sole right to tow ships in a sector with multiple hives and a forge world.

I like Primaris Marines. But I also like terminators, bikers, etc...

So in my armies I mix primaris infantry and special units with space marine bikers, terminators and scouts.

As long as you don't mix intercessors with Tacticals it all looks good.

I completely agree that Primaris fluff is terrible. But it is nothing compared to a Primarch returning. Gathering Storm basically ruined the setting, and that is unfortunate. But I'm not going to let that to get in the way of me enjoying beautiful models. To me Primaris marines are just better looking marines, and I don't gonna fuss about the details, marines already had a grav tank in the Rogue Trader, they can have them again.



Oh, and look at these Inceptors from the Rogue Trader:

 Galas wrote:
I like Primaris Marines. But I also like terminators, bikers, etc...

So in my armies I mix primaris infantry and special units with space marine bikers, terminators and scouts.

As long as you don't mix intercessors with Tacticals it all looks good.

Yeah, visually I don't really have a problem with running Primaris alongside Terminators. I have a problem with the viability of Terminators, but that's a different issue!

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Marines are the store brand duct tape, the Guard are the store brand version.

You wrote “store brand” for both.

Sorry, meant to say the Marines were the name brand. Guess my mind was too busy thinking about painting minis.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
And how do you know the Primaris didn't lose something?

If they did and it's just not mentioned in the fluff then the fluff is still bad because it should be written about and emphasized.

Because the horrible things that go on in universe need to be explicitly stated everytime? I mean I didn't see anything about Cawl's "upgrade" being any easier on the recipient, nor did I read anything that said it was effortless for him, so why assume that is somehow turning the game into Brighthammer?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Unless we get a second human Renaissance I'm calling BS.

We getting the foundation for this laid out before our eyes. Reasonable, rational leadership, political unity and scientific advances, things that were the opposite of 40k was about, are coming around.

So a character who is known for being reasonable and rational (to a fault) in 30k returns and it's a detriment that he's still reasonable and rational in the face of an irrational universe? Not to mention that Guilliman has a number of irrational points too: Dark Imperium has him denying that the Warp pulls at him when he's in the midst of being teleported, he refuses to admit that his soul was injured by Fulgrim's blade and his whole near death experience came about from him walking into a trap while knowing it was a trap.

Political unity is supposed to be a thing in 40k (where you can get the Exterminatus for failing to tithe properly) but even a Primarch can't instantly fix things. Again, in Dark Imperium, which is set at the end of the Indomitus Crusade, Guilliman is still trying to reuinite the 500 worlds of Ultramar. If he can't fix his own backyard, what chance the Imperium as a whole has actually been set straight already? No chance at all. So the Imperium is still as corrupt as ever, and some are only paying lip service to Guilliman, much like they only paid lip service to the High Lords.

Said "Scientific Advances" are based on 10,000 years of innovation by one of the few people who could possibly be justified to know enough to actually pull it off in setting (especially if it's paired with 10,000 years of him continuing to absorb the knowledge of other magi like he did to his traitor mentor during the HH).

Basically I'm saying, your points are gross overstatements that seek to only look at a single green leaf on a dying tree.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
In a setting that requires chanting, incense, sacred unguents and a ceremony likely an hour (or more) long just to start a Rhino, I'm calling BS about the idea that it doesn't take "deep understanding".

But that's the point! Just changing the weapons is considered “incredibly advanced manipulation”. And then Cawl comes by and suddenly incredibly more complex task because perfectly feasible. Not once. Not twice. But, like, dozens of time at least? It's not just one thing that was imrproved, it's all the weapons and all the armors and all the vehicles and…!
All this new gear being invented doesn't fit well with a setting that requires chanting, incense, sacred unguents and a ceremony to start a rhino.

Cawl has had TEN THOUSAND YEARS to get his projects right, and has been building this arsenal up for likely at least half of that. It's not like he's a character barely a hundred years old who pulled this off, he's one of the last parts of a dead age of enlightenment. And even then he's already not responsible for every advancement for the Primaris (their new Super Heavy from FW is from a recovered STC that the Minotaurs found) and now that Cawl is spending his time trying to learn how to make Blackstone Pylons he's not likely to be responsible for all the advancements going forward either.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Hundreds of years of careful retooling and reworking versus a factory fresh suit of armour makes quite a bit of difference.

Yeah, 40k was never about having factory fresh suits of armor, except maybe for the very bad equipment. Now it is.
Even for the Imperial Guard, the Vostroyan got better equipment because it was older and more artisanal.

MkVIII was factory fresh armour. Heck, plenty of MkVII suits were still pretty new when the 13th Black Crusade happened. Both of those were improvements over what came before. Marine armour marks have ALWAYS about been improving something from what came before, even if the change ultimately did little to truly improve how protective it was. Longer power supply life, quieter movement, the ability to turn your head...even if they weren't massive leaps forward to us, they were innovations built on years of study of STC tech, and the application of new STC tech as it arose.

And considering that the HH showed us human sized power armour being aimed at the Luna Wolves in the first book, I'm going to say it: mot of MkX is likely just larger power armour with some innovations nicked from previous marks in an effort to take the best points of several iterations. It's not new as much as it is building on every mark that came before it to make something that is the culmination of the best designs available. Heck, you can even look at Gravis armour as a cross of a Centurion and a Terminator in concept, and likely some of the tech is similar too.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So a character who is known for being reasonable and rational (to a fault) in 30k returns and it's a detriment that he's still reasonable and rational in the face of an irrational universe?

Yes! It is not that it doesn't make sense, it is that it changes the narrative: bringing him back was a colossal mistake. There is no need for reason or rationality in 40K!


"Reason begets doubt; Doubt begets heresy."

"Reason is the cloak of Traitors."

"A logical argument must be dismissed with absolute conviction!"

"Enlightenment is a myth we do not need to understand in order to hate."

"Facts are chains that bind perception and fetter truth. For a man can remake the world if he has a dream and no facts to cloud his mind."

 Crimson wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So a character who is known for being reasonable and rational (to a fault) in 30k returns and it's a detriment that he's still reasonable and rational in the face of an irrational universe?

Yes! It is not that it doesn't make sense, it is that it changes the narrative: bringing him back was a colossal mistake. There is no need for reason or rationality in 40K!


"Reason begets doubt; Doubt begets heresy."

"Reason is the cloak of Traitors."

"A logical argument must be dismissed with absolute conviction!"

"Enlightenment is a myth we do not need to understand in order to hate."

"Facts are chains that bind perception and fetter truth. For a man can remake the world if he has a dream and no facts to cloud his mind."

I'd argue that letting the Daemon Primarchs come back (who honestly shouldn't have been gone for as long as they were all things considered) warrants enough of a reason to bring some of the loyalists back too. The Imperium is supposed to be a sinking ship, not a sunk one (unless we went full End Times and went Bubblehammer 40k like everyone claimed we'd be doing during Gathering Storm), so giving the Imperium something to lean on was needed narratively. Guilliman was the only one that the Imperium knows were he is, and even had a narrative chip that could be played as the faithful that visited him swore his wound was somehow healing despite him being locked in status (power of faith being what it is, it could have been healing the physical wound, but it took Yvrainne to heal his soul enough to let him not just die anyways).

Plus we need to remember the 40k universe runs on dramatic tension, so basically we need the scales to stay roughly balanced to maintain that tension.

I don't know if you guys use it, but I downloaded the Citadel painting app and there are no regular marines on it. They are all Primaris. Now, GW could be doing this to promote them, but I reckon we'll be seeing more and more Primaris model options show up and a gradual phasing of the regular marine models.

No. Daemon Primarchs have always existed in the fluff, they're not new. Imperium didn't need anything to balance them, they already control the most of the galaxy while the Chaos hides in the Eye of Terror like scared wussies.

 Crimson wrote:
No. Daemon Primarchs have always existed in the fluff, they're not new. Imperium didn't need anything to balance them, they already control the most of the galaxy while the Chaos hides in the Eye of Terror like scared wussies.

They always existed in the fluff but they weren't impacting the game at the level they should have been. Heck, most of them just sat around with their daemonically mutated thumb up their daemonically mutated butt.

And while the Imperium "controls" most of the galaxy it's largely in name only. Outside of paying tithes most planets are largely ignored, there are more war fronts than ever now and generally speaking not only is it going to hell in a handbasket, now the basket is on fire too.

Point was that making the Daemon Primarchs the threats to the galaxy they should have been swung things narratively too far into Chaos' favor, and to balance that back out we needed someone on the Imperium's side to balance it out. I get that not everyone likes the changes, or how they were implimented, or wants to say everything should have stayed the same, but honestly I dig every change so far (though Yvrainne needs a debuff pretty soon because she's a literal walking Deus Ex Machina and kills dramatic tension every time she shows up now), and while I don't agree with every detail the overall direction is a good one in my book.

But I guess that's because I approach the game from a direction that lets me accept the idea that things change more than others. Or something. I don't know. I was painting an Abominant until nearly midnight and got up after around 5 hours of sleep this morning.

Chaos having Primarchs while the Imperium does not would have allowed Chaos to feel like a threat for once. Inquisitors and marine heroes desperately trying to counter these ancient daemonic monstrosities would have allowed some of that same cool feel that FB Empire vs. Chaos had. There the Empire was clearly the underdog which persisted nevertheless, which made them really cool.

 Crimson wrote:
Chaos having Primarchs while the Imperium does not would have allowed Chaos to feel like a threat for once. Inquisitors and marine heroes desperately trying to counter these ancient daemonic monstrosities would have allowed some of that same cool feel that FB Empire vs. Chaos had. There the Empire was clearly the underdog which persisted nevertheless, which made them really cool.

Chaos being allowed to have victories outside of the Black Library already makes them more of a threat. Bringing back literal daemonically supercharged demigods on the Chaos side made the Imperium little more than a joke in terms of how it was supposed to resist that in the slightest.

Primaris are clearly destined to replace the existing tactical marine line. Its a malevolent strategy of GW to extract another round of profit from the large number of SM players

One should never buy Primaris, because you are encouraging GW to start invalidating other model ranges.

'First they came for space marines, and I did not speak out-
Because I did not collect space marines
Then they came for Tau, and I did not speak out-
Because I did not collect Tau
Then they came for Tyranids, and I did not speak out-
Because I did not collect Tyranids
Then they came for Eldar- and there was no one left to speak for me'

Mordian2016 wrote:
Primaris are clearly destined to replace the existing tactical marine line. Its a malevolent strategy of GW to extract another round of profit from the large number of SM players

One should never buy Primaris, because you are encouraging GW to start invalidating other model ranges.

'First they came for the space marines, and I did not speak out-
Because I did not collect space marines
Then they came for the Tau, and I did not speak out-

I thought you were serious when you were claiming malevolence (which really isn't a GW policy since Kirby got the boot), but the post clearly has devolved into trolling. Regular Marines can still be "count as" Primaris in the future, while there are model lines that were invalidated and don't have the ability to be played normally anymore (Squats, Bretonnians, Tomb Kings, everyone's special character conversions from RT through 5th before GW started killing all the special characters who didn't have their own models, some of which had unique wargear you can't get normally).

Mordian2016 wrote:
Primaris are clearly destined to replace the existing tactical marine line. Its a malevolent strategy of GW to extract another round of profit from the large number of SM players

One should never buy Primaris, because you are encouraging GW to start invalidating other model ranges.

So I must assume thst your marine army is entirely composed of the Rogue Trader beakies, as you certainly would not have complied this malevolent strategy in all those previous times.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Mordian2016 wrote:
Primaris are clearly destined to replace the existing tactical marine line. Its a malevolent strategy of GW to extract another round of profit from the large number of SM players

One should never buy Primaris, because you are encouraging GW to start invalidating other model ranges.

'First they came for the space marines, and I did not speak out-
Because I did not collect space marines
Then they came for the Tau, and I did not speak out-

I thought you were serious when you were claiming malevolence (which really isn't a GW policy since Kirby got the boot), but the post clearly has devolved into trolling. Regular Marines can still be "count as" Primaris in the future, while there are model lines that were invalidated and don't have the ability to be played normally anymore (Squats, Bretonnians, Tomb Kings, everyone's special character conversions from RT through 5th before GW started killing all the special characters who didn't have their own models, some of which had unique wargear you can't get normally).

You are just providing more evidence that GW has a track record of invalidating entire armies and model ranges, with no redress for customers

Mordian2016 wrote:
Primaris are clearly destined to replace the existing tactical marine line. Its a malevolent strategy of GW to extract another round of profit from the large number of SM players

One should never buy Primaris, because you are encouraging GW to start invalidating other model ranges.

'First they came for space marines, and I did not speak out-
Because I did not collect space marines
Then they came for Tau, and I did not speak out-
Because I did not collect Tau
Then they came for Tyranids, and I did not speak out-
Because I did not collect Tyranids
Then they came for Eldar- and there was no one left to speak for me'

Which is why saying "these are new, distinct units with different stats and rules existing alongside normal-size Marines" was the error. If they'd said "this is a resculpt of Tactical Marines, and any new kits in older armour are going to exist under the Heresy label" new players and people who think they're cooler-looking would have made a beeline for them and the players who didn't like them would have been able to grumble about kids these days but still use their ancient beakie Marines and benefit from the new statline, as-is they've got people who do like Primaris annoyed that they don't work well as a complete army and the players who don't like Primaris paranoid that their collections are going to be Squatted.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Mordian2016 wrote:
Primaris are clearly destined to replace the existing tactical marine line. Its a malevolent strategy of GW to extract another round of profit from the large number of SM players

One should never buy Primaris, because you are encouraging GW to start invalidating other model ranges.

'First they came for space marines, and I did not speak out-
Because I did not collect space marines
Then they came for Tau, and I did not speak out-
Because I did not collect Tau
Then they came for Tyranids, and I did not speak out-
Because I did not collect Tyranids
Then they came for Eldar- and there was no one left to speak for me'

Which is why saying "these are new, distinct units with different stats and rules existing alongside normal-size Marines" was the error. If they'd said "this is a resculpt of Tactical Marines, and any new kits in older armour are going to exist under the Heresy label" new players and people who think they're cooler-looking would have made a beeline for them and the players who didn't like them would have been able to grumble about kids these days but still use their ancient beakie Marines and benefit from the new statline, as-is they've got people who do like Primaris annoyed that they don't work well as a complete army and the players who don't like Primaris paranoid that their collections are going to be Squatted.

You are spot on. Couldn't agree more

To add further, the hammy Mary Sue fluff of the Primaris back story, shows it is all an exercise in maximising profit extraction rather than a creative endeavour

Mordian2016 wrote:
Primaris are clearly destined to replace the existing tactical marine line. Its a malevolent strategy of GW to extract another round of profit from the large number of SM players

One should never buy Primaris, because you are encouraging GW to start invalidating other model ranges.

'First they came for space marines, and I did not speak out-
Because I did not collect space marines
Then they came for Tau, and I did not speak out-
Because I did not collect Tau
Then they came for Tyranids, and I did not speak out-
Because I did not collect Tyranids
Then they came for Eldar- and there was no one left to speak for me'

Wow. Really? Of all the completely incorrect analogies you chose that one... ohhh ofc it's "a joke" if called on it, but seriously... have some fething sense of taste, dude.

Mordian2016 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Mordian2016 wrote:
Primaris are clearly destined to replace the existing tactical marine line. Its a malevolent strategy of GW to extract another round of profit from the large number of SM players

One should never buy Primaris, because you are encouraging GW to start invalidating other model ranges.

'First they came for the space marines, and I did not speak out-
Because I did not collect space marines
Then they came for the Tau, and I did not speak out-

I thought you were serious when you were claiming malevolence (which really isn't a GW policy since Kirby got the boot), but the post clearly has devolved into trolling. Regular Marines can still be "count as" Primaris in the future, while there are model lines that were invalidated and don't have the ability to be played normally anymore (Squats, Bretonnians, Tomb Kings, everyone's special character conversions from RT through 5th before GW started killing all the special characters who didn't have their own models, some of which had unique wargear you can't get normally).

You are just providing more evidence that GW has a track record of invalidating entire armies and model ranges, with no redress for customers

I was more pointing out that there were better examples to use to make your claim with than Primaris who are at least compatible with existing Marine models acting as proxies versus actual options that were removed and never given a counterpart they could proxy as.

 KTG17 wrote:
I don't know if you guys use it, but I downloaded the Citadel painting app and there are no regular marines on it. They are all Primaris. Now, GW could be doing this to promote them, but I reckon we'll be seeing more and more Primaris model options show up and a gradual phasing of the regular marine models.

You need to look harder mate, there are several regular marine units on it.

 Crimson wrote:

Yes! It is not that it doesn't make sense, it is that it changes the narrative: bringing him back was a colossal mistake. There is no need for reason or rationality in 40K!

Yes there is. You add a character that stands for reason and rationality, who serves as a beacon of light. You want him so that you can tear him and everything he stands for down to better remind everybody there's no hope in a galaxy consumed by fear, war, and hatred.

Ever since Guilliman returned, he has had a target on his back.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

robbienw wrote:

 KTG17 wrote:
I don't know if you guys use it, but I downloaded the Citadel painting app and there are no regular marines on it. They are all Primaris. Now, GW could be doing this to promote them, but I reckon we'll be seeing more and more Primaris model options show up and a gradual phasing of the regular marine models.

You need to look harder mate, there are several regular marine units on it.

No, he's right. Unless by 'several', you mean four: Death Company, Sanguinary Guard, Deathwing, and Ravenwing. Of the 14 Space Marine models listed in the "Paint by Miniature section", 10 are Intercessors.

I think it's probably because their bigger size and better proportions gives you a much better idea how the scheme looks on infantry rather than a hidden message saying "feth the squatties".

I'm confused, when did continuing product support become a life time requirement?

I get that it sucks when you army is not valid in the current edition, but it's still playable in the edition you bought it for. My Bretonnians are still perfectly playable in 6th Warhammer Fantasy Battles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lemondish wrote:

I think it's probably because their bigger size and better proportions gives you a much better idea how the scheme looks on infantry rather than a hidden message saying "feth the squatties".

And TBH Primaris are a lot more fun to paint than classic marines.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
I'm confused, when did continuing product support become a life time requirement?

I get that it sucks when you army is not valid in the current edition, but it's still playable in the edition you bought it for. My Bretonnians are still perfectly playable in 6th Warhammer Fantasy Battles.

Not only that, we aren't anywhere CLOSE to marines becoming Brets at this point. Hell, the best marine units at a high end competitive level have no Primaris equivalent whatsoever.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

I think it's probably because their bigger size and better proportions gives you a much better idea how the scheme looks on infantry rather than a hidden message saying "feth the squatties".

And TBH Primaris are a lot more fun to paint than classic marines.

I absolutely agree. I like the look of Primaris marines. I think they're great models and they're a ton of fun to paint.

I also can't think of a clean way to shift the marine identity towards the Legion concept without relying on new units.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Chaos having Primarchs while the Imperium does not would have allowed Chaos to feel like a threat for once. Inquisitors and marine heroes desperately trying to counter these ancient daemonic monstrosities would have allowed some of that same cool feel that FB Empire vs. Chaos had. There the Empire was clearly the underdog which persisted nevertheless, which made them really cool.

Chaos being allowed to have victories outside of the Black Library already makes them more of a threat. Bringing back literal daemonically supercharged demigods on the Chaos side made the Imperium little more than a joke in terms of how it was supposed to resist that in the slightest.

How was the Imperium supposed to resist?

Absolute tyranny. Religious fanaticism. Brainwashing. A scorched earth policy even against their own populations. Barely understood psychic abilities heralding the cusp of a dangerous human evolution. Un-understood technologies and the most resource-gobbling leviathan of a military in the history of the galaxy. With the occasional dash of usually-witless heroism.

robbienw wrote:

 KTG17 wrote:
I don't know if you guys use it, but I downloaded the Citadel painting app and there are no regular marines on it. They are all Primaris. Now, GW could be doing this to promote them, but I reckon we'll be seeing more and more Primaris model options show up and a gradual phasing of the regular marine models.

You need to look harder mate, there are several regular marine units on it.

No, he's right. Unless by 'several', you mean four: Death Company, Sanguinary Guard, Deathwing, and Ravenwing. Of the 14 Space Marine models listed in the "Paint by Miniature section", 10 are Intercessors.

No he is wrong. He said there are no regular marines on it, there are regular marines on it, therefore he is wrong. There is also 5 of them; you missed the Grey Knight Paladin

Five is enough to meet the dictionary definition of several I am sure

I think its because GW is giving Primaris the hard sell, and because they are probably easier for newer modellers to paint, due to their large size.

Oh no - does that mean that only Forge World will continue to churn out endless slightly different Marines and GW won;t constantly clog the release schedule with both Primairs and Old Marines?

Wow First World Problems.

What New Marine modles do we actually need eh?

I have hundreds - so what retcon crap do people suddenly want to see - e have suffered Centurions and toy flyers

GW have never bothered to expand the other Chapters - including the other First Founding so unless you want more Wolves on Wolves firing Wolfly guns then I cant see the issue.