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 Kanluwen wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:

Scions are their own regiments, just much smaller. I don’t think a standard HWT would work with their quick strike tactics. Maybe some kind of fast attack that works in similar fashion to Inceptors. Honestly though, a scion army (with rule of three) is just a battalion and a patrol detachment (unless you’re using Valkyries).

Fluffwise yes, Scions are their own thing.
Gamewise? They're not. You can't field a Battalion or Brigade without removing their Regimental traits thanks to the wording.

And really, if you think that a "standard HWT" wouldn't work with their quick strike tactics? You must have missed the Elysians having them.

I forgot about Elysians. But, frankly, I don’t want Scions to be the new Elysians if Elysians don’t get more love from Forge World.

Scions can field battalions, so I don’t know what you’re talking about. Two Tempestor Primes, at least three Scion squads. Bam, battalion. Add in command squads and Taurox Primes and you’ve got the bulk of your army. Plus a patrol for the third Tempestor Prime to lead if you need more than six squads from the battalion. Also, an Airwing with Valkyries is still quite thematic, as they were known (and still are) for deploying and acting as gunships for Scions.

First with GW wanting to protect their IP they need to retire the Cadian set. They are too vanilla. Redesign a new more 40k style regiment. Load them up with a lot of goodies. Have a contest to design a second group of infantry. This will get peoples feedback and keep them from releasing something people don't want. I don't know why GW is scared of having multiple guard regiments. Chaos and loyalist marines have multiple armies in different styles. GW is first a model company they should be throwing as many different styles of kits as they can handle.

ENTER THE GUARDSMEN PRIMARIS! It's like guardsmen, but bigger and less details and less "heroic scale" the entire game is based on!

FYI, the 'Heroic scale' system is a miniature scaling system where it purposely skews the proportions - compare gundams vs SD gundams (here the SD gundams are actually the normal scales and gundams the heroic scale). It's SUPPOSED TO BE disproportional.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniature_model_(gaming)

 Apple Peel wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:

Scions are their own regiments, just much smaller. I don’t think a standard HWT would work with their quick strike tactics. Maybe some kind of fast attack that works in similar fashion to Inceptors. Honestly though, a scion army (with rule of three) is just a battalion and a patrol detachment (unless you’re using Valkyries).

Fluffwise yes, Scions are their own thing.
Gamewise? They're not. You can't field a Battalion or Brigade without removing their Regimental traits thanks to the wording.

And really, if you think that a "standard HWT" wouldn't work with their quick strike tactics? You must have missed the Elysians having them.

I forgot about Elysians. But, frankly, I don’t want Scions to be the new Elysians if Elysians don’t get more love from Forge World.

Elysians and Scions are very much a similar concept and that's intentional. The big difference was always supposed to be that Scions/Stormtroopers were more heavily armored while Elysians were lighter armored.

Scions can field battalions, so I don’t know what you’re talking about. Two Tempestor Primes, at least three Scion squads. Bam, battalion. Add in command squads and Taurox Primes and you’ve got the bulk of your army. Plus a patrol for the third Tempestor Prime to lead if you need more than six squads from the battalion.

Yeah. You can do a Battalion. That's my bad, but you still cannot do anything larger than the Battalion or Patrol because doing so would remove the ability for you to get the Tempestus Regimental trait.

If you somehow think that "standard HWTs" will ruin the theme, that's fine for you--I don't. If Elysians or Vostroyans or Valhallans or Steel Legion can have them? No reason for Scions to not have them.

Also, an Airwing with Valkyries is still quite thematic, as they were known (and still are) for deploying and acting as gunships for Scions.

I mean, if you really want to get into it that's only in GW publications. Anywhere else, it makes it clear the Vultures are the gunships detached from the Imperial Navy.

Valkyries are assault carriers, not dedicated gunships.

Give them some character. That's all I ask. Bring back unique regiments which are actually visually interesting. A regiment would need nothing more than a basic squad box, and one heavy weapon box. Throw in a command box if you're being generous (include some tank drivers in this same box).

Guard are so fething boring right now, it's absurd. Catachans, while cool enough in concept are completely gak models.

If you're doing new boxes, for the love of god put some head options in there so you can differentiate your basic boxes. More or less, just do ANYTHING other than what Guard get right now.

Scions aren't a typical style of unit though. They're supposed to be high speed low drag spec ops troops. What you're proposing would be like asking why doesnt seal team 6 lug around 50 Cal's and mortars. That's not their typical mission. They're not supposed to dig in on a line and hold it, thats what guardsmen can do for far cheaper and arguably more effectively. The role of heavy weapons in a Scion list is already covered, by their transports. The taurox prime, Valkyrie/vendetta, and even the chimera all fulfill that same role while maintaining the maneuverability needed to keep up with the troops they support.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Scions aren't a typical style of unit though. They're supposed to be high speed low drag spec ops troops. What you're proposing would be like asking why doesnt seal team 6 lug around 50 Cal's and mortars. That's not their typical mission. They're not supposed to dig in on a line and hold it, thats what guardsmen can do for far cheaper and arguably more effectively.

They're supposed to do whatever they're tasked for, and they're supposed to have the equipment necessary for it.

Not sure why you think that them having heavy weapon teams equates to them "digging in on a line and holding it". You bring up Seal Team 6--you know that it's a specific team within an overall group that does have access to those weapons right? For stuff like launching ambushes or doing perimeter security for operations?

The role of heavy weapons in a Scion list is already covered, by their transports. The taurox prime, Valkyrie/vendetta, and even the chimera all fulfill that same role while maintaining the maneuverability needed to keep up with the troops they support.

Funny you mention that since the Taurox Prime has at least one set of weapon options(Hotshot Volley Guns) that a squad carries. The Chimera isn't Scion equipment either.

Elbows wrote:Give them some character. That's all I ask. Bring back unique regiments which are actually visually interesting. A regiment would need nothing more than a basic squad box, and one heavy weapon box. Throw in a command box if you're being generous (include some tank drivers in this same box).

I usually go for something like this if we're going really crazy:
Command Squad/Veterans box(10 models with options for Veterans and Officers)--also gets used to build a 'signature' unit for the Regiment(Kasrkin, Catachan Devils, etc). Parts that can fit on the tank commander from the LRBT or other vehicle kits to customize them a bit.
Basic Infantry Squad box(10 models). Has the kit options for an updated, Heavy Weapons Team-less Infantry Squad. Sergeant has all his available options in this box, along with at least one of each Special Weapon choice.
Heavy Weapons Squad box. Builds 3 Heavy Weapons Teams, with extra legs/torsos that can be used for the Basilisk kit(assuming it never gets redone).

Guard are so fething boring right now, it's absurd. Catachans, while cool enough in concept are completely gak models.

The sad part is that the Command Squad and Heavy Weapon Squad box actually are really acceptable fare. The Infantry Squad is just...yeah. It shows its age.

If you're doing new boxes, for the love of god put some head options in there so you can differentiate your basic boxes. More or less, just do ANYTHING other than what Guard get right now.

If it were me...
10x Helmeted Heads(normal)
10x Helmeted+Visored Heads
10x assorted unhelmeted heads. Mix of caps and bareheaded, maybe some bionics and respirators with straps showing.
10x respirators that attach to the heads.

Given that GW aren't going to want to make loads of regiments in plastic, I think the best we can hope for is versatile kits that can make a variety of regiments. They don't necessarily have to be the ones we know and love, but if those can be fitted into the scheme all the better.
I can picture these coming in sets of 3, pretty much as Kanluwen suggested - a basic infantry box, a heavy weapons box and a command/specialists/bits and gubbins box.

I would do those three boxes for each for:
- 'modern look' fatigues and flak armour
- greatcoats
- dress uniforms.

So that's 9 kits, which is a not-out-of-the-question number - after all they've just replaced the Ork buggy with 6 kits. Each of those would come with a variety of heads and extra bits to allow you to make different regiments from it. For example, give the flak armour boxes Cadian style helmets and fully enclosed helmets, the greatcoat boxes steel legion style helmets and ushankas, the dress uniform boxes parade caps, bearskins and pith helmets, if not even more head choices than that. Make all the joints fully interchangeable so you can mix and match bits if you want. Make a subtle but noticeable mix of body shapes and make a good number of the heads female. Make subtle differences in the style of the equipment - e.g. the dress uniforms kits have more 'fancy' versions of the lasguns etc.

I think something like that would allow GW to offer a decent mix of regiments of different styles to satisfy different IG tastes. There's been a few discussions I can think of recently where it's clear that people have different ideas of what they like out of their Guard - modern vs. historical themed being one of the more prominent ones. It wouldn't take that many kits for them to cater to *most* tastes.

If they did this I'd be very tempted. As it is, I'm very tempted to start an IG army with Anvil Regiments models instead.

I really don't see why GW can't just make 2/3 plastic regiment boxes.

Call them Imperial Guard.

 Hollow wrote:
I really don't see why GW can't just make 2/3 plastic regiment boxes.

Costs. They could, but maybe making some other models would make them more revenue than having two Guard regiment options.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Call them Imperial Guard.

Please only ask for things within reason.

 Galas wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
In the third or fourth edition codex there was a sketch of some IG in long coats and modernish body armor. I think they may have been labeled as the Necromunda Spiders. I would like to see them or the Vostroyans, or some other heavily Blanched mini design. The Starstriders look great, but I'd like to see something a little less Love Boat Security and more ...well, Imperial Guard.


Oh, and at least a few female heads and bodies should be on the sprue.

Give me this as Imperial Guard and I'll buy tons! (But to be honest probably they would be too similar to Skitarii Vanguards)

Spoiler:

Oh god, yes please!! I've actually been toying with the idea of merging the cadian kit with the skitari vanguard box to achieve a similar look.

meleti wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
I really don't see why GW can't just make 2/3 plastic regiment boxes.

Costs. They could, but maybe making some other models would make them more revenue than having two Guard regiment options.

My main issue with this...is if they can justify plastic kits for Bloodbowl Teams and Necromunda gangs...they can justify a few plastic kits for Imperial Guard. I feel the same way about Eldar though (if they were to ever get plastic Aspect Warrior kits). IG are a pretty healthy selling force, they wouldn't struggle to shift 2-3 different versions of Guard basic kits.

 Elbows wrote:
My main issue with this...is if they can justify plastic kits for Bloodbowl Teams and Necromunda gangs...they can justify a few plastic kits for Imperial Guard. I feel the same way about Eldar though (if they were to ever get plastic Aspect Warrior kits). IG are a pretty healthy selling force, they wouldn't struggle to shift 2-3 different versions of Guard basic kits.

Come to think of it, the Orlock Gang can make a fairly good stand in for a Guard regiment if all else fails.

 Elbows wrote:

meleti wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
I really don't see why GW can't just make 2/3 plastic regiment boxes.

Costs. They could, but maybe making some other models would make them more revenue than having two Guard regiment options.

My main issue with this...is if they can justify plastic kits for Bloodbowl Teams and Necromunda gangs...they can justify a few plastic kits for Imperial Guard. I feel the same way about Eldar though (if they were to ever get plastic Aspect Warrior kits). IG are a pretty healthy selling force, they wouldn't struggle to shift 2-3 different versions of Guard basic kits.

The Blood Bowl Teams and Necromunda Gangs are in stock for the launch of the items, then they go to Direct Only.

That is likely the major concern with Guard. They might not "struggle to shift" them...but the stores might have issues with shelf space.

epronovost wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
My main issue with this...is if they can justify plastic kits for Bloodbowl Teams and Necromunda gangs...they can justify a few plastic kits for Imperial Guard. I feel the same way about Eldar though (if they were to ever get plastic Aspect Warrior kits). IG are a pretty healthy selling force, they wouldn't struggle to shift 2-3 different versions of Guard basic kits.

Come to think of it, the Orlock Gang can make a fairly good stand in for a Guard regiment if all else fails.

This was my plan. Orlock with a head swap from Scions (berets) or Empire pistoliers (helmets, maybe beards). But then I bought the Van Saars and realized GW doesn't sanction my headswap buffoonery.

 skchsan wrote:
ENTER THE GUARDSMEN PRIMARIS! It's like guardsmen, but bigger and less details and less "heroic scale" the entire game is based on!

FYI, the 'Heroic scale' system is a miniature scaling system where it purposely skews the proportions - compare gundams vs SD gundams (here the SD gundams are actually the normal scales and gundams the heroic scale). It's SUPPOSED TO BE disproportional.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniature_model_(gaming)

FWIW, Primaris are still heroic scaled... they’re far from realistic.

Plastic Death Korps!

They're the nicest models in the entire Games-Workshop catalog!

STEEL LEGION!!!

Cadians are too generic sci-fi anyways. We need a better grim-dark face of the IG. Give us Steel Legion! And we know they are going to do an Armageddon campaign anyways. So it would be perfect. Plastic Ghaz, plastic Steel Legion and new Khorne bezerkers!

 Ginjitzu wrote:
Plastic Death Korps!

They're the nicest models in the entire Games-Workshop catalog!

I imagine they ae to finicky and spindly to get them into plastic form. So they will stay resin, mostlikely.

That said if it could be done , then i think nobody would be opposed to it.

 General Kroll wrote:
I’d have a generic box with Cadian heads, then sell upgrade sprues that cater for anyone who wants to mix things up a bit.

This. I've always felt all guardsmen would have a similar basic look, but each regiment could have unique parts added, ie turbans and goggles for Talharn, Flat caps and shoulder epaulettes for Mordian, etc etc. Also, each upgrade sprue could have a single model such as a sergeant based on the regiment.

 Huron black heart wrote:

 General Kroll wrote:
I’d have a generic box with Cadian heads, then sell upgrade sprues that cater for anyone who wants to mix things up a bit.

This. I've always felt all guardsmen would have a similar basic look, but each regiment could have unique parts added, ie turbans and goggles for Talharn, Flat caps and shoulder epaulettes for Mordian, etc etc. Also, each upgrade sprue could have a single model such as a sergeant based on the regiment.

Yeah, instead of putting the whole squad on a single sprue, break it up to allow customization. Legs, bodies and arms (with no shoulder pads) all on one. Then each regiment gets a head, shoulderpad (or equivalent), and gubbins sprue to set it apart. Gives all guard a largely unified look, but with enough differentiation you can tell who's who. Ignoring how catachan is already portrayed, you can get most of the rest out of those sets; plus enough customization for mix and match with others to make your own regiment.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Elbows wrote:

meleti wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
I really don't see why GW can't just make 2/3 plastic regiment boxes.

Costs. They could, but maybe making some other models would make them more revenue than having two Guard regiment options.

My main issue with this...is if they can justify plastic kits for Bloodbowl Teams and Necromunda gangs...they can justify a few plastic kits for Imperial Guard. I feel the same way about Eldar though (if they were to ever get plastic Aspect Warrior kits). IG are a pretty healthy selling force, they wouldn't struggle to shift 2-3 different versions of Guard basic kits.

The Blood Bowl Teams and Necromunda Gangs are in stock for the launch of the items, then they go to Direct Only.

That is likely the major concern with Guard. They might not "struggle to shift" them...but the stores might have issues with shelf space.

Maybe this is more of an American thing, or even a Jersey thing but I've never bought anything from a GW store in person and only rarely buy things in person since the closest gaming store to me closed. The next closet two are kinda trip and amazon or other online retailers offer a significant discount. If shelf space was an issue then FW wouldn''t exist.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Maybe this is more of an American thing, or even a Jersey thing but I've never bought anything from a GW store in person and only rarely buy things in person since the closest gaming store to me closed. The next closet two are kinda trip and amazon or other online retailers offer a significant discount. If shelf space was an issue then FW wouldn''t exist.

If it wasn't for the need to keep a physical store to encourage and support the game portion of the hobby, it's probable that GW would have closed 95% of it's physical location and rely on online sale only. Brick and mortar stores are dying no matter the type of product they sell. If there weren't constrain in shelf space and company policy about them, we could hope to see several different IG regiments, but we should expect no more than one or two because of that and they won't be multi-kits for reason of price. You require a lot of guards to make an army so you can't ask for $50 per box like you can do for Space Marines or Eldars and expect people, especially teenagers, to collect those armies. Multi-kits are more expensive and thus require a higher price to remain profitable. That's the main reason why Orks, little Tyranids and Guards are troop boxes are cheaper. They compensate with volume of sales while not creating a too big barrier to start collecting.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Cadians or Catachans at all right now. Redoing both to make the characters look a little more realistic (rather than their arms, legs, hands, and feet being huge) would be awesome.

SG

Plastic Steel Legion. GW not having produced these yet seems like a classic case of willfully leaving money on the table. The success of FW's DKoK should have shown them that.

HoundsofDemos wrote:

Maybe this is more of an American thing, or even a Jersey thing but I've never bought anything from a GW store in person and only rarely buy things in person since the closest gaming store to me closed. The next closet two are kinda trip and amazon or other online retailers offer a significant discount. If shelf space was an issue then FW wouldn''t exist.

Forge World isn't stocked on shelves, outside of a limited amount at Warhammer World and the Citadel.

It's a thing that seems to motivate some smaller shops and GW themselves. They want to ensure that they can stock a good chunk of the range so you can have someone walk in and walk out with most of what they came in to find.

Geeze if GW does Steel Legion can we make them like, 20% less Nazi?

More Sci fi and less Axis please!

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Geeze if GW does Steel Legion can we make them like, 20% less Nazi?

More Sci fi and less Axis please!

Aside from the Fallschirmjaeger-esque helmet and Y-strap webbing, there's not much about them that's particularly Axis-ey. The yellow coat, cavalry boots, leather gloves, hazmat goggles, and heavy emphasis on BMP-esque Chimeras aren't particularly Nazi-ish. Even the underfolding carbines are more Soviet AKS in style than German MP40.