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 Marmatag wrote:
I think marines players will be happy. I assume tactical players also like terminators? If i share details i lose friends, and access to this kind of info.

Funny enough i think overall Eldar players will be happy too.

I don't know about release date but the book is printed and has a cover.

I am willing to bet its going to start getting teased after BSF is released. Regardless, even the little tease you gave us brings hope for my BT army.

I'll be picking up a PDF copy once I see it available for my tablet.

If they make tac marines good or even servicable, that will be a feat not done since 3rd.

Martel732 wrote:
If they make tac marines good or even servicable, that will be a feat not done since 3rd.

They should just release an “primaris tactical sprue” that consists of special and heavy weapons available to tac marines, for intercessors, and then squat tac marines. They’d be basically usable at that point as “counts as”.

Every once in a while I feel like I need to step back and remind myself how difficult a job GW actually has balancing things. Consider the Stalker and the Whirlwind for a moment; both are Rhino chassis with what are basically Autocannons, with the following differences:

The Stalker is T8 to the Whirlwind's T7.
The Stalker has the full AA wording.
The Whirlwind has Heavy 2d3 instead of Heavy 6, but with twice the range and Indirect Fire.

That's pretty damn similar when you think about it, and they're only 5 points apart. I sure as spit couldn't say if that's the right spread for the number of times I've fielded them, and it's tough because they're both kind of specialized and no matter which one you take in a tac list you're going to run into opponents that make you really wish you'd brought the other one.

Any leaks on IG?
Being AM player I honestly don't mind guardsman being 5ppm but I am more curious about vehicles (e.g. leman russ having only two viable variants, unplayable deathstrike) and other not necessarily fun options like mortar squad for 33 pts

The Newman wrote:
Every once in a while I feel like I need to step back and remind myself how difficult a job GW actually has balancing things. Consider the Stalker and the Whirlwind for a moment; both are Rhino chassis with what are basically Autocannons, with the following differences:

The Stalker is T8 to the Whirlwind's T7.
The Stalker has the full AA wording.
The Whirlwind has Heavy 2d3 instead of Heavy 6, but with twice the range and Indirect Fire.

That's pretty damn similar when you think about it, and they're only 5 points apart. I sure as spit couldn't say if that's the right spread for the number of times I've fielded them.

Stalkers are WAY better. 48" range is plenty, and 6 consistent shots with +1 to hit lots of strong stuff in the meta is gold. Whirlwind needs 3D3 and 3D6 shots to be remotely usable.

Look at how WraithLords have compared to Dreadnaughts.

Or Striking Scorpions have compared to Assault Marines.

Across the last several editions, those things have been roughly comparable most of the time.

GW does a lot of good work on balance. They just also do some boneheaded stuff, too.

Gnollu wrote:
Any leaks on IG?
Being AM player I honestly don't mind guardsman being 5ppm but I am more curious about vehicles (e.g. leman russ having only two viable variants, unplayable deathstrike) and other not necessarily fun options like mortar squad for 33 pts

Increasing basic Guardsmen to 5ppm would cause a domino effect on the rest of the game, as Guardsmen are used as the base for all other infantry price calculations.

Pretty easy when some units never change while others get fancy new updates.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PuppetSoul wrote:

Gnollu wrote:
Any leaks on IG?
Being AM player I honestly don't mind guardsman being 5ppm but I am more curious about vehicles (e.g. leman russ having only two viable variants, unplayable deathstrike) and other not necessarily fun options like mortar squad for 33 pts

Increasing basic Guardsmen to 5ppm would cause a domino effect on the rest of the game, as Guardsmen are used as the base for all other infantry price calculations.

That's patently false.

PuppetSoul wrote:

Gnollu wrote:
Any leaks on IG?
Being AM player I honestly don't mind guardsman being 5ppm but I am more curious about vehicles (e.g. leman russ having only two viable variants, unplayable deathstrike) and other not necessarily fun options like mortar squad for 33 pts

Increasing basic Guardsmen to 5ppm would cause a domino effect on the rest of the game, as Guardsmen are used as the base for all other infantry price calculations.

Any receipts for that?

PuppetSoul wrote:

Gnollu wrote:
Any leaks on IG?
Being AM player I honestly don't mind guardsman being 5ppm but I am more curious about vehicles (e.g. leman russ having only two viable variants, unplayable deathstrike) and other not necessarily fun options like mortar squad for 33 pts

Increasing basic Guardsmen to 5ppm would cause a domino effect on the rest of the game, as Guardsmen are used as the base for all other infantry price calculations.

I've alsway been told that Marines are the baseline unit in the game.

I don't think there is a baseline. Hence, the chaos with infantry.

PuppetSoul wrote:

Gnollu wrote:
Any leaks on IG?
Being AM player I honestly don't mind guardsman being 5ppm but I am more curious about vehicles (e.g. leman russ having only two viable variants, unplayable deathstrike) and other not necessarily fun options like mortar squad for 33 pts

Increasing basic Guardsmen to 5ppm would cause a domino effect on the rest of the game, as Guardsmen are used as the base for all other infantry price calculations.

Lol no they aren’t, and no it wouldn’t.

I doubt Space Marine players will be happy. Not because I don't doubt GW will cave to the demands of it's largest cash cows, but because the expectatoins they've set up for themselves will make anything short of total power armor domination as "not going far enough".

I am choosing to believe in Marmatag because he said Terminators and it got me all excited.

Martel732 wrote:

The Newman wrote:
Every once in a while I feel like I need to step back and remind myself how difficult a job GW actually has balancing things. Consider the Stalker and the Whirlwind for a moment; both are Rhino chassis with what are basically Autocannons, with the following differences:

The Stalker is T8 to the Whirlwind's T7.
The Stalker has the full AA wording.
The Whirlwind has Heavy 2d3 instead of Heavy 6, but with twice the range and Indirect Fire.

That's pretty damn similar when you think about it, and they're only 5 points apart. I sure as spit couldn't say if that's the right spread for the number of times I've fielded them.

Stalkers are WAY better. 48" range is plenty, and 6 consistent shots with +1 to hit lots of strong stuff in the meta is gold. Whirlwind needs 3D3 and 3D6 shots to be remotely usable.

That being true depends a lot on how much and what type of terrain your local club is using. It also sort of underscores my point about them both being situational that you think one is clearly better than the other and I think it's a close call; I see a lot of IG, IK, DG, and AdMech lists where the Stalker's AA rules are a straight up penalty.

meleti wrote:
I'm guessing that Eldar Wraithknights will return to reasonable points values. That will help them sell the Battleforce as well.

Honestly? Good, it has sat on the naughty step long enough now.

Actually a pretty model but I have only seen one on the table in all of 8th and i almost had to apologise to the guy for what happened next...

Lemondish wrote:
I am choosing to believe in Marmatag because he said Terminators and it got me all excited.

Terminators are a pretty big talking point so he could still be trolling. But still, I wanna believe. Terminators were one of the main reasons I started with marines

 fraser1191 wrote:

Lemondish wrote:
I am choosing to believe in Marmatag because he said Terminators and it got me all excited.

Terminators are a pretty big talking point so he could still be trolling. But still, I wanna believe. Terminators were one of the main reasons I started with marines

Fingers crossed for Centurions. I want my Termies to be good, but not nearly as much as I want my Centurions to not be stupidly over-costed.

The Newman wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:

Lemondish wrote:
I am choosing to believe in Marmatag because he said Terminators and it got me all excited.

Terminators are a pretty big talking point so he could still be trolling. But still, I wanna believe. Terminators were one of the main reasons I started with marines

Fingers crossed for Centurions. I want my Termies to be good, but not nearly as much as I want my Centurions to not be stupidly over-costed.

I don't even know what centurians can take its been so long

The Newman wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:

Lemondish wrote:
I am choosing to believe in Marmatag because he said Terminators and it got me all excited.

Terminators are a pretty big talking point so he could still be trolling. But still, I wanna believe. Terminators were one of the main reasons I started with marines

Fingers crossed for Centurions. I want my Termies to be good, but not nearly as much as I want my Centurions to not be stupidly over-costed.

Seconded! 330 for the cheapest possible squad of Centurion Devastators is crazy. (6 Heavy Bolters and 3 Hurricane Bolters). A squad of Custodes Jetbikes is only 270. Centurions cost about as much as shooty Leviathan Dreadnoughts (Imperium or Chaos).

Lemondish wrote:
I am choosing to believe in Marmatag because he said Terminators and it got me all excited.

Indeed. If this turns out to be true, I'll finally be able to dust off my Deathwing army

Audustum wrote:

The Newman wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:

Lemondish wrote:
I am choosing to believe in Marmatag because he said Terminators and it got me all excited.

Terminators are a pretty big talking point so he could still be trolling. But still, I wanna believe. Terminators were one of the main reasons I started with marines

Fingers crossed for Centurions. I want my Termies to be good, but not nearly as much as I want my Centurions to not be stupidly over-costed.

Seconded! 330 for the cheapest possible squad of Centurion Devastators is crazy. (6 Heavy Bolters and 3 Hurricane Bolters). A squad of Custodes Jetbikes is only 270. Centurions cost about as much as shooty Leviathan Dreadnoughts (Imperium or Chaos).

A single Centurion with Lascannons and the Centurion Missile Launcher costs ten points more than a regular Dreadnaught with the Twin Lascannon and Missile Launcher. That's insane.

 Marmatag wrote:
I think marines players will be happy. I assume tactical players also like terminators? If i share details i lose friends, and access to this kind of info.

Funny enough i think overall Eldar players will be happy too.

I don't know about release date but the book is printed and has a cover.

How about a non-specific share?

Given what you know about the other points adjustments, where do the adjustment in Codex Orks compared to the Index fall between 10 (The Oracle at Delphi) and 1 (Monkeys at a Typewriter)?

Do you think CA 2018 will be available for preorder on black friday?

Also let's face it marines are generalist, and that's why they are awful right now. When you can take specialist of every conceivable variety from almost a dozen codexes a generalist just doesn't have any place. Until you limit soup, you could drop marines to 10ppm and people would still choose guardsmen for screens and CP because they are cheaper.

The current meta is all about having your cake and eating it to. You don't make hard choices anymore, you just grab the shiny bits from whatever the most exploitable codexes are currently, and poof you have a ticket to the winners table. Yesterday it was supreme smash, a knight or few, and some guard, tomorrow who knows. Meanwhile GW is playing balance whack a mole, trying to fix individual units when the whole ally system makes their work as relevant as Sisyphus pushing a boulder up a hill.

we have had the current rules for over a year, and peoples arguments that allies are fluffy are starting to ring as hollow as people who said formations in 7th ed were fluffy. The silver lining is that since marines are taking the brunt of the pain GW might actually do something about it.

More than anything I want Baal Predators and vanilla Predators fixed. I love marine tanks but they are just flaming garbage dumps. Marines in general aren’t worth their points though and that extends to the dreaded death company.

I also dislike that some auras are units within 6” and others are models within 6”. Models within 6” for Heirs of Azkaellon basically makes that rule a nonfactor for Sanguinary Guard, which even at 35 points are underwhelming (which tells you everything you need to know about every version of terminators in the game).

Lemondish wrote:

PuppetSoul wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:

IG guardsmen point increase

Not going to happen, as their cost is the foundation cost for every other infantry unit, and there is nothing about the unit that warrants a cost increase besides people who don't bring anti-horde crying that "existing is worth more than 4 points".

The math is clear - they should be 6 ppm. No point hiding from it.

5ppm puts them mathematically in the same boat as fire warriors in terms of durability per point and damage output per point. 6ppm is overkill with kabalites, GSC neophytes, and skitarii rangers being priced as they are.

Putting IS at 6ppm also means you need to reprice veterans, which currently are currently gak and would make them even worse. No, 5ppm is a good spot, anything more and you would need to overhaul the entire faction.

w1zard wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

PuppetSoul wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:

IG guardsmen point increase

Not going to happen, as their cost is the foundation cost for every other infantry unit, and there is nothing about the unit that warrants a cost increase besides people who don't bring anti-horde crying that "existing is worth more than 4 points".

The math is clear - they should be 6 ppm. No point hiding from it.

5ppm puts them mathematically in the same boat as fire warriors in terms of durability per point and damage output per point. 6ppm is overkill with kabalites, GSC neophytes, and skitarii rangers being priced as they are.

Putting IS at 6ppm also means you need to reprice veterans, which currently are currently gak and would make them even worse. No, 5ppm is a good spot, anything more and you would need to overhaul the entire faction.

Okay then. 5 ppm.

And Commanders jump to 50.

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
I doubt Space Marine players will be happy. Not because I don't doubt GW will cave to the demands of it's largest cash cows, but because the expectatoins they've set up for themselves will make anything short of total power armor domination as "not going far enough".

If that's the narrative that makes you feel better... I've not once called for domination. In fact, marines are so far from that it would take a colossal mess up to make it happen.

Martel732 wrote:

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
I doubt Space Marine players will be happy. Not because I don't doubt GW will cave to the demands of it's largest cash cows, but because the expectatoins they've set up for themselves will make anything short of total power armor domination as "not going far enough".

If that's the narrative that makes you feel better... I've not once called for domination. In fact, marines are so far from that it would take a colossal mess up to make it happen.

There aren't many people that want an auto win army though. Actually sounds like a decent poll to me