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To go back to the Fortean stuff (sorry. I know Dobbin is departed, but one last visit).
The monthly magazine, Fortean Times, makes for an often fascinating read.
On the subject of belief and the supernatural, there was one article which attempted to explain it. Essentially, the thinking there (which I believe is cribbed from a published paper?) is it can be an evolutionary advantage.
Spooky stuff happens, we go into fight or flight mode. If we're walking in a Wood, and see something that looks like it might be a bear, those who assumed it was and legged it survived - those that went to investigate, maybe not so much, because sometimes it was indeed a bear.
As a species, our minds are very good at filling in the blanks, and often with worst case scenarios. So it's all tied in. Who knows what stimulus it is that causes us to 'see' ghosts, or experience the paranormal.
Then there are other branches of the supernatural, including Cyptozoology. There, many former Cryptids (including Gorillas) are now know to definitely exist. The science there is to examine the claims. Bigfoot or Yeti hairs are typically Bear fur - albeit from unusual specimens. It's now thought that Cyclops' were based on misinterpretation of Mammoth skulls.
Dive in. It's a pretty interesting area. And remember. It's not trying to prove anything.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
A Fortean is sceptical. But is open to being proven wrong - or at least exhausting all possible rational explanations.
The main trouble with the paranormal are those trying to make a buck out of. There's a special level of contempt I hold for 'spirit mediums' and other 'psychics'.
I mean, if telepathy is possible, surely those able would be committed in asylums, unable to shut out all those voices? If that ropey thinking was right, we'd have no way to tell, because those blessed/cursed would be utterly hatstand.
Well, sure, you have to remain open to being proven wrong. That doesn't mean you should, by default, treat all claims with the same level of skepticism. Reiki, flat earth, hollow earth, psychics, ghosties and ghoulies and goblins etc etc don't really deserve to be entertained at all at this point, it really is safe to dismiss the "evidence" presented out of hand, because it's always the same "evidence" that's been presented and debunked a thousand times before. In the same way that after arguing with the same twitter troll for the hundredth time, it's probably safe to conclude they're arguing in bad faith and just dismiss anything they say from that point on.
The day someone making claims about the paranormal presents an actual independently repeatable controlled experiment that demonstrates the things they're discussing could even potentially exist is the day I'll start bothering to treat the subject with anything other than disinterest or a bit of light derisive mocking. As it stands they can't even produce a hypothetical construct that stands up to basic logic.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
I’ve had sleep paralysis a few times. Only had the hallucinations once though, and it was more formless than horrifying. And I haven’t had paralysis in many years. But there’s no question in my mind that it explains many paranormal stories.
I don’t believe that ghosts exist. I’m open to being proven wrong though. I’d love to visit a haunted house and test it. I’m not going to be a jagoff and act as though I understand the full nature of the universe. *shrug*
Power Elephant wrote: Fascinating subject. I would like to ask of you guys that belive in the paranormal, or at least in the plausibility of it: Where does that belif come from? I'm assuming that most of you are not religious or part of a religion that belives in ghosts, so I am curious as to why you give credence to the possibility of ghosts.
You see, in my mind, belif in the paranormal is not something you can belive on its own. There has to be a coresponding set of belifs with it.
Why would I have to be religious? Which religion would be required anyway, as there are so many. Maybe these things are naturally occurring. Especially regarding events where the haunting is a play back of a previous event, as opposed to an intelligent possession.
As far as all the reporting sightings and hoaxes, I imagine that hauntings do occur, they are probably more common than one might think, although most go unnoticed. And then there are a whole bunch of others who aren't sure of what they might see and are quick to call it a ghost. I don't doubt some events are as they are described, and many others are not. Its the same with UFOs (using this loosely here as a craft piloted by aliens). I don't doubt that not only have we been visited before, but probably at various times in mankind's history, but the vast majority of what is reported as a UFO are influenced by the idea of them and conclude its the same. The same could be with most hauntings.
I do believe all of the strange phenomena typically has its origins in some actual event. It may have been misunderstood or incorrectly concluded, but something happened. And then there was a whole bunch of false copycats that followed. While someone mentioned above, the sheer numbers of reported events does carry some weight, even if most of it is garbage. Anything as small as .01% being true would mean something was capable of happening. Is there a lot to filter through? Sure, but because you can write off one instance doesn't mean that the same logic can be applied to all of the others. We simply do no know, nor can prove in each case what exactly occurred, even scientifically. Well, especially scientifically as science needs a controlled experiment to prove it one way or another.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: To go back to the Fortean stuff (sorry. I know Dobbin is departed, but one last visit).
The monthly magazine, Fortean Times, makes for an often fascinating read.
On the subject of belief and the supernatural, there was one article which attempted to explain it. Essentially, the thinking there (which I believe is cribbed from a published paper?) is it can be an evolutionary advantage.
Bloch 2008, probably? It's the usual 'evolutionary bonus' one given to undergrads as an intro to belief in anthropology/archaeology classes.
The game of Yahtzee had become a game of whits. The forest crone had managed to score every category in the upper section in the order they were listed on the playsheet, while I scrambled to muster what I could. As the final rounds neared I estimated to be down by 110 points with two turns left. The Yahtzee gods smiled at me as the old hag finally came up with nothing of any value, and settled on entering in some low value into the chance box.
I picked up the dice and rolled; egad! Five 6s! Yahztee! I added the 50 points to my score sheet. If I could just get another Yahtzee in the final round, I could defeat this old witch and perhaps get some sleep before returning home in the morning. She looked me in the eye and picked up the tumbler, shaking it briefly, and casting the dice.
Nothing!
She picked up a few of the dice and rolled again.
Nothing again! And she let out a curse.
She picked up all of the dice this time, gave me an evil look that I will not soon forget, and cast the dice for one final time...
Nothing!
She slammed the tumbler on the table. Her chance to put the game away had failed. Now if I could just score another Yahtzee, no matter how poor the odds where, I would get 100 bonus points and win the game.
I added the dice to the tumbler, exchanged an intense stare with the witch as I rattled the dice, and just as I rolled...
Earthquake!
There was a goddamn earthquake! Followed by lightning and a hail storm, then lava came out of the ground around the cabin! I said, "Enough of this gak, yo, I be outta here!" and took off running for home. Along the way I encountered my dog, and together we finished the last mile or so together.
Once home, I encountered my family who had been talking to the local sheriff about my disappearance. I told them all that had occurred, from the strange woman to the beast of the forest, and my mom leaned forward and said, "Well, that will teach you to go off into the woods alone!" And everyone laughed like they did at the end of the Super Friends cartoon.
The End
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/31 14:21:25
2018/10/31 18:50:51
Subject: Re:Anyone every experience any hauntings?
At last we acknowledge that this thread was an exercise in creative writing rather than a serious discussion of real things.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Because, as the introduction of a book of ghost stories I had as a kid points out, if only one of the stories is true it proves the existence of ghosts.
Ghost stories are great fun. But that is all they are, stories. The burden of proof rests on those claiming ghosts exist. Show me legitimate evidence for ghosts. Real life physical evidence. Not a blurry photo or a "whisper" from a video. Get a good picture. Hold a recorded conversation. Do something.
Dreadwinter wrote: Ghost stories are great fun. But that is all they are, stories. The burden of proof rests on those claiming ghosts exist. Show me legitimate evidence for ghosts. Real life physical evidence. Not a blurry photo or a "whisper" from a video. Get a good picture. Hold a recorded conversation. Do something.
Photos and videos can be faked and therefor will always be called not good enough for some.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/31 22:04:16
I do not think ghosts or UFOs or monsters are real..... but I have more fun suspending my disbelief for a bit and indulging. This does not make my faith in science weaker, but it does make my imagination and creativity stronger.
Now can we just have a fething thread where we tell fun spook stories and not serious it to death? If you don't want to play in the pool.....
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Dreadwinter wrote: Ghost stories are great fun. But that is all they are, stories. The burden of proof rests on those claiming ghosts exist. Show me legitimate evidence for ghosts. Real life physical evidence. Not a blurry photo or a "whisper" from a video. Get a good picture. Hold a recorded conversation. Do something.
Photos and videos can be faked and therefor will always be called not good enough for some.
We’re getting so good at it that there’s concern video could lose court admissibility. Some of the technology coming down the pipe for taking voice and video is so advanced that it’s difficult for expert analysts to tell them apart from the real thing.
Easy E wrote: Now can we just have a fething thread where we tell fun spook stories and not serious it to death? If you don't want to play in the pool.....
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Easy E wrote: I do not think ghosts or UFOs or monsters are real..... but I have more fun suspending my disbelief for a bit and indulging. This does not make my faith in science weaker, but it does make my imagination and creativity stronger.
Now can we just have a fething thread where we tell fun spook stories and not serious it to death? If you don't want to play in the pool.....
But that makes no sense. Fiction is fiction, I like supernatural fiction, I have no trouble reading it or imagining it. "Hauntings" and other paranormal stuff are people making claims that real things exist and events actually happen, arguing you should suspend disbelief and "indulge" that is like arguing you should suspend disbelief and indulge Creationism, or the various "inside job/false flag" conspiracy theories, or Geocentrism. You're "indulging" a belief that a lot of people hold in utter and complete seriousness, and by so doing reinforcing that belief, which isn't a good thing given people prone to one strand of this sort of nonsense also often tend to be prone to others, even dangerous ones like anti-vax and other topical but no longer discussable here things.
Paranormal stuff is harmless so long as everyone's "in on the joke", but many aren't, many genuinely believe it, and plenty of them won't be able to tell that you're only "indulging" the subject ironically.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
I think after three pages of people jumping on it; anyone on the fence will be dissuaded by now, and anyone not isn't going to be. Let the ghost stories roll!
ValentineGames wrote: Nope. No such things as 'paranormal activities'
Ghosts. Ghouls. Daemons. Angels etc etc blah blah simply do not exist.
Positive claim of non-existence puts the burden of proof on you. Far safer to say "there is no evidence for their existence".
“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.”
I would like to share another memory I have that I seemed to supress over the years due to the horrific nature of the experience. It was 2003, and I was driving through the backroads of Georgia making my way to the Smokey Mountains, when suddenly my car began to show signs of mechanical issues. At that moment the road I was driving on forked, and at this point, foolishly driving without a map, I was unsure which direction I should take. Right at the end of the road was a fruit stand, and I could see what appeared to be an old southern farmer smoking a pipe behind the stand. As it was getting late in the day, and I would need both a motel and a service station to look at my car, I pulled into the fruit stand to ask for directions.
"That car is in need of service." the old man said as I exited the car.
"Yes, I was hoping you could provide me with directions to a suitable place to take it, with nearby lodgings." I replied.
"Well there is such a place, quite nearby actually, but I am not quite sure you would want to head in that direction this late in the evening. You see, the service station will be closed by the time you get there, as the feller who owns it, Angus, closes early, and you would have to stay overnight in the motel next door, which some say is haunted."
I did my best to hide my smile at the notion of a haunted motel, but as the location seemed to ideal considering my situation, so I asked for directions and was then on my way, but not before talking the old man down from $1.50 for a half a dozen peaches to a $1.10.
I followed the old man's directions and soon came to a small town, or village you might call it, containing nothing but a post office, gas/service station, and the motel. All but the motel were closed.
I exited the car and opened the door to the motel lobby, and what I saw next I will never be able to soon forget...
Well here are the things that happened to me that made me believe that there is a possibility of paranormal activity:
I grew up in a house that my mom and step-dad (I just call him dad) built shortly after they got married (this was the early 90's) so it certainly wasn't an old house or anything. Several things happened there, but the ones that stand out the most:
I was playing with Legos (Legos? Lego? whatever, I was playing with more than 1...) in my room. I was one of those kids that kept their Legos very organized, and had them separated by color in gallon size zip lock bags. I had emptied out one of the bags and the bag itself was in front of my pile/project about 2 feet away from me when it flew up, hovered like a slowly falling leaf for a moment about 3 feet off the ground, then fell back to the floor. The A/C in the home was vented from the ceiling across the room, and it was the way it sort of hovered there for a second before falling back down that really spooked me. This happened quite a bit in this house, things would be in different spots than where you left them, but this was the only time I actually saw anything move on its own.
Another time my step siblings and I were playing "Snoopy" (Hide and go seek in the dark) and I was hiding under the bed in my brothers room. I had a straight line of sight to my sisters room through the door across the hallway (diagonal) and I remember, in the very weak light coming through the shades on her window) watching a small figure that had a block-ish shaped head walk from behind her door and stand there looking out into the hallway. It didn't have much of a defined shape per say, like it was fuzzy around the edges, but I remember the head and its size.. I blinked a few times thinking it could have been my brother since he was about that size and my mind was trying to rationalize things, but then he came out of my room, which was next to my sisters, and into his room, where I was. I promptly freaked the F out, and got out from under the bed to turn on the light and when I looked up from crawling out to where that shape was standing it was gone. I still get shivers when I think about this today, and I can still remember it like it just happened last night. I freaked my parents out a bit too because how badly it freaked me out, although my dad was a bit pissed because I was scaring my siblings.
All kinds of crazy things happened in this house, and you could not be alone in the living room without getting a feeling of absolute dread. I talked with my mom much later in life about it, because after the thing in my sisters room I didn't tell them about stuff anymore, and she told me she experienced a lot of the same things. She always felt like someone was watching her from the skylights in the living room but she would basically be frozen to the couch when it happened (my experience with it to). Come to find out, after I got a piece of mail with a ladies name on it I didn't recognize, but had the same last name as a guy I knew from school, that his grandmother had lived on the property before my dad purchased it from her estate and she had died in a house fire that burned the house to the foundation. My dad had the foundation torn up before we moved into his trailer when my parents relationship got to that point. Related? I dunno, but the house was built directly over that foundation.
More recently, within the last 5 years, I stayed over at a buddies house after a party. I was the DD (I always am, I don't really drink hardly) so I was completely sober. I woke up at about 2 am and got up to go to the bathroom. To get to the bathroom you had to walk from the living room, where my wife and I were, past the kitchen, and down the hallway. Nothing really of note on the way there, but on the way back, every cabinet door and drawer in the kitchen was open (was only in the bathroom for 2 or 3 minutes). I experienced a WTF moment and woke my inebriated wife up to ask if she was looking for something in the kitchen, and obviously she wasn't. I then went and woke my buddy and his wife up and asked them the same and they told me that it happens all the time. Usually they just leave it and by the morning they are all closed again, or I could go close them.. I wasn't sleeping anymore so I just closed the doors and drawers and watched TV until it was time to wake the wife up again to leave. They moved out a few months later and had all kinds of crazy stories about things happening at that house, but that was the only thing I had the pleasure to experience.
Anyway, I don't claim to know any scientific stuff about this, but I do know what I experienced, and absolutely think the possibility of hauntings and paranormal activity is a thing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/02 18:09:32
So the next morning I met with Angus, the guy who owned the service station, and it turned out it was just bad gas in my tank, so he flushed it out, put some new gas in it, and off I went. No car problems after that.
Positive claim of non-existence puts the burden of proof on you. Far safer to say "there is no evidence for their existence".
Safer to be sure, but alternately I’d argue ghost hunters and paranormal investigators have done a fine and dandy job of proving non-existance such that I can safely assert it. If there was anything to find, some physical force or property outside the human mind anyway, one of the nuts would have found it by now but I suppose it’s possible the ghosts are all jus camera shy /sarcasm
On the other hand ghost stories hardly need to be true to be fun so...how bout those haunted castles? When I was in England as a wee ten year old I loved the haunted castle tours. Europe has way better ghost stories imo. Comes with history I think. The US it’s alsays some silly Indiain massacre or colonial tragedy.
*sigh* got really excited to read 4 pages of other people's experiences, and instead got a bunch of back and forth about the scientific plausibility of ghosts.
I've had a couple experiences, nothing too crazy. Full disclaimer here, I believe some people are more sensitive to this sort of thing than others. Like KTG17 in the first post, I haven't seen/felt much myself but I've been around others that have.
Anyway, when my girlfriend and I used to live with my mom, we would always notice strange gak happening in the house whenever she left town. This was something that happened frequently as my mom liked to spend her summers back home in Turkey, so my girlfriend and I wound up alone in the house for very extended periods of time. We would hear knocks at night, but from inside the house like someone was standing in the hallway and tapped the wall to my bedroom. There was a day we came home and I found the TV remote right on the floor in front of the TV, which was doubly odd because we always left the remote on the coffee table several feet away. One night we heard the sound of a plate spinning on the counter, as if someone tipped it and let go.
Probably the most unsettling occurrence at this house was after I finished a session of Skyrim, got up from my chair and crawled into bed with my lady - a few seconds after I had left the chair we both heard it move. Not just the squeak of the wheels, but like someone grabbed the back and wiggled it. One night while I was at work my girlfriend called me and was utterly terrified because she saw someone sitting on the arm of the sofa when she walked into the house. She stayed locked in our bedroom until I got home. Her description of her sounded a lot like my aunt, who my mom was very close to and had passed away recently when this happened. It also kinda made sense to me that if our poltergeist was her, it made sense that weird things would happen when she left town.
Before that particular house, I was living in a different apartment building and my mom and I were taking care of our brother's dog. He loved to sleep on the bed with me, and this one time I woke up in the middle of the night - very unusual for me, I almost always sleep the whole night through - and found my brother's dog sitting on the edge of my bed facing the window. His head was bobbing from left to right, as if someone was pacing the floor right next to where we were sleeping. I reached out and pet him but he just kept sitting there looking at whatever it was that had his attention.
My final story was what I consider the most... I hesitate to say 'extreme', but it was the only time I've actually felt something. When I was 19 my family moved into a house, my old man was very happy about this because he'd always wanted his own property and we always rented apartment buildings before this. It was a real rickety piece of gak house. It honestly looked as if it been built in the 50s and never renovated. It was so old that none of the power outlets in the house had the grounding hole for the plugs, so we couldn't plug in anything with a 3-prong adapter.
Anyway, my brother absolutely hated this house. He's always been more sensitive to supernatural stuff and the house gave him some seriously bad vibes. One night, as I was falling asleep, I heard what I thought was my mom praying from inside her bedroom. The house had insanely thin walls and I could always hear her saying her evening prayers before she went to sleep. After a few seconds I realized that I wasn't hearing her at all, something was actually whispering in my ear. As soon as I realized that, the whispering stopped, and then I felt something on top of me for the next few seconds. I didn't see anything, but I certainly felt it.
Don't know if that last one was sleep paralysis or not, I hadn't actually fallen asleep yet so I don't know if that's a thing that could have happened. I've thankfully never had to contend with anything like that since, and I was very glad when we moved out of that house a few months later.
Really hoping others share their experiences. Whether it's all in my head or not doesn't much matter to me, I'll concede that it could be my mind playing tricks on me though I'm quite skeptical of that myself.
gorgon wrote: I’ve had sleep paralysis a few times. Only had the hallucinations once though, and it was more formless than horrifying. And I haven’t had paralysis in many years. But there’s no question in my mind that it explains many paranormal stories.
I don’t believe that ghosts exist. I’m open to being proven wrong though. I’d love to visit a haunted house and test it. I’m not going to be a jagoff and act as though I understand the full nature of the universe. *shrug*
I also used to have sleep paralyses frequently when I was younger, always including hallucinations of a shadow being looming over me. I had the distinct feeling that it was a malevolent presence that meant to do me harm in some kind of ineffable way. Like you, I also haven't experienced sleep paralyses in quite some time. Without a doubt, the phenomenon accounts for myths, legends, and stories throughout human history.
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