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 Luciferian wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
I’ve had sleep paralysis a few times. Only had the hallucinations once though, and it was more formless than horrifying. And I haven’t had paralysis in many years. But there’s no question in my mind that it explains many paranormal stories.

I don’t believe that ghosts exist. I’m open to being proven wrong though. I’d love to visit a haunted house and test it. I’m not going to be a jagoff and act as though I understand the full nature of the universe. *shrug*

I also used to have sleep paralyses frequently when I was younger, always including hallucinations of a shadow being looming over me. I had the distinct feeling that it was a malevolent presence that meant to do me harm in some kind of ineffable way. Like you, I also haven't experienced sleep paralyses in quite some time. Without a doubt, the phenomenon accounts for myths, legends, and stories throughout human history.

It happens. Most people go through it at least once. Most times it isnt a big deal but it wouldnt hurt to bring up. If you are an adult and you start having these regularly I would seek medical help immediately. I believe it can be a sign of narcolepsy or other serious issues. I'm nit saying you are at risk, just throwing out info in case somebody is in this boat.

Also, again not directed at you, can we stop associating the supernatural with sleep paralysis. It is very dangerous to do so because some poor person could just think they are haunted but instead They have a serious medical condition.

This is why people are fighting this thread so hard. Things like this are explainable and in some cases the explanations are the people going through them are in need of serious medical assistance. Coming out and saying "but they COULD be real" helps absolutely no one and in fact further complicates the lives of those who need help.

Ghosts are not real. If you like a good ghost story that is one thing, so do I, but a thread about personal experiences with ghosts is absurd at best and at its worst it can be detrimental to the health of others.

TL;DR Sleep Paralysis can be a very serious thing and associating it with ghosts and other imaginary things is detrimental to the people suffering.

Jacksmiles wrote:

I'm not sure why you would think that was a ghost anyway. People see things out of the corner of their eyes all the time, I've never considered it to be a supernatural happening, or used it as a ghost story anecdote.

Part of the reason those sort of things get turned into ghost stories is that those things in the corner of the eye (and sometimes right in the front of the eye) are often interpreted by the brain as having a human or human-ish shape, because our brains try to impose familiar patterns on the unfamiliar.

I had a friend in high school who lived in one of those houses where pictures on the walls would go askew in the night, and where you could sit downstairs and hear what sounded an awful lot like people walking around upstairs from time to time, but always scoffed at the idea that it was haunted, as opposed to just being a 60 year old timber house... Walking home in the dark from another friend's house after a movie or gaming session one weekend, I've looked over at the house as I walked past - the front was quite well lit by a streetlight, so could see the house clearly, and also saw a small, blonde girl sitting at the bottom of the front steps. Brain said 'Yup, that's just [friend's little sister]', my eyes moved on, and I kept walking, before my brain caught up with the fact that a 6-year-old had no business being out front of her house at four in the morning. Looked back - and there was nobody there.

I've always assumed that it was just a trick of the light, but it freaked me out no end at the time.

 Dreadwinter wrote:

It happens. Most people go through it at least once. Most times it isnt a big deal but it wouldnt hurt to bring up. If you are an adult and you start having these regularly I would seek medical help immediately. I believe it can be a sign of narcolepsy or other serious issues. I'm nit saying you are at risk, just throwing out info in case somebody is in this boat.

Also, again not directed at you, can we stop associating the supernatural with sleep paralysis. It is very dangerous to do so because some poor person could just think they are haunted but instead They have a serious medical condition.

This is why people are fighting this thread so hard. Things like this are explainable and in some cases the explanations are the people going through them are in need of serious medical assistance. Coming out and saying "but they COULD be real" helps absolutely no one and in fact further complicates the lives of those who need help.

Ghosts are not real. If you like a good ghost story that is one thing, so do I, but a thread about personal experiences with ghosts is absurd at best and at its worst it can be detrimental to the health of others.

TL;DR Sleep Paralysis can be a very serious thing and associating it with ghosts and other imaginary things is detrimental to the people suffering.

In my case, the imagery of spiritual or supernatural beings was an inextricable part of my sleep paralyses. When I was in the throes of it, I knew that there was a supernatural being in my room and that I was the focus of its unwavering attention. Once the effect wore off it was clear that I had been hallucinating, and fortunately I knew about sleep paralyses as a phenomenon fairly early on so I had a reasonable explanation. However, sleep paralyses is associated with the supernatural for a very good reason, and that is because many people who experience it also experience what they feel is an archetypal supernatural presence.

I am certainly not one to put my belief in the supernatural, but still things like sleep paralyses and similar experiences are interesting in terms of psychology and symbolism. There is something primordial there which is common to nearly everyone, laying under the surface of the conscious mind, and the imagery and emotions it evokes are extremely consistent and predictable, even across individual and cultural barriers. There's a reason people find ideas about the supernatural so powerful and relatable, and why stories and theories about supernatural phenomena persist even in today's age of relative enlightenment.

I do, however, agree that it's foolish to assume the existence of the supernatural in a literal sense, especially when it impacts one's own well-being.

Oh, I have had two in my life or at least, I believe that is what they were. Both times were honestly terrifying experiences for me. During the event and probably for a good few days afterwards I was convinced that the room it occurred in had something going on in it. But after a few days that passed, I went back to the room to sleep and it never occurred again in there.

I am also not entirely sure mine was completely sleep paralysis*. Now that I have moved on from it though I like to talk about it and tell the story.

I was staying at my grandparents at the time. I believe in High School. Sleeping in my room on my back with just a sheet over me. Slowly it started to feel like somebody was crawling up my body. It felt like the sheet was pulled tight around my legs as a hand was placed and then another was placed, pulling the sheet tighter and tighter against me. I specifically remember hearing myself talking in my sleep as well, which is very rare of me according to others. I was telling myself to wake up, it was a dream. I just kept repeating it and repeating it until the sheet felt like it was pushing down on my chest. Then I suddenly sat up and I honestly just started swinging as soon as I was able to move again. Scared the absolute gak out of my grandparents because I was also apparently yelling some bloodcurdling yell when I came out.

Looking back on it. The adrenaline junkie in me thinks it was a huge rush and would be interested in that sort of thing again. The sane person in me never wants to experience fear at that level again.

But no supernatural here! Just a little messed up brain chemistry. I really did want to give the Winchesters a call though. :(

*To clarify, this doesn't mean I suspect any supernatural shenanigans in any way. I just think maybe there might have been another medical explanation I am unaware of.

My experiences were very similar. Once, I felt my sheets being pulled slowly off me toward the foot of the bed in a very real, physical sense. When I snapped out of it they hadn't moved at all. I would also try to speak or yell ineffectual threats but couldn't move or vocalize.

I think the scariest part of the experience was that I knew I was awake and aware. I could see my room, I could see the shadow being, but I was completely paralyzed (duh). I knew I wasn't dreaming or sleeping because every time it happened I would wake up and gain awareness instantaneously, then the paralyses would last up to a couple of minutes until it faded away and the experience was over.

I know what you mean about the rush of it; I have been in some hairy situations in waking life but I don't remember ever being as scared as I was during sleep paralyses.

See, I couldn't see anything. I am not really sure if it would have been better or worse if I could have honestly. I could see the sheet moving though. Or at least I thought I saw the sheet moving. It was a very odd angle because of how I was laying in bed. I was pretty much looking down by body with my eyes barely cracked and my head was not tilted to get a great view.

But that rush! I have been in blue codes doing CPR, I have ridden some of the worlds biggest roller coasters, I have swam in a phosphorescent bay at night and my foot was touched by something swimming around in the bay I nearly walked on water getting back to the boat. Never have I had a rush like that first time. After that, I very well believe that a dream can scare you enough to have a heart attack, even kill you.

Reflecting on it, this might be why I dislike fear as a way to access adrenaline in the body.....

 insaniak wrote:

Jacksmiles wrote:

I'm not sure why you would think that was a ghost anyway. People see things out of the corner of their eyes all the time, I've never considered it to be a supernatural happening, or used it as a ghost story anecdote.

Part of the reason those sort of things get turned into ghost stories is that those things in the corner of the eye (and sometimes right in the front of the eye) are often interpreted by the brain as having a human or human-ish shape, because our brains try to impose familiar patterns on the unfamiliar.

I had a friend in high school who lived in one of those houses where pictures on the walls would go askew in the night, and where you could sit downstairs and hear what sounded an awful lot like people walking around upstairs from time to time, but always scoffed at the idea that it was haunted, as opposed to just being a 60 year old timber house... Walking home in the dark from another friend's house after a movie or gaming session one weekend, I've looked over at the house as I walked past - the front was quite well lit by a streetlight, so could see the house clearly, and also saw a small, blonde girl sitting at the bottom of the front steps. Brain said 'Yup, that's just [friend's little sister]', my eyes moved on, and I kept walking, before my brain caught up with the fact that a 6-year-old had no business being out front of her house at four in the morning. Looked back - and there was nobody there.

I've always assumed that it was just a trick of the light, but it freaked me out no end at the time.

I used to have this phenomenon happen a lot to me as a child with an overactive imagination. Specifically happening at my grandparents house. They had a very open floor layout with a partition wall blocking off the kitchen from the front room. Then at the end the living room was on one side and the upstairs/sub-basement the other. I saw things walking by that partition wall daily almost. Just out of the corner of my eyes. Never said anything as a kid. Just shrugged it off or assumed I just saw something. Then in high school I was sick a day and they were talking about ghost stories in the english class. A girl told a story almost identical to my own that day. So I come back the next day and the teacher asks if I would like to share one since I didn't get to before. So I told my story. The teacher was looking at me a little annoyed. The girl though, freaking out. For a second I think she thought maybe I was causing it or something but she was pale. The teacher noticed, realized maybe I hadn't just stolen the story. Started the damage control. Luckily good teacher did a little digging on some of the stories and found some explanations she planned on telling us that day. That girl was so relieved to hear it was just a trick of the mind.

On the second thing, it could have just been a kid who bolted once they saw an adult outside. Kids do odd things and parents can't keep track of them at night. I can tell you I definitely snuck outside sometimes as a kid while the adults were sleeping. Sometimes you just need air, a dog to pet, or your grandpa was raised in the pits of hell and keeps the wood stove going so the house is sitting at a cool 90 degrees in May. But yeah, I can see where it would definitely freak somebody out. It is still odd.

I'll grant you sleep paralysis accounts for accounts where people are sleeping/nearly sleeping.

I was wide awake for mine. And while I'll grant you it's probably much more likely my mind tricked me into hearing footsteps behind me on that gravel beach... prove it.

Agreed. If you can offer an explanation where my night light example has a plausible scientific explanation, I'm all ears.

 Dreadwinter wrote:
It happens. Most people go through it at least once.

I HAVEN'T GONE THROUGH THIS! I HAVEN'T GONE THROUGH gak! AND I AM THE ONE THAT WANTS IT THE MOST! Everyone's got cool experiences than I do! Oh wait, except for my last two stories those were 100% real.

This actually reminds me of another story I seem to have suppressed over the years. This one actually involves a little bit of reincarnation, if you would accept that is possible.

It was 1921, the early years of Prohibition. I spent much of my free time in a little speakeasy a little ways from my apartment in Manhattan. There was a particular young woman there who I was trying to get to know, but was routinely brushed off with every advance I would make. She was always there, and from time to time would engage in a conversation with a wealthy looking man, and often after leaving together, these men would never return. She didn't appear to work, yet was always able to pay her tab in full. She also only drank the most expensive drinks of the day, even though much of the finest bootlegged alcohol tasted like gasoline. I couldn't get her out of my head. There was just something about her and I had to have her.

One night it was unusually slow at the bar and we made eye contact, which then turned into a second look from her, and then a smile as if she had never seen me before, even though we had seen and briefly talked to each other on dozens of separate occasions previously! I decided to make my move and slid down the bar and asked if I could buy her a drink. This time she said 'sure'.

Grey Goose and Red Bull! $25 drink of course she did that. They always do that.

Anyway, we engaged in light chit chat and in the middle of telling her a little about me, she interrupted me and asked if I wanted to go back to her place, which I responded with a yes and still managed to not fall out of my chair. I was finally going to score tonight, and I threw back my drink, slammed money for the tab on the bar, and away we went.

She said her place was nearby, just through these nearby warehouses, where she owned a loft, and suggested we walk. It was 2am, and the city was quiet. As we moved through the warehouse district I noticed many of the street lights were not functioning, and the moon cast eerie shadows from the buildings. I grew a little uneasy but noticed how confident she walked, as if none of this bothered her. I assumed she trusted my company, and that I would protect her if need be.

But how wrong I was. At first the signs that something was out of place was the look in her eye as she watched me out of the corner of her eye. Like she was waiting for something. Waiting for the right time.

And then... it happened.

 Luciferian wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
I’ve had sleep paralysis a few times. Only had the hallucinations once though, and it was more formless than horrifying. And I haven’t had paralysis in many years. But there’s no question in my mind that it explains many paranormal stories.

I don’t believe that ghosts exist. I’m open to being proven wrong though. I’d love to visit a haunted house and test it. I’m not going to be a jagoff and act as though I understand the full nature of the universe. *shrug*

I also used to have sleep paralyses frequently when I was younger, always including hallucinations of a shadow being looming over me. I had the distinct feeling that it was a malevolent presence that meant to do me harm in some kind of ineffable way. Like you, I also haven't experienced sleep paralyses in quite some time. Without a doubt, the phenomenon accounts for myths, legends, and stories throughout human history.

The feeling of malevolence/danger is definitely a thing. I'm certainly no neuroscientist, but I imagine there are some brain chemicals involved. Paralysis being a stressful and potentially dangerous situation, etc.


I don't think I've ever seen someone who shouldn't be there. I've heard stories like that from people though. IIRC, Neil Gaiman talked about an experience like that in one of his books. And there are the 'third man' experiences that some people have in life-threatening experiences.

Are these 'supernatural' ghosts or apparitions? Are they mysterious, self-created visions and experiences that remind us how subjective reality actually is? Which explanation is weirder?

I've had a couple experiences that could be claimed to be supernatural, or just the result of active imaginations.

When I was a kid my mom and stepdad would get my sister and I for weekends often requiring a trip up to Seattle, occasionally they would stay down where my sister and I lived, and we'd stay at my step-grandfather's house. It was a relatively normal house for an old man that lived on his own most of the time, dirty, full of tool ect. I distinctly remember one night my sister and I sleeping in the spare room we stayed in there. I remember waking up late one night to the feeling of being watched, and groggily opening my eyes to look around the room, seeing nothing I laid my head back down and as I did so saw two faces looking in the window of the room. The face of a girl and boy only slightly older than my sister and I. I blinked and they were gone. As a child that had seen too many horror movies for that age (thanks dad) I just kinda stared for a moment, then laid back down thinking little of it. Told my parents the next morning and they just looked at one another and brushed it off. Now, the window to where my sister and I did have the stairs to the upper patio running bellow it, but at such a height that as a 6 foot tall adult I would struggle to have my face where theirs was, and a couple years later I would find out that when my stepdad was younger, the neighbor lady had murdered her two children. Still I mean, could just be the work of an overactive imagination and coincidence.

Same house, some years later. My stepdad and I came back from a fishing trip on the coast, my sisters (youngest sister hadn't been born at the time of the last story) had the spare room, my mother and stepfather in the other spare and I didn't want to sleep on the couch so I took my step-grandfather's room since he was still out fishing. I was exhausted, like the kind of exhausted where someone has to physically disturb you to wake you up. Yet, low and behold, I wake up in the middle of the night to something sitting at the foot of the bed. I open my eyes and see the indentation on the mattress and comforter. At this point used to the house and its oddities, I just lay back down and go to sleep. Mention it to my step-grandfather later and his reply was "Yeah that happens." His theory was it was the wife of the previous owner who had died in the house and that she just looked over people.

My family was convinced that there were 3-4 ghosts, the 2 Neighbor Kids who used to come over all the time, the old woman and if there was a 4th the creepyone, that made places incredibly uncomfortable to be in and always felt malevolent.

Later on in highschool there was an abandoned house that we'd explore occasionally where there were odd feelings all around, feelings of being touched (and seeing the hairs on the back of my friends neck be flat as if by a hand in one spot, while standing all around that area. The smell of rotting flesh (honestly that could be a dead animal) all together just an odd place, where after going there occasionally we'd look up to the room where we smelled the rot to see what looked like someone staring down at us (which Im sure was just us seeing what we wanted to see).

My friend who lived closes to the house was a firm non-believer but would describe things that he'd sometimes see at night which he'd say was just his imagination and I'd joke was the ghost of the other house coming to visit. Once we were discussing it in his kitchen and he yelled back that it wasn't a ghost and that neither house was haunted. Dish soap bottle about 4 feet from the both of us flew across the room. That was odd for sure.

 Vulcan wrote:
I'll grant you sleep paralysis accounts for accounts where people are sleeping/nearly sleeping.

I was wide awake for mine. And while I'll grant you it's probably much more likely my mind tricked me into hearing footsteps behind me on that gravel beach... prove it.

Echoes. Probably bouncing off a barrier wall.

 Just Tony wrote:
Compounding the issue is that ANY evidence that is gathered is dismissed out of hand immediately. It doesn't matter what corroborates the footage, how it could tie in to actual history of the location, OR any attempts to recreate the moment in an effort to debunk it with no success at all of making it happen in the same way. All that matters is that it "can't" exist, therefore the evidence is disregarded.

Same thing goes about life on other planets. We've found microbes on other celestial objects, which is indeed indicative of life coming from planets other than our own. But most "experts" on any sort of forum you find will immediately denounce the thought that life could exist. Press them with that evidence, and then it's INTELLIGENT life can't exist elsewhere.

I find BOTH skeptics close minded.

Where do you post? Because I have had the opposite happen on every single forum I post on. I have never heard an "expert" say there is no possibility of intelligent life on other planets. Who are you considering to be "experts" here?

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
I'll grant you sleep paralysis accounts for accounts where people are sleeping/nearly sleeping.

I was wide awake for mine. And while I'll grant you it's probably much more likely my mind tricked me into hearing footsteps behind me on that gravel beach... prove it.

Echoes. Probably bouncing off a barrier wall.

Here's a relevant detail for you. This was the Merrimac River in Missouri. We were well upstream from St. Louis, between Steelville and St. James (neither of which are on the river, by the by; just the nearest towns). No highways within dozens of miles, much less highways with barrier walls. The gravel bar we camped at was about a mile from the nearest road, as best we could tell; no telling how far to the nearest wall. Just the Merrimac river and miles of woods.

Care to try again?

Jesus... like anyone's going to suddenly prove or definitively disprove ghostly experiences on an internet forum. Maybe dial it back a bit yall XD

 Vulcan wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
I'll grant you sleep paralysis accounts for accounts where people are sleeping/nearly sleeping.

I was wide awake for mine. And while I'll grant you it's probably much more likely my mind tricked me into hearing footsteps behind me on that gravel beach... prove it.

Echoes. Probably bouncing off a barrier wall.

Here's a relevant detail for you. This was the Merrimac River in Missouri. We were well upstream from St. Louis, between Steelville and St. James (neither of which are on the river, by the by; just the nearest towns). No highways within dozens of miles, much less highways with barrier walls. The gravel bar we camped at was about a mile from the nearest road, as best we could tell; no telling how far to the nearest wall. Just the Merrimac river and miles of woods.

Care to try again?

Yeah, it echoed off the miles of woods.

Not difficult.

Yeah, just the quiet sound of feet on gravel echoing for miles without any loss of volume. I'd buy it.

Dreadwinter wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
I'll grant you sleep paralysis accounts for accounts where people are sleeping/nearly sleeping.

I was wide awake for mine. And while I'll grant you it's probably much more likely my mind tricked me into hearing footsteps behind me on that gravel beach... prove it.

Echoes. Probably bouncing off a barrier wall.

 Just Tony wrote:
Compounding the issue is that ANY evidence that is gathered is dismissed out of hand immediately. It doesn't matter what corroborates the footage, how it could tie in to actual history of the location, OR any attempts to recreate the moment in an effort to debunk it with no success at all of making it happen in the same way. All that matters is that it "can't" exist, therefore the evidence is disregarded.

Same thing goes about life on other planets. We've found microbes on other celestial objects, which is indeed indicative of life coming from planets other than our own. But most "experts" on any sort of forum you find will immediately denounce the thought that life could exist. Press them with that evidence, and then it's INTELLIGENT life can't exist elsewhere.

I find BOTH skeptics close minded.

Where do you post? Because I have had the opposite happen on every single forum I post on. I have never heard an "expert" say there is no possibility of intelligent life on other planets. Who are you considering to be "experts" here?

The quotation marks were there to derisively jab at any so-called experts on these forums. I've seen people go on with their expert analysis of US military capabilities and functions, only to have actual vets like myself and djones wreck their "expertise". I pretty much assume EVERY person on here is a Wal-Mart cashier, and question every "fact" that's flung my way.

 Just Tony wrote:
Yeah, just the quiet sound of feet on gravel echoing for miles without any loss of volume. I'd buy it.

Dreadwinter wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
I'll grant you sleep paralysis accounts for accounts where people are sleeping/nearly sleeping.

I was wide awake for mine. And while I'll grant you it's probably much more likely my mind tricked me into hearing footsteps behind me on that gravel beach... prove it.

Echoes. Probably bouncing off a barrier wall.

 Just Tony wrote:
Compounding the issue is that ANY evidence that is gathered is dismissed out of hand immediately. It doesn't matter what corroborates the footage, how it could tie in to actual history of the location, OR any attempts to recreate the moment in an effort to debunk it with no success at all of making it happen in the same way. All that matters is that it "can't" exist, therefore the evidence is disregarded.

Same thing goes about life on other planets. We've found microbes on other celestial objects, which is indeed indicative of life coming from planets other than our own. But most "experts" on any sort of forum you find will immediately denounce the thought that life could exist. Press them with that evidence, and then it's INTELLIGENT life can't exist elsewhere.

I find BOTH skeptics close minded.

Where do you post? Because I have had the opposite happen on every single forum I post on. I have never heard an "expert" say there is no possibility of intelligent life on other planets. Who are you considering to be "experts" here?

The quotation marks were there to derisively jab at any so-called experts on these forums. I've seen people go on with their expert analysis of US military capabilities and functions, only to have actual vets like myself and djones wreck their "expertise". I pretty much assume EVERY person on here is a Wal-Mart cashier, and question every "fact" that's flung my way.

So you are an agnostic Wal-Mart cashier? Nice to meet you.

But, what Dreadwinter was saying is not that the sound echoed for miles, but that it could have echoed off the (miles of) woods.

 Just Tony wrote:
Agreed. If you can offer an explanation where my night light example has a plausible scientific explanation, I'm all ears.

It is kind of hard to provide a scientific explanation for an anecdote. The nightlight may not have been placed on the table stably and was knocked over by an air current, or by the vibrations of whatever caused the knock on the wall you heard (which could have been an animal, an object or person in another room, air pressure changes, humidity changes, water running through the pipes in the house, water hammer, a loose pipe or other part of the house's structure, processes in the wood (if it was a wooden home) or some object hitting the house or any of a myriad other perfectly mundane things which can cause a knocking sound). The scientific method seeks to test the most simple hypotheses first and to reject them before considering more complicated ones (and the intervention of a supernatural being is very high up the scale of complicatedness). The problem with an anecdote of course is that the hypotheses can no longer be tested.

At my Grandparents, the ones where I had the awful night terror/sleep paraylsis episode, I always heard scratching in the walls.

We had raccoons living in the walls, not translucent people looking to scare me for fun.

This is what confuses me about ghosts and other supernatural things. What are their motivations to do the things people claim they do? What is the point in making footsteps behind somebody or moving a nightlight?

Communication is typically the reason they do things.

That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

is Testimony no longer evidence then?

Testimony =
a formal written or spoken statement, especially one given in a court of law
or
a public recounting of a religious conversion or experience.

Which one is supposed to convince me that ghosts are real?

I'm hoping some other forms of evidence to support the testimony... otherwise it's just an anecdote...

"My nightlamp flew circles around my head. Prove me wrong."

How am I supposed to prove this testimony wrong?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In Science, eye witness testimony is the weakest form of evidence there is.

My sister sees "ghosts" and "Angels".

She's also a born-again holier-than-though type, though (because none of us were RAISED in a religious family - her conversion happened as an adult). She expects to see them, though, so she does.

I have never seen a ghost or apparition, I don't believe they exist, so I don't see them. The brain is good at ignoring stuff when it wants to, just as well as it fills in gaps and sees things that AREN'T there.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
is Testimony no longer evidence then?

No, not when the person is unable to provide physical evidence.

Coincidentally, the same reason I don't believe in the great sky fairy,

 Col Hammer wrote:
How am I supposed to prove this testimony wrong?

Oh, this one is actually really easy. Introduce them to physics.

So, I if I go to the Police, and explain that some goon just pointed a gun at me in the park and threatened my life, no crime could possibly have happened, and the Police don't need to log it or investigate it at all, because there's only my testimony, yes?

Or what about an... assault? We saw firsthand recently how irrefutable personal testimony was in that instance.

By all means test the testimony. Look into the claims, then refute.

But the whole 'I are science, don't have to look further' is just childish.

I posted my experiences, and described them as best I can. They are not presented as irrefutable evidence of hauntings, ghosts, the supernatural etc. But nobody has, so far, attempted to explain what it was I actually saw/felt. Instead, just a barrage of science bores explaining they're science bores, therefore I must be wrong.

Yeah, honestly it must be awful to not believe in anything except that which you can physically reach out and touch. Gives no sense of wonder. Oh well, I guess some people just have to be horribly negative and tell us how stupid we all are for believing there is something more. Poor poor us (aka, quit pissing in the Cheerios).

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
By all means test the testimony. Look into the claims, then refute.

But the whole 'I are science, don't have to look further' is just childish.

I posted my experiences, and described them as best I can. They are not presented as irrefutable evidence of hauntings, ghosts, the supernatural etc. But nobody has, so far, attempted to explain what it was I actually saw/felt. Instead, just a barrage of science bores explaining they're science bores, therefore I must be wrong.

I believe "crazy" was their explanation...

This thread was funner when it was just ghost stories, and less fun now that people are (poorly) debating the scientific method.

Anyone got anymore ghost stories? I heard a thumping outside the house once. Turned out to just be a deer sleeping on the back porch, but it was pretty damn freaky at the time.