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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





You either take 3 battalions or a Brigade+Battalion.


I've noticed in an attempt to curtail soup armies, many events are now restricting to 2 or 1 detachment. I usually play at nova and adepticon, and many of the non GT events have restricted detachment amounts. So the last event I played at, and the next two only allow a single detachment.

Always check with your TO's before going nuts on list building. Nothing like making up a sweet 3 bat list and finding out you can't run it.

   
Made in us
Nasty Nob





United States

 Blackie wrote:
 Rismonite wrote:
You'll probably want to Tellyport two or three units (4-6 CP)
You'll probably want a Warphead or two (1-2 CP)
You'll probably want an Extra Shiny Gubbinz (1CP)

Turn one you'll likely want to mob up some Lootas (1CP)
You'll likely want to use Moar Dakka and Showin Off! (4CP)
If you didn't go first you'll want Prepared Positions (2 CP) and Grot Shields (1 CP)

So that's 14-17 CP. That's not using wreckerz turn one, that's not using "Get stuck in Ladz", "Orkz is neva defeated", or "Endless Green Tide". It is entirely possible to blow through 18 CP by the end of turn one and not really feel like you wasted a single point.


Nah, you chose one tactic or another, which determines what stratagems do you need and in what number. The lootas combo works on its own, you just need to field a lot of boyz, gretchins and characters to give them target saturation. Maybe just invest 2CPs for tellyporta, and all the other CPs are ok on the lootas.

Prepared positions is completely useless in a green tide, which is the most effective way to field those 25 lootas. No extra relics really required. No need of the warphead either since three battallions means basically 3 weirdboyz and only one power (da jump) is really recommended for that type of list. Wreckers also useless, if you shoot with tons of buffed lootas you already got all the shooting you need. Maybe just the endless green tide could be helpful but most of the games are over after 2 turns of shooting of those super buffed lootas. It's not easy to deal with 90 evil sunz boyz under the KFF bubble if you also need to clear tons of gretchins in order to get the lootas. When I played it, full green tide with 3 battallions, I usually had 4-5 spared CPs for endless green tide or to invest in a third round of shooting. Endless green tide is also not easy to get since a mob can be just lowered in its number but not enough to invest 3 CPs or completely shot off the table.


Blackie with just a Looota bomb, we can hand out soo many dice on two targets. Why not spend the CP to help synergize/tellyport some gitz in the hole the Lootas left? Between turn one and two, it just seems 'must take' to bring a turn 2 deep strike to stand in what your Lootas cleared. I think you were saying "no need to utilized both playstyles, that is spread too thin." but it seems 3xbattalion fits inside 2000 points and can freely fit the Loota bomb and one and maybe twoish tellyport components.

I am the kinda ork that takes his own washing machine apart, puts new bearings in it, then puts it back together, and it still works. 
   
Made in us
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





Indianapolis, IN

I must be doing it wrong. I usually have 0 cp when i play. I spend them all before the game begins. lol

In other news, my nobz list has claimed its first victory. The main issue i ran into was my lack of anti armor for range. I need to find away to add more of that to my list. Overal I am happy with how the list played.

See Spolier:
Spoiler:
++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Orks) [89 PL, 1300pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Deathskulls

Extra Gubbins (1/3 CP): 1 Extra Shiny Gubbins (1 CP)

+ HQ +

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 2. Warpath, 4. Fists of Gork, Scorched Gitbonez, Warphead (1 CP)

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 3. Da Jump, 5. Da Krunch, Warphead (1 CP)

+ Elites +

Nob with Waaagh! Banner [4 PL, 77pts]: Kustom Shoota

Nobz [14 PL, 165pts]
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Kustom Shoota (Index)
. Nob: Choppa, Kustom Shoota (Index)
. Nob: Choppa, Kustom Shoota (Index)
. Nob: Choppa, Kustom Shoota (Index)
. Nob: Choppa, Kustom Shoota (Index)
. Nob: Choppa, Kustom Shoota (Index)
. Nob: Choppa, Kustom Shoota (Index)
. Nob: Choppa, Kustom Shoota (Index)
. Nob: Choppa, Kustom Shoota (Index)
. Nob: Choppa, Kustom Shoota (Index)

Nobz [14 PL, 163pts]
. Boss Nob: Killsaw, Killsaw
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Slugga

Nobz [14 PL, 163pts]
. Boss Nob: Killsaw, Killsaw
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa

Nobz [14 PL, 163pts]
. Boss Nob: Killsaw, Killsaw
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa

Nobz on Warbikes [7 PL, 127pts]
. Boss Nob on Warbike: Power Klaw, Shoota (Index), Stikkbombs
. Nob on Warbike: Choppa, Choppa, Stikkbombs
. Nob on Warbike: Choppa, Choppa, Stikkbombs

+ Heavy Support +

Mek Gunz [4 PL, 62pts]
. Gun: Smasha Gun
. Gun: Smasha Gun

+ Dedicated Transport +

Trukk [3 PL, 64pts]: Big Shoota

Trukk [3 PL, 64pts]: Big Shoota

Trukk [3 PL, 64pts]: Big Shoota

Trukk [3 PL, 64pts]: Big Shoota

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [36 PL, 698pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Deathskulls

+ HQ +

Big Mek (Index) [5 PL, 75pts]: Choppa, Follow me Ladz!, Kustom Force Field, Warlord

Warboss in Mega Armour (index) [7 PL, 122pts]: Da Killa Klaw, Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw

+ Troops +

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

+ Elites +

Meganobz [10 PL, 183pts]
. Boss Meganob w/ Saws: Killsaws (Pair)
. Meganob W/ PK: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob W/ PK: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob W/ PK: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob W/ PK: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw

Painboy [3 PL, 65pts]: Power Klaw

+ Heavy Support +

Battlewagon [8 PL, 163pts]: 'ard Case, Deff Rolla, 2x Rokkit Launcha (Index)

++ Total: [125 PL, 1998pts] ++

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/06 13:55:28


Armies:
The Iron Waagh: 10,000+ 8th Edition Tournament Record: 4-7-1
Salamanders: 5,000 8th Edition Tournament Record: 4-2
Ultramarines: 4,000
Armored Battle Company (DKoK): 4000
Elysians: 500
Khorne Daemons: 2500
 
   
Made in es
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva




I usually use my CP in tellyporta, endless greentide, more dakka and the one for deathskulls to reroll misses in wounds

Orks 5000p 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Glitcha,
Maybe drop a few nobz and take some more smasha guns? That is probably the easiest solution. Since you are death skulls, I'd drop the killa saw and take a PK. (You can reroll the damage result).

   
Made in us
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





Indianapolis, IN

 greggles wrote:
Glitcha,
Maybe drop a few nobz and take some more smasha guns? That is probably the easiest solution. Since you are death skulls, I'd drop the killa saw and take a PK. (You can reroll the damage result).


The only reason I chose deathskulls was to give me objective secure on the nobz and the 6++. I'm okay with not getting the reroll dmg. Reroll to hit and reroll to wound is enough for me.

Armies:
The Iron Waagh: 10,000+ 8th Edition Tournament Record: 4-7-1
Salamanders: 5,000 8th Edition Tournament Record: 4-2
Ultramarines: 4,000
Armored Battle Company (DKoK): 4000
Elysians: 500
Khorne Daemons: 2500
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Figured, was trying to find you some easy points for more smasha guns

   
Made in us
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





Indianapolis, IN

 greggles wrote:
Figured, was trying to find you some easy points for more smasha guns


Thanks, too bad they dont get klan traits. Might need to find something else that does get klan traits.

Armies:
The Iron Waagh: 10,000+ 8th Edition Tournament Record: 4-7-1
Salamanders: 5,000 8th Edition Tournament Record: 4-2
Ultramarines: 4,000
Armored Battle Company (DKoK): 4000
Elysians: 500
Khorne Daemons: 2500
 
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

 Rismonite wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
 Rismonite wrote:
You'll probably want to Tellyport two or three units (4-6 CP)
You'll probably want a Warphead or two (1-2 CP)
You'll probably want an Extra Shiny Gubbinz (1CP)

Turn one you'll likely want to mob up some Lootas (1CP)
You'll likely want to use Moar Dakka and Showin Off! (4CP)
If you didn't go first you'll want Prepared Positions (2 CP) and Grot Shields (1 CP)

So that's 14-17 CP. That's not using wreckerz turn one, that's not using "Get stuck in Ladz", "Orkz is neva defeated", or "Endless Green Tide". It is entirely possible to blow through 18 CP by the end of turn one and not really feel like you wasted a single point.


Nah, you chose one tactic or another, which determines what stratagems do you need and in what number. The lootas combo works on its own, you just need to field a lot of boyz, gretchins and characters to give them target saturation. Maybe just invest 2CPs for tellyporta, and all the other CPs are ok on the lootas.

Prepared positions is completely useless in a green tide, which is the most effective way to field those 25 lootas. No extra relics really required. No need of the warphead either since three battallions means basically 3 weirdboyz and only one power (da jump) is really recommended for that type of list. Wreckers also useless, if you shoot with tons of buffed lootas you already got all the shooting you need. Maybe just the endless green tide could be helpful but most of the games are over after 2 turns of shooting of those super buffed lootas. It's not easy to deal with 90 evil sunz boyz under the KFF bubble if you also need to clear tons of gretchins in order to get the lootas. When I played it, full green tide with 3 battallions, I usually had 4-5 spared CPs for endless green tide or to invest in a third round of shooting. Endless green tide is also not easy to get since a mob can be just lowered in its number but not enough to invest 3 CPs or completely shot off the table.


Blackie with just a Looota bomb, we can hand out soo many dice on two targets. Why not spend the CP to help synergize/tellyport some gitz in the hole the Lootas left? Between turn one and two, it just seems 'must take' to bring a turn 2 deep strike to stand in what your Lootas cleared. I think you were saying "no need to utilized both playstyles, that is spread too thin." but it seems 3xbattalion fits inside 2000 points and can freely fit the Loota bomb and one and maybe twoish tellyport components.


2 targets per turn means four big targets dead or highly damaged in two turns. You can also declare split fire and target multiple units before rolling to hit. Let the boyz do the rest.

If you want more shooting a few mek gunz can fit as well since they're quite cheap. In the list I've tried I had 3 evil sunz deff dreads or 9 meganobz delivered by tellyporta. Of course you can make use of both playtests but the lootas bomb absorb a huge amount of CPs and I wouldn't field other untis that are CPs hungry as well. A single tellyported unit should be enough, you already have the weirdboy that can da jump stuff in turns 2+. But of course as long as you have the CPs all kind of tactics are legit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/06 14:31:13


 
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/06/6th-dec-imperial-specialist-detachments-rules-previewgw-homepage-post-4/

The "Field Commander" we could potentially get some mileage out of.. Depends on what the new traits are I suppose
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Thanks, too bad they dont get klan traits. Might need to find something else that does get klan traits.


Aye, but d3 shots with dakka dakka still outputs some horrific damage at 48 inches. Can you imagine how broken they'd be if you could take death skulls with them?

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 greggles wrote:
Thanks, too bad they dont get klan traits. Might need to find something else that does get klan traits.


Aye, but d3 shots with dakka dakka still outputs some horrific damage at 48 inches. Can you imagine how broken they'd be if you could take death skulls with them?

Ya men guns are definitely balanced around no traits. Probably a bit to good on some.
Gretchin are balanced for no traits.
Killa kans on the other hand just appear to be forgotten. They needed to be substantially cheaper and/or increased BS to 3+ maybe even make killakans special just allow them to have +1 atk next to another kan..
   
Made in nl
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle





I think upping Killa Kans to at least WS4+ might be nice. They have a decent number of attacks already and got a 10 point drop from the index but ws5+ is just terrible.
   
Made in es
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva




Played against ultramarines today, my resume with bad english.

- First turn for marines, shooting ma boyz and nobz, my nobz protect themselves with gretchlins, as a result, my gretchlin unit dies and some boyz dies.

- My turn, I DaJump 10 nobz with choppas and big choppas into the predator and space marines, THEY FAIL THE CHARGE, ROFL. My boyz shoot but don't really do any kind of damage, my 3 deffkoptas shoot into the Dreadnought and oneshot him with the rockets, so this turn the only thing I did was killing the dreadnought.

- Ultramarines second turn, a lot of dakka into my boyz. he does a very bad focus and he leaves 13 boyz alive from the starter 30, my nobz (the ones who failed the charge) gets demolished, he destroys one deffkopta.

- My second turn, I go Endless Greentide, (his face is like WTF?) I jump into the marines, I destroy a lot of his army, my deffkoptas shoot his predator, make some wounds.

- His third turn, more dakka into boyz.

_ My third turn, I charge with everything and destroy his army, he have a predator and some marines left, finish 10-4

Orks 5000p 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Upping kanz WS to 4+ would be disgusting imo but probably not broken by any means.
I'd rather them get better guns since thats kinda the point of them, they hit on 4s in shooting.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in nl
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle





 Vineheart01 wrote:
Upping kanz WS to 4+ would be disgusting imo but probably not broken by any means.
I'd rather them get better guns since thats kinda the point of them, they hit on 4s in shooting.

Yes and no in my opinion. They might seem shooty focused but that's because regular ork shooting is "terrible" barring some klan traits and because the kanz own WS is terrible in return. At the end of the day I'm paying a lot of points for 1 rockit a kan per turn. Seeing that they get a bonus to attacks for larger squads and a decent amount of base attacks I rather they be at least half way decent at melee. Obviously that's just my personal opinion and I can see the case for making them more of a shooty unit but I think we can all agree they need something to not be overshadowed by better options. I just thought ws4+ (maybe even with a slight increase in points) would be a good way to give them the edge they need. But I guess we have to wait and see if the Dread Waagh makes them useful. I'm hoping yes but I'm sitting this one out before I buy more kanz.
   
Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






Yeah, I feel making them 4+ WS base to show them being better than the weedy grotz they used to be would be a decent way to make up for their lack of klan traits. That or change Skrag 'Em to a variant of Surprisingly Dangerous in Large Numbers to give them +1 to hit for both shooting and cc when their unit size is 3 or more. This way you have incentive for taking larger units, while benefiting from doing so.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I don't understand why they have morale period. They're grots that have been given the ultimate upgrade. They're basically super duper grots. Make killa kans immune to morale because the gretchin inside are absolutely insane. (That would go a long way to helping them out)

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 greggles wrote:
I don't understand why they have morale period. They're grots that have been given the ultimate upgrade. They're basically super duper grots. Make killa kans immune to morale because the gretchin inside are absolutely insane. (That would go a long way to helping them out)


And that right there my friend is the biggest reason I will not field Kanz in 8th edition in actual numbers. LD 6! If you take a big squad of 6 and you lose 3 (God forbid) you have a 50% chance of losing another 1 or if you role horrendous you could theoretically lose the entire squad. No thanks. This is just another great example of GW not being able to correctly balance cost/risk with benefit. They cost too much for the benefits they give and their risk is too high.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in au
Ork Boy Hangin' off a Trukk





Honestly don't think changing the WS on Killa Kans will be the fix they need. After playing a few games with them, they definitely compensate for that WS5+ via the volume of attacks they can get. Morale is trash but at least you can work around that.

Their real downside is their lack of mobility. Every game I've played with them has been them crawling from my deployment towards objectives, and maybe getting a charge off on turn 3, this is including advances. They do have a lot of potential when they get into melee but their inability to consistently get into melee is holding them down.
They have too much competition from Meganobz, Deff Dreads, Nauts, and Bonebreakas, which can all reach their targets on turn 2 and sometimes turn 1.

On the upside, they're surprisingly tanky for their cost. So at the very least they could firmly hold objectives.

Lots of pts of Orks
3000 pts of AdMech and punchy-choppy Knights
Ork Shooting Probability feat. Dakka Dakka Dakka, re-rolls, and More Dakka 
   
Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






 Quackzo wrote:
Honestly don't think changing the WS on Killa Kans will be the fix they need. After playing a few games with them, they definitely compensate for that WS5+ via the volume of attacks they can get. Morale is trash but at least you can work around that.

Their real downside is their lack of mobility. Every game I've played with them has been them crawling from my deployment towards objectives, and maybe getting a charge off on turn 3, this is including advances. They do have a lot of potential when they get into melee but their inability to consistently get into melee is holding them down.
They have too much competition from Meganobz, Deff Dreads, Nauts, and Bonebreakas, which can all reach their targets on turn 2 and sometimes turn 1.

On the upside, they're surprisingly tanky for their cost. So at the very least they could firmly hold objectives.


I'm not entirely sure mobility is their main issue, with deffkilla wartrikes allowing them to advance and charge. I do partially agree in the sense that I feel they should be allowed to tellyport onto the field. It really is a mixture of being vulnerable to morale and everything else in the codex getting better meaning that they effectively got worse.

Personally, I wish grotzookas got changed back to assault, and if it had at least AP-1, it would be something that might be considered rather than completely ignored.
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




Douglasville, GA

I wish we could swap the CC weapon with another gun. They're basically mobile weapons platforms and would be much more suited for double gunning then having any melee weapon. Just give them a couple Assault Guns with a decent range and it don't matter if they move slow as dirt or have bad morale.
   
Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






 flandarz wrote:
I wish we could swap the CC weapon with another gun. They're basically mobile weapons platforms and would be much more suited for double gunning then having any melee weapon. Just give them a couple Assault Guns with a decent range and it don't matter if they move slow as dirt or have bad morale.


I'd just be happy seeing their baseline weapons be double the shots, their rokkit launcha arm could easily count as a "Rokkit Rack" or Twin Rokkit Launchas, same with the Big Shoota. Even just having a stratagem for 1 CP for Kanz firing twice would be great, kinda like a Killan Kan Fire Frenzy equivalent.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/07 03:47:13


 
   
Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal



Colorado

Can't their WS get buffed with Banner Nob if you really wanted?
   
Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






v0iddrgn wrote:
Can't their WS get buffed with Banner Nob if you really wanted?


Yeah, but that's 77 points just to make them fight semi-competently, which just adds more to the issue that they rely on too many other units to prop up, unlike our other Walker units.
   
Made in au
Flashy Flashgitz






SemperMortis wrote:
I disagree about it being too soon. Realistically nothing changed in the Codex from the Index as far as units are concerned. Basically we just got some fresh paint (Klan Kultures) and gimmicks (Stratagems). So if a unit was trash before hand (Lootas) they will continue to be trash unless they are heavily buffed by either Kulture or Strats. In the case of the lootas...well they didn't get a big boost from Kulture so they rely on strats to hold them up. So with that in mind you then look at what is the best strats to use on them and you quickly realize that for them to be optimal, they are going to be spending at least 3 CP a turn on them, not including Mob up or other buffs you can give them.

So if you aren't taking 18CP or more you are going to be running out of CP by the end of turn 2.

But, that all depends on whether or not your are playing a competitive game or a fun game. If its a fun game it might be better to just smash CP into one or two units and run rampant for a turn or two.

For me, my area is very competitive with a lot of net lists and a lot of power gaming, I have been bringing almost exclusively Speed Freakz in an Evil Sunz army and relying on massive turn 2 Deep striking teamed with bum rushing fast units turn 1 to win games. It is rather satisfying to watch people realize that 24 inches wasn't far enough back from my Warbikerz And on turn 2 watching them get even more surprised when half my army appears within 8' charge range
We disagree again, and once again it's over the fact that you undervalue stratagems/relics/traits/tactics. That's all that matters when they give you a new codex mate, that's all that anyone really gets.

Stratagems/relics/traits/tactics are the reason the Castellan is outrageous. 3++ (relic and stratagem) and rerroll all 1s (stratagem thanks to chapter tactic) makes this unit unbeatable in efficiency, and it costs a lot of CP. Still considered absolutely top tier, because it is.... it's top tier. Just like Lootas.

Stratagems/relics/traits/tactics are the reason blood angel captains were too dominant. 3d6 charge, +d3 attacks, not suffering overwatch, and 4dmg weapon. None of that gak is on the data slate mate.

All the things that are borderline broken, are thanks to one of these bells and whistles working with a synergy. Shining spears advance and charge + soulburst, genestealers super speed clan tactic, razorwing jet fighters at -2 to hit, dark reapers fire and fade, cultists tide of traitors and double shoot, tzangoors dark matter crystal movement, lootas more dakka/showin off/grot shields, dude I can go on and on. Name me a unit people complain about and I'll tell you the stratagem that makes them broken. And the only thing that breaks that rule, are things like the loyal 32, because they enable more CP to do more broken things. It's always been about the tricks man, the data slate is important sure, but its the tricks that make units broken.

Stratagems are the codex. There is NO dice to make them work, it's the first thing you read when you open a codex, and they are the tools you use to build breakthrough efficiency. To disregard them and build a list without considering the benefit of stratagems is a low-tier-fluffy attitude. Semper, you are and incorrectly undervaluing the efficiency and capacity of our units.

Saying that Lootas are only good because of their stratagems and CP cost... is the same as saying Lootas are good... Because Lootas are good. And they only got that way thanks to stratagems and clan tactics.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 Blackie wrote:

To be optimal you should invest 5-6 CPs per turn on lootas. Mob Up, More Dakka, Showing Off and probably a re-roll on the number of shots since on 2 rolls you may easily get a 1 or 2 on that D3. Grot Shields in the opponent turn. So usually 12-13 CPs for two turns of shooting but it's not an issue since very competitive games are usually over at the at top of turn 2 or 3 at most.

In a more relaxed meta, but still semi-competitive at least, 15 lootas with just Showing Off and Grot Shields are already good enough to see many tables for an average of 7-8 CPs in the first two rounds of shooting.


One roll for lootas if you refer show off. The d3 is for phase so show off you use same value

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in es
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva




What makes a unit good or bad is his cost and his stratagems/tactics/synergy

Orks 5000p 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut





 Glitcha wrote:
 greggles wrote:
Figured, was trying to find you some easy points for more smasha guns


Thanks, too bad they dont get klan traits. Might need to find something else that does get klan traits.


Deffkoptas with Kustom Mega Blastas are 39 points a pop and synergise disgustingly well with Deffskulls if you field them as single units. 24" Str 8 Ap-3 D6 dmg on a flying platform that helps to fill out Brigades is ridiculously good when you can reroll to hit, to wound and the damage.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/07 12:25:47


 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 hollow one wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
I disagree about it being too soon. Realistically nothing changed in the Codex from the Index as far as units are concerned. Basically we just got some fresh paint (Klan Kultures) and gimmicks (Stratagems). So if a unit was trash before hand (Lootas) they will continue to be trash unless they are heavily buffed by either Kulture or Strats. In the case of the lootas...well they didn't get a big boost from Kulture so they rely on strats to hold them up. So with that in mind you then look at what is the best strats to use on them and you quickly realize that for them to be optimal, they are going to be spending at least 3 CP a turn on them, not including Mob up or other buffs you can give them.

So if you aren't taking 18CP or more you are going to be running out of CP by the end of turn 2.

But, that all depends on whether or not your are playing a competitive game or a fun game. If its a fun game it might be better to just smash CP into one or two units and run rampant for a turn or two.

For me, my area is very competitive with a lot of net lists and a lot of power gaming, I have been bringing almost exclusively Speed Freakz in an Evil Sunz army and relying on massive turn 2 Deep striking teamed with bum rushing fast units turn 1 to win games. It is rather satisfying to watch people realize that 24 inches wasn't far enough back from my Warbikerz And on turn 2 watching them get even more surprised when half my army appears within 8' charge range
We disagree again, and once again it's over the fact that you undervalue stratagems/relics/traits/tactics. That's all that matters when they give you a new codex mate, that's all that anyone really gets.

Stratagems/relics/traits/tactics are the reason the Castellan is outrageous. 3++ (relic and stratagem) and rerroll all 1s (stratagem thanks to chapter tactic) makes this unit unbeatable in efficiency, and it costs a lot of CP. Still considered absolutely top tier, because it is.... it's top tier. Just like Lootas.

Stratagems/relics/traits/tactics are the reason blood angel captains were too dominant. 3d6 charge, +d3 attacks, not suffering overwatch, and 4dmg weapon. None of that gak is on the data slate mate.

All the things that are borderline broken, are thanks to one of these bells and whistles working with a synergy. Shining spears advance and charge + soulburst, genestealers super speed clan tactic, razorwing jet fighters at -2 to hit, dark reapers fire and fade, cultists tide of traitors and double shoot, tzangoors dark matter crystal movement, lootas more dakka/showin off/grot shields, dude I can go on and on. Name me a unit people complain about and I'll tell you the stratagem that makes them broken. And the only thing that breaks that rule, are things like the loyal 32, because they enable more CP to do more broken things. It's always been about the tricks man, the data slate is important sure, but its the tricks that make units broken.

Stratagems are the codex. There is NO dice to make them work, it's the first thing you read when you open a codex, and they are the tools you use to build breakthrough efficiency. To disregard them and build a list without considering the benefit of stratagems is a low-tier-fluffy attitude. Semper, you are and incorrectly undervaluing the efficiency and capacity of our units.

Saying that Lootas are only good because of their stratagems and CP cost... is the same as saying Lootas are good... Because Lootas are good. And they only got that way thanks to stratagems and clan tactics.


Also, entirely worth noting here that many units not only changed in terms of stratagems/tactics, but also points costs and rules.

Trakktor kannons - basically a totally different unit now, and AMAZING at their job.

Flash Gitz - got 4+ armor, +1S, and +1D on their weapons

Meganobz - their bodies and every piece of equipment they can be equipped with dropped points, they went from trash to amazing via rules

Wazbom Blastajet - every weapon it has had its damage doubled. Its price went up, everyone raged, then the second they looked at the rules they figured out why.

Not to mention army-wide improvements, like everyone getting better at charging with improved 'ere we go and better at shooting with DDD... this "argument" is goofy. It's basically "argument from Say The Thing That Happened Didnt Happen."

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/07 12:53:28


"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
 
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