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Ilgoth wrote:Thank you for correcting! This is why I share.

Didn't realise the deff rolla had to be had into wargear, thank you for pointing it out.

Is bonebreaka's higher toughness and bonebreaka ram ability worth the increased cost when compared to battlewagon?

I think the bonebreaka is great for its points since it buffs it significantly at full health and stems the flow of damage degradation when hurt. (It's always +d6 attacks, but the wagon itself goes from 6 to d6 to d3). You need to weigh if that's worth dropping 8 ork capacity though, since its absolutely worth 20 points.

Rismonite wrote:

 owni wrote:
Hello all,
Thoughts on tank Busta load outs?
I'm running 4x5+squig deffskullz split in 2 trucks
Is it worth taking pistols or hammer?

I think what you have posted is ideal. I would not bother with hammer or pistols. You can always utilize the grenade stratagem if you need more bite.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
EDIT, hey what is this about a Relic SAG? Did I miss something in Chapter Approved? I basically lived at work November and December, any other goodies I missed out on?

The relic SAG, da souped-up shokka, is a 2d6 shots SAG. It comes from the dread waaagh detachment in vigilus defiant, you can read about what that does in general on 1d4chan ork tactics I think.

 owni wrote:
Hello all,
Thoughts on tank Busta load outs?
I'm running 4x5+squig deffskullz split in 2 trucks
Is it worth taking pistols or hammer?

How your running them is good, but also technically illegal if your doing matched play. Rule of three and stuff.

Ilgoth wrote:
Thank you for correcting! This is why I share.

Didn't realise the deff rolla had to be had into wargear, thank you for pointing it out.

Is bonebreaka's higher toughness and bonebreaka ram ability worth the increased cost when compared to battlewagon?

I haven't experimented a lot with a standard BW a lot yet but in my opinion, yes. T8 is great step up from T7, although that just might be my personal meta which is full of S4 attacks. And the D6 extra attacks are great too. It's just 20 extra points for a enormous (depending on meta) survivability and situational extra damage. Also being separate data sheets means you can take say 2 breakas and 2 regular BW's if you want. It's what I plan on doing once I have the models for it.

Mind you the T8 is not bonebreaker specific. Reqular battlewagon can have that for free as well. Bonebreaker pays 20 pts AND lower transport capacity for d6 attack ability.

Ah yeah 'Ard Case. Overlooked it.

Tough to say. I feel that 20 points on more attacks is decent banking, given you have formed the amount of bodies you planned to wield. Bonebreaka + CC nobz inside sounds like amazing fist to the enemy lines. Honestly now thinking about revamping the list to make two such forces.

Yeah not saying it's bad. Just that the T8 isn't exclusive and there are point for regular. Either for more passengers(add in some support char's and ammo runts and it gets crowded) or to fit into point/reserve limit. I had once change to regular just to keep 50% of army in reserve!

Good thing is that they look identical, so as long as you're clear to your opponent which version it is you're using then you can easily try out both.

I find the bonebreakas to be perfect for a 10+2 nob squad but if you want to start to stuff in character(s) in it as well then it's a bit trickier since your ammo runts are probably the first to go, meaning that actual nobz would die in the explosion. I've often found myself running 1 bonebreaka & 1 battlewagon (with deffrolla). Where the contents of the battlewagon might be a bit scarier but the actual bonebreaka is a monster in CC so you'll end up getting something spicy into combat

It is good way to confuse opponent which one to focus down. I keep it mind!

I posted my list after changing up from previous set up. Double battallion + vanguard structure. Allowed better unit sizes, but achieved the same CPs, so perfect swap. Feel free to post feedback. Liking the unit choices, and all the models in it. Having warbosses, made one more CC threat and one more towards dakka dakka dakka.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/769386.page#10297103

Ilgoth wrote:
It is good way to confuse opponent which one to focus down. I keep it mind!

I posted my list after changing up from previous set up. Double battallion + vanguard structure. Allowed better unit sizes, but achieved the same CPs, so perfect swap. Feel free to post feedback. Liking the unit choices, and all the models in it. Having warbosses, made one more CC threat and one more towards dakka dakka dakka.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/769386.page#10297103

I posted some thoughts and suggestions in that thread, overall I think you're looking good

PiñaColada wrote:

I posted some thoughts and suggestions in that thread, overall I think you're looking good

Thanks for the help you have given!

Has anyone tried grouping 3 squads of lootas up with the third squad coming in from a teleporta? Having possibly 210 autocannon shots from one shooting phase just seems ridiculous. The damage output from just one shooting phase when I was mathhammering it out was beautiful, lol.

 flaming tadpole wrote:
Has anyone tried grouping 3 squads of lootas up with the third squad coming in from a teleporta? Having possibly 210 autocannon shots from one shooting phase just seems ridiculous. The damage output from just one shooting phase when I was mathhammering it out was beautiful, lol.

As intriguing as that sounds, it's definitely too much overkill. Not even factoring points, that's a butt ton of CP expenditure on a unit that will shoot to death maybe a few units at best. Afterwards it's unwieldy as heck to use and you basically have to da Jump it afterwards to get any mileage out of them.

Ilgoth wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:

I posted some thoughts and suggestions in that thread, overall I think you're looking good

Thanks for the help you have given!

No problem bud, I really like the list building aspect of 40k so I'm happy to give some input. I also see that you've gotten another response taking you into another direction that might be worth looking into. Assuming you haven't already have all those models painted up I'd try to look at the list as a living thing that can evolve. Play a few games along the way (at 750/1000/1250/1500 etc) and see which elements of the army you really like and what you feel like you're missing. Overall deffskullz are a great choice but just remember to try and take advantage of all those free rerolls

Grimskul wrote:

 flaming tadpole wrote:
Has anyone tried grouping 3 squads of lootas up with the third squad coming in from a teleporta? Having possibly 210 autocannon shots from one shooting phase just seems ridiculous. The damage output from just one shooting phase when I was mathhammering it out was beautiful, lol.

As intriguing as that sounds, it's definitely too much overkill. Not even factoring points, that's a butt ton of CP expenditure on a unit that will shoot to death maybe a few units at best. Afterwards it's unwieldy as heck to use and you basically have to da Jump it afterwards to get any mileage out of them.

Ahem, excuse me but are you suggesting that this is too much dakka?

No such thing my good Ork. No, I'm saying it's too much WASTED dakka.

"Wasted" dakka is still music for ork ears, but point taken.

On a tactical level I agree with you, a bit too many eggs in that basket (which can already be a problem with 25 lootas)

 flaming tadpole wrote:
Has anyone tried grouping 3 squads of lootas up with the third squad coming in from a teleporta? Having possibly 210 autocannon shots from one shooting phase just seems ridiculous. The damage output from just one shooting phase when I was mathhammering it out was beautiful, lol.

I think you can only Mob Up a squad with a up to a squad of ten, preventing this.

 Rismonite wrote:

 flaming tadpole wrote:
Has anyone tried grouping 3 squads of lootas up with the third squad coming in from a teleporta? Having possibly 210 autocannon shots from one shooting phase just seems ridiculous. The damage output from just one shooting phase when I was mathhammering it out was beautiful, lol.

I think you can only Mob Up a squad with a up to a squad of ten, preventing this.

What do you mean? The restrictions (as far as I know) are only that 1 unit is 10 or more and the other unit is 10 or fewer, has this been FAQed somewhere?

PiñaColada wrote:

No problem bud, I really like the list building aspect of 40k so I'm happy to give some input. I also see that you've gotten another response taking you into another direction that might be worth looking into. Assuming you haven't already have all those models painted up I'd try to look at the list as a living thing that can evolve. Play a few games along the way (at 750/1000/1250/1500 etc) and see which elements of the army you really like and what you feel like you're missing. Overall deffskullz are a great choice but just remember to try and take advantage of all those free rerolls

Listbuilding is definately fun! I did see his post, but honestly dont feel reverting to brigade, as it means loss of CP and freedom with unit sizes.

I personally think there is definately the area of overkill with shots, as it is basically invested points that dont likely change the outcome. Being too much about one trick just calls for easy targeting. Not saying that lootas trick would be bad, but I feel its sub-optimal.

Idk, you only really need one good shooting phase out of them. If you have to da jump them to get them in an optimal position I think that's fine cause there isn't going to be much left of your opponents army afterwards, lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's a sample list I came up with for it.

 Grimskul wrote:

No such thing my good Ork. No, I'm saying it's too much WASTED dakka.

If your worried about this than split your fire. #allshotsmatter

There is no such thing as ‘overkill’ - just an insufficiency of targets.

Moriarty wrote:
There is no such thing as ‘overkill’ - just an insufficiency of targets.

At 2000 points? Not at all.

25 lootas with Mora Dakka and shooting twice have barely the average to bring down a land raider in a turn of shooting and the crusader is now just 264 points.

It's actually quite the opposite of what you said, you'll probably have too many targets for your lootas.

 Blackie wrote:

Moriarty wrote:
There is no such thing as ‘overkill’ - just an insufficiency of targets.

At 2000 points? Not at all.

25 lootas with Mora Dakka and shooting twice have barely the average to bring down a land raider in a turn of shooting and the crusader is now just 264 points.

It's actually quite the opposite of what you said, you'll probably have too many targets for your lootas.

Toughness 8 targets yes, Toughness 7 targets and below are going to get liquified.

Okay casual(ish) tournament was today. As usual here index flowchart banned. I had planned bad moon/evil sun/goff alliance but badruk didn't show up in FLGS in time so running out on cheap enough HQ's I had to swap in shock attack gun which meant death skull which meant goff became deathskull instead.

Battalion: bad moon

HQ1: weirdboy(da jump) 62
HQ2: weirdboy(da jump) 62
Troop1: 29xboyz(29xshoota)+nob(power klaw, slugga) 223
Troop2: 30xgrot 90
Troop3: 30xgrot 90
Heavy1: 15xloota 255
Heavy2: 2xmek gun(2xsmasha gun) 62

Battalion: deathskull

HQ1: big mek with shock attack gun 80
HQ2: warboss(big choppa, kustom shoota) 72
Troop1: 29xboyz(29xchoppa&slugga)+nob(power klaw, slugga) 223
Troop2: 10xgrot 30
Troop3: 10xgrot 30

Battalion: evil sun

HQ1: warboss(power klaw(killy klaw), WARLORD: brutal but kunning, kustom shoota) 80
HQ2: weirdboy(warpath) 62
Troop1: 29xboyz(29xchoppa&slugga)+nob(big choppa) 215
Troop2: 9xboyz(9xshoota)+nob(power klaw) 83
Troop3: 10xgrot 30

As tournament used CA2018 esque deployment which meant half the time my favourite warlord trait(kunning but brutal) doesn't work all that much I went for the standard killy boss instead. Let's see how that works out.

First up was ultramarines.



Scenarios mix of eternal war(1-4 objectives are such, if in enemy dz worth 4, your own dz 1, otherwise 2) and maelstrom(first turn 1, then 1+1 per objective controlled). He won roll to pick up deployment zone so I would be going first and he didn't succeed in seize. However due to huge amount of LOS blocking as usual here lootas basically had just devastators to shoot up(wonder why he put them there in the first place) and last one was blown by either smasha gun or SAG. Bad moon boyz da jumped and shot 4 scouts but last one survived(and got objective on his turn). On his turn I warned that if he does not shoot at them I'll use autopass morale and endless tide and bring them back. As he had never faced orks he was gratefull for the tip and killed them for good. I got stormtalons by lootas when they came out though I had to da jump lootas near his DZ on turn 3 to get LOS. Also got rid of inceptor's while I was that. They would march(yes that's right march) chasing his HQ's and rhino to get something on LOS. My warboss T2 tried solo deep strike and get both venerable dreadnought and his warlord(hopefully I would have been able to position warlord far enough to prevent heroic intervene and then consolidiate+fight again kill him. If not and I die strike once more was the plan) but failing charge even with reroll...

And btw pre-tournament I had asked can I reroll first 1 dice with one source and then if need be other and had showed FAQ entry regarding that and had been told I can use ork reroll and then CP reroll. So that's what I did having rolled 5 and 1 or 2 and then 2 but hoping for 5->6 with CP reroll failed. Ah well. Unsurprisingly he died.

Evil suns(all 40) had charged into termi captain who soaked damage easily and tactical squad that died but dreadnought came along and killed them.

In the end he had not much to do and I was struggling to get LOS to hiding stuff. I tried to smite his warlord but failed the cast roll(he had 1 wound left...) but his plasma hit failed to kill my 1w weirdboy in return for kill point.

Death skull warboss had taken one objective at one point thanks to ob sec. That was fun.

All in all as cards had been fairly quiet it wasn't that big difference but last 2 turns I got tons of good cards and 2 point ones at that and got 5 points from EW objectives so scored 17-3 win. Yey.

Game 2:



Oh beepity beepity beep. There was actually 2 double repulsor lists and this one might be the milder one.

This is brief. He got first turn. In deployment I had trouble. If I put lootas out of LOS I need da jump and then I have all the boyz(somehow I didn't deep strike figuring fight again etc are more valuable. Big mistake) can't use it. So I trusted my grot screen.

Turn 1 casualties: All bad moon grots. One unit of 10 grots. All lootas. 10 death skull. 11 bad moon...

Needless to say I was stunned at the firepower unleashed. 60 models out is no stranger to me in a turn. First time over 100 though.

Unsurprisingly this ended in 20-0. T5 I had nothing on board. Not automatic 20-0 but he had more than enough for 20-0 anyway without even playing turns 5 and 6.

My warlord in T1 did charge and kill repulsor. HAH! Blew up killing his warlord, 6 wounds to other repulsor and killed my warlord before he could fight again to intercessors he had declared charge(and who had eaten deth skull warboss charge). I forgot I could use the fight one last time to also pile in. I fought again lots of times(to not much effect except trap one squad of interceptors in h2h and force 2 dreadnoughts and jump pack guys to charge in and nearly wipe out evil suns. Those hadn't mobbed up to allow endless tide(I wanted to provide 3 units so at least one would survive). Here I wasn't anymore even thinking optimally so just went for kill stuff and tried to kill the big dreadnought and got to 2 wounds. Fell back, 1 dread and jump packers and 5 basic marines killed them again.

Other repulsor died to smites and smasha guns. Yey. SAG sucked as pretty much all tournament. Think my average S was around 5 and shots between 2 and 3.

Yep yep.

Game 3. NOT game I'm proud to describe. Goes high in my list of games where I snatch defeat from jaws of victory. I blame fatique.



Never heard of tantalus but apart from the contents of grotesques didn't worry me too much. I was feeling fairly confident. Especially when I got first turn right. Screwed bit on deployment and put both bad moons and evil suns on my right. Issue came when he deployed everything out of LOS from lootas and those orks wouldn't have much to do if I da jump lootas...

...however problem "solved" itself when he seized nad tantalus moved forward as did talos squadron. He killed some bad moon grots there and blew out one smasha gun(12 disintegrator shots has funny effect of doing that). However I retaliated by wiping out talos squadron he had been confident on(he hadn't played 8th ed orks so underestimated them). With 3 shots and first salvo leaving just 1 plus 1 down to 1 wound I split fire as much as I possibly could(5 lootas) to tantalus as I didn't WANT to kill all talos. I wanted one alive and wounded for death skull warboss to charge and kill for blood and guts. Alas then dices rolled super hot and I would have killed 2+ talos with ease. Also dented tantalus bit to which warboss then charged with lucky 10" charge wounding bit more and scoring objective(progressive per turn. This surprised him as unsurprisingly he didn't expect HQ to be obsec). Bad moons had jumped left and did charge to venom killing it(blood and guts) bringing in some wracks.

T2 grotesques and cronos surrounded death skull warboss(some overkill...) and also with 9 wracks charged bad moons. They took heavy casualties and came back(stupidly on same area). Mandrakes deep striked but failed to charge my 30 evil sunz though did shoot 8 evil sunz from mob of 10.

I mobbed evil sunz and not needing da jump charged grotesques. Warlord went to help with grotesques. I got 3 shots at lootas again and fired at grotesques but for some reason opted to "save CP. Warlord can sort them" and did NOT shoot again. Thought more dakka would be better next turn...I failed the charge despite trying to again CP reroll 5 to 6 in desperation. At least bad moons got in and kept them from charging warlord but died in process.

I tried to da jump evil sun boyz there and charge(tunnel vision. I should have went to one of his corners with 5 wracks and venom and objective instead). Warlord finally charged wracks. Some HQ heroic intervened. Killed 1 and wounded one near dead(6+++). Died, attacked again and finished last. Boyz charged into wracks but eventually died leaving 1 and 2 left. Drat(squad was near dead. Mandrakes had intercepted and struct first killing TONS. Maybe should have let grotesques do that to bad moons instead).

But overall I was making TONS of errors here. I lost like 5-6 vp's from simply not positioning model near objective. Fall back grots from his warlord. NOT go to objective etc etc etc. I forgot twice da jump(2 vp at least) and worst of all...I forgot death skull boyz into reserve so they died there. Oops. They could have taken another 2 vp from landing into take and hold(worth extra vp due to scenario rule) and as he unlikely would have got them killed(both our armies were fairly spent so 30 boyz would have been tough nuts to remove from there) likely more(1 per objective per turn) and gave him free kill point. Sigh.

So...Lost 7-14. Score could easily have been reversed without all those silly mistakes.

Next tournament I swear I don't take that loota unit. It's effective yes but damn all that dice rolling! Rolling easily 100+ shots with them in a turn when I roll 3 for shots is grueling.

Also the terrain here makes those long range heavy units bit hard and if I use da jump for them don't use da jump for boyz etc. So either I need to deepstrike them or have non-foot slogging boyz.

And change of pace would be fun.

tneva82 wrote:
-SNIP-

Cool of you to share Tneva, shame you didn't get that last one! Also that BT list sure puts out a lot of dakka but I got to be honest, it's the type of list that'd get stomped on by a proper IK list, so it's just a luck of the draw type deal.

Personally I completely get your point about lootas but I'd almost go further where I wouldn't really want to take them in tournaments because of Agents of Vect. I've twice now seen Orks lists been neutered by that strat and I'm just not sure if it's even worth the risk. It's not like DE or that strat are uncommon sights at tournaments

Oh forgot to mention low's were banned in this tournament(and generally this seemed to be liked on)

tneva82 wrote:
Oh forgot to mention low's were banned in this tournament(and generally this seemed to be liked on)

Ah, then that second list makes a lot more sense IMO, I was thinking there was a real daredevil there willing to risk facing IK. Because if that happened both repulsors and a couple of dreadnoughts would be melted T1 most likely.

But if people are okay with a legal army being completely banned from an event even at "full scale" points then that speaks poorly for how its balanced/percieved to be balanced.

The tournament he talks about was aimed more towards casual and friendly, but still use matched play -rules to allow newcomers to try semi-competetive playing. Aka first step towards more competetive scene. So explains unusual rules.

tneva82 I think your lost just lacks overall mobility. Board control is hard to achieve without it (one thing why I root for Stormboyz infantry and mechanized lists).

Hey guys.

First time posting in as long as I remember. I was hoping to get some practiced eyes on a 2K list I'm taking to a tourney this weekend. Been playing with orks for ages and am pretty happy with the codex overall, minus the slashing of our HQ selections. Index choices allowed.



The basic idea is that the skarboys sit in the wagons, which in turn sit infront of the lootas and grots. First turn either the shoota boys or the lootas mob up, depending on if I need firepower from the lootas or to jump in 40 shoota boys into the enemy backline. The boss does usual boss stuff, keeping in the cover of either the big wagons or the scrapjets and dragsta while the mek hops around giving invuls to as many of the tanks as I can manage. Or the shootaboys if I feel that they are going to be the more important threat. I've had much sucess with da shokk shoota lads as I like to call them.

The tourney usually has a healthy dose of knights, with the occasional Magnus causing issues. Other than that i shouldn't have too much trouble fulfilling ITC missions.

Thoughts?

Because of Knights you simply don't have any chance. Even a double tankbusta bomb can't put a dent in them. Your Biker Boss won't ever get close enough to melee the knights and the Lootas won't scratch the knights either.