Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Painboy on bike w relic klaw makes the painboy actually a tough unit.
Plus warboss on bike the relic BC
Trikeboss w his klaw
And zhardsnark

That’s a nice little tough unit
Throw in a pair of scrapjets for overwatching eating melee too.

 Jidmah wrote:
There is not direct connection between 'ard case and the roof bit.
It's a nice way to clarify which wagons are open topped and which aren't, but by no means necessary.

For example, you can have an open topped battlewagon with klaw, 4 big shootas and a killkannon. You cannot represent that with the official model without putting the roof on.

Just make sure your opponent can identify which wagon has which upgrades easily.

Yes, and to add confusion, the BW hull has separate front and rear roof sections, and the big turret mount (which looks armoured) can be added to either roof section. That's great for modelling diversity, especially as most options can be done without gluing either roof section and so can be changed from one game to the next, but not great for ork players or their opponents trying to identify vehicles on the table.

The sensible thing to do is to be consistent with how you represent upgrades on all your BWs, and tell your opponent if it's at all non-obvious.

Can the Chinork Warkopta's 'Scoutin' ahead' rule be used in the first turn; or does it count as reinforcements as per the Tactical Reserves from chapter approved?

Loaded with tankbustas it would be a fearsome unit to place in between the enemies lines. But I am not sure if I want to wait for turn two to do so.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

Technically i probably should run both, theyre each ~100pts and the painboy is an added layer of protection rather than just a better one.
My main beef with it is the mandatory pk. Painboys never hit anything for me. 3 attacks hitting on 4s blows, not to mention the moment hes able to swing everyone dogpiles on him lol (KFF too)

I think Painboys have 4 attacks IIFC. Hitting on 4s isn't ideal but the relic klaw can help mitigate the problem.

I wouldn't bother taking him on a bike though, he's way too expensive and can't heal a character if he rides further than 5 inches.

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
Can the Chinork Warkopta's 'Scoutin' ahead' rule be used in the first turn; or does it count as reinforcements as per the Tactical Reserves from chapter approved?

Loaded with tankbustas it would be a fearsome unit to place in between the enemies lines. But I am not sure if I want to wait for turn two to do so.

Does it start on board after deployment? No? Then it's reinforcement. Nothing that doesn't start on board during deployment and isn't in transport can come to the board on T1. Regardless of is it terminator teleport, grey hunters outflanking or warkopta's scouting ahead.

Put them on evil sunz and you have 24" advancing platform though. IF that doesn't reach where you wish then on what 10'x6' boards you are playing on

Noticed that they updated the point cost for the index units Skorchas, Warbuggies and Wartrakks. A bit strange that the price for the Biker-boss went up thou.
https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/warhammer_40000_chapter_approved_2018_en-1.pdf

Because the Biker Boss competes with the new Wartrike, they gotta shift their new shiny things.

Uh what? Where have they changed cost of war boss on bike?

 acme2468 wrote:
Uh what? Where have they changed cost of war boss on bike?

Chapter Approved, it's a book that GW has promised to supply us with from time to time to keep something resembling balance in our game. Like updates to a video game.

 Rismonite wrote:

 acme2468 wrote:
Uh what? Where have they changed cost of war boss on bike?

Chapter Approved, it's a book that GW has promised to supply us with from time to time to keep something resembling balance in our game. Like updates to a video game.

I think he's asking where in the CA FAQ does it say the bikerboss went up in points, which unless I'm completely blind, he didn't.

 flaming tadpole wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:

 acme2468 wrote:
Uh what? Where have they changed cost of war boss on bike?

Chapter Approved, it's a book that GW has promised to supply us with from time to time to keep something resembling balance in our game. Like updates to a video game.

I think he's asking where in the CA FAQ does it say the bikerboss went up in points, which unless I'm completely blind, he didn't.

.oh drunk, ignore me sorriez

Nora wrote:
Noticed that they updated the point cost for the index units Skorchas, Warbuggies and Wartrakks. A bit strange that the price for the Biker-boss went up thou.
https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/warhammer_40000_chapter_approved_2018_en-1.pdf

There's no biker boss in this link, only old buggies, skorchas, wartrakks and rack of rokkits.

 Jidmah wrote:
How is a 5++ only slightly better?

AP-3 means you don't get a save, so there is a 19.44% chance to not die from a single plasma shot if you have a pain boy nearby.
A KFF has a 33.33% chance to save both wounds.

Against AP-2, bikers have a 32.87% chance to save one or two wounds, but that is still worse than the 33.33% chance to save both since you still lose more models on average.

It's 30.55% to save at least one wound - not 19.44. Of course, higher damage weapons get this chance lower. So, it mostly depends on what you face. But i honestly see ap1 and plasma most often. Not even speaking of mortal wounds. Thus, a painboy is generally speaking better for durability. He is also slightly better as a character. The drawback is that he's not hq.

 koooaei wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
How is a 5++ only slightly better?

AP-3 means you don't get a save, so there is a 19.44% chance to not die from a single plasma shot if you have a pain boy nearby.
A KFF has a 33.33% chance to save both wounds.

Against AP-2, bikers have a 32.87% chance to save one or two wounds, but that is still worse than the 33.33% chance to save both since you still lose more models on average.

It's 30.55% to save at least one wound - not 19.44. Of course, higher damage weapons get this chance lower. So, it mostly depends on what you face. But i honestly see ap1 and plasma most often. Not even speaking of mortal wounds. Thus, a painboy is generally speaking better for durability. He is also slightly better as a character. The drawback is that he's not hq.

Or you could be like me and just not take either Its been my experience that everyone expects us to take painboyz and Big Mekz with KFFs. My last tournament, one of my opponents even had an IG (Mordian?) hit squad that can target characters and was extremely pissed when I told him I didn't have any Painboyz/KFF Big Mekz and he would be forced to get in range of my long range Big Mek with SAG or to attempt to pick off my warboss on warbike who was way to quick to be targeted by 24' range plasma guns.

literally only snipers ive come across is Harliquin related and his luck with them are hilariously bad.
My local group is weird lol. Part of me is annoyed orks dont have character snipers unless we are silly enough to put a particular kulture warlord trait on a SAG, but then again...ork snipers? wat?
We dont shoot 1-2 highly accurate shots, we shoot walls of dakka!

 Vineheart01 wrote:
literally only snipers ive come across is Harliquin related and his luck with them are hilariously bad.
My local group is weird lol. Part of me is annoyed orks dont have character snipers unless we are silly enough to put a particular kulture warlord trait on a SAG, but then again...ork snipers? wat?
We dont shoot 1-2 highly accurate shots, we shoot walls of dakka!

The Celestial Lions would like a word or six with you about that.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
literally only snipers ive come across is Harliquin related and his luck with them are hilariously bad.
My local group is weird lol. Part of me is annoyed orks dont have character snipers unless we are silly enough to put a particular kulture warlord trait on a SAG, but then again...ork snipers? wat?
We dont shoot 1-2 highly accurate shots, we shoot walls of dakka!

I always wished they gave kommandos the option to take snipers. Even if they can't hit crap would be still be fairly useful for camping objectives and stuff.

 flaming tadpole wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
literally only snipers ive come across is Harliquin related and his luck with them are hilariously bad.
My local group is weird lol. Part of me is annoyed orks dont have character snipers unless we are silly enough to put a particular kulture warlord trait on a SAG, but then again...ork snipers? wat?
We dont shoot 1-2 highly accurate shots, we shoot walls of dakka!

I always wished they gave kommandos the option to take snipers. Even if they can't hit crap would be still be fairly useful for camping objectives and stuff.

Yep. I miss my 7th ed lobbas...cheapest snipers in the game.

I don't know, I'd much rather get grot sharpshootas than any sort of ork boy sniper. That was probably my number one wish for a new kit snuck in there after the buggies as a surprise. I didn't think that we'd get them but I would've been so happy. Just make them identical to IG ratlings (or very similar)

My dream in general is just to add a bit more meat to the grot range. Give us an option to take an 'eavy weapon team in each grot squad (or per 10). Those weapons could be: a lobba, a supa shoota, a rokkit launcha. Give the platforms a special rule where they can't be fire if they moved. Suddenly we can get something out of those backline grot units.

Then again, I thought it was a real shame that grots don't get the kultur, almost all the kultur are multi-faceted. They could just signify that grots only get one of those bonuses. So maybe evil sunz grots don't get the penalty for advancing and shooting assault weapons and nothing else.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
literally only snipers ive come across is Harliquin related and his luck with them are hilariously bad.
My local group is weird lol. Part of me is annoyed orks dont have character snipers unless we are silly enough to put a particular kulture warlord trait on a SAG, but then again...ork snipers? wat?
We dont shoot 1-2 highly accurate shots, we shoot walls of dakka!

There is a better alternative. A death skull biker mek with dual KMblastas. He can profit from the trait and surprise one or two people.

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
literally only snipers ive come across is Harliquin related and his luck with them are hilariously bad.
My local group is weird lol. Part of me is annoyed orks dont have character snipers unless we are silly enough to put a particular kulture warlord trait on a SAG, but then again...ork snipers? wat?
We dont shoot 1-2 highly accurate shots, we shoot walls of dakka!

There is a better alternative. A death skull biker mek with dual KMblastas. He can profit from the trait and surprise one or two people.

Bike one with relig SAG and kmblasta? Albeit extra 16 pts and you'll be hitting on 6 with SAG if you have to move but 2d6 shots. More hits than KM anyway.

tneva82 wrote:

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
literally only snipers ive come across is Harliquin related and his luck with them are hilariously bad.
My local group is weird lol. Part of me is annoyed orks dont have character snipers unless we are silly enough to put a particular kulture warlord trait on a SAG, but then again...ork snipers? wat?
We dont shoot 1-2 highly accurate shots, we shoot walls of dakka!

There is a better alternative. A death skull biker mek with dual KMblastas. He can profit from the trait and surprise one or two people.

Bike one with relig SAG and kmblasta? Albeit extra 16 pts and you'll be hitting on 6 with SAG if you have to move but 2d6 shots. More hits than KM anyway.

16pts and 2CPs...(as I am assuming it would be the second relic, the kill klaw is toooo good to let it go).

Is there a discussion about the merits of choppa/slugga vs shoota boyz? Mixing in the same in a unit? Generally which are most useful?

I think the consensus is having units of 20 sluggas / 10 shootas and remove the shootas first when taking casualties. Reasoning is that you rarely have more than 20 boyz in combat, so the missing attack doesn't hurt, while gaining some shooting.

For bad moons, shoota boyz are a great tool to remove screens, and some people prefer using shoota boyz as jump targets since they still do some damage even if they fail their charge.

 Jidmah wrote:
I think the consensus is having units of 20 sluggas / 10 shootas and remove the shootas first when taking casualties. Reasoning is that you rarely have more than 20 boyz in combat, so the missing attack doesn't hurt, while gaining some shooting.

For bad moons, shoota boyz are a great tool to remove screens, and some people prefer using shoota boyz as jump targets since they still do some damage even if they fail their charge.

I\m on that camp. Also it allows you to actually shoot with more ease during deep strike. You don't neccessarily WANT to shoot at the target you are about to charge least he pull models closest making your 9" charge into 10" or more...Shootas can shoot chaff elsewhere. Every little wound helps.

And bad moon shoota unit can try to da jump and deal with chaff by shooting at one direction, charge another. If that 58% charge succeed you could clear chaff more than by just choppas. It's not just the 2 shots but 18" that's handy. 12" you might not even reach with all.

Yeah a 20/10 split of sluggas & shootas is basically as efficient as one can make a boyz unit IMO. A full shoota unit is pretty damn effective as a street cleaner when used in the manner tneva mentioned above though.

Boyz play pretty different depending on which kultur you're using though, so unit composition is largely depending on that

We'll see how bikes work out if they get any changes in the next FAQ (with lower point costs on SM bikes and the new beta bolter rule ork bikes need some love)

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:

Technically i probably should run both, theyre each ~100pts and the painboy is an added layer of protection rather than just a better one.
My main beef with it is the mandatory pk. Painboys never hit anything for me. 3 attacks hitting on 4s blows, not to mention the moment hes able to swing everyone dogpiles on him lol (KFF too)

I think Painboys have 4 attacks IIFC. Hitting on 4s isn't ideal but the relic klaw can help mitigate the problem.

I wouldn't bother taking him on a bike though, he's way too expensive and can't heal a character if he rides further than 5 inches.

I rarely have this issue with the biker painboy. His fnp works fine. If I got first there is usually no one to heal and he is able to cross the board regardless and get in range of the da jumped boy squad for more fnp goodness. If I go second I still can get fnp in any hits and might miss out healing a character but it’s still worth the mobility and toughness/wound increase.

Is there any point in orks using non-brigade/battalion detachments? Other than Command for the Super w/ Kulture anyway.

The insane difference in CP generation kinda steers me away from them. Why a Brigade is 5CP but a Spearhead is 1 is beyond me when most armies can fill a Brigade minimum for roughly the same price as a Spearhead minimum.
Im half tempted to try a full mechanized list, as in no boyz/grotz period. Only things "on foot" would be meks or tankbustas inside the vehicle. But that CP difference....

There is no reason to ever use the non Battalion/Brigade detachments for any reason, the CP swing is just too harsh. The SOLE reason to use a Spearhead detachment is if for some reason your Leman Russes MUST have Objsec.

Yeah i figured.

Kinda wish detachments yielded different CPs depending on PL/Points sunk into it. I imagine that would throw alot of balance out of whack though