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 koooaei wrote:
I'll try to proxy the naught some time but stll feel that 10 meganobz would be better. For almost the same points. Meganobz are what I can suggest for every ork list tbh. They are simply good. Even if they fail a charge, they have a bit of shooting to thin down bauble wrap or some key infantry units. And the staying power is somewhat higher than that of a naught. And meganobz in cover are hard to chew through even for plasma. Means if you get a squad somewhere, they'll be useful for ground control even if the enemy is already not there.

Are you factoring in the T8? Also you can get a 6++ for free if he’s Deathskullz (not to mention the increase in damage output with DS). I’m sure 10 MANZ is okay but I Tellyporta my Gorkanaut in and it’s very survivable. Good opponents screen properly, which means it’s usually on the end of one of my flanks. Laughably, I run Burnaboyz inside because they’re the cheapest infantry unit that can fit; and they can grab objectives. The Gork is fantastic in combat and pretty good in shooting too. Not as good as the Mork but good. If you’re doing typical Ork stuff and trying to pin your opponent in their deployment zone, having the Gork show up T2 just as you’re piling out of your Battlewagons can seal the deal.

You could put kommandos in the belly of a gorkanaut. With no upgrades they are 40 points.

I usually only tend to put a mek, wierdboy or warboss in my naughts.

russellmoo wrote:
You could put kommandos in the belly of a gorkanaut. With no upgrades they are 40 points.

I usually only tend to put a mek, wierdboy or warboss in my naughts.

That’s a good point; and they get +2 for being in cover too. Just anecdotal but in my experience, players tend to place objectives in cover. And buys me another body in there even with a Nob+PK.

 koooaei wrote:
Tried loota bomb and a relik sag mek in a 2250 game vs necrons with 4 doomsday arks, immortals, some wraiths and destroyers

Loota bomb was quite good. Wrecked an ark and a bunch of wraiths first turn. Second turn was a bit less impressive cause enemy saves were super hot but 3d turn they wrecked 2 more arks. Basically, made the game.

Relik sag mek didn't feel to be worth it vs crons. Was not worth using vs arks, wraiths had 3++ and all he did in the first 2 turns was kill a couple immortals. Even used vigilus 2cp shoot again strat and killed...1 extra immortal for 2 cp. 3d turn he killed 2 destroyers though. Anywayz, i'm not sure he's worth the hassle. 2 cp to simply get this sag...and than random str. Ap5 is nice but no invul on something worth shooting is sooooo rare. What is he supposed to shoot down? Leman russes? Yeah, now let's roll high enough str and bnumber of shots to get those wounds in. I'd rather spend this oh so needed cp elsewhere.

Also finally tried 3 deepstriking deffdreads. Was also a bit underwhelmed. It's so hard to find a plsce to deepstrike them. Also, mellee vehicles with bases don't really work all that amazing with terrain features. No shooting at all. 3 chances to charge with 1 deepatrike though. All in all, 10 meganobz tend to work better for me. They also have 40 shots which is nice.

Necrons are probably THE worst targets for SAG and traktor kannon(whose extra damage special rule basically improves their invulnerable save...). Quantum shield means few high D shots is very bad idea. Lootas though necrons are pretty much ideal targets for it. Expensive lowish T vehicles whose defence sucks vs D2 weapons? Oh yeah! Loota all the way.

If I was to play vs necrons I would not take relic SAG. BTW how does tournaments etc do the special detachments in general so far? Are they fixed at the list creation or are they like relics you can swap them between games?


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 The Shrike wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
I'll try to proxy the naught some time but stll feel that 10 meganobz would be better. For almost the same points. Meganobz are what I can suggest for every ork list tbh. They are simply good. Even if they fail a charge, they have a bit of shooting to thin down bauble wrap or some key infantry units. And the staying power is somewhat higher than that of a naught. And meganobz in cover are hard to chew through even for plasma. Means if you get a squad somewhere, they'll be useful for ground control even if the enemy is already not there.

Are you factoring in the T8? Also you can get a 6++ for free if he’s Deathskullz (not to mention the increase in damage output with DS). I’m sure 10 MANZ is okay but I Tellyporta my Gorkanaut in and it’s very survivable. Good opponents screen properly, which means it’s usually on the end of one of my flanks. Laughably, I run Burnaboyz inside because they’re the cheapest infantry unit that can fit; and they can grab objectives. The Gork is fantastic in combat and pretty good in shooting too. Not as good as the Mork but good. If you’re doing typical Ork stuff and trying to pin your opponent in their deployment zone, having the Gork show up T2 just as you’re piling out of your Battlewagons can seal the deal.

6+++ is not free though as it takes away OTHER traits like evil sun to give you 8" charge rather than 9" from DS.

One quick question, does the weirdly get +1 to cast if the orks are inside a veichle ?

No. They are not on board, they are not with#n x" to anything

The weirdboy doesn't get +1 to cast and can't even cast powers whatsoever, even in an open topped vehicle

I think hes was referring to other orks inside vehicles within 10".

But yeah, stuff inside transports cannot be measured to.

Everyone seen the marines no da jumping within 12" unit? Another key strategy bites the dust?

Sorry if it wasn't clear. I meant if the weirboy get +1 to cast being outside a vehicle but there are orks in veichle nearby .

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Everyone seen the marines no da jumping within 12" unit? Another key strategy bites the dust?

It's a captain... I don't think I have ever set up a unit within charge range of a space marine captain in 8th.

I think he was referring to the captain as a way of pushing back our da jumping orks.

This also points out another codex weakness, orks have a harder time than imperial armies when it comes to assassinating characters.

Snikrot should have a rule that allows him to just pop up 3" from an enemy character . You might actually see him on the table if they gave him the tools he needed to get into close combat.

 Jidmah wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Everyone seen the marines no da jumping within 12" unit? Another key strategy bites the dust?

It's a captain... I don't think I have ever set up a unit within charge range of a space marine captain in 8th.

Erm. Yes the captain. And their rank and file units 'Infiltrators'.

russellmoo wrote:
I think he was referring to the captain as a way of pushing back our da jumping orks.

This also points out another codex weakness, orks have a harder time than imperial armies when it comes to assassinating characters.

Snikrot should have a rule that allows him to just pop up 3" from an enemy character . You might actually see him on the table if they gave him the tools he needed to get into close combat.

You are absolutely correct except that I wsdnt referring to the captain only in this instance.

What's the specific rule? Cuz if it just refers to deepstriking, then Da Jump is still able to get within that 12".

"Enemy units that are set up on the battlefield as reinforcements cannot be set up within 12" of this unit." So Da Jump (and anything that starts on the table but teleports up) should still work.

It's a lot harsher on GSC, but those guys don't have camo cloaks, so you only have to go through five 2W/2+ (I imagine they'll scout deploy into cover) at -1 to hit (smoke will likely come down turn one).

if its worded to mention reserves in any way, Da Jump doesnt care. Same reason why Da Jump works turn1 in the first place, no reserve mechanic involved.

Space marines allready have ds mitigation with their auspecs. The new strictly deepstrike denial rule just cements it.

Auspex is worded in exactly the same way and operates on Da Jumping units. Await a quick FAQ but don't be surprised if it affects da jumped units.

 Emicrania wrote:
Sorry if it wasn't clear. I meant if the weirboy get +1 to cast being outside a vehicle but there are orks in veichle nearby .

Again, no. You cannot measure to the Orks inside the vehicle since the orks are "removed from the battlefield".

What have been player's experiences with stormboyz? Anyone trying to run them competitively, or do they lack the durability to be a competitive choice?

One issue they suffer is from lack of advance+assault naturally with no fast waaagh provider so you need to stringline if you want the T1 assault with them. For T2 assault there's less difference in ability for them and for boyz to charge anyway.

Wazbom question:

Teleport Mega Blasta's special ability. Am i correct that when a model loses a wound, their actual characteristic isnt changed correct? So a Teleport Mega Blasta's special effect literally cannot work on W6+ targets?

Kitbashing a wazbom and for some reason im second guessing how that rule works. Which changes it from complete garbage to really dang good imo if i did read it wrong (as in, what i said above is not true)

Yeah, unfortunately that's correct. Wound characteristic is the amount of wounds it says on the datasheet, not remaining wounds.

The tellyport weaponry are fun but rarely all that useful. Not worth the 12 point upgrade IMO, even if you get more guaranteed shots

Yeah i figured.
Number of shots and the range of damage means usually you are going to kill said multiwound model thats 5 or less anyway. A model with 5 might be alive, but thats a 1/6th chance to finish off probably 1 wound anyway.

I wouldn't be surprised with they do FAQ it to apply to Da Jump. GW seems like they'd prefer everyone to stay in their deployment zones and stick to ranged attacks.

tneva82 wrote:
One issue they suffer is from lack of advance+assault naturally with no fast waaagh provider so you need to stringline if you want the T1 assault with them. For T2 assault there's less difference in ability for them and for boyz to charge anyway.

Though you could add a Warboss on bike from Index to help.

That's if index is allowed. Here it's not.

Well, you could give the wartrike the Waaagh! Aura as warlord trait if you really want to make it work.

that's putting awfully lot resources into the unit...

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Auspex is worded in exactly the same way and operates on Da Jumping units. Await a quick FAQ but don't be surprised if it affects da jumped units.

I've had a look at them and discussed them with some of our marine players.

They are PL 5 for 5 and PL11 for 10. Which means they are probably ~20 points per model, for a single primaris marine with a bolter. Not the 30" AP-1 primaris bolter, but a regular one with a slightly better chance to wound.

All the marine players agree that they are great troops in pure marine armies, since they lack the means to deny deep strikes which other armies can archive with their throw-way troops like cultists, pox walkers, gretchin, etc.
However, for soups those infiltrators don't hold a candle to the loyal 32, as each infiltrator costs as much as five(!) guardsmen who can easily cover just as much area as the one infiltrator with his 12" bubble and have five 5+ wounds rather than two 3+ wounds that get killed by single loota shot.

Of course, all this is assuming that you can just plug them into any space marine detachment are not limited to field them a some special detachment.

So yes, pure space marines will have a great protection against deep strikes, but they are still expensive primaris marines and most likely standing in front of their army rather than hidden in a ruin somewhere like helblasters. And it's not like any of the space marines are are difficult to beat unless they soup in knights, guard or custodes.