No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]

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**Vineheart01**

yeah....technically it would because for transports the unit inside doesnt care about the kulture since they technically dont benefit from it, due to it being a range-from-another-unit thing.
But that is like the ONE THING the Open Topped rule does transfer is +1 to hit, which is a modifier and not excluded.

**Coh Magnussen**

I try to charge the battlewagon into combat, then have the grots use their pistols to shoot into whatever the battlewagon is deff-rollin'. Once the battlewagon pops (hopefully exploding, but so far no joy) they end up getting slaughtered in close combat.

It's terrible but super funny and then when they actually do something, a Grot Hero is born! (Git Snivel once wounded a demon prince in close combat before most of his fellow gretchin died and he ran away, but his legend grew and now he leads a Kill-Team of his very own)

**russellmoo**

So I have been trying to decide whether to run 2 units of 5 flashgitz or one unit of 10. There are advantages to both, my question is which one is better? Have at it warbosses.

**flandarz**

I think the 2 of 5 is better, if only because you can get Gitfindas on both Kaptins, which means more reliable shooting. It also doubles your chances of shooting again via rolling a 6.

**mhalko1**

I posted my most recent list I played against a horde daemon list. It absolutely wrecked. You can find it in the army list section but I took a list with 2 morks and a gork at 2k expecting to fight a big bug nid list and got scared when a horde daemon list was put on the table.

Even still I may have tabled by turn 3/4. double shooting gork with more dakka wiped 20+ daemons a turn. 18 shots proccing on 5+ for DDD and shooting twice. the morks were shooting at seekers since the big monster characters were hiding. daemon prince and belakor. Also ran trukk boys with shootas and DDD was helping them kill around 5 or 6 a turn. thanks mainly to t3 daemons. SSAG was a little wasted and had to shoot at seekers also because they are 2W each. but he got the daemon prince too close and I had the DS warlord trait and was able to snipe him even with nurgle disgustingly resilient.

Overall I started out scared but my DDD extra hits were proccing like crazy and putting out so much damage.

**tneva82**

flandarz wrote:
I think the 2 of 5 is better, if only because you can get Gitfindas on both Kaptins, which means more reliable shooting. It also doubles your chances of shooting again via rolling a 6.

You might roll 6's more often but only half will shoot then so in the end it's about same.

But the big decider is do you expect to use stratagems for them or not. If you have grots for them and no lootas to grot screen then 10 makes sense to protect them from shooting. Or if you expect to have to shoot at -2 or worse targets at which point more dakka is more efficient for 10 strong units.

**Vineheart01**

Theres also the Loot It! stratagem. They have 4+ armor, if their wheels go boom they can go 3+. If its all 10, it happens at once, but if its 2x5 then half of them have to go without for a turn.

**Moriarty**

As you can elect to shoot parts of the unit at different targets, 10 would be best. Smaller units might suffer more from Ld tests (where did they get the FG Ld figure from?) and take up more CP.

**tneva82**

Moriarty wrote:
As you can elect to shoot parts of the unit at different targets, 10 would be best. Smaller units might suffer more from Ld tests (where did they get the FG Ld figure from?) and take up more CP.

Uuuh small units is good for LD. By the time you suffer enough casualties morale is worry you are already dead.

5 flash git suffers 1 casualty. d6+1 vs LD6. No big deal.
5 flash gits suffer 4 casualty. d6+4 vs LD6. You lose your last one on 3+.

10 flash gits suffer 1 casualty. Okay no casualties.
10 flash gits suffer 4 casualties. d6+4 vs LD6. You suffer 1-4 extra casualties on 3+.

And of course either way you can have say unit of boyz nearby to get extra LD.

Reasons to be smaller units would be survivability(opponent can't just fire one unit and potentially wipe them all. And split fire is either going to leave survivors or wasted firepower) and ability to be at 2 different places. One unit can only cover one area. 2 units can cover 2.

Stratagem efficiency is biggest reason for big unit and that is lot dependant on what you aim to use them for and what your army is. Grot screen usage is irrelevant if you have bad moon lootas around as they are the priority for the grot screen for example. And if you aren't going to be shooting at -2 to hit or worse targets more dakka is waste of CP for them as well.

**Jidmah**

When you plan to put flash gits inside a transport, units of 5 are just better because you get more kaptins - you can't use stratagems on them unless the wagon pops and then they are dead meat anyways. If someone already bothered to destroy their ride, he is not going to ignore them afterwards. If you are not running a freeboota force, stratagems are out of question anyways, since grot shield would require you to bring freeboota grots to shield them and loot it only works if the transport is a freeboota transport.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Coh Magnussen wrote:
I try to charge the battlewagon into combat, then have the grots use their pistols to shoot into whatever the battlewagon is deff-rollin'. Once the battlewagon pops (hopefully exploding, but so far no joy) they end up getting slaughtered in close combat.

The thing is, pistols only ever matter when you are still in combat during your next shooting phase. No one in their right mind will stay in combat with a deff roll unless they can kill it. In either case, pistols won't matter.
The only useful passengers for battlewagons are tankbustas and flash gits.

**tneva82**

IF somebody is bringing that many fg's he's likely bringing freebootas anyway. FG aren't all that good outside fb anyway.

And they are dead meat outside only if you don't have those grots.

**Jidmah**

How did those gretchin get closer to the shooting unit than a battlewagon?

**tneva82**

Jidmah wrote:
How did those gretchin get closer to the shooting unit than a battlewagon?

Walking alongside? You have battlewagon filled with shooty unit(s). Rushing full speed into combat isn't exactly best ideas. Stand back and shoot. If your ride gets blown to bits get behind the grot line. You don't even need whole bw to be behind grots for that to work.

Or yeah let's rush into combat with shooty unit ASAP...That's going to end up spectacularly well

Flashgits aren't exactly melee power house so the further you are from enemy the better it is.

**Nym**

Jidmah wrote:
(...)Loot it only works if the transport is a freeboota transport.

Loot It! actually works on any vehicle, not just <KULTUR> vehicles.

**Jidmah**

tneva82 wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
How did those gretchin get closer to the shooting unit than a battlewagon?

Walking alongside? You have battlewagon filled with shooty unit(s). Rushing full speed into combat isn't exactly best ideas. Stand back and shoot. If your ride gets blown to bits get behind the grot line. You don't even need whole bw to be behind grots for that to work.

Or yeah let's rush into combat with shooty unit ASAP...That's going to end up spectacularly well Flashgits aren't exactly melee power house so the further you are from enemy the better it is.

Sorry for assuming that you have fielded flash gits at least once. I fall for you actually knowing what you are talking about all the time.

"Stand back and shoot" is such an awesome idea for 24" guns, I wish I would have thought about that one myself.

**PiñaColada**

That 24" range is why I personally never liked using Flash Gitz. Their weapons are too strong for you to want to fire them at chaff so you'll want to move forward, but being within 24" of a juicy target means you're probably 10" away from chaff that can tie you up (same issue with the shokkjump dragsta, although that one has it worse).

I'm fine with their guns being heavy but the range should be 36" IMO, I'd much rather have that over a point drop. Although, to be fair, I'm not playing Freebootas so I'm not getting their max potential anyways.

**Greenson Tide**

Coh Magnussen wrote:
flandarz wrote:
More useful Grots would be nice. Right now, all they're good for is generating CP and Shielding Lootas.

Even just giving the non-infantry grots the existing kultures would be nice... Kanz and grot tanks deserve a chance to see the field! (though if they gave the infantry grots kultur too, my frebootin' grotzwagon crew could be hitting on 2's... talk about dangerous in large numbers!)

I am really hoping that one day they will bring in a Grot Rebels clan in a White Dwarf magazine or something. Make them where the only non-Grot infantry units they can only take are HQs then give the their own culture and allow stratagems to work on Gretchin units (Big and Mek Gunz, Grot Tanks, Killa Kanz).

What would be absolutely hilarious is if GW made it where we could take any non-named HQ and infantry but the clan kulture was something that changed the stats of all of our non-gretchin infantry to become Gretchin and give them -1 to strength, toughness, and weapon skill but +1 to BS and require us to kitbash the units w Gretchin. Grot Kommandos, for stormboyz you could use that one Gretchin w jetpack as well as the Grot in the rockkit that come in the box, grot lootas, Grots w rokkit launcha, mega-grotz, etc.
While only a few of us would actually build these models, I would jump at the chance to.

**PiñaColada**

Greenson Tide wrote:
Coh Magnussen wrote:
flandarz wrote:
More useful Grots would be nice. Right now, all they're good for is generating CP and Shielding Lootas.

Even just giving the non-infantry grots the existing kultures would be nice... Kanz and grot tanks deserve a chance to see the field! (though if they gave the infantry grots kultur too, my frebootin' grotzwagon crew could be hitting on 2's... talk about dangerous in large numbers!)

I am really hoping that one day they will bring in a Grot Rebels clan in a White Dwarf magazine or something. Make them where the only non-Grot infantry units they can only take are HQs then give the their own culture and allow stratagems to work on Gretchin units (Big and Mek Gunz, Grot Tanks, Killa Kanz).

What would be absolutely hilarious is if GW made it where we could take any non-named HQ and infantry but the clan kulture was something that changed the stats of all of our non-gretchin infantry to become Gretchin and give them -1 to strength, toughness, and weapon skill but +1 to BS and require us to kitbash the units w Gretchin. Grot Kommandos, for stormboyz you could use that one Gretchin w jetpack as well as the Grot in the rockkit that come in the box, grot lootas, Grots w rokkit launcha, mega-grotz, etc.
While only a few of us would actually build these models, I would jump at the chance to.

While a WD expansion on grots would be great I think a vigilus style detachment might be more likely (though not necessarily likely even then). Just give them a detachment that makes them exempt from the no stratagem rule and a couple of strats and grots would start looking a lot more fun. Relic&warlord trait might be a bit more tricky if they don't give us more models though. I really want a cheap spellslinger from AoS but he'd be more suited as an elite because if orks get a 30 point HQ then he'd be spammed in all the meta lists.

Somewhat unrelated (and wishlisting, so I'm putting it in a spoiler to avoid too much clutter) I really want a flier specialist detachment in the next campaign book. Imagine something like this:

Spoiler:

**Jidmah**

PiñaColada wrote:
That 24" range is why I personally never liked using Flash Gitz. Their weapons are too strong for you to want to fire them at chaff so you'll want to move forward, but being within 24" of a juicy target means you're probably 10" away from chaff that can tie you up (same issue with the shokkjump dragsta, although that one has it worse).

I'm fine with their guns being heavy but the range should be 36" IMO, I'd much rather have that over a point drop. Although, to be fair, I'm not playing Freebootas so I'm not getting their max potential anyways.

It's kind of OK when your have a battlewagon flanked by two bonekrushas, as people rarely charge towards those.

**russellmoo**

As some of you guessed yes it is freebooterz and I might put them in a trukk but that is actually dependant on if I am using 2 units of 5, or one unit of 10. If five I will spring for the trukk, if ten the points will go towards Kaptain Badrukk. Also, there are no lootas. So, grot shield is available.

**Vineheart01**

their 24" range isnt that bad considering the 24" freeboota trait range.
You really dont want something sitting in the far corner as freebootas, it wont ever get or give the +1 to hit bonus.

**Coh Magnussen**

Greenson Tide wrote:

What would be absolutely hilarious is if GW made it where we could take any non-named HQ and infantry but the clan kulture was something that changed the stats of all of our non-gretchin infantry to become Gretchin and give them -1 to strength, toughness, and weapon skill but +1 to BS and require us to kitbash the units w Gretchin. Grot Kommandos, for stormboyz you could use that one Gretchin w jetpack as well as the Grot in the rockkit that come in the box, grot lootas, Grots w rokkit launcha, mega-grotz, etc.
While only a few of us would actually build these models, I would jump at the chance to.

Hah! Grot Kultur, with strategems ala skarboyz and 'ardboyz, but for elite grotz? that'd be awesome (maybe only allow it on infantry types with 5+BS though, flash grotz with 3+ might be too much). Though, to be honest, I'm already doing exactly what you described with regards to the conversions, I just have to use the ork statline. So far I only have bustas, kommandoes, and one lonely stormboy but lootas are probably next on the list!

-Coh

**GypsyMinis**

great thread! super useful stuff!

**Emicrania**

Do you reckon they will nerf the SSAG with the big FAQ?

**flandarz**

Not a lot of places *to* nerf it, without just making it a normal SAG. Only upgrades on the SAG are 1d6 extra shots and MW plus regular Wounds on an 11+, instead of just MWs. Only thing they *could* do is make Kustom Ammo not work on it, but then it completely removes any reason to take Dread Waagh in the first place.

**blaktoof**

I've been running two units of flash gitz, 5 strong with ammo runt.

I find they get targeted often and aren't particularly tough, even with grot shields protecting them. One of my main opponents runs lots of mortars and 2 vultures so even large numbers of grots aren't living. Splitting them I to two units has kept them alive longer for me, the bonus +1 be on one model is nice, and the one unit can potentially proc the freebooterz trait for the other. Obviously you lose out on using moar dakka on a 10 model unit which is strong.

I tend to run mine as a spearhead detachment with the Kaptain as hq, a mek gun, and 2 units of 5+1 ammo runt. The Ork transport rules allow you to put freebooterz into other klan transports so then end up either both units of freebooterz and 10 grots in a battlewagon, or in trukks with 5 burnaboyz. The burnaboyz are there mainly for casualty removal options if the transport dies with the gitz in it, they also make an okay charge buffer.

**SemperMortis**

flandarz wrote:
Not a lot of places *to* nerf it, without just making it a normal SAG. Only upgrades on the SAG are 1d6 extra shots and MW plus regular Wounds on an 11+, instead of just MWs. Only thing they *could* do is make Kustom Ammo not work on it, but then it completely removes any reason to take Dread Waagh in the first place.

I thought you couldn't take the SSAG without taking the dread waaagh. For me, the only reason to take the stupid thing is the SSAG.

**flandarz**

Yeah. And the only reason the SSAG is worth spending 1CP on (for Dread Waagh) is for shooting again with Kustom Ammo. So you can shoot twice with your Lootas *and* your SSAG. You take away Kustom Ammo and you're probably better off spending that 1 CP on a Command Reroll for the Lootas.

**PiñaColada**

flandarz wrote:Not a lot of places *to* nerf it, without just making it a normal SAG. Only upgrades on the SAG are 1d6 extra shots and MW plus regular Wounds on an 11+, instead of just MWs. Only thing they *could* do is make Kustom Ammo not work on it, but then it completely removes any reason to take Dread Waagh in the first place.

That's actually incorrect. The SAG and Supa-SAG are identical except 1d6 and 2d6 shots respectively.

flandarz wrote:Yeah. And the only reason the SSAG is worth spending 1CP on (for Dread Waagh) is for shooting again with Kustom Ammo. So you can shoot twice with your Lootas *and* your SSAG. You take away Kustom Ammo and you're probably better off spending that 1 CP on a Command Reroll for the Lootas.

I gotta disagree on that point. I'd still pay 2CP for just the relic version without use of the strat. It's not always going to perform but having an extra ace up your sleeve is worth the price of entry still IMO.

**Nora**

sorry for the blunt question, but what is Kustom Amo?