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russellmoo wrote:
Is Badrukk there simply for the additional shooting from his gun? Do you bring along an ammo runt for him?

I have been interested in running him as well as he seems like he can contribute to an ork gun line.

He only boost Flash gitz

Gun doesn't boost. Gun shoots at enemy ;-)

While Badrukk really shines alongside Flash Gitz, he's a fine HQ on his own too.

I also like that a FG Kaptin can (with Freebootaz) hit on 2s and reroll 1s (with Badrukk around). Too bad you can't just replace every FG with a Kaptin.

Badrukk is oddly accurate for an ork and his gun is nothing to scoff at.
The reroll 1s works on flash gitz and he does have that keyword.

Don't have room for flash gits(what to drop?) And tge two would be only units getting hit bonus. Plenty of mek guns to trigger for first turn or two though

FGs fill basically the same roll that Lootas do, so you *could* replace those. I personally wouldn't, but you *could*.

Honestly, the only thing I would change in your list would be to drop the Traktorz. Smashas will average more shots, and even factoring in the auto hit vs 4+, deal more damage. I don't think I've ever managed to take down anything with the Traktorz.

I've been thinking about running flashgitz and it seems that you either need to go all in with a battalion of freebooterz, or run them in a spearhead, with Badrukk as hq two units of flashgitz and mek guns as the third heavy slot.

 flandarz wrote:
FGs fill basically the same roll that Lootas do, so you *could* replace those. I personally wouldn't, but you *could*.

Honestly, the only thing I would change in your list would be to drop the Traktorz. Smashas will average more shots, and even factoring in the auto hit vs 4+, deal more damage. I don't think I've ever managed to take down anything with the Traktorz.

Think lootas are better ;-) Even after deffgun nerf. Never used 25 lootas anyway as I suspected it would not last so that doesn't matter.

For smasha guns a) I ran out of smasha guns. 36e is kinda expensive. Also there's tons of eldar fliers around...Good luck hitting those on 6's with smasha guns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

russellmoo wrote:
I've been thinking about running flashgitz and it seems that you either need to go all in with a battalion of freebooterz, or run them in a spearhead, with Badrukk as hq two units of flashgitz and mek guns as the third heavy slot.

And here I run into model trouble. Don't have anything suitable for full out freeboota force and even flashgits are limited to 7 I think(or was it 8) and only 5 are painted.

Freebootas need more work before they can be used for me. And more money. Not in priority though. First need to get necrons to playable force. 12k orks are enough for now even without freeboota department!

If they work for you, more power to ya. In my experience, they just haven't been up to snuff.

I think you're going to have morale problems with your big units of grots without a warboss of the same Klan. Might want to re-jig where the warboss goes and where Badrukk goes. Honestly I don't think you're getting much out of the evil sunz kultur, I'd go bad moons or freebootas with that third detachment instead.

Personally with how many mek Gunz and lootas you're bringing I don't think Badrukk's gun is adding much that you can't already do, I think you'll get a lot more out of a KFF but it really depends how you plan to use your boys and grots and how you see yourself deploying. If the Boyz are holding the midfield then a KFF will matter, if they're da jumping all over the place then it's a lot less useful.

Only other suggestion I'd make is drop the KMK and take a min unit of bikes or a deffkopta to grab objectives with. Your call, but to me a bit of mobility with those 60 points does more for you than another D6 S8 shots.

That reminds me forgot the runtherd from list so that takes care of morale issue in the odd case there's actually survivors. Don't have bad moon warboss so can't do that.

KFF would require dropping 35 pts from somewhere.

Boyz are waiting in DS and somewhere out of LOS to be used to grab objectives.

Since the SAG wording is changed to ‘Each time this unit is chosen to shoot with, roll once to determine the Strength characteristic of this weapon.’, does this now mean we roll for S before choosing a target? Because that language mirrors the obliterators and those guys roll for stats before choosing a target IIRC.

For clarity's sake here's the oblit text "When this unit is chosen to shoot in the Shooting phase or fires Overwatch, roll three D3, one after the other, to determine the characteristics of the unit’s fleshmetal guns for that Shooting phase or Overwatch attack... "

That...would be an unusually awesome change if thats the case.
with the warlord trait its generally not a problem but still annoying when youre firing at a T8 target and roll 4 or less strength.
Would actually be a massive buff for the random SAG since w/o the warlord trait its very likely it ends up rolling a bad strength for a vehicle.

edit: looked at the battleprimer shooting phase sequence, and yeah this is the case. You pick a unit, then you pick a target, then you pick which weapons to fire at that target.
Since we roll strength when the SAG is chosen to fire, no more "Crap i rolled a 3.." issues against high toughness!

 Vineheart01 wrote:
That...would be an unusually awesome change if thats the case.
with the warlord trait its generally not a problem but still annoying when youre firing at a T8 target and roll 4 or less strength.
Would actually be a massive buff for the random SAG since w/o the warlord trait its very likely it ends up rolling a bad strength for a vehicle.

edit: looked at the battleprimer shooting phase sequence, and yeah this is the case. You pick a unit, then you pick a target, then you pick which weapons to fire at that target.
Since we roll strength when the SAG is chosen to fire, no more "Crap i rolled a 3.." issues against high toughness!

that is how the series of events seems to work now. super useful, though I do hope in the next CA they do something to make orks less random on shot numbers like lootas maybe d3 per gun not rolled together so one bad dice roll does not ruin a expensive unit or a 1 shot on a BS5+ model.

Can anybody explain to me ELI5 why we can tank a W with the grot oiler with the SSAG?
I think I got it but I can't explain it to my group and I look like someone screaming at seagulls from the sidewalk.

Oiler is part of the unit the SAG is made of.
Unlike drones, the oiler is not broken off and becomes its own entity. Neither do Ammo Runts for Nobz for that matter.
Thus, since he's part of the unit and not a "reminder model" anymore and has a proper profile, he is valid to take a hit for his mek boss with no rolls or anything needed.

PiñaColada wrote:
Since the SAG wording is changed to ‘Each time this unit is chosen to shoot with, roll once to determine the Strength characteristic of this weapon.’, does this now mean we roll for S before choosing a target? Because that language mirrors the obliterators and those guys roll for stats before choosing a target IIRC.

For clarity's sake here's the oblit text "When this unit is chosen to shoot in the Shooting phase or fires Overwatch, roll three D3, one after the other, to determine the characteristics of the unit’s fleshmetal guns for that Shooting phase or Overwatch attack... "

pretty sure No. check the shooting phase order of procedure. 1. choose unit to shoot with. 2. choose targets. 3. choose ranged weapon. So we still have to declare target before rolling the weapon S.

Although you are starting to make me look into this further. this should need an faq from GW. because I could see how the order could be interpreted that way.

Except FAQ just changed "each time this unit is chosen to shoot with".

That would be phase 1(choose unit to shoot with). Not 3(choose ranged weapon)

I gotta agree. You'll roll for SAG Strength when you choose the unit. Pretty clear. Which is *real* nice. Roll a crap S? Hit some chaff. Get that sweet 11+? Hit the armor, baby.

mhalko1 wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
Since the SAG wording is changed to ‘Each time this unit is chosen to shoot with, roll once to determine the Strength characteristic of this weapon.’, does this now mean we roll for S before choosing a target? Because that language mirrors the obliterators and those guys roll for stats before choosing a target IIRC.

For clarity's sake here's the oblit text "When this unit is chosen to shoot in the Shooting phase or fires Overwatch, roll three D3, one after the other, to determine the characteristics of the unit’s fleshmetal guns for that Shooting phase or Overwatch attack... "

pretty sure No. check the shooting phase order of procedure. 1. choose unit to shoot with. 2. choose targets. 3. choose ranged weapon. So we still have to declare target before rolling the weapon S.

Although you are starting to make me look into this further. this should need an faq from GW. because I could see how the order could be interpreted that way.

You do number one, than you roll S, than you do nr 2. "[...] Is chosen to shoot with[...]" .
If you look the lootas faq it says [...]when they resolve the attack[...]" To roll a D3
The difference is pretty clear once you follow the sequence

I thought id share my experiences at local small tournie on the weekend. It's 1250 points and a little competitive (some bring relatively "normal" lists, but then there are occasional triple flyers and morty/magnus lists). Here's my list..

Evil Suns battalion
Warboss on bike (index)
Big Mek with KFF (index)
2 units of 29 sluggas and 1 unit of 29 shootas
3 mega nobs

Badmoons battalion
Weirdboy w/ da jump
Big mek with SSAG
3 units of gretchin
3 smasha guns

My first game was against eldar who took a fire prism and 2 grav tanks that can indirect fire, some guardians, dark repears and eldrad. Those artillery tanks were a pretty good counter to my boyz. He got 1st turn and completely wiped out a unit of boys with his tanks and guardians. The next turn unfortunately sealed my fate as i failed multiple 5-7 inch charges. I did manage to make a charge on his 20 man guardian squad with my boyz but he managed to survive with 5 and auto pass morale. In hindsight i should have fought twice (but was holding on to my 3CP for unstoppable green tide - need to be more flexible i think). Anyway his next turn I was out in the open and he made short work of my boyz. So a loss for me and we stopped early to get lunch - yes i had bad charge rolls, but he also had first turn and just out manoeuvred me.

The next game was against eldar again - but this was a mixed dark/craftworld list with 3 flyers, some wracks and a big unit of talos. Well my initial bad deployment caused the turn 1 loss of my warboss (didnt realise flyers could move that far!). But my SSAG response was to instantly nuke 2 fliers the next turn and remaining one the turn after that. So happy this didnt get nerfed in the faq. I was doing well until i decided to charge his talos and he used something to make me fight last. This game actually finished in a draw due to time. I learnt a lesson about charging talos.... In hindsight i should have just fallen back with my boyz and used my shooting as he didnt have any good shooting with the death of his planes.

The final game was against imperial guard - and a crushing victory to the orks. I got 1st turn, da jump and first turn charge and my SSAG was taking a tank out every turn. Not much to say about this game apart from just saying the soupa up shokka is awesome.

So looking at my list the only auto include in the SSAG. The warboss on bike was underwhelming - only 4 attacks and essentially no armour save, he ended up dying every game. Yes he allows my boyz to advanced and charge but they would be likely in on turn 2 anyway. Im not quite sure where he fits in future lists. Im also slightly unimpressed my boyz - yes they could rid of some chaff, but they are quite expensive in large units and didnt seem to make their points back. Also (and maybe i just rolled bad) - my smasha guns didnt live up to the hype (but then again i was shooting at tanks with them instead of heavy infantry).

With this in mind i've changed my list for next time

Evilsuns battalion
Weirdboy - war path
Big mek with KFF
30 sluggas with nob with PK
10 sluggas with nob with PK
20 shootas with nob with BC

Badmoons battalion
Big mek with SSAG
Weirdboy - da jump
3 units of 10 grots
10 tankbustas
15 lootas

So i've reduced my boyz from 90 to 60. I'll mob up and warpath a unit of 40 and really go all in with da jump (or maybe just advance under the cover of a KFF). The other unit of 20 can be for distraction and/or objective holding. My tankbustas will likely go for a suicide da jump and more dakka/showing off and go down in a blaze of glory. A max unit of lootas behind the grotz for obvious reasons, hopeful this will help me if i run across talos again.

Anyway, well done if you read all that! Be great to hear some comments on the list.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i'd rather them have access to Ramming Speed than those two strats....
If a full strength killakan squad slams into something it still butchers them in melee, ramming speed would let them get there so much faster on top of the mortal wounds.

But who am i kidding that would just be niche not enough to make them good.

Also anybody notice that shooting phase abilities affect overwatch? Atleast non BS modifying ones since theres a clause about that. bad Moonz can reroll 1's in overwatch now! woot! Charge my 30 shoota boyz now i dares ya!

Where did you see that bad moons get their reroll 1’s from overwatch? I can’t find that anywhere.

 Marklarr wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i'd rather them have access to Ramming Speed than those two strats....
If a full strength killakan squad slams into something it still butchers them in melee, ramming speed would let them get there so much faster on top of the mortal wounds.

But who am i kidding that would just be niche not enough to make them good.

Also anybody notice that shooting phase abilities affect overwatch? Atleast non BS modifying ones since theres a clause about that. bad Moonz can reroll 1's in overwatch now! woot! Charge my 30 shoota boyz now i dares ya!

Where did you see that bad moons get their reroll 1’s from overwatch? I can’t find that anywhere.

Q: When a rule allows a model or unit to take an action (move,
shoot, charge, fight or attempt to manifest a psychic power)
outside of the normal turn sequence, and that rule explicitly
mentions to make that action as if it were a different phase of the
turn structure to the current one, e.g. ‘That unit can shoot as if it
were the Shooting phase’, do rules that are normally used during
that phase (in the example this would be the Shooting phase) take
effect? Is the same true of Overwatch attacks?
A: With the exception of Stratagems, all rules (e.g.
abilities, Warlord Traits, psychic powers etc.) that would
apply in a specific phase apply to actions that are taking
place ‘as if it were that phase’. However, if a Stratagem
specifies that it must be used in a specific phase, then
it can only be used in that phase (e.g. you cannot use a
Stratagem that says ‘Use this Stratagem in the Shooting
phase’ to affect a unit that is Shooting ‘as if it were
the Shooting phase’). For the purposes of this FAQ,
Overwatch attacks are also considered to be attacks made
as if it were your Shooting phase.

Page 9 in the Rulebook FAQ/Errata

Q: Can a model take the same wargear option more than once?
For example, can a Space Marine Terminator replace his storm
bolter with a cyclone missile launcher and another storm bolter,
and then replace its ‘new’ storm bolter with a heavy flamer?
A: No. Each bullet-pointed wargear option on a unit’s
datasheet can only be used once each time you include
that unit in your army.

Would this mean that nobz can no longer take 2 choppas?

Gruxz wrote:
Q: Can a model take the same wargear option more than once?
For example, can a Space Marine Terminator replace his storm
bolter with a cyclone missile launcher and another storm bolter,
and then replace its ‘new’ storm bolter with a heavy flamer?
A: No. Each bullet-pointed wargear option on a unit’s
datasheet can only be used once each time you include
that unit in your army.

Would this mean that nobz can no longer take 2 choppas?

They still can, as that's handled in the wargear section (not the datasheet's options). This doesn't really affect Orks much (I guess you can't trade a choppa for a choppa and then trade that choppa in for a klaw, but there's no reason to do it that way), it's just to stop you from swapping the same weapon multiple times in order to get weird combos in other books.

inquisitorham wrote:

Spoiler:

I thought id share my experiences at local small tournie on the weekend. It's 1250 points and a little competitive (some bring relatively "normal" lists, but then there are occasional triple flyers and morty/magnus lists). Here's my list..

Evil Suns battalion
Warboss on bike (index)
Big Mek with KFF (index)
2 units of 29 sluggas and 1 unit of 29 shootas
3 mega nobs

Badmoons battalion
Weirdboy w/ da jump
Big mek with SSAG
3 units of gretchin
3 smasha guns

My first game was against eldar who took a fire prism and 2 grav tanks that can indirect fire, some guardians, dark repears and eldrad. Those artillery tanks were a pretty good counter to my boyz. He got 1st turn and completely wiped out a unit of boys with his tanks and guardians. The next turn unfortunately sealed my fate as i failed multiple 5-7 inch charges. I did manage to make a charge on his 20 man guardian squad with my boyz but he managed to survive with 5 and auto pass morale. In hindsight i should have fought twice (but was holding on to my 3CP for unstoppable green tide - need to be more flexible i think). Anyway his next turn I was out in the open and he made short work of my boyz. So a loss for me and we stopped early to get lunch - yes i had bad charge rolls, but he also had first turn and just out manoeuvred me.

The next game was against eldar again - but this was a mixed dark/craftworld list with 3 flyers, some wracks and a big unit of talos. Well my initial bad deployment caused the turn 1 loss of my warboss (didnt realise flyers could move that far!). But my SSAG response was to instantly nuke 2 fliers the next turn and remaining one the turn after that. So happy this didnt get nerfed in the faq. I was doing well until i decided to charge his talos and he used something to make me fight last. This game actually finished in a draw due to time. I learnt a lesson about charging talos.... In hindsight i should have just fallen back with my boyz and used my shooting as he didnt have any good shooting with the death of his planes.

The final game was against imperial guard - and a crushing victory to the orks. I got 1st turn, da jump and first turn charge and my SSAG was taking a tank out every turn. Not much to say about this game apart from just saying the soupa up shokka is awesome.

So looking at my list the only auto include in the SSAG. The warboss on bike was underwhelming - only 4 attacks and essentially no armour save, he ended up dying every game. Yes he allows my boyz to advanced and charge but they would be likely in on turn 2 anyway. Im not quite sure where he fits in future lists. Im also slightly unimpressed my boyz - yes they could rid of some chaff, but they are quite expensive in large units and didnt seem to make their points back. Also (and maybe i just rolled bad) - my smasha guns didnt live up to the hype (but then again i was shooting at tanks with them instead of heavy infantry).

With this in mind i've changed my list for next time

Evilsuns battalion
Weirdboy - war path
Big mek with KFF
30 sluggas with nob with PK
10 sluggas with nob with PK
20 shootas with nob with BC

Badmoons battalion
Big mek with SSAG
Weirdboy - da jump
3 units of 10 grots
10 tankbustas
15 lootas

So i've reduced my boyz from 90 to 60. I'll mob up and warpath a unit of 40 and really go all in with da jump (or maybe just advance under the cover of a KFF). The other unit of 20 can be for distraction and/or objective holding. My tankbustas will likely go for a suicide da jump and more dakka/showing off and go down in a blaze of glory. A max unit of lootas behind the grotz for obvious reasons, hopeful this will help me if i run across talos again.

Anyway, well done if you read all that! Be great to hear some comments on the list.

I tend to agree with the idea that large mobs of Boyz are not as effective as they used to be.
Unless you're totally sold on lootas I'd give the smasha gun another go, and maybe run the ssag battalion as freebootas. Use the smashas to get your +1 to hit and reap the benefits with your ssag and tankbustas.

That’s ace man, thanks. Makes those Badmoon bikers, boys and Naughts a lot more spicier in overwatch.

 r_squared wrote:

inquisitorham wrote:

Spoiler:

I thought id share my experiences at local small tournie on the weekend. It's 1250 points and a little competitive (some bring relatively "normal" lists, but then there are occasional triple flyers and morty/magnus lists). Here's my list..

Evil Suns battalion
Warboss on bike (index)
Big Mek with KFF (index)
2 units of 29 sluggas and 1 unit of 29 shootas
3 mega nobs

Badmoons battalion
Weirdboy w/ da jump
Big mek with SSAG
3 units of gretchin
3 smasha guns

My first game was against eldar who took a fire prism and 2 grav tanks that can indirect fire, some guardians, dark repears and eldrad. Those artillery tanks were a pretty good counter to my boyz. He got 1st turn and completely wiped out a unit of boys with his tanks and guardians. The next turn unfortunately sealed my fate as i failed multiple 5-7 inch charges. I did manage to make a charge on his 20 man guardian squad with my boyz but he managed to survive with 5 and auto pass morale. In hindsight i should have fought twice (but was holding on to my 3CP for unstoppable green tide - need to be more flexible i think). Anyway his next turn I was out in the open and he made short work of my boyz. So a loss for me and we stopped early to get lunch - yes i had bad charge rolls, but he also had first turn and just out manoeuvred me.

The next game was against eldar again - but this was a mixed dark/craftworld list with 3 flyers, some wracks and a big unit of talos. Well my initial bad deployment caused the turn 1 loss of my warboss (didnt realise flyers could move that far!). But my SSAG response was to instantly nuke 2 fliers the next turn and remaining one the turn after that. So happy this didnt get nerfed in the faq. I was doing well until i decided to charge his talos and he used something to make me fight last. This game actually finished in a draw due to time. I learnt a lesson about charging talos.... In hindsight i should have just fallen back with my boyz and used my shooting as he didnt have any good shooting with the death of his planes.

The final game was against imperial guard - and a crushing victory to the orks. I got 1st turn, da jump and first turn charge and my SSAG was taking a tank out every turn. Not much to say about this game apart from just saying the soupa up shokka is awesome.

So looking at my list the only auto include in the SSAG. The warboss on bike was underwhelming - only 4 attacks and essentially no armour save, he ended up dying every game. Yes he allows my boyz to advanced and charge but they would be likely in on turn 2 anyway. Im not quite sure where he fits in future lists. Im also slightly unimpressed my boyz - yes they could rid of some chaff, but they are quite expensive in large units and didnt seem to make their points back. Also (and maybe i just rolled bad) - my smasha guns didnt live up to the hype (but then again i was shooting at tanks with them instead of heavy infantry).

With this in mind i've changed my list for next time

Evilsuns battalion
Weirdboy - war path
Big mek with KFF
30 sluggas with nob with PK
10 sluggas with nob with PK
20 shootas with nob with BC

Badmoons battalion
Big mek with SSAG
Weirdboy - da jump
3 units of 10 grots
10 tankbustas
15 lootas

So i've reduced my boyz from 90 to 60. I'll mob up and warpath a unit of 40 and really go all in with da jump (or maybe just advance under the cover of a KFF). The other unit of 20 can be for distraction and/or objective holding. My tankbustas will likely go for a suicide da jump and more dakka/showing off and go down in a blaze of glory. A max unit of lootas behind the grotz for obvious reasons, hopeful this will help me if i run across talos again.

Anyway, well done if you read all that! Be great to hear some comments on the list.

I tend to agree with the idea that large mobs of Boyz are not as effective as they used to be.
Unless you're totally sold on lootas I'd give the smasha gun another go, and maybe run the ssag battalion as freebootas. Use the smashas to get your +1 to hit and reap the benefits with your ssag and tankbustas.

Also how much of an emphasis was the evil suns trait in your game? you mentioned you failed multiple charges even with that +1" it might make more sense to switch them to another trait as well. DS for 6++ or badmoons to run shoota boys.

Or he was unlucky. 78% odds and you shouldn't be failing that often(22% times in fact). Do you discount lootas because you roll 1 shot per guy and 10% of hits couple times?

Typically, I bring 60 boyz in my lists (I know, rookie numbers, stick with me), in two groups of 30. However, I'm wondering if there might be advantages to doing 6 groups of 10 and getting that sweet, sweet Brigade bonus. Groups of 10 mean more nobz (awesome), more tankbusta bombs (awesome), more DeffSkull rerolls, and less vulnerability to certain anti-infantry weapons like gatling canons. Downsides, morale takes a bit of a hit, you don't get the +1A, and you can't jump as easily.

With the oodles of CP, you could comfortably use Mob Up each round on surviving units. I think this "consolidating as they run down the field" could be an interesting usage of Mob Up, rather than the usual "grab a buddy before I throw strategems/powers at you". Has anyone tried this configuration? Any lessons learned?