No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]

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**Moriarty**

Not run Lootaz in a Trukk yet, but it is my default setting for Flash Gitz. Just remember to include Ammo Runtz for when the Trukk explodes, and to Loot It for 3+ Save after.

Have tried Grotz in Trukks - the 5+ save is fun, but their damage output does not warrant it, really. Might add the Stikk Bom Chukka for laughs.

**Jidmah**

koooaei wrote:
If i get it right, you can't trigger the freeboota trait with a transported unit. You can benefit from it if some other unit that's deployed normally triggered the rule.

Transports are pretty odd nowadays. Technically, if you follow raw, you can't even disembark unless the transport is destroyed.

Besides that, transports don't add much to speed, often don't add anything to durability but take away from damage per point from the transported units. There are some exceptions though. For example, if a transport is tough and shooty like a wave serpebt or cheap and good all around and can transport cheap good units like de. As for orks, it seems that the only units worth transporting with a trukk are tankbustas and grots. Bustas cause they are expensive, squishy, yet deal nice damage and need to be within 24. And grots cause they are a relatively cheap utility unit. Battlewagon, i'm not sure, maybe nobz and grots/kommandoez

Trukk boyz still work for deffskulls since you can have a single rokkit and a tankbusta bomb with re-rolls in there. With index allowed, you can have another rokkit on the trukk, basically making it a buggy with a unit inside.

**tneva82**

koooaei wrote:
If i get it right, you can't trigger the freeboota trait with a transported unit. You can benefit from it if some other unit that's deployed normally triggered the rule.

Some unit triggers it, the transport gets it, it's modifier so it passes on to lootas inside.

Obviously if your only freebootas are transport and lootas that doesn't work but that's fairly odd list(would require 2 auxiliary detachments...). Just have some mek guns, dakkajets or so around. If you want trukk lootas that's the way to go.

Transports are pretty odd nowadays. Technically, if you follow raw, you can't even disembark unless the transport is destroyed.

What weird RAW that would be

Besides that, transports don't add much to speed, often don't add anything to durability but take away from damage per point from the transported units. There are some exceptions though. For example, if a transport is tough and shooty like a wave serpebt or cheap and good all around and can transport cheap good units like de. As for orks, it seems that the only units worth transporting with a trukk are tankbustas and grots. Bustas cause they are expensive, squishy, yet deal nice damage and need to be within 24. And grots cause they are a relatively cheap utility unit. Battlewagon, i'm not sure, maybe nobz and grots/kommandoez

Wouldn't trukk just add ridiculous markup to grots? Just have more grots for same price.

**koooaei**

It's counter-intuitive to some degree but trukk grots seem to work for me. I occasionally use them for grot shields, bauble wraps and scoring that the opponent hates shooting at. Grots as is are exceptionally easy to remove due to ld4 and they don't work as scoring too well for this reason. At least outside boss's aura. But whrn the grots are hidden inside a trukk, i have certain freedom of deploying them after the trukk gets blown away, so that i can try to get them out of los of the enemy that can't move any further this turn.

**CaptainO**

I like putting grots in vehicles when the vehicle also contains characters. Prevents the possibility of removing an expensive model when it invariably goes kaboom.

I'm investigating taking a Bad moon warboss, giving him the blunderbus relic and big choppa and putting him in a trukk with 10 grots. It basically becomes a Hellhound. Invariably when the trukk goes kablamo my opponent will still have to deal with a close combat monster that can use grot shield with what remains of his grot entourage. 166points . Anyone tried this?

**tneva82**

For grot screen grots need to be closer to enemy than warboss at which point they can't shoot anyway. So no need for strategem either. Save screen for lootas

**CaptainO**

If your opponent doesn’t have snipers or a knight with shield breaker missiles you’re totally correct but a good opponent will hold back their snipers until after they’ve popped any transports.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I haven’t checked but what is the story with sniper mortal wounds and grit shield strat btw?

**flandarz**

If a Grot takes the shot, the Mortal Wounds disappear. Because of the "ends the attack phase" portion of the stratagem.

**russellmoo**

CaptainO wrote:
I like putting grots in vehicles when the vehicle also contains characters. Prevents the possibility of removing an expensive model when it invariably goes kaboom.

I'm investigating taking a Bad moon warboss, giving him the blunderbus relic and big choppa and putting him in a trukk with 10 grots. It basically becomes a Hellhound. Invariably when the trukk goes kablamo my opponent will still have to deal with a close combat monster that can use grot shield with what remains of his grot entourage. 166points . Anyone tried this?

This also might be a good way for a snakebite warboss to deliver the buzz bomb relic.

**tneva82**

CaptainO wrote:
If your opponent doesn’t have snipers or a knight with shield breaker missiles you’re totally correct but a good opponent will hold back their snipers until after they’ve popped any transports.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I haven’t checked but what is the story with sniper mortal wounds and grit shield strat btw?

Most snipers don't kill even weirdboy let alone warboss. Assasin sniper isn't in all lists. And is warboss without killa klaw bigger threat than lootas?

**koooaei**

tneva82 wrote:
koooaei wrote:

Transports are pretty odd nowadays. Technically, if you follow raw, you can't even disembark unless the transport is destroyed.

What weird RAW that would be

Don't have a book on hands. It's the part with "unit can not be affected by any auras".

**Jidmah**

GW has sufficiently clarified what an aura is to debunk the "disembarking is an aura" argument.

If you are a fan of idiotic interpretations of rules despite them being clear, I suggest opening a thread on YMDC and sending BaconCatBug a PM. None of that here.

**tneva82**

koooaei wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
koooaei wrote:

Transports are pretty odd nowadays. Technically, if you follow raw, you can't even disembark unless the transport is destroyed.

What weird RAW that would be

Don't have a book on hands. It's the part with "unit can not be affected by any auras".

I could see "cannot normally do anything..." to be read that except only little later there's specific exception made for disembarking. Even for BCP standards this would be ridiculous. Wonder if anybody actually has been ever silly enough to try to claim this

Would be good "make yourself instant clown" method for sure.

**CaptainO**

tneva82 wrote:
CaptainO wrote:
If your opponent doesn’t have snipers or a knight with shield breaker missiles you’re totally correct but a good opponent will hold back their snipers until after they’ve popped any transports.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I haven’t checked but what is the story with sniper mortal wounds and grit shield strat btw?

Most snipers don't kill even weirdboy let alone warboss. Assasin sniper isn't in all lists. And is warboss without killa klaw bigger threat than lootas?

Between shield breaker missile strat, Mordian orders, sniper drones or even the ork trait that allows the targeting of characters within 18” there are more and more reasons to Be mindful and the grot strat is a nice to have. If there’s a choice between sniping a blunderbuss warboss and killaklaw warboss is snipe the blunderbuss one and charge the killaklaw. 2d6 autohit overwatch is not too bad.

**tneva82**

CaptainO wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
CaptainO wrote:
If your opponent doesn’t have snipers or a knight with shield breaker missiles you’re totally correct but a good opponent will hold back their snipers until after they’ve popped any transports.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I haven’t checked but what is the story with sniper mortal wounds and grit shield strat btw?

Most snipers don't kill even weirdboy let alone warboss. Assasin sniper isn't in all lists. And is warboss without killa klaw bigger threat than lootas?

Between shield breaker missile strat, Mordian orders, sniper drones or even the ork trait that allows the targeting of characters within 18” there are more and more reasons to Be mindful and the grot strat is a nice to have. If there’s a choice between sniping a blunderbuss warboss and killaklaw warboss is snipe the blunderbuss one and charge the killaklaw. 2d6 autohit overwatch is not too bad.

Never been too bothered by shield breakers especially after raven stratagem got more expensive. It's only reliable with that and even then I have failed to kill lots of 4-5 wound characters. Mordians I have yet to see as catachan/cadia just is better. And generally I lose rather that blunderbuss warboss than the lootas. If my opponent protects the warboss I'm just happy and kill the more dangerous lootas ASAP.

**Levski**

Is the DDD stratagem provided to us in Chapter Approved '17 still valid?

If yes, interestingly it doesn't say that you roll an additonal shot on an unmodified 6+. This means you can use it in conjunction with the freeboota kultur and effectively get the same output as 'More dakka', because of the +1 to hit, for only 1CP. Downsides is that you still don't hit on unmodified 5+, but if valid its a nice little synergy.

Not sure if it can stack with either the inbuilt DDD rule or More Dakka stratagem?

(Credit to r/orks user who spotted this)

**flandarz**

From my reading of it, it can stack with the inbuilt DDD, and More Dakka. No idea if it's still valid to use though, but I can't remember anything about "old stratagems" no longer being valid.

Basically, if you stack it with Freebooterz and More Dakka, you'd roll 2 extra attacks for each shooting roll of 5+ (unless you're shooting at targets with penalties to hit).

**addnid**

Bigkilla boss WLT works for shooting attacks, thus for SSAG ? (Been focusing on gsc lately but now getting back to orks for all 2019)

**flandarz**

Yes, it works for the SAG.

**Vineheart01**

Thats generally the big reason the SSAG is such a threat.
It enables it to reliably wound big things, even with a crap strength roll. You have to roll absolute crap to wound badly with that trait.
And with the new FAQ if you DO roll that badly, just shoot something T4-ish with an armor save since now we know the strength before the target.

**flandarz**

And SSAG too.

**koooaei**

Do you roll the number of shots before you choose the target also? Or faq for sag rules only applies to str.

**addnid**

Vineheart01 wrote:
Thats generally the big reason the SSAG is such a threat.
It enables it to reliably wound big things, even with a crap strength roll. You have to roll absolute crap to wound badly with that trait.
And with the new FAQ if you DO roll that badly, just shoot something T4-ish with an armor save since now we know the strength before the target.

I cannot find anything in the FAQ dealing with the choice of target after the strengh roll, where is it please ? I'll need to show proof to my opponent tomorrow

**tneva82**

Page 86 & 120 – Shokk Attack GunChange the first sentence of this weapon’s ability to read:‘Each time this unit is chosen to shoot with, roll once to determine the Strength characteristic of this weapon.’

Though I expect GW did not intend to make SSAG unique special snowflake and was just careless as usual with wording(they don't know their own phases anyway) and will rollback this in next FAQ update but until then unless ruled otherwise(like tournament here) that's how it goes.

Not that it's big deal in general with that warlord trait. You will shoot vs vehicle whether you roll S2 or S12 anyway. Only difference in practice comes whether shooting say leman russ commander or knight(where you will want to switch target if you roll 11+)

**flandarz**

Totally missed this in all the other nerds, but we have to reroll both dice for 'Ere We Go now, instead of being able to reroll only 1 if we want. That one hurts.

**JNAProductions**

flandarz wrote:
Totally missed this in all the other nerds, but we have to reroll both dice for 'Ere We Go now, instead of being able to reroll only 1 if we want. That one hurts.

When was that changed?

**CthuluIsSpy**

flandarz wrote:
Totally missed this in all the other nerds, but we have to reroll both dice for 'Ere We Go now, instead of being able to reroll only 1 if we want. That one hurts.

Actually you don't. 'Ere we go specifically states "all or any of the dice". You can still just roll 1 die.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

JNAProductions wrote:
flandarz wrote:
Totally missed this in all the other nerds, but we have to reroll both dice for 'Ere We Go now, instead of being able to reroll only 1 if we want. That one hurts.

When was that changed?

It wasn't. He's referring to this from the FAQ :

Page 178 – Re-rolls
Change this paragraph to read:
‘Some rules allow you to re-roll a dice roll, which means
you get to roll some or all of the dice again. If a rule
allows you to re-roll a result that was made by adding
several dice together (e.g. 2D6, 3D6, etc.) then, unless
otherwise stated, you must roll all of those dice again.
You can never re-roll a dice more than once, and re-rolls
happen before modifiers (if any) are applied.’

However, 'Ere we go is exempt from this, as the bolded part concerns it.

**Vineheart01**

yeah thats the sole reason 'ere we go is so dang strong.
Its not just the reroll for free, its the choice reroll for free.

**tneva82**

Copying from another thread:

Odds of a 9 inch charge: 27.78%
Rerolling 1 die: 52.31%
Rerolling both dice: 47.84%
Choice between rerolling 1 or both: 56.94%

For an 8 inch charge (i.e. with +1 to charge roll): 41.67%
Reroll 1 die: 68.06%
Reroll both: 65.97%
Choice between rerolls: 72.45%

So reroling 1 dice is generally better than rerolling both. And having choice is even better. Others have to use CP reroll for same effect if they have reroll charge roll ability. We get it for free. For every unit. Yey.

**flandarz**

Ah. That's good then. I was concerned.