Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Thanks. Ya I looked in the designers commentary and ork faq, couldn’t find it there. Thanks for clearing that up.

i dont know why they have 2 different FAQ documents for the main rules.
Yeah one is a lot more wordy on the whys and is formatted better imo but it doesnt cover everything. Also for some reason the Rulebook FAQ likes to not show up on the erattas page.

They don't. Think the other you refer is the short(lol) summary of biggest changes(

In other words gw errataed errata so now bad moons not rerolling 1's in overwatch(plus similar abilities)

cody.d. wrote:
You're quite right on all points Flandars. But that's sort of the point of the list. Able to have these 2 big, expensive units firing twice, in theory putting out double the fire power that they should usually. And yes having 3 naughts does mean i've pushed my army in a certain direction it also means that no matter what the games progression I should have a viable target for that sweet kustom ammo. Either mek, mork or gork. A target of value should exist to warrant one of them firing twice at bs4.

Though burning through tonnes of CP is sort of what orks and indeed knight armies do by default. My basic turn outline does have 6cp being used per turn and have an effective 2 extra units pouring out dakka.

In regards to the Mekadread apposed to the gork. I dunno, while the units are very much comparable, I'm rather in love with the Morks new Kustom-mega weapon.

As a modification to my list I could bring in some megatrakks to be mobile, try to trigger or benefit from freebootas. If all things go my way the Loota/tankbusta unit will likely be either out of line of sight or range until I use da jump to move them into position, increasing the likleyhood they survive until their time of glory. At which point the opponent has 3 naughts sauntering up about try to cook their chicken with either 49,000 slaps or 1 big one.

Of course I could drop the lootas, make the force badmoons and use it on the supa shokka then throw in trakks and shockjumps to fill out the weapon needs.

Hey, if that's your strategy, I ain't gonna argue you down. I'm just pointing out potential issues as I see them. You're 100% free to run the list you want in the way you want. Your playstyle is probably geared towards making it work.

ok thats just funny.
I literally just looked up the FAQ to pull that quote from and not even an hour later theres a new one saying the exact opposite LOL

Really irritates me purely because of how many other armies get "reroll 1s" auras flat instead of just a phase. Least we still get DDD because that just says shooting attack.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i dont know why they have 2 different FAQ documents for the main rules.
Yeah one is a lot more wordy on the whys and is formatted better imo but it doesnt cover everything. Also for some reason the Rulebook FAQ likes to not show up on the erattas page.

Ya that’s what caused the confusion. The designers commentary was one of the first ones that came up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
How to tell someone didnt see the FAQ themself and is just using word of mouth as concrete rule changes.

Its literally the first sentence in the answer regarding the "as if" stuff. Its not in the "Designer's Commentary" its in the Rulebook FAQ

Q: When a rule allows a model or unit to take an action (move, shoot, charge, fight or attempt to manifest a psychic power) outside of the normal turn sequence, and that rule explicitly mentions to make that action as if it were a different phase of the turn structure to the current one, e.g. ‘That unit can shoot as if it were the Shooting phase’, do rules that are normally used during that phase (in the example this would be the Shooting phase) take effect? Is the same true of Overwatch attacks?
A: With the exception of Stratagems, all rules (e.g. abilities, Warlord Traits, psychic powers etc.) that would apply in a specific phase apply to actions that are taking place ‘as if it were that phase’. However, if a Stratagem specifies that it must be used in a specific phase, then it can only be used in that phase (e.g. you cannot use a Stratagem that says ‘Use this Stratagem in the Shooting phase’ to affect a unit that is Shooting ‘as if it were the Shooting phase’). For the purposes of this FAQ, Overwatch attacks are also considered to be attacks made as if it were your Shooting phase.

So the bad moons “showing off” strat says “use this immediately after resolving a shooting attack”. It does not specify that it has to be used “in the shooting phase”. It even specified that it can only be used once per phase. I could be wrong but this appears to mean that it can be used in overwatch (or if you used orks is never beaten). “More dakka “ strat on the other hand does specify that it is to be used in the shooting phase which due to the above rule means it could not be used in overwatch (or if you used orks is never beaten strat)

Guys is there any FW model that is competitive at all? Chinork looks ok but it feels like it would be great for burnaz , if burnaz weren't trash.
Anyone tried the Gargantuan Squiggoth?

Also, anyone that uses FG, how do you guys move them in range ? DS? Da Jump? Trukk?

Chinork is decent. I heard Garg Squig isn't awful (atleast it's better than the Stompa). I don't know about anything else.

Gargsquig is decent but in the meta of anti-knights it not that hard to take out.

 Emicrania wrote:
Guys is there any FW model that is competitive at all? Chinork looks ok but it feels like it would be great for burnaz , if burnaz weren't trash.
Anyone tried the Gargantuan Squiggoth?

Also, anyone that uses FG, how do you guys move them in range ? DS? Da Jump? Trukk?

Zhardsnark is great
Mekadread is decent as well

 Emicrania wrote:
Guys is there any FW model that is competitive at all? Chinork looks ok but it feels like it would be great for burnaz , if burnaz weren't trash.
Anyone tried the Gargantuan Squiggoth?

Also, anyone that uses FG, how do you guys move them in range ? DS? Da Jump? Trukk?

I've had success with a big trakk, armed with the supa-skorcha and a pair of skorchas. It's the second fastest transport an ork can get, weirdly enough, at 14" move. I imagine a pair of big trakks flanking a wartrike would be beastly - move 14", advance 3" and charge 7", 24" charge turn 1, on average, with a pretty powerful unit with a transport. 147 points as standard, twice the firepower of a trukk and a faster move, and access to much more dakka. Alternative taktik, roll 14" forwards and flame stuff with supa skorchas, then 8" disembark/move, 7" charge, for a 29" turn 2 charge with the contents, and still having 2 supa-skorchas rolling around to kill stuff.

I'm looking to use the squiggoth (regular size, not gargantuan) in my army (once I've done sculpting one!), planning to get it into combat ASAP and fire tankbustas out of it.

The kill tank was pretty good with a bursta gun, I didn't realise it could dish out mortal wounds when it charged so didn't use it to its full capacity. My opponent was preoccupied with closer targets, on turn 3 they chipped the first wound off and were surprised at how many it had left! it was the sole survivor of the game, I lost fairly thoroughly! Live & learn!

Meka Dread did a lot of damage and then died, if I remember correctly. It can be frighteningly quick! Needs a powerful tank to charge at for maximum damage and minimal recommupance. Don't let your opponent kill you back in your own turn!

 Emicrania wrote:

addnid wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:

addnid wrote:
I own several scrapjets and I just don't get it, how do they work without being taken by the dozen ? They are easy to take out, they don't shoot very far so they need to get into that 24 inch "great danger range". They deal decent damage so long as they don't shoot on a -1 to hit target.

So how does 2 scrapjets help in his list ? They cost 110 per piece !!

Edit: ah so blood axe scrapjets for that cover save while 18 inch away. Still not convinced, but I want to be !

Honestly though all these ork lists don't stand a chance against any my GSC lists for example... Perhaps they had good match ups i dunno

Got a tournament with my freebooterz at the end of this month and will face some gsc for sure. I never met them before; any tip on how to counter them? What are the gsc weakness?

I need you to paste your list, can’t help you otherwise. Basically you need to prevent them from killing all your boys when gsc turn 2 hits

++ Air Wing Detachment +1CP (Orks) [22 PL, 465pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Freebooterz

+ Flyer +

Dakkajet [7 PL, 148pts]: 6x Supa Shoota

Dakkajet [7 PL, 148pts]: 6x Supa Shoota

Wazbom Blastajet [8 PL, 169pts]: 2x Wazbom Mega-Kannons, Kustom Force Field, Smasha Gun, Supa Shoota

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [25 PL, 511pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Freebooterz

+ HQ +

Big Mek on Warbike (Index) [6 PL, 110pts]: Kustom Force Field, Kustom Mega-blasta

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]

+ Troops +

Boyz [11 PL, 217pts]: 3x Tankbusta Bombs
Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Kustom Shoota (Index)
29x Ork Boy W/ Shoota

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
10x Gretchin

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Orks) [39 PL, -2CP, 774pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Freebooterz

Extra Gubbins (1/3 CP) [-1CP]: 1 Extra Shiny Gubbins

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Dread Waaaagh!

+ HQ +

Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 84pts]: Big Killa Boss, Da Souped-up Shokka, Grot Oiler, Shokk Attack Gun, Warlord

Warboss on Warbike (index) [5 PL, 101pts]: Attack Squig, Da Killa Klaw, Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw

+ Fast Attack +

Stormboyz [3 PL, 50pts]
Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Slugga
4x Stormboy

+ Heavy Support +

Gorkanaut [15 PL, 311pts]: 2x Rokkit Launcha, Skorcha, 2x Twin Big Shoota

Mek Gunz [8 PL, 138pts]
Gun: Smasha Gun
Gun: Smasha Gun
Gun: Smasha Gun
Gun: Traktor Kannon

Mek Gunz [4 PL, 90pts]
Gun: Traktor Kannon
Gun: Traktor Kannon

I usually deploy everything as I would start 2nd, 6 cp goes to shoot twice for the SSAG or the Gorkanaut, depends if vs horde or not.
The plane are an harrasment and treath to backline champs. I usually take a plane or the shoota boyz or a gunz to proc +1 to hit. I rarely jump the shoota before T2, i play slowly and tend to occupy half field from t2 onwards. I only play ITC.
The stormboyz are a objective grabber or counter DS distraction.

You just have to deploy the planes on the sides so that turn 1 they move in front in a sort of wall/line and let one get torched by aco flamers, gorkanaut also goes into wall. Try and go second else you will have two turns where min movement for planes will prevent you from being able to use them as a wall. Certainly not the best ork list against gsc that is certain


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Has anybody tried out our good old Ghazghkull Thraka lately ? 235 seems overpriced but... I just want to...

What are you guys take on him in the current meta ? Seems that if he was 200 he would see tabletop time

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Has anybody tried out our good old Ghazghkull Thraka lately ? 235 seems overpriced but... I just want to...

What are you guys take on him in the current meta ? Seems that if he was 200 he would see tabletop time

Ghaz is wierd.. he is ok in the right list and can be great if you build a list around him, but its usually a case of wanting ghaz and friends. give him a wierdboy for fist of gork and a painboy to give fmp and more importantly healign d3 wounds per turn. but that said that is 3 characters and while those can do a lot of damage they only really work with some lists, and it is 362 points.

now surround ghaz by 120 boyz, and it does work but its is 1262 for just that so in 2k sub 800 points for the rest. preferably in a bigmek w/ relic SAG, mek guns, and mayeb a wazboom plasta jet to move first turn and give them a 5++ plus its awesome shooting. I like to set up jet, then 120 boys as much as you can in that 9 inch bubble which is easy with the bigger flyer base.

problem with Ghaz is the usual assaulty-army problem with characters. Boyz tend to block the pathways so he cant make the charge, since he has to reach the unit hes charging not your units in combat with the target enemy unit, so i always found it immensely difficult to get any characters in the charge with the boyz. Same goes for WAAAAAGH! Banner nobz
Ghaz is a little easier (keyword, little) because at least he can technically charge first to dodge that problem due to how durable he is. But theres plenty of things out there boyz wanna charge that have some pretty mean guns so thats a limited solution.

before i found how utterly disgusting Da Jump is i was running painboyz and i always had this problem where the boyz would make a 7-8" charge and the painboy did not, so suddenly the boyz have no aura. I really wish Heroic Intervention also allowed a character to "follow a unit within 3 inches as they charge" so i can avoid the character failing the charge or ONLY the character making the charge (whichever i charge first with)

 Vineheart01 wrote:
problem with Ghaz is the usual assaulty-army problem with characters. Boyz tend to block the pathways so he cant make the charge, since he has to reach the unit hes charging not your units in combat with the target enemy unit, so i always found it immensely difficult to get any characters in the charge with the boyz. Same goes for WAAAAAGH! Banner nobz
Ghaz is a little easier (keyword, little) because at least he can technically charge first to dodge that problem due to how durable he is. But theres plenty of things out there boyz wanna charge that have some pretty mean guns so thats a limited solution.

before i found how utterly disgusting Da Jump is i was running painboyz and i always had this problem where the boyz would make a 7-8" charge and the painboy did not, so suddenly the boyz have no aura. I really wish Heroic Intervention also allowed a character to "follow a unit within 3 inches as they charge" so i can avoid the character failing the charge or ONLY the character making the charge (whichever i charge first with)

Why don't you just daisy chain the boyz back to within range of the buff as they charge? You might prevent one or two boyz from fighting but you're buffing the entire unit.

Also IMO you never charge the waaagh banner Nob into combat. Any opponent worth his salt with immediately target him to remove the buff from the rest of the boyz.

I ran Ghaz with 90 Goff Boyz and 30 stormboyz in a recent beer and pretzels game with a friend running a world eaters list and he went down turn 2 to Belakor, but ripped him in half as he went down with orks is never beaten.
It's the only time I've run Ghaz in 8th, and he was tasty, but sadly I never got to utilise his buffs on the mobs of Boyz surrounding him so I can't really say how effective he is.

What was useful though was the skarboyz strategem, the difference wounding on 3s makes was gratifying against the marines but I was a bit underwhelmed by the exploding 6s in combat though. In general, most of the time it made up the difference in the number of attacks to number of hits ratio, which was quite nice, but it doesn't feel like it has the same impact as DD. I suppose I was expecting more, but with the amount we roll anyway, it felt a bit of a waste.
It did help take down Belakor in one go though, generating an extra 3 attacks, which was very nice.

Problem with Ghaz is that his main bonus (bonus attack) is kinda pointless.
235-80 = 155 points over regular klaw-boss equals to 22 boyz which yield up to 67 attacks without spells. So you need to hit at least 2 full units of boyz with Ghaz aura to get equal damage, but 22 boyz also give more board control, more wounds...

He might be useful in a klan-soup lists, but regular restrictions of 3 detachments make him hard to push into the list without ruining kultures for key units. In this regard he is similiar to the gnarlmaw tree, which is very useful, but doesn’t worth a detachment.


I had another test recently with this list:


Played against almost 100 genestealers with broodlord, swarmlord, flyrant, neurotrope, venomtropes and a squad of termagants. Kraken.

Hammer and Anvil, Tactical Escalation, SUPPLIES FROM ABOVE (from CA2018)

He chose sides, so I had good chances of going first, but if he seizes I am screwed, so I placed everything far at my deployment zone, 4 grot squads zoning him from moving closer to my main units.
Luckily he didn’t seized.
Turn 1:
I advanced with grots, blocking his move (well, sort of) and dajumped grots even closer on the left flank where smarmlord hid.
Shooting phase I’ve destroyed gants to get first strike and spent 7CP morkanaut, who was tall enough to spot Swarlord behind the ruin.
First shooting was lackluster, but second one destroyed Swarlord (yet he was killed by the very last dice i rolled, which i had to reroll for CP, so I was veeery nervous).
He rushed towards me, tri-pinted one squad of grots (mistake) with two genestealers’ squads and destroyed 30 grots and 30 boyz.

Turn 2:
I dajumped tri-pointed grots (rolled 1-1, had to spent cp on re-roll ), shot one GS squad with lootas and morkanaut, second one with boyz and SAGs, charged and killed broodlord and another GS squad, effectively wiping most of his army. Wartrike advanded for 23’’ preparing to give me linebreaker.
Flyrant deepstriked (deepstroke?) and tried to kill wartrike, but failed.
He tried to maneur with the remaining GS squad, but overwatch from boyz killed A LOT and his troops ended.

Turn 3:
Wartrike and couple smites killed Flyrant.
Morkanaut killed Venomtropes.

His only remaining unit was Neurotrope.

With him being a bit luckier on Maelstrom, I won only 16-4.

Couple pics:

 flandarz wrote:
Chinork is decent. I heard Garg Squig isn't awful (atleast it's better than the Stompa). I don't know about anything else.

The Chinork is quite nice and has several interesting tricks up its sleeves.

- It is really fast 16" + guaranteed 8" advance. Since you measure to and from the base it is easy to hide. This gives it some 1st turn survivabilty
- If your opponent doesn't need line of sight (and be careful cause the Chinork is as flimsy as can be) you can deepstrike it for a gauranteed round of shooting
- The flight bases are large and combined with buggies it will limit your opponent's moving space quickly
- Best used as a transport-gunship it allows your tankbustas to sweep the field from left to right and engage targets easily
- A ncie set-up is to fill it up with dual-choppa nobs and park it in your opponent's face in or next to a bit of terrain. They destroy it? Well nice, now you have a 20 wounds 2+ save unit which he has to deal with
- Quite often I charge mine into enemy tanks as well. It doesn't do much on itself but since it has fly it disengages happily next turn while your opponent is has been stuck and unable to shoot its tank
- All of its armament is situational. Deffguns hardly hit anything, don't invest in a Skorcha cause it makes the entire setup too expensive. The bombs sometimes work but don't count on them.

I am going to field it with 9 kustom-shoota nobs and a warboss with the Blunderbuss for a tourney in a week or two. Later this year I'll take two Chinorks, one filled up with 10 kustom-shoota nobs (for 40 S4 chaff clearing shots) and one with bustas.

Ghaz is also much harder to kill than a Klaw Boss. +1T, +2W, and a +2/4++ vs 4+. With +1 Attacks (+2 on a charge) and 3 Damage vs D3, he also hits a bit harder. That's said: he's a significant investment and he (obviously) works better with at least 1 Mob of Boys and a Banner Nob. I think if you're gonna run a Green Tide, he's a "must take". Otherwise? I'd leave him at home.

 flandarz wrote:
Ghaz is also much harder to kill than a Klaw Boss. +1T, +2W, and a +2/4++ vs 4+. With +1 Attacks (+2 on a charge) and 3 Damage vs D3, he also hits a bit harder. That's said: he's a significant investment and he (obviously) works better with at least 1 Mob of Boys and a Banner Nob. I think if you're gonna run a Green Tide, he's a "must take". Otherwise? I'd leave him at home.

Ghaz isn’t that much harder to kill. Most of the time he is protected by his character keyword, and dies if he’s left in the open alone.
His most notable survivability bonus is that he doesn’t die to a single failed save from a knight’s chainsword.

He can’t take killa klaw, he eats the space of almost full unit of boyz, he is awkward to put into non-goff army.
I’d take evil sunz warboss with killa klaw any day of the week. Or bad moonz warboss with 4++ or thunderbus-skorcha.

I wish GW left the megaboss option in the codex, but alas...

I don’t mean Ghaz is useless, he is cool, but compared to other faction leaders: guilliman, abaddon - he is lacking for his price.
No CP boost, very situational army-wide bonus (you need to charge first).
With S7 he could have been better against T8 vehicles (s7x2+2 from fist of gork) and 8 attacks on charge with 1-2 bonus attacks - could aim to kill a knight.

He *is* protected by his character Keyword. But he's tough, has enough Wounds, and has that 4++, meaning that (unlike the KK Boss) he can survive by himself a little better. Ex: it'll take 288 BS/WS4, S4, AP0, D1 attacks to take him down, compared to 72 for the KK boss (on average). With AP-3, S8, and D3 Damage, that turns into 24 for Ghaz and 9 for the KK. Of the two, Ghaz is gonna take a much more significant investment for your opponent to take down.

All that aside, a wise man once said: "Why not both?"

As I really don’t want to play green tides ATM, home is where he will stay. thanks guys. He really should provide 2cps if not 3 as other faction overlords do, for 235 points

 Singleton Mosby wrote:

The Chinork is quite nice and has several interesting tricks up its sleeves.

- It is really fast 16" + guaranteed 8" advance. Since you measure to and from the base it is easy to hide. This gives it some 1st turn survivabilty

Can you explain that? I understand that range is measured from the base, but isn't shooting LOS determined by any point on the target model being visible to the shooting model?

thanks,
Coh

Also: Fists of Gork adjusts your Strength Characteristic *before* your Klaw multiplier. Meaning that, if you FoG Ghaz, he'll have an effective 16S with his Klaw anyway. Though I *do* wish he gave CP like the other Faction leaders. It would certainly make Goffs a lot more competitive.

Yeah, I think he's mistaken, Coh.

The fact that hes Goff and not allowed to be in any army w/o busting kultures is another issue.
Goff isnt bad, but its buffing an attribute orks excel at already. It doesnt help them get the charge more (Evil Sunz), it doesnt help them survive (Bloodaxe/Deathskull), and it doesnt improve dakka before the charge (Deathskull/Freeboota/Badmoonz)

Goff things tend to murder whatever they charge but my badmoonz usually do too so....big deal?

Yeah. Goffs need something to help em out a bit. Even Skar Boyz aren't enough compared to the other options. Getting some bonus CP on Ghaz, or something? I dunno. My basic point is: if you're running Green Tide, you'll probably want some Goffs. And if you got some Goffs, you'll probably want Ghaz to buff them up.

Coh Magnussen wrote:

 Singleton Mosby wrote:

The Chinork is quite nice and has several interesting tricks up its sleeves.

- It is really fast 16" + guaranteed 8" advance. Since you measure to and from the base it is easy to hide. This gives it some 1st turn survivabilty

Can you explain that? I understand that range is measured from the base, but isn't shooting LOS determined by any point on the target model being visible to the shooting model?

thanks,
Coh

It states in the rule that ranges and LOS are measured from the Base.

Wait...now I reread it again I realise that only counts for the passenger's shooting. :(

I still get push back from my Group on the double choppa 5 attack nobz thing. I am running out of arguments... How to convince them ? Thanks !!!

addnid wrote:
I still get push back from my Group on the double choppa 5 attack nobz thing. I am running out of arguments... How to convince them ? Thanks !!!

Do you have the codex to show them? Just show them the Nobz datasheet wargear options section and then the Nobz weapons section on the wargear lists page (page 83). What reasoning are they using to tell you that Nobz can't take two choppas?

It’s more to do with the argument that two choppas don’t give more than one attack.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But I think the last faq is pretty clear on chainswords so...