No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Vineheart01**

Oh yeah if they went back to 25pts and removed the -1 to hit i think they'd be fine. Maybe have killsaws to 2D3 damage for 4pts more? Killaklaw would probably want flat6 damage then and can you imagine the outrcry of our boss suddenly doing potentially 36 damage if all 6 attacks land/wound? (counting Fists of Gork here) would be hilarious as well as concerning.

At 25pts you arent really gonna spam them either. Squad of nobz would be a freakin' fortune to try and abuse that with lol and like you said boyz in a trukk wouldnt be that dangerous either, though it would make them more viable than they are.

**tneva82**

Does 8th ed need such a power up though. Marine fists etc all to d6 damage...Big change.

**Vineheart01**

Not really. If anything stuff does too much damage imo.
I almost wish the damage would get toned down a bit. But that would require a massive overhaul across the entire game.

**flandarz**

There's a lot of things that need to be toned down in 8th. Like Invuln Saves and AP.

**Grimskul**

flandarz wrote:
There's a lot of things that need to be toned down in 8th. Like Invuln Saves and AP.

True dat. Unless you have some combination of high toughness, an invuln and some neg to hit mod or some FNP save you're almost guaranteed to die in a turn under even semi-dedicated firepower.

**Ratius**

Welcome to Nids current edition :(

**Vineheart01**

That too.
I dont feel any generic weapon should have AP, even AP on a 6 to wound is pushing it, and getting beyond AP1 should be difficult. AP4-5 shouldnt even exist except for Titan grade weapons.

**Tomsug**

First since codex I'm total happy with my list. I call it done. Today, marines tabled T4 and more than 1000p of orks on the table in 1850p game.

Works well balanced. Mostly shooting, meganobz and warboss to keep the foots on ground (today like defence line againts masive DS with thunderhammers and some hard-as-nut dreadnoughts) and my favourite kill-what-you-want jets.

And no boyz.

I'm really proud

Spoiler:

**Vineheart01**

Man its amazing how many toyz you can squeeze when you DONT try to use boyz.
Still hoping they dock their price back down. 7pt boyz is so dumb.

**Tomsug**

Vineheart01 wrote:
Man its amazing how many toyz you can squeeze when you DONT try to use boyz.
Still hoping they dock their price back down. 7pt boyz is so dumb.

Toyz or boyz, that' s always the question...

**Grimskul**

Vineheart01 wrote:
That too.
I dont feel any generic weapon should have AP, even AP on a 6 to wound is pushing it, and getting beyond AP1 should be difficult. AP4-5 shouldnt even exist except for Titan grade weapons.

Yeah, I think this is where AoS gets it right. AP -1 is the most commonplace and mainly seen via elite units, AP -2 is pretty rare outside of a few special weapons in units and heroes, while AP -3 is almost unheard of outside of relics or specific special characters. With AP being handed out like candy it really devalues guys like Meganobz who rarely feel more survivable vs a unit of boyz.

**Vineheart01**

Hell it devalues marines which is the really weird one.
Posterboyz die in droves if theres any AP around on top of rate of fire.

And yeah i agree, AoS does do it right. Im fine with stuff like Autocannons having ap1 but heavybolters should not.... as a quick example.

**tneva82**

In aos less 2+ and 3+ saves around though.

**Jidmah**

tneva82 wrote:
Does 8th ed need such a power up though. Marine fists etc all to d6 damage...Big change.

Is there any unit with powerfists considered competitive right now?

In addition, just because orks get them, doesn't necessarily mean that marines need to get them as well.

**An Actual Englishman**

Jidmah wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Does 8th ed need such a power up though. Marine fists etc all to d6 damage...Big change.

Is there any unit with powerfists considered competitive right now?

In addition, just because orks get them, doesn't necessarily mean that marines need to get them as well.

To be fair, a lot of Marine weapons in melee are now D3 + 1 or flat 4 damage are they not?

The Thunderhammers, relic weapons then added with the doctrine bonuses become pretty obscene.

It concerns me that White Scars have flown under the radar so much, their mobility and cc damage output is unreal. They have a huge win rate and yet we've all been so focused on IH they remain largely untouched.

**Vineheart01**

Oh trust me they havent flown under my radar.
I actually dont have any powergamers in my area that follow whatever is strongest. Closest we got is 1 guy that at least knows the difference between casual and tournament lists. So nobody uses Iron Hands since nobody likes their fluff.
White Scars on the other hand theres 2 of them and MAN they are annoying. They have no super survivability but good grief they hurt.

**tulun**

Just brewing a fun mecha list. Any tips?

I'm a bit unsure of the Bike Mek (Maybe make this a Bike Boss?), the kit of the Weirdboy, and if I should possibly make the 2nd bonebreaker a battlewagon so the Mega Nobz could shoot out of it (I could also possibly shave 1 meganob off and then put 10 gretchin in as ablative wounds).

Spoiler:

**Vineheart01**

Pretty much the only reason to use a Big Mek on Bike is to have a highly mobile KFF flouting around your fast vehicles (i.e. wagons) as it can cover 2 wagons easily if it sits between them. Also T5 makes a good deal of snipers less likely to plink at it. If it didnt move more than 6" it can fix things too.

Otherwise, not really that important.

**tneva82**

Vineheart01 wrote:
Pretty much the only reason to use a Big Mek on Bike is to have a highly mobile KFF flouting around your fast vehicles (i.e. wagons) as it can cover 2 wagons easily if it sits between them. Also T5 makes a good deal of snipers less likely to plink at it. If it didnt move more than 6" it can fix things too.

Otherwise, not really that important.

Alternative idea is ssag sniper guy if you regularly face character you really need to kill even at the expense of your ssag.

**tulun**

Vineheart01 wrote:
Pretty much the only reason to use a Big Mek on Bike is to have a highly mobile KFF flouting around your fast vehicles (i.e. wagons) as it can cover 2 wagons easily if it sits between them. Also T5 makes a good deal of snipers less likely to plink at it. If it didnt move more than 6" it can fix things too.

Otherwise, not really that important.

Think I should swap it down to a regular Big Mek for 1st turn coverage? Or just go with a Biker Warboss?

**some bloke**

Had another fun game vs ultramarines, chalked up a very, very close win. Got killpoints, and in the end I had to table him to win. The only way I managed it was with Endless Green Tide, I would have had 12 grots left without that!

I tried charging the deffkilla forward (with ramming speed and his 6" advance, he's a near enough guaranteed turn 1 charge) and it killed a couple of guys, who then walked off and shot him anyway because smurfs. so I can conclude that he is very, very much a buffing character and not intended for damage output!!! Though for units which can't fall back and shoot, he could be useful for making sure something doesn't shoot in turn 1, if you go first. Best just to keep him moving your vehicles along, methinks.

Flashgitz eat primaris pretty well. I put them in a trukk and pick a bit of cover to roll them into, and then leave it parked there for as long as there are targets. its a guarantee that they will all be able to see, and an effective way to keep them alive. use loot it when the trukk dies to give them a 3+ save (2+ in the cover you're in) and they become pretty durable!

Goff Nobs with twin choppas is pretty good, though only 3 survived to swing. they wiped 4 primaris out between them in one go.

Next thing I want is some GorkaMorkanaughts! I think they will work well with my 2-wave vehicle-rush approach!

**Singleton Mosby**

I also tried the Wartrike for the first time yesterday. Wasn't impressed at all with its performance. The idea was too give my 4 scrapjets and 3 Boost blastas a dual role and charge them into the enemy after advancing. The dual role works well with those, mainly because of the mortal wounds, but the advance only adds a couple of inch to a fast units range. Will keep it for now in my list and give it another try.

The Deafskulls klan culture for scrapjets is awesome though. It not only works in the shooting and fight phase, but is also quite neat when doing overwatch. I've been on the receiving end of them with my Nids and they really scared me a bit from charging Carnifexes into them.

SSAG performed extremely well again. It downed two Eldar plains in one turn, one of these got 24 damage! and then went on to kille more in the subsequent turns. Is it broken?

**An Actual Englishman**

Singleton Mosby wrote:
SSAG performed extremely well again. It downed two Eldar plains in one turn, one of these got 24 damage! and then went on to kille more in the subsequent turns. Is it broken?

No. Wait till you face snipers and/or roll cold with it.

**Singleton Mosby**

An Actual Englishman wrote:
Singleton Mosby wrote:
SSAG performed extremely well again. It downed two Eldar plains in one turn, one of these got 24 damage! and then went on to kille more in the subsequent turns. Is it broken?

No. Wait till you face snipers and/or roll cold with it.

Grotshield!

**Jidmah**

An Actual Englishman wrote:
Singleton Mosby wrote:
SSAG performed extremely well again. It downed two Eldar plains in one turn, one of these got 24 damage! and then went on to kille more in the subsequent turns. Is it broken?

No. Wait till you face snipers and/or roll cold with it.

You really should not deploy the SSAG within sniper range. Against the few snipers that do have more than 36" range, the grot oiler is a sufficient defense, as it tends to keep him alive for 3 turns unless you get unlucky. If all fails, use a grot shield.
Also keep in mind that orks are never beaten can also be used on the SSAG to get off a final shot with it.

But in general, for every game were the SSAG ruins the opposition it sits around and does jack for two other games. So you are basically investing those points and CP into a gamble.

I have a a half-finished piece of software that is supposed to calculate the chances of all possible SSAG results, but it can already tell me that the chance for the SSAG to do nothing at all lies at about 50% against a regular vehicle profile (T7, no invul) - not including low damage results where you plonk off just one or two wounds.

**some bloke**

Singleton Mosby wrote:
I also tried the Wartrike for the first time yesterday. Wasn't impressed at all with its performance. The idea was too give my 4 scrapjets and 3 Boost blastas a dual role and charge them into the enemy after advancing. The dual role works well with those, mainly because of the mortal wounds, but the advance only adds a couple of inch to a fast units range. Will keep it for now in my list and give it another try.

The Deafskulls klan culture for scrapjets is awesome though. It not only works in the shooting and fight phase, but is also quite neat when doing overwatch. I've been on the receiving end of them with my Nids and they really scared me a bit from charging Carnifexes into them.

SSAG performed extremely well again. It downed two Eldar plains in one turn, one of these got 24 damage! and then went on to kille more in the subsequent turns. Is it broken?

I'm now certain his sole purpose is support - he's not there for damage output.

I enjoyed using him with 2 bonebreakas and 3 deff dreads, for a turn 1 charge (ramming speed on whichever bonebreaker got closest) and a subsequent mop-up from the dreads.

Interestingly (and in keeping with the backward way orks and speed freeks work these days) he is of much greater use for dreads, kans and other slow vehicles than he is for the faster stuff. giving a dread a 6+D6" move is a much bigger improvement than giving a bonebreaka a 12+D6" move. The bonebreaka has every chance of doing fine without him.

Running dreads this game, after the wartrike died, they seemed so slow. When they finally got into range, I was hit by a wave of disappointment as I realised that they had advanced to do so. next turn, marines moved away. He can really be the difference between connecting or not connecting!

**An Actual Englishman**

Jidmah wrote:
An Actual Englishman wrote:
Singleton Mosby wrote:
SSAG performed extremely well again. It downed two Eldar plains in one turn, one of these got 24 damage! and then went on to kille more in the subsequent turns. Is it broken?

No. Wait till you face snipers and/or roll cold with it.

You really should not deploy the SSAG within sniper range.

A smart opponent will not give you a choice.

**Jidmah**

Can you elaborate on that?

**tneva82**

Singleton Mosby wrote:
An Actual Englishman wrote:
Singleton Mosby wrote:
SSAG performed extremely well again. It downed two Eldar plains in one turn, one of these got 24 damage! and then went on to kille more in the subsequent turns. Is it broken?

No. Wait till you face snipers and/or roll cold with it.

Grotshield!

Apart from needing like 30+ grots to save it of course means your lootas are dead then. Not bad tradeoff.

And of course you don't always roll 24 wounds. That's waaaay above average. You average about 3 or so hits at S7. Vs non-modifier. And if you use the more dakka that was 4CP for ~6 hits(2 targets) at S7 in average. Plus 1 more for grot screen.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jidmah wrote:
Can you elaborate on that?

Many snipers have ability to deploy outside their own deployment zone. Unless ork player has designed terrain there's not unlimited # of places you can deploy without LOS becoming issue sooner than 36" range so he can position himself into suitable spot. So either you then hit into issue with LOS and opponent can avoid SSAG fire by LOS or you are within range of sniper.

I don't recall when I had more trouble with range than LOS with 36" weapon. It's the 24" on infantry model that has range issues.

**addnid**

Vindicare assassin has 72' range, primaris marine snipers can ignore LOS so with the current ETC table models, they will reach your SSAG (don't know their exact range though).

I guess we see less of that Vindi muvafokar now that "optimised Imperium" means marines, and marines need to be "pure" to really be OP