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Not to mention no ork would call a single big gun on a wagon a "gunwagon"

If it were true to how an ork would call it such, that thing would probably have 2-3 Killkannons or Mek Gunz or just a gakton of Rokkits aka "Rack o' Rokkitz" being a single gun that just fires multiple rokkits, perhaps at slightly better range.

It wouldnt have transport capacity because it would have too many guns on it. Not that the transport capacity means anything anyway, really all its useful for is swiping your warlord SAG away if hes in danger (done that with the SupaKannon wagon, was hilarious to see Slay the Warlord slip from my opponent's grasp) or holding a squad of Grots that come out to be a speedbump.

T8, no transport, maybe moves 8" instead of 12 to signify how overloaded it is, and houses 3 of those listed guns for about ~180-200pts, if it moves less than 4" (half its speed) it can fire one of them twice (allows for variation depending on the situation). I'd use it lol.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Personally i think the gunwagon just has the wrong type of guns to justify its performance, cost not really a factor.
Killkannons have 24 range so its gonna get shot by anti-vehicle crap and not much you can do about it, kannons are more of a "i have 15pts lying around and a wagon already" weapon, not worth doublefiring it. Zzaps are just flatout bad.

Agree, with one shoot zzaps are a joke, kannons have never been anything but a fifth rokkit.

If you could load it with a lobba, killkannon, stikkbomb chukka and four big shootas and then EVERYTHING would shoot twice when it moves slowly... now we're talking.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Not to mention no ork would call a single big gun on a wagon a "gunwagon"

I have an extra set of turrets for three of my wagons, because you could have both a killkannon and a kannon under the previous codices. Sadly, they removed that option.

I mean they do D6 damage instead of 3 so they are functionally different this time around.
Bout all that means is its another weapon Deathskullz would want to fire lol

I don't ever see myself taking it over the killkannon though.

Killkannon is a way better gun. D6 shoota shots or 1 Rokkit is a Bit of a joke vs d6 rokkits.

I can deal with the range. Shame it cuts capacity on a battlewagon

Literally the only time i'll take a kannon over a killkannon is if its on a regular wagon, since the killkannon reduces transport to 12.
But on a bonebreaker/gunwagon, its already 12 anyway.

 Jidmah wrote:
Yesterday my speed freeks managed a clear win against the Ultramarines (15:6 VP maelstrom) despite me doing a ton of playing errors.
SJD and the two KBB did very well, scrap jet was outplayed by my opponent. Wartrike was bad.
The Morkanaut did ok, the bonebreakers much less so, but mostly due to my fault.
Warbikers probably won me the game with their first turn assault, though their cost plus 4CP to do so is hard to justify when you compare them to da jumping boyz or storm boyz.
Basically I pinned the ultramarines in their deployment zone for the entire game, while Calgar and an unkillable Leviathan ground through my entire army. My gretchin scored objectives all over the board and won the game.

I took some pictures, so I can do a thorough battle report if anyone wants that.

I'd love to see that list if you wouldn't mind.

Pics and BR would be great at well!

Gruxz wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Yesterday my speed freeks managed a clear win against the Ultramarines (15:6 VP maelstrom) despite me doing a ton of playing errors.
SJD and the two KBB did very well, scrap jet was outplayed by my opponent. Wartrike was bad.
The Morkanaut did ok, the bonebreakers much less so, but mostly due to my fault.
Warbikers probably won me the game with their first turn assault, though their cost plus 4CP to do so is hard to justify when you compare them to da jumping boyz or storm boyz.
Basically I pinned the ultramarines in their deployment zone for the entire game, while Calgar and an unkillable Leviathan ground through my entire army. My gretchin scored objectives all over the board and won the game.

I took some pictures, so I can do a thorough battle report if anyone wants that.

I'd love to see that list if you wouldn't mind.

Pics and BR would be great at well!

My list:


Battle Report Speed Freeks vs Ultramarines can be found here

My takeaways from that game is
- KBB are actually quite good, both of them made their points back
- SJD must be used with care, they are very powerful, but die very quickly. Might use exhaust cloud on it next time
- If I have points left, I will be using killsaws instead of PKs wherever possible. Guaranteed kills on primaris is worth two points
- Warbikers are better than expected 4+/T5/2W does a lot better in combat against primaris than regular boyz
- Wartrike has the combat ability of a weird boy, not of a warboss
- Even in mech lists, you need a weird boy, as it's our only reliable source of mortal wounds
- Spend CP based on what you are trying to kill, not base on the unit you are targeting with the stratagem
- Don't try to get two bonebreakas, a naut, a wartrike and a buggy across one bridge, if the other side is full of marines
- Don't try to kill, fight or go near Primaris Calagar. His durability and combat ability is insane, even if he is not buffed with might of heros.
- Feth Vitrix Honor Guard

Evil Sunz SSAG? well thats interesting. I see why you did it (4th FA slot needed and Mork being in the Dread Waaagh detachment while still being able to KFF protect the other things) but it still strikes me as weird lol.

So KBBs are good? i havnt used mine that much and the few times i did it just goes boom thanks to its laughably short range. People in my area are paranoid of flamers, even if theyre the S4 Ap0 variant for some reason.

Im guessing you didnt face ANY autocannon type weapons with those bikers. Thats whats stopped me from using them, even just 8 auto shots a turn is enough to completely neuter bikers since they lack the range (and speed relative to footprint) to avoid the shots.

Hey, I’m possibly going to start looking into Orks soon and I was curious whether a Nob army is viable. I’d like to run something that looks like Ghazghkull and his elite.

I’m also not exactly sure what’s particularly viable for Orks in terms of anti-tank when you don’t want normal Orks. Mek Gunz?

Thanks in advance

Nobs are, unfortunately, hard to run currently. They're basically easier to kill Marines, in a meta where killing Marines is a top priority. This might change when CA drops, if they get a good point drop, but right now you're better off running Boyz.

Mek Gunz, particularly Smashas, are your go-to for dealing with vehicles (if you don't wanna run Tankbustas), but you'll also probably want to field a SSAG and some regular SAGs. 3 of them on the board gives you a lot of anti-armor, and with 6-12 Smashas, you'll lay waste to most vehicle-heavy lists.

If you're new to Orkz, I wouldn't field Goffs (and Ghaz). Run Deathskullz, they're very "newbie" friendly. Build a CP Battery out of a Dreadwaagh Battalion with a SSAG, Weirdboy (with Da Jump), and 3×10 Gretchin, and 6 Smashas. Field a unit of 30 Boyz, 2x10 Gretchin, another Weirdboy (Warpath), 15 Lootas, and a SAG. That should give you a solid baseline (I don't got my book in front of me, but I estimate about 1200 pts spent here), with some room to include some Buggies, Warbikers, or anything else you might want to field.

 flandarz wrote:
Nobs are, unfortunately, hard to run currently. They're basically easier to kill Marines, in a meta where killing Marines is a top priority. This might change when CA drops, if they get a good point drop, but right now you're better off running Boyz.

Mek Gunz, particularly Smashas, are your go-to for dealing with vehicles (if you don't wanna run Tankbustas), but you'll also probably want to field a SSAG and some regular SAGs. 3 of them on the board gives you a lot of anti-armor, and with 6-12 Smashas, you'll lay waste to most vehicle-heavy lists.

If you're new to Orkz, I wouldn't field Goffs (and Ghaz). Run Deathskullz, they're very "newbie" friendly. Build a CP Battery out of a Dreadwaagh Battalion with a SSAG, Weirdboy (with Da Jump), and 3×10 Gretchin, and 6 Smashas. Field a unit of 30 Boyz, 2x10 Gretchin, another Weirdboy (Warpath), 15 Lootas, and a SAG. That should give you a solid baseline (I don't got my book in front of me, but I estimate about 1200 pts spent here), with some room to include some Buggies, Warbikers, or anything else you might want to field.

Thanks for the reply and that all sounds like good stuff

What is an SSAG/SAG?

A SSAG is a Shokk Attack Gun Mek with the Souped-Up Shokka. A SAG is just a normal Shokk Attack Gun Mek.

Great thanks!

EDIT: Sorry for an extra noob question, how do you give him the Supped up shokka?

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Evil Sunz SSAG? well thats interesting. I see why you did it (4th FA slot needed and Mork being in the Dread Waaagh detachment while still being able to KFF protect the other things) but it still strikes me as weird lol.

He did better than most deff skulls SSAGs I've run so far
However, if I'm going to run this list again, it will be completely deff skulls. The extra speed from evil suns didn't really matter outside of the first turn bonebreaka charge, while I definitely could have used that extra damage and the 6++ on many occasions. You definitely want the re-rolls on the morkanauts and buggies weapons, and it doesn't hurt for the PK/Killsaw either.

So KBBs are good? i havnt used mine that much and the few times i did it just goes boom thanks to its laughably short range. People in my area are paranoid of flamers, even if theyre the S4 Ap0 variant for some reason.

The rivet gun is what makes them great. It reliable kills primaris and damages vehicles, I only used the burnas when there happened to be a unit nearby, and I don't think those and the stikkbomb/grotblasta did more than 2 damage combined. The ram is a trap, with WS4+ and no AP, it has no business being in combat.
The way to get the most out of it is probably park it next to some chaff objective holders, stay far away from anything dangerous and then shoot the rivet gun at high value targets.

Im guessing you didnt face ANY autocannon type weapons with those bikers. Thats whats stopped me from using them, even just 8 auto shots a turn is enough to completely neuter bikers since they lack the range (and speed relative to footprint) to avoid the shots.

If you look at the battle report, they were locked in combat starting turn 1, my opponent never once got the chance to shoot them. They basically take the same role as da jump boyz or storm boyz, but are much more reliable to get their charge and arrest off and more durable in combat. In exchange, they cost more points (245 points) and 5 CP for the detachment and the two stratagems.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Great thanks!

EDIT: Sorry for an extra noob question, how do you give him the Supped up shokka?

It's in the Vigilus book. Part of the Dread Waagh specialist detachement.

Ah awesome thanks! Orks seem really fun.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Ah awesome thanks! Orks seem really fun.

Hi T,

If you are keen on running Nobz, you might want to consider Flash Gitz - they have a Nob stat line, and are more durable if you put them in a Trukk. I have had some success with infantry Nobz, they can put out a good number of melee attacks at S5 if you give them two Choppa, and melee vehicles if you give them Big Choppa. Once again a Trukk helps them survive longer. Nob Bikerz have three wounds each, Which is tougher than two wound Bike Boyz, and Men’s also have the Nob Stat line, so Shokk Attack guns fit the theme.

Whatever you decide to go with, start small, and make sure you are happy with _ your _ army, as the current crop of Codex releases can put out a lot of attacks that hurt Nobz. It’s easier to live with defeats if you can appreciate your Orks for there story, rather than just how competitive they are.

Cheers,

M

Nobz are already 14ppm, they can't be cheaper than that. However pks could drop to 9pts like imperial power fists making them possibly cheaper and maybe meganobz could get a small price drop on their basic cost as well. Flash gitz also maybe. But nobz? Definitely not.

A unit of nobz in a trukk isn't bad at all if you run other vehicles for target saturation. If their vehicle is wrecked investing that CP to make them 3+ could be worthy.

https://imgur.com/a/1n4MuR6

Ca 2019 points leaks, if orks don´t get some love I´ll lose my fething mind.

 Blackie wrote:
Nobz are already 14ppm, they can't be cheaper than that. However pks could drop to 9pts like imperial power fists making them possibly cheaper and maybe meganobz could get a small price drop on their basic cost as well. Flash gitz also maybe. But nobz? Definitely not.

A unit of nobz in a trukk isn't bad at all if you run other vehicles for target saturation. If their vehicle is wrecked investing that CP to make them 3+ could be worthy.

Why can't? Marines have better stats and rules for around that price. Onlv reason can't cost less is orks are supposed to have inferior rules and die like good npc race is supposed to do

So I have a, most likely, terrible list idea.

tneva82 wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Nobz are already 14ppm, they can't be cheaper than that. However pks could drop to 9pts like imperial power fists making them possibly cheaper and maybe meganobz could get a small price drop on their basic cost as well. Flash gitz also maybe. But nobz? Definitely not.

A unit of nobz in a trukk isn't bad at all if you run other vehicles for target saturation. If their vehicle is wrecked investing that CP to make them 3+ could be worthy.

Why can't? Marines have better stats and rules for around that price. Onlv reason can't cost less is orks are supposed to have inferior rules and die like good npc race is supposed to do

SM are overpowered and undercosted, that's not a fair comparison. IMHO intercessors should be 24-25ppm. Compare nobz to boyz or other specialists instead.

Boyz are overpriced as well.

And marines ain't going to that level ever as would reduce models players need to buy. As such they are now the yardstick to measure against. Gw will make others cheaper instead if anything to make people buy more, not sell excess

Not exactly an easy analog since boyz have S4, 2A, 6+ save and Nobz have S5, 3A, 2W, 4+ save.
They are more than simply a boy with +1wound.
Problem is 4+ save is not really easy to get through and unlike Primaris none of our nobz have access to both decent shooting and melee at the same time. Their guns more than DOUBLE their price and offer rather low output compared to....anything not just marines lol.

And i know this sounds weird coming from an ork player but i kinda wish they'd buff our stuff rather than make it cheaper. Its already a bit irritating to run 40+ models that are basically cannonfodder and 60-90 more that arent much better. Wont happen but i still wish it.
Find it rather taxing on my patience that all the CA leaks have been 100% devoid of ANY ork leaks. Though seeing the recent Nid updates....im not expecting anything. GW has for sure gone back to their old issues of "xenos get nothing" - that nid reveal made me cringe....

 Emicrania wrote:
https://imgur.com/a/1n4MuR6

Ca 2019 points leaks, if orks don´t get some love I´ll lose my fething mind.

Yeah, I just wanna know what's going on. Terminators dropping to 26 points makes me excited that stuff like Mega Nobz are about to get some real love. If we drop below 30, maybe we can field them competitively.

Sounds like Xenos may be getting hosed, though. Nids players seemed... upset.

Is it also a good / bad sign that the new marines got changes? Could it mean they were making updates closer to the fall?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Not exactly an easy analog since boyz have S4, 2A, 6+ save and Nobz have S5, 3A, 2W, 4+ save.
They are more than simply a boy with +1wound.
Problem is 4+ save is not really easy to get through and unlike Primaris none of our nobz have access to both decent shooting and melee at the same time. Their guns more than DOUBLE their price and offer rather low output compared to....anything not just marines lol.

And i know this sounds weird coming from an ork player but i kinda wish they'd buff our stuff rather than make it cheaper. Its already a bit irritating to run 40+ models that are basically cannonfodder and 60-90 more that arent much better.

Agreed on improvements. Games just take longer when you field 120+ models.

I think Kustom Shootas are actually a decent upgrade for 2 points, but those are being taken away for whatever bloody reason.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Not exactly an easy analog since boyz have S4, 2A, 6+ save and Nobz have S5, 3A, 2W, 4+ save.
They are more than simply a boy with +1wound.

Yeah, that's why they can't be just 4-5ppm than a regular boy. +7ppm or 2x a regular boy sounds about right IMHO. In fact I wish they were even more expensive than now but more killy. 10-12 ppm nobz? Lol.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

And i know this sounds weird coming from an ork player but i kinda wish they'd buff our stuff rather than make it cheaper. Its already a bit irritating to run 40+ models that are basically cannonfodder and 60-90 more that arent much better. Wont happen but i still wish it.
Find it rather taxing on my patience that all the CA leaks have been 100% devoid of ANY ork leaks. Though seeing the recent Nid updates....im not expecting anything. GW has for sure gone back to their old issues of "xenos get nothing" - that nid reveal made me cringe....

I 100% agree. Better stats, not cheaper units. I think than only the new buggies, MA big mek, runtherd and the stompa should go down in points. Some wargear also. But anything else that looks overpriced (walkers, burnas, nobz... but also naked lootas and bustas without stratagems) should simply be more effective.

Would that be the day...

Nid players (such as myself) are not upset, no. We are so filled with nerd rage (and nerd worrying about what sort of gak is coming out of the rumor tube in the next few days), that upset just doesn’t cut it.
I personally am going to my local GW store, and I am going to give the “Korn - Singles” treatment (watch that music video on YouTube if you are too young to know what I am on about)

If the leak about CSMs going to 11 ppm is true, then I don't see why Nobz can't be similarly priced.

We ain't gonna see no rules revisions for a few years, so while I'd also prefer better rules, I'll settle for more appropriately costed units until then.