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Buggies being cheaper is nice. Definitely expected.

Stompa not dropping a ton is such a joke.

Stompa i am convinced they dont want people to use legitimately, just use it as a joke army because its so dang old it aesthetically doesnt really fit much anymore.
Not even that great in Apocalypse tbh, where most uber big things are surprisingly good.

I wouldnt put it past them the moment that mold breaks or stops producing remotely acceptable casts they'll shelf the stompa instantly.

Yeah, Stompa needed a HUGE drop to be viable. Even fully kitted out it shouldn't be more than maybe 600.

I'd be more convinced they didn't want people to use it as a legitimate choice if they hadn't busted out the (Deamon) primarchs and given Knights their own codex. As it stands it's just a needless insult to Orks who don't get a proper LoW when other's do. Not that I'd personally use one in a 2000 point game mind you.

TBH the Garg squiggoth seems okay. Just not knight good.

 flandarz wrote:
Yeah, Stompa needed a HUGE drop to be viable. Even fully kitted out it shouldn't be more than maybe 600.

Fully kitted out a Stompa is right about 600pts, maybe less since it doesn't have a natural Invuln save. The fact that a Knight is almost as good at 1/3rd the cost should tell you something. Honestly, I have resisted buying one for 2 reasons. 1: They honestly don't look that good and 2: They suck, and have sucked for so long that its almost a running joke at this point. I remember in 6th when people were doing 1Vs1 Battles of a Stompa against other super heavies of similar points and the stompa NEVER won.

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:


I find nobs fairly priced. PKlaws could use a drop, even bchoppas, but not the base nob.

Points sink comes.from the bonebreaker. 159 is too much. 130-140 is where it shoud be.

A Nob is 14pts and has less movement, ballistic skill, save and leadership then a Marine who is now 11pts but has -1 strength and -2 attacks. So Nobz are significantly better at CC then SM's but are less durable, suck at range and are slower. Ohh and more expensive. Nobz are in a bad spot because they are just better boyz but are so much more expensive that they aren't worth the price increase. For 1 nob you can have 2 Boyz, and more importantly, when slammed with a 2Dmg weapon with -1+ AP you still only lose 1 boy compared to a Nob. And realistically in this edition 2dmg weapons aren't exactly...rare.

BoneBreakers would be fine at 159 if they had a 2+ save or a 3+ save with more attacks. I don't like the solution of always lowering points cost when you can just buff stats to adjust the unit. A Bonebreaker is great if it had a bit more durability and attacks. But, if a points drop had to happen instead of a buff I would say its closer to 120pts.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
having being on the receiving end of a mass of Powerfists with my knight, trust me that many klaws can still wreck a knight's day.
Its only issue is its 4s all around, and 50-50 odds sometimes flops completely.

A knight is T8 and has 24 wounds on a 3+ save. A Nob with a PK is 3 attacks hitting on 4s at S10 with -3 AP and average damage of 2. So a Single nob with a PK does 1.5 hits, 1 wound and 1.66 damage a turn, in order to kill a Knight in a single assault phase you would need 15 nobz with PKs which costs 405pts. You also need transports to get them into range or a lot of CP to teleporta them or A weirdboy to Da Jump them, but in overwatch a knight can easily toast a few Nobz so really you need about 18-20 Nobz to average a Knight kill a turn.

I would be fine with PKs staying at the current price but upgrading them to not have -1 to hit and giving them a Flat 3 damage. you could make a Killsaw do 3D2 damage to differentiate the two. so guaranteed 3dmg but likely 4+.

The gist of it is that Knights aren't afraid of Nobz as it currently stands.

SemperMortis wrote:
A Nob is 14pts and has less movement, ballistic skill, save and leadership then a Marine who is now 11pts but has -1 strength and -2 attacks. So Nobz are significantly better at CC then SM's but are less durable, suck at range and are slower. Ohh and more expensive. Nobz are in a bad spot because they are just better boyz but are so much more expensive that they aren't worth the price increase. For 1 nob you can have 2 Boyz, and more importantly, when slammed with a 2Dmg weapon with -1+ AP you still only lose 1 boy compared to a Nob. And realistically in this edition 2dmg weapons aren't exactly...rare.

For the -2 attack did you factor in marines having the shock attack rule? That's extra attack right there.

Very, very few point reductions. But I saw big mek cfk in there, so will we be allowed to keep him and ditch mega armour big mek ? I didn’t see our boss variants, so I am hopeful that cfk big mek gets a pass on becoming legend. Which is logical as he has a fairly recent and good looking GW model

Though flash bitz seem to have gone down 4, 5 or 6 ppm. That is

Ork points:
New Entry Big Mek with Kustom Force Field(!!!) at 55
SAG mek, warboss, weird boy and MA mek stay the same

Boyz 7
Gretchin 3

Snazzwagon 75 (-20)
Deffkopta 20 (-10)
Kustom Boosta-Blastas 80 (-20)
Megatrakk Scrapjet 80 (-10)
Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy 100 (-40)
Shokkjump Dragsta 90 (-18)
Stormboyz 9
Warbikers 23

Burnaboyz 10 (-2)
Kommandoz 8
Meganobz 20
Mek 22
Banner nob 75
Nobz 14
Nob bikers 33 (-5)
Painboy 52
Runtherd 35
Tankbusta 5
Bombsquig 10

Battlewagon 120
Bonebreaka 140
Deff Dread 45 (-10)
Flash Gitz 24 (-6)
Gorkanaut 250
Gunwagon 140
Killa Karn 30 (-10)
Lootas 17
Mek Gun 15
Morkanaut 220

Trukk 59

Blitza-bommer 104 (-4)
Burna-bommer 102
Dakkajet 88
Wazbom 99

Stompa 800 (-50)

Smasha 18 (+2)
Skorcha Missile 5 (-15)
No changes to any weapons as far as I can tell. The new model for PA might be the a new KFF mek.

100 pts for the Squigbuggy is probably STILL over costed. But, as we thought, most of our FA stuff DID drop in cost, so that's good.

Burnas at 10ppm and Kanz at 30ppm... viable? What do you guys think?

 Jidmah wrote:
Ork points:
New Entry Big Mek with Kustom Force Field(!!!) at 55

The new model for PA might be the a new KFF mek.

Agreed. This is great news, it really helps us compete.

Ghazzy the same = no new model?

Nob Bikes dropping is nice, it's not enough but at least they see there's an issue.

Disappointed Warbikes didn't drop but the drop in Buggies makes up for it.

I've gained a fair few points, probably enough to change my Warbikes into Nob Bikes and could be massive.

Burna Boys are still not viable.
The Stompa is still not viable.

Kans are still not viable but are probably casual-friendly now.

E - Flash Gits dropping 6ppm is massive. Here's our Marine killers.

E2 - Did Smashas stay the same?! Really?! Lol. GW wants their money.

The Smasha weapon on the Mek Gunz might go up still.

I honestly think Burnas might work as a good Distraction Carnifex, since you could field 12 in a Trukk for less than 200 pts.


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Also: I can't believe Nobz didn't drop in price, after CSM got down to 11ppm.

 flandarz wrote:
The Smasha weapon on the Mek Gunz might go up still.

I honestly think Burnas might work as a good Distraction Carnifex, since you could field 12 in a Trukk for less than 200 pts.


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Also: I can't believe Nobz didn't drop in price, after CSM got down to 11ppm.

This. What is missing is :
-2 to nobz
-5 to Klaw
-2 to burna
- 3 to warbike
- 1/2 BC
-200 to the fething stompa.

Flash gitz at last might become a thing. Deff koptas might also become a thing, not sure how to use them though, but cheap per wound now.
Too bad so much of our other stuff is stuck at a much too high price.

I honestly thought the hauts would get something, but ok just the deff dreads then...

Very surprised that our shock attack gunz and mek gunz didn’t get nerfed (2 ppm per model for the gunz yeah ok that is fair)

-10 for koptas is fairly njce. I've been using them recently to grab objectives/recon/behind enemy lines etc and they do decently.

 Jidmah wrote:
Ork points:
New Entry Big Mek with Kustom Force Field(!!!) at 55


E2 - Did Smashas stay the same?! Really?! Lol. GW wants their money.

No they cost 18 pts now, 2 pts up. Not much of a difference.


.

Gruxz wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Ork points:
New Entry Big Mek with Kustom Force Field(!!!) at 55


E2 - Did Smashas stay the same?! Really?! Lol. GW wants their money.

No they cost 18 pts now, 2 pts up. Not much of a difference.


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 Jidmah wrote:
Ork points:
New Entry Big Mek with Kustom Force Field(!!!) at 55


E2 - Did Smashas stay the same?! Really?! Lol. GW wants their money.

No they cost 18 pts now, 2 pts up. Not much of a difference.

Just laziness From GW I think

Math on 12 Burna in trukk:
182 point for 12W T4 6+ and 10W t6 4+ 6++(you know is not, but yeah)

10 dead Guardsmen 22% ROI
4 dead Marines 33% ROI
2 dead Primaris 22% ROI
4 dead Drones 24% ROI

So you get your points back IF you can shoot 3 times or go bananas and go CC T2 (good luck with that)
In CC you get

5 Dead Guardsmen 16,5% ROI
2 Dead Marines 25% ROI
1 Dead Primaris 16,5% ROI
1 Dead Drone 9% ROI

So your target are OG marines or elves. Eitherwise you ll never get your points back

 flandarz wrote:
The Smasha weapon on the Mek Gunz might go up still.

I just checked the actual list for all the weapons of interest plus some random weapons, but all stayed the same. The image was blurry, so I misread the smasha.

addnid wrote:
Flash gitz at last might become a thing. Deff koptas might also become a thing, not sure how to use them though, but cheap per wound now.
Too bad so much of our other stuff is stuck at a much too high price.

I honestly thought the hauts would get something, but ok just the deff dreads then...

Very surprised that our shock attack gunz and mek gunz didn’t get nerfed (2 ppm per model for the gunz yeah ok that is fair)

Flashgitz with no bonuses, backed by Badrukk, have 75% ROI vs primaris, it is the best thing we have in the whole codex to kill primaris, Lootas by comparison have 23% and need a gakload of CP and are locked in BM.
You can have Badrukk and FG in a Evil Sunz battallion and you are still good to go. The only problem is that you wont benefit to Grot shield or +1 to hit.

So many things I don't understand from that list...O will not even begin.

Maybe PA brings some light into it

 Emicrania wrote:

addnid wrote:
Flash gitz at last might become a thing. Deff koptas might also become a thing, not sure how to use them though, but cheap per wound now.
Too bad so much of our other stuff is stuck at a much too high price.

I honestly thought the hauts would get something, but ok just the deff dreads then...

Very surprised that our shock attack gunz and mek gunz didn’t get nerfed (2 ppm per model for the gunz yeah ok that is fair)

Flashgitz with no bonuses, backed by Badrukk, have 75% ROI vs primaris, it is the best thing we have in the whole codex to kill primaris, Lootas by comparison have 23% and need a gakload of CP and are locked in BM.
You can have Badrukk and FG in a Evil Sunz battallion and you are still good to go. The only problem is that you wont benefit to Grot shield or +1 to hit.

Yep good analysis. I plan on letting them get shot anyway so. Let the trukk and loot it strat protect em. will be running 30 from now on I think (for at least a few games)
Btw I am convinced we have the frontline gaming guy to thank for (or friend of one of the FLG guys) who owns (or so I heard) 60 of these flash gitz models he loves them so much. That and of course the “fairly new model” syndrom

Absolutely hyped about Flash Gitz, I've been trying to make them happen in games and the points drops have effectively given them a trukk.

Deffkoptas change is really interesting imo, I've been running MSU deffkoptas as deathskullz and get a lot of value out of that. This makes running the deathskulls brigade at least 30 points cheaper too.
I think this point drop could make running large units of deffkoptas in other klans worth running. Evil Sunz and bad moonz could milk this.

The drop to buggies is really cool. I saw some tourney lists running megatrakk scrapjets before. It may very well be worth it to run buggies. They still have the same weaknesses but you can squeeze more redundant buggies.

The drops to deff dreads is nice, I think it'll make them more enticing, especially for dakka dreads with kustom mega blastas.

Killa kans drop I like but I don't think it'll matter. They still need babysitting to matter. Maybe running 18 killa kans will be weirdly effective for the raw number of cheap wounds, similar to admech breachers.

The complete lack of changes to FW units hurts. I struggle to run them in casual games now.

 Emicrania wrote:
Math on 12 Burna in trukk:
182 point for 12W T4 6+ and 10W t6 4+ 6++(you know is not, but yeah)

10 dead Guardsmen 22% ROI
4 dead Marines 33% ROI
2 dead Primaris 22% ROI
4 dead Drones 24% ROI

So you get your points back IF you can shoot 3 times or go bananas and go CC T2 (good luck with that)
In CC you get

5 Dead Guardsmen 16,5% ROI
2 Dead Marines 25% ROI
1 Dead Primaris 16,5% ROI
1 Dead Drone 9% ROI

So your target are OG marines or elves. Eitherwise you ll never get your points back

Like I said, I feel like they would work well as a "Distraction Carnifex". I don't really expect them to give me a good RoI, but they should be threatening enough that your opponent wouldn't want them running around. I'd probably put 10+KFF Mek and Oil Grot in a Trukk for about 250 pts, which should give it a bit more durability and make it a more tempting target.

Another thing I missed is Skorcha Missiles going to 5 points, from 20, making it a pretty decent weapon instead of a waste of points.


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 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Nob Bikes dropping is nice, it's not enough but at least they see there's an issue.

I somehow doubt dropping them by 5 points fixes them. Even with big choppas, they are not going to kill three times their number in primaris marines to make up for their points.


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 flandarz wrote:
Like I said, I feel like they would work well as a "Distraction Carnifex". I don't really expect them to give me a good RoI, but they should be threatening enough that your opponent wouldn't want them running around. I'd probably put 10+KFF Mek and Oil Grot in a Trukk for about 250 pts, which should give it a bit more durability and make it a more tempting target.

For 250 points you could just run a bonebreaka boyz inside...

That's a fair point, but I'm under no delusions that a Burna Trukk is optimal. I'm just making an argument that it's viable. Ie: is it dangerous enough to divert fire from your Buggies, Smashas, and Gitz?


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And, if not, is it gonna be able to lay down some hurt on your opponent for ignoring it?

before this, i was on the lootaside in the "loota vs flash gitz" argument. Now i don't know anymore..
lootas are still 7ppm cheaper,
lootas are weaker, easier to remove.
shooting strentgh is the same against most targets, so ap-2 of snazzguns is nice
range of lootas is still a big + to me

and i have a lot of loota models and no flash gitz...

That feels really weird only having 2 wargear options change, especially since a lot of them are overpriced.
NONE of our characters dropped? good grief... or bikers? least nobbikers might be enticing now.

Either way, super glad to see buggies and koptas drop. Still not sure if i wanna use Koptas since Rokkits are 24pts still but i dont feel like im wasting points now using them.

Also stompa only -50 LOL good one gw...

 Vineheart01 wrote:
That feels really weird only having 2 wargear options change, especially since a lot of them are overpriced.
NONE of our characters dropped? good grief... or bikers? least nobbikers might be enticing now.

Either way, super glad to see buggies and koptas drop. Still not sure if i wanna use Koptas since Rokkits are 24pts still but i dont feel like im wasting points now using them.

Also stompa only -50 LOL good one gw...

I am actually Ok with the stompa price. It's an outdated model with a quality design according to its time. Having a profile for narrative is cool, otherwise it should not stomp a tabletop, too much out of scale.

Bikers are a big let down. I was expecting a minimum drop to 20. Nob bikers at 33 are still too much. 28 would be their fair value. Actually, a kopta with 2xbshoota will be 30pts and will be far better than a biker.

Completely agree with the weapon point values. Bshootas too expensive. Rokkits, even more. Powerklaws, don't get me started with them.


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Buggies drop is nice, as it's the gitzs. However , can shake off the feeling that thay are pushing the new kits down our throats

 flandarz wrote:
That's a fair point, but I'm under no delusions that a Burna Trukk is optimal. I'm just making an argument that it's viable. Ie: is it dangerous enough to divert fire from your Buggies, Smashas, and Gitz?


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And, if not, is it gonna be able to lay down some hurt on your opponent for ignoring it?

Ok, let me put it in another way. For 240 you now get 3 KBB which have 12 burnas built in, plus three rivet guns and more wounds. That's strictly better than a burna trukk.

In any case, burnas are a unit which doesn't function on any point value, as they are just a sidegrade to ork boyz minus all the advantages of being troops (CP, filling mandatory slots, obsec). Any time you bring them, you can just replace them 1:1 with boyz and have a superior army.

At which point your question becomes: Would anyone shoot a unit of trukkboyz over buggies, smashas or gitz? Of course they won't.


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Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:
I am actually Ok with the stompa price. It's an outdated model with a quality design according to its time. Having a profile for narrative is cool, otherwise it should not stomp a tabletop, too much out of scale.

I disagree. It was released at the same time as the plastic baneblade and should be just as viable.