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Sorry Semper, but I wont go into your arguments regarding dreads in detail. I have sufficiently explained why I refuse to compare one codex to another. SM and all their fancy supplements are all but irrelevant while you get your but handed by an Eldar army. Ork units must work in the context of the ork army and not in the context of the space marine army.

Dreads already were seeing play as deff skulls with dual KMB or as evil suns melee monsters that tellyport in - even at top tables, unlike SM dreads. They were pushed out of that role by gorkanauts (which were then pushed out by tank bustas), but with a price drop they might make a comeback. If vehicle heavy lists become competitive, dreads might benefit from that, as well.

As for kanz, even with -10 points you only get a single rokkit/kmb shot out of one for 42/39 points. That simply doesn't compare well to any other shooting unit, even if you make them shoot twice with a stratagem.

In regard to burnas - I think everyone agrees that they can't be fixed by point drops, and CA simply doesn't do anything but drop points.

 flandarz wrote:
I like to run my Deathskullz Dreadz with 1 Klaw, 2 Sawz, and 1 KMB. That gives it a hard-hitting ranged weapon, and it still gets 5 attacks in CC, for a fair price tag.

You mentioned the weapon load-out Semper, but how do SM Dreads and Ork Dreadz measure up in their statblock? That could make them more even, if the Dread is tougher. Also, the difference. Between S12 and S10 is really only gonna matter against T6 targets (T9 will matter against T5, but those are fairly rare from what I've seen).

Stats wise the SM Dread is the same except it has better BS and Strength and leadership. Basically the Ork dread is worse then a SM equivalent, which brings me into Jidmah's comment.

You have, and while I disagree I will respect that, however I will point out that in the context of OUR codex we have really 1 useful stratagem for Dreadz, and that is tellyporta striking them. SM's have a plethora of reroll auras which allow those dreads to be a lot more reliable, they also have access to a number of ranged options which synergize well within their codex where as the dreadz are only useful for a tellyporta assault. I honestly think the Ork Dread should be BASE attacks at 4 not 2, if you fully loadout that monster with CC weapons it should be getting 8 attacks not 6. And realistically, it doesn't see top table time. It does in smaller tournaments but in major events it just doesn't show up that often.

Played today against Salamanders with this list.


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [50 PL, -1CP, 929pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Evil Sunz

+ HQ +

Warboss [4 PL, 90pts]: Attack Squig, Brutal but Kunnin, Da Killa Klaw, Kombi-Rokkit, Power Klaw, Warlord

Weirdboy [3 PL, -1CP, 62pts]: 3. Da Jump, 4. Fists of Gork, Warphead

+ Troops +

Boyz [11 PL, 223pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Power Klaw
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Boyz [11 PL, 223pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Power Klaw
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

+ Elites +

Nobz [14 PL, 169pts]: Ammo Runt
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa

Painboy [3 PL, 65pts]: Power Klaw

+ Dedicated Transport +

Trukk [3 PL, 67pts]: Big Shoota, Wreckin' Ball

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Orks) [27 PL, 570pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Deathskulls

+ HQ +

Big Mek (Index) [5 PL, 75pts]: Choppa, Kustom Force Field

+ Elites +

Tankbustas [8 PL, 190pts]: 2x Bomb Squig
. 10x Tankbusta: 10x Rokkit Launcha

+ Fast Attack +

Deff Kopta [2 PL, 40pts]
. DeffKopta: Twin Big Shoota

Deff Kopta [2 PL, 54pts]
. DeffKopta: Kopta Rokkits

Deff Kopta [2 PL, 54pts]
. DeffKopta: Kopta Rokkits

+ Heavy Support +

Battlewagon [8 PL, 157pts]: Deff Rolla, Killkannon, Wreckin' Ball

++ Total: [77 PL, -1CP, 1,499pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

At the end of third turn, 8-8, but I surrended cuz he had his whole army and he killed me 30 boyz, 10 tankbustas, a trukk, a battlewagon and 10 nobz...

Lost against Salamanders...

30 boyz jumped into a pack of intercessors and a boss, and they didn't even kill them.

My tankbustas oneshoted (32 damage) his tank, but anyways, he was able to burn all ma team.

My nobs fought against a dreadnaught and didn't killed him, instead, they were oneshoted.

Warboss with killa klaw oneshoted his warlord, but he died cuz Salamanders paid 2 CP and burned him even in CC with that stratagem...

There is any way to win Salamanders as orks? I did some charges without LOS to avoid overwatch, I think i played well but no way.

*krumps Kebabcito with a kan flail*

Jep the are ways but 8 think with lists like you played its more than hard to beat a good salamander list


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And one thingy at the ork dreads vs sm dreads.
Wich sm dread are so freaking cheap?
I mean 45 without weapons that's 85 in minimum load out
And 93 with double kmb double klaw
I mean a normal dread sm with auto cannon ( hitting on 4+ after move) and a storm bolter + meele weapon are 104.
And the main factor we can deepstrike 3 at once
And they have ere we go and ramming speed awaible

Dreads are cheap enough now where i may finally paint/fully assemble my other 3 sitting around my shelves lol.
6 deffdreadz

edit: Hey, an ork character in blackstone fortress! Skarburn Zapdakka.
That explains why flashgitz got buffed, they probably want us to wanna buy this guy and he only likes other flash gitz or something.
No idea what his 40k counterpart rules are yet but blackstone fortress stuff seems to always get 40k equiv rules...even the ambull did

 Jidmah wrote:
There is a slim chance that they just don't want to antagonize the people who bought the fethed up finecast model even more by invalidating that model four years later.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There is a slim chance that they just don't want to antagonize the people who bought the fethed up finecast model even more by invalidating that model four years later.

what about the people that boughtthe crappy finecast model so they could run ghazghkull next to the mega armor warboss....

MABoss technically never had a model. It was only Ghaz.
They could have easily just stuck a new head in there and it would have been fine though.

My question about the new Mek with KFF is does he have any wargear options, or did they do another static loadout bullcrap because technically the original model has a choppa (wrench with an edge) and no variations? Mine is kitbashed to have a KMB....

I think the problem with deff dreads is they never do as much as you think.

A single dread ES dread with 6 attacks hits 4, wounds 3.75ish times and the unit they smack still gets an armour save a good chunk of the time. You’ll be lucky to get 2 unsaved rolls through on a real target you want dead.

The Deathskull one seems a bit better, getting closer to 5 wounds on average. But since you can only use ramming speed on a single dread, multiple aren’t so good on the tellyporta under them because of less consistent charges.

I think the slogging version with 1 KMB, klaw, 2x saw might find a place in a mechanized list under death skulls, with maybe one as DS bomb ( or a second that is there to contest / threaten but doesn’t necessarily make the charge). 89 points for that kit seems decent. But you can also get buggies now for that price...

Have people tried like 4x KMB badmoons? You get a KMB at 20 points each under that platform. About as cheap as we can get them .
81 points for that seems good?

Is putting a skorcha on my melee deff dread a good idea? I am using a snakebite army.

masterhobo wrote:
Is putting a skorcha on my melee deff dread a good idea? I am using a snakebite army.

It used to be in old editions, but given how expensive skorchas are and their short range, you'll never realistically use it in most games, since when you deep strike you'll be out of the 8" range and if you footslog it, you're extremely likely to be shot down first. At best you get to use it once per game before they get stuck in or their only nearby target is dead. You always want to go either all CCW if you're any Klan other than BM or Deffskullz.

overall pretty happy. I do think a few things are still overcosted and somebody needs to be kicked in the shins for keeping the Stompa so high in points. PK's imo should have gone down ar well, mayeb not to SM levels as nobz have more attacks and +1 str but its also our best option vs high armor.

I am happy with the buggies and will likely grab a few more. I have 1-3 of each but need to get to makign some custom 3d printed parts for them, I hate having any 2 ork models look alike and there is not enough options in any buggy kit to make enough of a difference.

on Nob bikers I hope they are ok again,. I have 30+ nob bikers and another ~100 biker boyz and would love to be able to throw them down as a biker mob without being blown off the table almost immediately.

I hate to say it, but I don't think a 5pt drop is gonna be much help for Biker Nobz. In the current meta, they're practically just as durable as Biker Boyz, but cost ya 10 more ppm. Probably needed to drop another 4-6 to be "on the level".

 flandarz wrote:
I hate to say it, but I don't think a 5pt drop is gonna be much help for Biker Nobz. In the current meta, they're practically just as durable as Biker Boyz, but cost ya 10 more ppm. Probably needed to drop another 4-6 to be "on the level".

I don't need meta leading tournament placing list out of my nob bikers... just liek set em in for a casual narrative game and not feel liek I am horribly overpowered by another casual list. I am basically a fluff bunny player fun scenarios and look forward to playing the new narrative stuff in chapter approved a lot.

Bikernobz make even less sense than warbikers compared to deffkoptas.

Same strength, on average same attacks (4 w/ choppa vs 2d3 spinnin' blades), same speed, same save, 1 less wound, no fly, and more expensive...? Wat?
Literally all they have going for them is access to Nob weapons on the entire squad. Uh...not exactly a very enticing option.

And Deff koptas can move over screens. And can guarantee a full move advance. 30 point Deff Kopta is legit good as a tagger.

Nobs can be kitted out to be threatening to more units, but it seems like people don't even use bikers to kill stuff anyway.

Because the only two ways nobz kill things is PKs or Bigchoppas.

Both of which need high numbers to be of use, and on a biker platform thats expensive as gak.

I will admit, the idea of running a handful of nobbikers with bigchoppas is alluring since bigchoppas do hurt pretty dang hard, but ... ugh that base price tag...
Bikers need their Exhaust Clouds rule back to be of use again. Its either that or make them so cheap theyre cheesy.

tulun wrote:

Have people tried like 4x KMB badmoons? You get a KMB at 20 points each under that platform. About as cheap as we can get them .
81 points for that seems good?

I run something pretty similar: 2 dreads (3rd under construction still) with 3x KMB + 1x saw, so 82 points for the whole platform. Without the saw, it's completely useless in close combat, and I would argue that little bit of strategic flexibility is worth it.

I use them as Deff Skullz. I find 1 reroll is typically enough to avoid aggressive self-injury, and being able to reroll that d6 for damage is just too good for me to give up. They have performed very well for me even before the points drop. They obliterate light vehicles, and routinely put the hurt on priority targets like Knights as well. Getting two wounds to go through from each is pretty routine. They are beefy enough that real anti-armor weapons are needed if your opponent wants to take down quickly, which means that if they do get targeted they are taking heat off my Morkanaut, transports, and buggies. You march them forward as a metal wall, intimidating AF. Once you're close, you have the option to charge in to finish off a vehicle or eat overwatch for a warboss.

I was skeptical when I first started including them, but they quickly became some of my favorite units.

i thought about doing that but at 91pts it felt overpriced to completely axe its melee potential to do that
But at 81pts, that feels a bit more plausible. At that point you might as well treat it like a slightly tougher but slower buggy, since its a mid-ranged 8w vehicle...just T7 3+ instead of T6 4+

I really need to get the other 3 dreads i got built and magnetized this time around...

That actually sounds like a lot of fun, not gonna lie. Decent at range and CC for a fair pricetag considering the durability.

Yeah, I would agree with that. 3 Plasma Cannons is solid enough.

Question is: are the 5 extra points for a Klaw for 3 attacks with +1 str, one extra AP, and +1 D worth it?

Probably not.
Bulk of what it would be in melee with are 1-2W infantry anyway.

I felt the saw was fine. I rarely actually WANT him in CC, he's always going to get more mileage zapping people from afar. Going cheap for flexibility felt better than paying more for expertise.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
MABoss technically never had a model. It was only Ghaz.
They could have easily just stuck a new head in there and it would have been fine though.

My question about the new Mek with KFF is does he have any wargear options, or did they do another static loadout bullcrap because technically the original model has a choppa (wrench with an edge) and no variations? Mine is kitbashed to have a KMB....

There used to be three metal big meks, one with KFF, one with SAG and one with KMB. I actually have the latst one lying around somewhere, but it never saw play for obvious reasons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mhalko1 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
There is a slim chance that they just don't want to antagonize the people who bought the fethed up finecast model even more by invalidating that model four years later.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There is a slim chance that they just don't want to antagonize the people who bought the fethed up finecast model even more by invalidating that model four years later.

what about the people that boughtthe crappy finecast model so they could run ghazghkull next to the mega armor warboss....

While the Thrakka model is regular finecast-bad, the KFF was exceptionally so, since the bagpack wasn't compatible with the material and all the bulbs on it just bent down. I checked multiple stores at that time, and without any exageration I can tell that I have checked 21 KFF Big Meks across five stores (all of their stock) which were so bad out of shape that they weren't even in the "I can fix that with some green stuff" category anymore. I gave up and started hunting metal meks on ebay afterwards.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the dread, I feel like the one saw is definitely worth it, since you usually want to threaten vehicles with your KMB and can finish them off with a charge. It also makes them more threatening against 3W units like destroyers, harlequin bikes or gravis armor units, though your really don't want to charge one into agressors - it's to easy too forget that they have power fists on top of their million of bolter shots.

IMO 2 KMB is the sweet spot for a deff skulls dread, since you can still benefit from your re-roll if one of them hits. More cause you to take too many mortal wounds, and make the dread too weak on the charge. Otherwise the 3+1 setup has been working best for me, as all the other guns suck.
Best unit size seems to be 2, you'll rarely find enough space

Four KMB turns the dread into a pure shooting unit, which compares badly to KMK, tank bustas, lootas or buggies. KMB simply aren't that great without the tripple re-rolls.

As for nob bikers - they suffer from the same problem as nobz, which is nob weapons not having enough impact. A unit with killsaws which can charge turn 1 for 1+2CP. For 250 points, they deal 10 damage to a vehicle or kill 6 primaris, neither which is bad, but also not worth writing home about.

 flandarz wrote:
I hate to say it, but I don't think a 5pt drop is gonna be much help for Biker Nobz. In the current meta, they're practically just as durable as Biker Boyz, but cost ya 10 more ppm. Probably needed to drop another 4-6 to be "on the level".

10 less would have made them on par with koptas. Sadly...

Biker boyz would have needed like an 6 point decrease at least.

Oh well, at least like it was said Deff skull dreads with triple kmB and a cc weapon is now quite good. That and gitz and some of the buggies enable lists with low model count. It’s gonna look real good too

Bikers need a dataslate upgrade more than a points change.
They SHOULD be -1 to hit by default because of exhaust clouds but GW decided to turn a base rule (which was the main reason for the unit to exist mind you) into a stratagem for some fething reason.

Even if they redid the strat to exclude them so they cant do -2 to hit, they should still have it by default. That would drastically offset the difference between them and koptas.
Koptas have better range and more wounds but are easier to hit.

addnid wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
I hate to say it, but I don't think a 5pt drop is gonna be much help for Biker Nobz. In the current meta, they're practically just as durable as Biker Boyz, but cost ya 10 more ppm. Probably needed to drop another 4-6 to be "on the level".

10 less would have made them on par with koptas. Sadly...

Biker boyz would have needed like an 6 point decrease at least.

Oh well, at least like it was said Deff skull dreads with triple kmB and a cc weapon is now quite good. That and gitz and some of the buggies enable lists with low model count. It’s gonna look real good too

I honestly think several buggies and Flash Gitz will go into the “green” tier list. The drops have made them likely competitive. Deff dread setup with 2-3 guns is probably a bump as well. Ork stuff seems to often be fine rules wise but not properly pointed.

I am really curious if we will start seeing buggy heavy mechanized lists with no boys. I think as long as marines dominate, boys are in a bad place.

tulun wrote:

addnid wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
I hate to say it, but I don't think a 5pt drop is gonna be much help for Biker Nobz. In the current meta, they're practically just as durable as Biker Boyz, but cost ya 10 more ppm. Probably needed to drop another 4-6 to be "on the level".

10 less would have made them on par with koptas. Sadly...

Biker boyz would have needed like an 6 point decrease at least.

Oh well, at least like it was said Deff skull dreads with triple kmB and a cc weapon is now quite good. That and gitz and some of the buggies enable lists with low model count. It’s gonna look real good too

I honestly think several buggies and Flash Gitz will go into the “green” tier list. The drops have made them likely competitive. Deff dread setup with 2-3 guns is probably a bump as well. Ork stuff seems to often be fine rules wise but not properly pointed.

I am really curious if we will start seeing buggy heavy mechanized lists with no boys. I think as long as marines dominate, boys are in a bad place.

I was making a list like that before the points drops because I was designing a fluffy/fun list that was supposed to mimick a Mad Max style. This also happened with my Daemons of Slaanesh... where I got them painted, no one played them... then BAM, new release and I look like a trendy hipster. lol

Jokes aside, I'm excited that my army will be able to fit more buggies/mech in!

I think all the buggies are quite good with the points drop... except the Squigbuggy still. I still think it just doesn't fit any particular role well? Unless I am missing something? The Snazzwagon is good anti-infantry but it's also good for running up and ramming things and exploding semi-on purpose to do some damage. KBB is a better version of that minus the suicidal tendency. Obviously the Scrapjet and Shokkjump were already good and just got better.

I want to pick it up because it's a cool model... I'm just not sure.

tulun wrote:


I am really curious if we will start seeing buggy heavy mechanized lists with no boys. I think as long as marines dominate, boys are in a bad place.

I don't think it will replace boyz. I think part of why heavy mech is possible is that boyz are such a strong foundation - relatively cheap, fantastic anti-infantry, hard to shift, and a great source of CP. What we've been missing, I feel, is ways to bring down enemy armor in our post-powerklaw world. A whole mess of buggies and walkers equipped with KMBs is the solution I've been looking for. But I still have at least 60 boyz on the table.

Legends has dropped and it looks like the Biker Boss was spared from the culling. Unfortunately, it looks like the Big Mek and Biker Mek were not.