Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

It's the same unit you are setting up again, so it keeps all its buffs (and debuffs!).

Noice. This army seems like a lot of fun, I’m keen to try them out.

tneva82 wrote:
Yeah he's considering that one to be in cover on turn 1. Good if there's not that much LOS blocking terrain and want to skimp on KFF at the expense of 2CP half the time.

It’s not really skimping.

It’s better against AP0 and AP1, equal against AP2, worse against AP3+.

I’d you’re mostly facing AP2 or less, your damage mitigation is going up for less investment.

Also don’t have to keep your army huddled together

My issue with that stratagem is the majority of the shots hitting me turn1 are heavy shots, i.e. the high AP stuff, so im back down to my KFF regardless.
Really all it helps is against autocannon type stuff, but the way i deploy they generally cant hit anything other than a Boy (in KFF anyway) or a T7/8 vehicle they arent that great at hurting.
My opinion on that might change now that buggies are going to be in every list i bet lol. Autocannons WILL hurt buggies reliably.

Current meta seems to favour high rate low ap due to numerous inv saves so -1 and -2 is pretty darn common. Numarines are full of those

 Vineheart01 wrote:
My issue with that stratagem is the majority of the shots hitting me turn1 are heavy shots, i.e. the high AP stuff, so im back down to my KFF regardless.
Really all it helps is against autocannon type stuff, but the way i deploy they generally cant hit anything other than a Boy (in KFF anyway) or a T7/8 vehicle they arent that great at hurting.
My opinion on that might change now that buggies are going to be in every list i bet lol. Autocannons WILL hurt buggies reliably.

Well if you play with 4-5 buggies, it’ll be hard to keep them all in KFF. And if they aren’t spread out, they are an explosion risk.
It’s also 3CP to make your KFF huge vs 2CP to just add a cover save.

I’d only do this in a vehicle heavy list, of course.

In the past i typically had 3 KFFs (Wazbom, Mork, Bikermek which of course i can only play in friendly games now) so i didnt use that KFF stratagem either. Actually i usually forget its a thing.

But yeah i agree, keeping that many buggies in there would be difficult. I havnt even tried to make a list with the new points yet so not even sure what im dropping for buggies. But i for sure want them in there now that theyre priced right.

The sad thing is they might straight up suck for ITC. They give off too many VPs.

Otherwise they’ll probably show up in more normal matches.

I usually take 1 KFF at most, but I don’t often field a mork or own a wazbom.

Give away too many VP?
And Mek Gunz didnt? Same mentality, big unit splits into many small units that technically destroying 1 triggers when something is destroyed rules.
Also im not aware of FA slots giving points unless were talking points in kill matches.
Mind you i dont play ITC, im only vaguely aware of its rules just by listening in on it. That new painting rule they recently put out makes me not wanna even attempt to play any ITC tournaments on its own.

I think wiping a unit out gives you a kill point, and they all become separate units after you deploy them.

You can also take big game hunter, which gives you VPs for killing 8+ wound models.

So maybe you can take small amounts without them being too much a liability?

That is one thing i know ITC did was killpoints was supposed to be per 100pts not per unit, because the per unit thing horrifically put horde armies at a disadvantage.
If they reverted that...thats kinda bs.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
That is one thing i know ITC did was killpoints was supposed to be per 100pts not per unit, because the per unit thing horrifically put horde armies at a disadvantage.
If they reverted that...thats kinda bs.

Could be that. Either way, that puts the Megatrakk out of ITC competitive play. I guess the squig buggy too if anyone is taking that seriously

But the KBB, Snazzwagon, and Dragsta are below that 100 point threshold. They are pretty squishy all things considered, though, so maybe they are still a BGH liability.

We're playing Orkz. Everything is squishy. That said, running Buggies alongside Infantry is gonna end poorly for ya. But in a "pure" Mechanized List? Half your opponent's weapons are gonna be whiffing against them. You'll be fine.

That logic technically makes a LOT of units not competitive, not just for orks.

Hmmm first test game vs ultra Marines today with flash gitz. 10 man flash gitz killed about 440 points of Marines pretty nice

 flandarz wrote:
We're playing Orkz. Everything is squishy. That said, running Buggies alongside Infantry is gonna end poorly for ya. But in a "pure" Mechanized List? Half your opponent's weapons are gonna be whiffing against them. You'll be fine.

The format you play will matter though.

But if you don’t play ITC, nothing to worry about.

Kill points is one of the dumbest things ever.it just makes no sense. Mayb kill points for killing game points but not for units that's... One of the biggest housemade balance changes everywhere

T1nk4bell wrote:
Hmmm first test game vs ultra Marines today with flash gitz. 10 man flash gitz killed about 440 points of Marines pretty nice

Sounds..... Odd. In a Trukk? What was your/your opponents list?

Gotta say really happy with CA 2019.

Run 10+ Flash Gitz, Dragsta, Kustom Boosta Blasta, Deffdread with 4 KMC and Deffkoptaz in most of my friednly games and got an over 100 points drop in those lists.
Might stock up smashas since i was waiting for them to get killed by CA points increase but seems like we got another year of smashing.^^

Or just max out on 30 Flash gits. All those Marines get really annoying and my gitz seem to be the best answer to them.

Running 2-3 waggons with wazbom, gorka and the other stuff might not be the most effective list but makes a lot of fun in friendly games.

What I'm saying is: it really doesn't matter what format you run cuz everything we got is "squishy" (aside from Ghaz and maybe MANz). You're gonna give up kill-points, there's really no way to get around that. So, you gotta focus on earning more VP than your opponent. Orkz have some real strong suits in the game, and if you play to them, you'll do just fine. Buggies or no Buggies.

Yeah, 10 Gitz taking out that many Marines seems like an anomaly. I'm still happy for ya, but I feel like that's the exception, rather than the norm. Your opponent would pretty much have to be ignoring them for your Gitz to average out that much over the course of the game. And you'd probably still need some lucky rolls.

Stationary gits with more Dakka and two runts is pretty nuts. Before explosions, captain hits twice, 3rd likely hits on the reroll. Others generate another 13.5 hits, getting you up to 17... then you add explosions ( captain gets the priority of explode rerolls of course).

Probably puts you close to 22-25 hits? Not even including baddruk.

If you proc that shoot twice, I could see gits downing 300+ points in 1 round pretty easily.

tulun wrote:
Stationary gits with more Dakka and two runts is pretty nuts. Before explosions, captain hits twice, 3rd likely hits on the reroll. Others generate another 13.5 hits, getting you up to 17... then you add explosions ( captain gets the priority of explode rerolls of course).

Erm, don't you have to indicate which models explode using different coloured dice or something? You surely can't just decide to add the exploding dice to the model with the best BS in the unit? Obviously normally it's no problem as most units have models with the same BS and don't explode.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

T1nk4bell wrote:
Hmmm first test game vs ultra Marines today with flash gitz. 10 man flash gitz killed about 440 points of Marines pretty nice

Sounds..... Odd. In a Trukk? What was your/your opponents list?

Na jumped them together with 30 boys and 7 Manz via Tellyport together in round two.

Hmm as I remind he had 6 aggressors, 2x10 intercessor, 2x devestator with grav and laser, chaplain, chapter master, Ltd and another hq, thunder fire cannons, 2 dreads ( the ones with double onslaught gating. Think I miss something bit dunno what ( 1750 points game)

I just made high pressure, the gitz where dead after two rounds shooting. But they killed enough

Yeah, you can only fast-roll if all part of the attack are the same. If there's any variation, you have to slow-roll at least THAT part of it.

Yeah the Kaptin' needs to be rolled on his own. You only roll bulk dice if they need the same result and have the same profile.
Kaptin' has the same profile but different accuracy.

Correct. Explosions aren't "oh my buddy hit extra well so I'll shoot more".

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

tulun wrote:
Stationary gits with more Dakka and two runts is pretty nuts. Before explosions, captain hits twice, 3rd likely hits on the reroll. Others generate another 13.5 hits, getting you up to 17... then you add explosions ( captain gets the priority of explode rerolls of course).

Erm, don't you have to indicate which models explode using different coloured dice or something? You surely can't just decide to add the exploding dice to the model with the best BS in the unit? Obviously normally it's no problem as most units have models with the same BS and don't explode.

No, you’ve misunderstood.

You get rerolls from runts, you could save it for the kaptin on initial shots or explosive ones.

Although it may just be better to save them for any misses that haven’t exploded ( with kaptin getting priority )

Anyway, here's the math in regards to Marines.

9 Gitz+1 Kaptin+2 Ammo Runts

Kaptin averages 2.66 hits (using an Ammo Runt Reroll)

Gitz average 16.25 hits (using an Ammo Runt to reroll).

Total of 18.91 hits. Against T4, that's an average of 12.6 Wounds, and after 5+ Save (taking into account AP, but not any Cover) that's 16.8 Damage. Or about 8 Marines dead. If you Moar Dakka, that number obviously goes up (not quite double, but the math is starting to move out of my ballpark on this one).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The issue with "saving them" is that you have two scenarios. 1) the Kaptin shoots first, you use an Ammo Runt (or two), and then you have an abnormal number of misses with your Gitz. 2) the Gitz shoot first (and miss a few), you "save" the runts, then the Kaptin doesn't miss any of his shots.

tulun wrote:
Stationary gits with more Dakka and two runts is pretty nuts. Before explosions, captain hits twice, 3rd likely hits on the reroll. Others generate another 13.5 hits, getting you up to 17... then you add explosions ( captain gets the priority of explode rerolls of course).

Probably puts you close to 22-25 hits? Not even including baddruk.

If you proc that shoot twice, I could see gits downing 300+ points in 1 round pretty easily.

the only tactic i can think of with flashgitz is to have afreebooter army turn 2 teleport a Morkanaut to within 24" , da jump (or teleport) a flashgit unit next to the naut, kill something with the Morkanaut to trigger Freebooterz: Competitive Streak (target something soft) to push the gits hit rolls back to +4 and use more dakka and start laying down the pain with the flashgitz.

hope the Morkanaut KFF protects the flashgitz when they shoot back

i can't think of much better maybe someone else can.....

With more dakka and without penalty the captain if he use one ammo runt he gets 3,55 hits average
The rest 18,66 one ammo runt and more dakka include.
So 22 hits average if you don't move
With moving its 2,66 on captain
And 12,44 rest
So 15 hits average.

Against primaris I'd would be
Without moving = 9,77 dead primaris or nearly 5 dead aggressor
With move = 6, 66 or 3 and a half dead aggressors


And if you're lucky and spend cp for shooting twice chance to 30,55 chance to shoot twice.
If it procs its totaly spiked dmg


It's all about good wound roll or bad save role here than the gitz can spike a lot