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if you have limited rerolls, always shoot with whatever you want the reroll for the most first.
I guarantee every time you fire the chaff and save the reroll, when you fire the main weapon...didnt need it.
Also thats assuming the ammo runts are even alive. My regular nobz' runts die pretty much the moment they can be shot at all because "nobz scary" - well, flash gitz are legitimately scary.

T1nk4bell wrote:
With more dakka and without penalty the captain if he use one ammo runt he gets 3,55 hits average

But then that's no More Dakka on your SSAG, Tank Bustas or Lootas.

What are their numbers like without MD, when moving? Realistically unless you are completely controlling the game your opponent isn't going to just waltz his most optimal targets into the range of the Gits. Particularly Intercessors who out range them comfortably.

The CP reroll for shooting again with them is a trap I feel, firing twice less than a third of the time for 1 CP is not a good investment.

Yeah, with explosions on 6's and 5's, that goes up a nice chunk. Of course, getting a stationary Gits shot is also not necessarily easy.

Without more dakka =
Stationary :
Captain with one ammo runt reroll and normal dakka dakka dakka = 3,11 hits
And rest with one reroll from the other ammo runt
16,33
Together =19,44 without moving and without any bonus

With moving captain 2,33 and 10,88 rest
So 13 overall.



Well yes but I never use more dakka on ssag mek and I don't use lootaz or bustas .
With the ssag I have the philosophy it spikes or not I shoot it twice but almost never more dakka it

Jep the reroll on shot again is mostly wasted for sure!
But when you have its awesome



And if you are under Freeboter proc and Stationary the gitz are crazy as hell ( never had that

Tbh, I don't really know if tankbustas need more dakka, unless they are getting hit with negative modifiers -- 5+ rerolled is already pretty insane with shoot twice.

I generally use more dakka to get around hit modifiers, but it is nice on Flash Gitz because it might push them into wiping out certain units (and they get quite a few rerolls).

Lootas do benefit for sure. But I think Lootas are generally falling out of favour anyway, as they aren't as good in the marine matchup anymore (variable shots, often hitting 2+ cover saves, even if they have autocannons).

I think we might start to see Gits replace Lootas if we start finding good ways of keeping them around at least two turns. Tankbustas are the real deal vs vehicles, gits against heavy infantry, Lootas are sort of in this middle ground we try to avoid.

More Dakka is generally only really worth it if you are facing negatives to hit (as it ignores those) or you have a stupid rate of fire.
Full Flash Gitz might have the rate of fire to justify it, but most of the time they'd be hitting 5man Primaris squads wouldnt they? i dont think they'd need it to remove that few models since only 5 need to get through.

Ye lootas is without mkb up and just 1 ap just a bad thing atm

A 15 man squat lootas kill average 11 primaris ( with double shoot and more dakka (4 cps for that no ty.)
And if they have cover or are salamander you're.......
And they need grot shild

One of the things I love about Flash Gits is they are very cp efficient.

They potentially need no CP to function (Put em in a trukk to protect them instead of grot shields), and can really only use more dakka. They need 1 CP for Loot it for trukk mode, and maybe if you want to gamble on that shoot twice roll.

Comparatively you might be burning 5 CP a round to really get the most out of your Lootas... without including grot sheilds (more dakka, shoot twice, and command roll for avoiding 1 shot per loota)

I still prefer to footslog them. Besides IH nowadays feels like everyone rush at you. Last three months I maybe had a game where I went over midfield. I'm still trying to get a working list with 20 MANz and the FG. Dunno if it worth to loose 2 MANz for the banner honestly

 Emicrania wrote:
I still prefer to footslog them. Besides IH nowadays feels like everyone rush at you. Last three months I maybe had a game where I went over midfield. I'm still trying to get a working list with 20 MANz and the FG. Dunno if it worth to loose 2 MANz for the banner honestly

How are you keeping them alive? Are you taking freebooter grots?

How many points did flash gitz go down? I’m thinking of adding 10 to my list with a Trukk. But I need to somehow take 200-odd points out to do so :(

Unfortunately I may have to remove the 2 Deff Dreads even though I just got them, cos they seem like a weak link. This makes me much sadness.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
How many points did flash gitz go down? I’m thinking of adding 10 to my list with a Trukk. But I need to somehow take 200-odd points out to do so :(

Unfortunately I may have to remove the 2 Deff Dreads even though I just got them, cos they seem like a weak link. This makes me much sadness.

It’ll cost you 312 for the kit with 2 runts. Get them. Cheap wounds and they’ll pay for themselves in one round of shooting.

Wow they got like a whole Trukk cheaper then, that’s amazing.

So here’s the list I was thinking. I still want to include the Deff Dreads because I just bought them haha.



My main concern is not enough bodies but I do have roughly 80 models including vehicles. Thoughts?

Jep with trukk they are no nearly same price like before without trukk
If you want they have a trukk for free now

tulun wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
I still prefer to footslog them. Besides IH nowadays feels like everyone rush at you. Last three months I maybe had a game where I went over midfield. I'm still trying to get a working list with 20 MANz and the FG. Dunno if it worth to loose 2 MANz for the banner honestly

How are you keeping them alive? Are you taking freebooter grots?

Yup. Just now 60 of them but I'm confident less is enough. I play with loads of terrain ITC and once I m done feeding my adversary Kill more a couple of turn on grots, I m already in position and I blew up back lines.
I don't think the trukk is a good choice.
You loose Badrukk rerolls and can't use any strats on them beside MD.



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Plus for me would be the only veichle. Red iz not Fasta, Red iz Ded.

I like how in the new community article even GW thinks the mek workshop is terrible.

Any news on points reductions? I haven't really been keeping up with the spoilers.

There is a full list in this thread.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I like how in the new community article even GW thinks the mek workshop is terrible.

Any news on points reductions? I haven't really been keeping up with the spoilers.

Have to say that made me chuckle up though list wasn't what sucks list.

Played yesterday against marine.

First and second turn he destroyed trukk, battlewagon, deffkoptas, grots and 30 boyz, I though I was about to lose, but I rushed all his army with 30 boyz+mekff+painboy+warboss+weirdboy and destroyed his whole army, like old times

I lost anyways cuz we were playing a new CA mission and he grabbed more points, I'm satisfied anyways since my army was not competitive (0 smasha guns, 0 lootas, 0 flash gitz) and still crushed him

Just looking at maybe kitbashing some flashgitz together to add to my deathskullz and I might be able to squeeze them in with some smasha gunz in there own freebootaz detachment, because who knows, might trigger that +1 to hit with the smashas.

Question is could I dump the flashgitz from my freebootaz detachment into a trukk from my deathskullz and if so could I do it during deployment? It'll grant the truck a 6+ invul (better than nothing) and a reroll if to hit/wound which might make the rokkit launcha marginally more attractive.

It feels like something you shouldn't be able to do, but I can't see a reason why not.

All ork transports are specifically allowed to let FlashGitz and Badrukk (because he has the FlashGitz tag) embark them even if they are not freeboota.

The drawback is the unit in the transport will never benefit from the Freeboota +1 if something CAN trigger it. The transport itself has to be freeboota for that to work (open-topped rule confers modifiers to the embarked unit, this is a modifier). But generally if you are wanting Freebootas outside flashgitz you should have a mono-kulture of them imo to maximize that +1 potential.

I agree with Vine. Freebooterz is really an "all or nothing" Kultur. Fortunately, you can field Gitz and Badrukk in any Kultur (they just don't benefit from it), so unless you need Freebooter Grots for Shields, you're best off just throwing them into whatever Kultur you feel like.

Yeah, it's a real shame that it's hard to splash freebootas.

There are tons of units we wanna take that are optimally deathskullz, evil sunz, or Bad moonz. And only taking a small detachment is still worth it.

It's probably the main thing holding Gits back. If grot shields could apply to <clan> units OR Flash Gits, I'm pretty sure they would be everywhere.

Honestly, the best splash I can think of for a Freebootas Spearhead detachment would be like:

12 Mek Gunz (another 6 if you're feeling cheeky). As low as 2 of them if you just want the minimum viable detachment.
1 full unit of Flash Gits
Grots to taste (30 or so?)
Baddruk

Mek Gunz are actually optimally freebootas because they can help trigger the +1, and don't really care about kultures otherwise. Hopefully the Mek Gun will proc it for your Gits.

Nice thing about this too is that you might already be taking Mek Guns anyway, Flash Gits, *And* baddruk. It just means you have another HQ slot elsewhere, and maybe some extra grots. The overall investment in a lot of the bog standard armies is actually quite low.

If I was feeling extra cheeky too, I'd surround my Flash Gits with some Deffkoptas. They can't explode, and if they target them, you can loot them and buff your Gits. If they ignore them, they'll be able to shoot freely for a few rounds.

Of course, at this point, you might as well buy another HQ and get it as a batallion... but I don't think 2000 points can support a 4 bat army realistically. You'd have to drop 1 of the other kulturs.


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Quickly tossed together with gits detachment. Only sub optimal unit are the MANz

Issue with using Mek Gunz to Proc is that they're almost always gonna be tucked back in your deployment zone, while the Gitz need to be mid-field. That, and the "easy" stuff to Proc on (chaff units) are really suboptimal for Smashas to attack.

And that's the big thing with splashing Freebooterz: any unit killed by another Kultur doesn't Proc the +1. And that +1 is pretty much the only reason to use FBs in the first place (unless you REALLY need some Grots to protect your Gitz). 99% of the time, you'd be better off fielding a different Kultur that can benefit other units in the Army.

For example, in the list you did up: if your third Battalion was Evil Sunz, you could move your MANz over there and have far more successful charges (and better movement on this terribly slow unit). That's kinda the deal with Freebooterz; unless you go "all in", you're almost always gonna have a better Kultur choice with only minimal list shifting.

I've been looking at the following list in the vein of 'all mech, no Boyz, no Mek Gunz and no Weirdboyz'.

Its probably not very good, but I'm interested for feedback as its definitely....different...?



Most of the list is vehicles and Big Meks, both KFF Meks and possibly the SAG Mek too are to heal vehicle units.

SSAG because mandatory. Grots for limited board control, CP and to shield SSAG. Deff Dreads tellyport of slog, depending on opponent.

I appreciate Evil Sunz probably isn't the best choice for most of the list but I like to play my own sub faction where possible. Tempted to add another KFF and/or remove SAG (standard).

Bikes and Buggies are T1 threat and ideally screen clear. Mork trundles up as quick as he can. SSAG, Mork, KKBike boss, SJD and MTSJ are AA. Deffdreads are Primaris killers with AA potential.

Thoughts? Is this stupid as I fear?

 flandarz wrote:
Issue with using Mek Gunz to Proc is that they're almost always gonna be tucked back in your deployment zone, while the Gitz need to be mid-field. That, and the "easy" stuff to Proc on (chaff units) are really suboptimal for Smashas to attack.

And that's the big thing with splashing Freebooterz: any unit killed by another Kultur doesn't Proc the +1. And that +1 is pretty much the only reason to use FBs in the first place (unless you REALLY need some Grots to protect your Gitz). 99% of the time, you'd be better off fielding a different Kultur that can benefit other units in the Army.

For example, in the list you did up: if your third Battalion was Evil Sunz, you could move your MANz over there and have far more successful charges (and better movement on this terribly slow unit). That's kinda the deal with Freebooterz; unless you go "all in", you're almost always gonna have a better Kultur choice with only minimal list shifting.

Yeah, I agree. I'd rather not take Freebootas at all.

The bigger question is, can you take Gits without grot shields? If not, it's a necessary evil. Staying within 24" might be possible with Gits / Mek Guns, but yeah, the Gits could stretch too far.

I'll probably experiment with them in a Trukk first, honestly. Although having a phalanx of grots / FG / maybe a boyz unit on a flank has some appeal. You could pair them with Mad Dok to make them really annoying and about as tanky as you could possibly make these units.

@English: The main issue I see is that you're actually pretty light on vehicles, but that's a symptom of the 3 Battalions. Remember that vehicles aren't as CP hungry as Infantry, so you can probably get away with just two. You also have a LOT of Anti-Armor, but your chaff clearing is very light. If you drop a Battalion, use the spare points to get a couple more KBBs and/or another Biker unit. I'd drop the Snazzwagon and field another KBB, as well.

@Tulun: Gitz being cheaper means a Trukk works just fine as protection. Even if they get wiped, you're not losing as much investment. A Trukk costs about as much as 21 Gretchin, and we all know how easy those are to get rid of. But, in the end, I think which one you go for will be determined by your list type. Mechanized will obviously prefer a Trukk, while Infantry might go with Grots instead.

I appreciate a man sticking to his clan but are you sure about not running as Deff skulls? I have used my buggies and Dredds sparingly but when I did DS always performed better for me then ES. I'm not experienced enough to critique it further but I do love your list, it's close to what I'd run if I had the models. Please let us know how it fares.

 flandarz wrote:
@English: The main issue I see is that you're actually pretty light on vehicles, but that's a symptom of the 3 Battalions. Remember that vehicles aren't as CP hungry as Infantry, so you can probably get away with just two. You also have a LOT of Anti-Armor, but your chaff clearing is very light. If you drop a Battalion, use the spare points to get a couple more KBBs and/or another Biker unit. I'd drop the Snazzwagon and field another KBB, as well.

@Tulun: Gitz being cheaper means a Trukk works just fine as protection. Even if they get wiped, you're not losing as much investment. A Trukk costs about as much as 21 Gretchin, and we all know how easy those are to get rid of. But, in the end, I think which one you go for will be determined by your list type. Mechanized will obviously prefer a Trukk, while Infantry might go with Grots instead.

Trukk build is much cheaper in reality. 21 Grots likely isn’t enough. And you’re also likely taking 1 extra HQ in this situation if you just take a detachment; or sacrificing one of the better cultures.

In the infantry style, maybe bad moons is the weakest link here. They are best on tankbustas and Lootas. You could probably take enough Mek guns and SAGs to cover yourself on anti tank, and if you’re desperate, just use them in deathskulls as a weaker backup.
DS is still good for a lot of shooty options we might wanna take (Dakkajets, all the buggies...).

It might be fun to try like a block like this:

Grots in front, supported by a KFF, mad dok, FG, and mega nobs. Boys if desired. Make a strong thrust in the middle. Even your Grots have a 45% save rate under KFF and FNP, it’ll be more annoying than it seems to take that down.

 flandarz wrote:
@English: The main issue I see is that you're actually pretty light on vehicles, but that's a symptom of the 3 Battalions. Remember that vehicles aren't as CP hungry as Infantry, so you can probably get away with just two. You also have a LOT of Anti-Armor, but your chaff clearing is very light. If you drop a Battalion, use the spare points to get a couple more KBBs and/or another Biker unit. I'd drop the Snazzwagon and field another KBB, as well.

Yea it's funny - I was thinking the same thing with regards to dropping a batt. But then I do love me some CP and I figured the extra SAG/KFF Mek actually provide some utility in the list with their repair shenanigans.

Another Bike unit is pointless, though I'd consider filling the one out to a full 12 man squad. Why drop the Snazz for another KBB? I like the idea of -1 to hit, 4+ explosion and the anti-chaff is roughly the same but has greater range?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Castozor wrote:
I appreciate a man sticking to his clan but are you sure about not running as Deff skulls? I have used my buggies and Dredds sparingly but when I did DS always performed better for me then ES. I'm not experienced enough to critique it further but I do love your list, it's close to what I'd run if I had the models. Please let us know how it fares.

Lol a man loves his Evil Sunz, I love the mobility too much. I'll keep you posted how it goes for sure!