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2019/12/15 20:42:49
Subject: Re:No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
cody.d. wrote: Also, Eldar are sooo bull with their new book. Really hope we get some good traits/relics in Saga of the beast, so we can have some proper force multiplier characters.
What exactly changed for Eldar?
They got custom traits like successors. And the upgrades for their sergeants. Imagine 9 smasha gunz able to use the deffskulls trait. And a unit if shining spears with a rerollable 2++ on their unit leader to absorb firepower. It was pretty in the slightest.
2019/12/15 20:48:17
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Emicrania wrote: Just tried finally to play vs IH successor chapter.
I went with FG, full TB squad with bombs, 3 SAG, 30 shoota boyz and 110 grots.
I went first
We shaked hands at the end of his T2
First time he tried the list.
We did to see if it was possible for me to do anything. No is not. If you go to tournaments and meet IH, just smile and don't stress to do anything. You will get tabled. Period.
Hold up, 110 grots?
That might be part of the reason why you lost tbh. Once you reach the 50 grots number there's diminishing returns for both board control and usage as grot shields. Obviously useful for filling out detachments, but I feel like you could put in some of that cost into Smasha Gunz or something else to add further shooting. Don't get me wrong, IH are ridiculously strong even with their recent FAQ nerfs, but grots really don't do much and you missed out on a lot of potential extra firepower.
2019/12/15 21:03:50
Subject: Re:No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
cody.d. wrote: Also, Eldar are sooo bull with their new book. Really hope we get some good traits/relics in Saga of the beast, so we can have some proper force multiplier characters.
What exactly changed for Eldar?
They got custom traits like successors. And the upgrades for their sergeants. Imagine 9 smasha gunz able to use the deffskulls trait. And a unit if shining spears with a rerollable 2++ on their unit leader to absorb firepower. It was pretty in the slightest.
Even if orks gets exact copy of eldars smasha gun wouldn't get trait anyway. Note how chaos didn't get their trait on vehicles either...Also core traits won't be changing(again see how chaos got left with their weak traits).
That might be part of the reason why you lost tbh. Once you reach the 50 grots number there's diminishing returns for both board control and usage as grot shields. Obviously useful for filling out detachments, but I feel like you could put in some of that cost into Smasha Gunz or something else to add further shooting. Don't get me wrong, IH are ridiculously strong even with their recent FAQ nerfs, but grots really don't do much and you missed out on a lot of potential extra firepower.
50 grots isn't that much for grot screen. I have had 15 lootas blown to bits from behind 60 grots with firepower to spare. And that before numarine codex.
Also 3 battallions is pretty common for orks and you don't generally want 120 boyz so 60 grots is pretty normal. 6x10 grots, 3x30 boyz=3 battallions.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/15 21:05:45
2019/12/15 21:23:44
Subject: Re:No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
cody.d. wrote: Also, Eldar are sooo bull with their new book. Really hope we get some good traits/relics in Saga of the beast, so we can have some proper force multiplier characters.
What exactly changed for Eldar?
They got custom traits like successors. And the upgrades for their sergeants. Imagine 9 smasha gunz able to use the deffskulls trait. And a unit if shining spears with a rerollable 2++ on their unit leader to absorb firepower. It was pretty in the slightest.
Even if orks gets exact copy of eldars smasha gun wouldn't get trait anyway. Note how chaos didn't get their trait on vehicles either...Also core traits won't be changing(again see how chaos got left with their weak traits).
That might be part of the reason why you lost tbh. Once you reach the 50 grots number there's diminishing returns for both board control and usage as grot shields. Obviously useful for filling out detachments, but I feel like you could put in some of that cost into Smasha Gunz or something else to add further shooting. Don't get me wrong, IH are ridiculously strong even with their recent FAQ nerfs, but grots really don't do much and you missed out on a lot of potential extra firepower.
50 grots isn't that much for grot screen. I have had 15 lootas blown to bits from behind 60 grots with firepower to spare. And that before numarine codex.
Also 3 battallions is pretty common for orks and you don't generally want 120 boyz so 60 grots is pretty normal. 6x10 grots, 3x30 boyz=3 battallions.
Right, but he had 110 grots, at least 50 over the basic 60 grot base you mentioned. That's 150 points worth of extra stuff that just sits around to die. Not only is that tedious to manage for tournament play, but that's a fair bit of killing potential you're wasting. That was my point.
2019/12/15 21:27:40
Subject: Re:No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Now I am not a veteran player, but I think it rather hard to handle a multiple unit grot shield then it comes to placement and moment.
Since one model have to be close to the unit it is supposed to protect I see no other option than to weave the different (grot) unites if they also should be closer all threats. This in turn makes it almost impossible to move. Also, very hard to distinguish what unit each model belongs to. So far I have used 3 units and it makes a mess.
Any suggestion on this?
2019/12/15 22:08:30
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Thinking this might be a counter marine army. Impossible to play maybe in 90 minutes.
Wondering if I really need to push the Grot count above 300 and take ghazzy.
Scores via Grots, kills via smite, 3 SAGs, baddruk, and 18 Mek guns.
Thinking this might be a counter marine army. Impossible to play maybe in 90 minutes.
Wondering if I really need to push the Grot count above 300 and take ghazzy.
Scores via Grots, kills via smite, 3 SAGs, baddruk, and 18 Mek guns.
As much as I love the idea of a grot horde, that would indeed be a nightmare to unpack for a game. The other main problem is even with Smite, you're not likely to do enough damage since you don't get the WAAAGH! energy buff from grot units anymore, making each progressive casting of smite harder with little way for you to boost your casting. I would say the success of the list has to do more with your game running out of time by T3-4 before your opponent can kill through enough grots on objectives than the list itself doing really well in a tournament setting.
2019/12/15 22:27:18
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
The problem is not in having so many grots, the problem is in 9 eliminators that kill a 1/2 char out of LOS plus 16d3 shots from 2 whirlwind and Thunderfire cannons with full rerolls and 5 space marines with grav strat that can kill or maim anything and drop down T1.
without counting smashcaptain, 20 intercessors, 15 scouts and 5 other characters.
IH are broke beyond anything I ever seen. They are worst than deathstar in 7th.
It is disgusting how they managed to break the game completly.
It requires 0 management skills. stay ouf of los and throw dices with a 90% accuracy denying any kind of counter DS with scout or infintrators or Auspex scan.
2019/12/15 22:54:06
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
"60 Grots and 15 Lootas with firepower to spare" still seems like an outlier to me. Like, if that's average, you might as well pack up before you play, cuz they'll easily wipe anything else you fielded.
Automatically Appended Next Post: For managing multiple Gretchin units protecting a single unit, your best bet is to "layer and stagger". You should be able to easily get 4 or 5 units of Gretchin into that 6" bubble. For distinguishing, you may want to consider putting a dot of paint onto the base of each Gretchin, with each unit having their own color.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/15 22:57:35
2019/12/15 23:24:42
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Grimskul wrote: As much as I love the idea of a grot horde, that would indeed be a nightmare to unpack for a game. The other main problem is even with Smite, you're not likely to do enough damage since you don't get the WAAAGH! energy buff from grot units anymore, making each progressive casting of smite harder with little way for you to boost your casting. I would say the success of the list has to do more with your game running out of time by T3-4 before your opponent can kill through enough grots on objectives than the list itself doing really well in a tournament setting.
Definitely theoretical. I think I've heard of someone bringint a 300+ grot horde list to a tournament, but it is logistically a nightmare and hard on you.
hmm, good point re: Waaagh energy. So we have two options here, both can be used:
1) Take the relic that gives the optional +1 to psychic tests. As we can literally pull out 23 CP before buying stuff, I think it's an easy thing to get here. This army is flush with CP.
2) Find a way to get 7 more characters around the Psykers. Now, they each count as an Ork model themselves, so if they are all within 10" of each other, that's 3 there... You can probably keep a KFF and Baddruk close, maybe 2 runt herders, potentially a painboy to help with sniper fire and perils wounds. The last key point might be 3 elite Meks for at least a +1.
Probably not worth it.
At the very least, you could be testing smite at 5, 6, 6 (use the relic Ork last), or whatever combo you feel happiest with. And you'd probably have extra points for the command re-roll in the psychic phase.
I honestly think an army like this could work if you could somehow move fast enough. The SSAG alone with 5-6 rounds of shooting twice with more Dakka, potentially re-rolling die for shots or going for 11+ strength, I think could devastate a marine army.
But moving it? Yeah, I can't see that going well in a 90 minute window.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/15 23:25:22
2019/12/15 23:32:56
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
I did 3 tournaments with 100+ grots and I can tell you that, once you get movement trays (I have both blocks of 5 grouped and 5 in lines) you can easily play thru it. You will loose 50/60 grots the first couple of turns, the rest stays in the back so you can achieve recon and objective grabbing later on.
The problem is when you get 16d3 shots with full rerolls in your face with 60" range and out of LoS. You CANNOT counter that. All those that did something during the last two months at tournaments they got Lucky they didn't meet IH.
2019/12/15 23:39:11
Subject: Re:No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
In case there would be any counter against IH, I doubt it would be spaming 200 grots and wasting lot of points in a defensive strategy, I don't think orks can beat marines in a defensive strategy.
I've played 2 times against marines with a bad list and the situations I was ahead were the ones the SM did a mistake like bad positioning and I was able to block in combat my army to avoid the fire, and even doing that, my orks were facing troops with 2 wounds and insane saves, so I wasn't really ahead.
Orks 5000p
2019/12/15 23:58:41
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Emicrania wrote: I did 3 tournaments with 100+ grots and I can tell you that, once you get movement trays (I have both blocks of 5 grouped and 5 in lines) you can easily play thru it. You will loose 50/60 grots the first couple of turns, the rest stays in the back so you can achieve recon and objective grabbing later on.
The problem is when you get 16d3 shots with full rerolls in your face with 60" range and out of LoS. You CANNOT counter that. All those that did something during the last two months at tournaments they got Lucky they didn't meet IH.
Gotcha. Do you think it would be possible to outscore your opponents here? Or is just 6 turns of whirlwind fire is giving up too many VPs to kill more? You could do your best to give the grots a 5++, 6+++, but yeah, thunderfire cannons are straight up bs.
300 grots might even be hard for thunderfire cannons if the grots are getting saves.
You might be able to da jump and tag stuff in a pinch, or even take some Deff Koptas to that effect on turn 3 if there's a hole to jump in and charge.
But yeah. Accurate, devastating indirect fire is probably the strongest gak in 8th edition right now, and marines got it in bundles.
Having 312 fearless grots with 6+++ (because they don't get Invu or KFF, being so many) relay on forcing your opponent to shoot inexpensive models with expensive guns.
This list is a copy of the one played this summer during the ETC World championship. It works in ETC because how ETC scoring works and how etc limits spamming units outside hq and troops (if I remember correctly)
However it is one of the 2 effective strategies. Forcing your opponent to waste away doing Close to 0 damage or having insanely resilient units with cheap Invu or deny dmg.
Think that those fething Marines are so broken that PB are not competitive anymore, because of all the rerolls.
2019/12/16 10:12:11
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
AFAIKETC is just running a mix of Eternal War and Maelstrom missions - the only real limit on army creation is that they banned both index and FW.
That said, I don't think a marine army has any trouble grinding through those 312 gretchin within 3 turns - I picked a random tournament winner from two weeks ago (IH with RG centurions) and their army averaged to 150 gretchin dead per turn, assuming everyone is in range and not inside an aura or using stratagems. It's more likely that he just keeps blocking their movement with gretchin while the SAGs keep taking out fast units. When you are scoring for 3 or 4 turns and keep marines pinned in their corner, they have little way of catching up in maelstrom or any of the CA2018 eternal war missions.This is basically the go-to strategy in our group when facing marines - keep them busy and take out anything that allows them to catch up on VP. I wonder how he keeps his characters from getting blow to pieces by eliminators though.
However, since ITC heavily rewards killing things, I'm not sure this is a solution for you.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/16 10:13:37
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2019/12/16 10:57:33
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Jidmah wrote: AFAIKETC is just running a mix of Eternal War and Maelstrom missions - the only real limit on army creation is that they banned both index and FW.
That said, I don't think a marine army has any trouble grinding through those 312 gretchin within 3 turns - I picked a random tournament winner from two weeks ago (IH with RG centurions) and their army averaged to 150 gretchin dead per turn, assuming everyone is in range and not inside an aura or using stratagems.
It's more likely that he just keeps blocking their movement with gretchin while the SAGs keep taking out fast units. When you are scoring for 3 or 4 turns and keep marines pinned in their corner, they have little way of catching up in maelstrom or any of the CA2018 eternal war missions.This is basically the go-to strategy in our group when facing marines - keep them busy and take out anything that allows them to catch up on VP.
I wonder how he keeps his characters from getting blow to pieces by eliminators though.
However, since ITC heavily rewards killing things, I'm not sure this is a solution for you.
Dont ETC have a limitation about spamming units?
However, I´m moving away from playing so many grots Is a punishing list to play on your body and mind on a 2 days tournaments.
2019/12/16 11:02:51
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
How are you getting all 312 Gretchin into your 12" fearless bubble? Like, I know the whole unit doesn't hafta be in 12", but even running units of 30 Gretchin, you're gonna have trouble keeping them close enough to the Warlord to be fearless, but far enough away to actually score stuff. More importantly, how are you keeping them in the 3" Painboy aura? Even if you field 3 of them, that's not a lot of wiggle room.
2019/12/16 11:13:58
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
That IH lists sounds harsh, I suspect your only real chance is to bring boys in with endless green tide and get behind them. Even then, you'll probably get shot to death before you get to do anything.
I'm playing a 2k game tonight, got 2 potential lists, I'll bring both and decide at the last minute!
6 burna boys (cheap trial, I doubt they will succeed, but AP-2 might help a little)
Trukk, Wrecking Ball Trukk Trukk Trukk
1999pts
First list plan is simple, kill everything and launch the Nobs into combat. Unsure on klan, thinking snakebites for survival or bad moons for volume of fire. bloodaxe may be worth it to avoid combat-locking the kill tanks, and can be used with the longer ranges of killtank weapons to get cover.
Second list's plan is to capitalise on the evil suns and defkilla to move and advance further, fire assault weapons (AKA everything) without penalty and still charge if the deffkilla is near. Shoota trukks do drive-bys, slugga trukks do charges. Big mobs use da jump and mob up with the 10-man squad to go kill stuff. The 30-man squad tries to pull off endless green tide for maximum effect. SAG's give fire support from the backfield, and with everything in the enemies face, they should be fairly safe. I could keep the 30 shootas back to protect them if needed, or give them the burna's trukk (losing stratagems, though).
I think they both seem fairly strong unless the enemy brings too many fliers (first list will cope, second less so. Though volume of shootas will do something, and 7 big shootas on trukks will do a little more!)
I'm mainly focussed on trying some new bits, and much as I loved trukk rush in 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th, it doesn't seem as promising this edition - but I need to try it for myself anyway! Kill tanks is just to try and get first turn and smash some 'oomies.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/16 11:14:51
12,300 points of Orks
9th W/D/L with Orks, 4/0/2
I am Thoruk, the Barbarian, Slayer of Ducks, and This is my blog!
Honestly I ll take some months off competitive tournaments until they fix those fething IH, is disgusting.
I m gonna scale down and play more narrative and paint my BA.
2019/12/16 13:40:19
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Emicrania wrote: Dont ETC have a limitation about spamming units?
Not outside of the rule of 3 and the 3 detachment limit, which are both the same for ITC.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2019/12/16 14:42:32
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
flandarz wrote: How are you getting all 312 Gretchin into your 12" fearless bubble? Like, I know the whole unit doesn't hafta be in 12", but even running units of 30 Gretchin, you're gonna have trouble keeping them close enough to the Warlord to be fearless, but far enough away to actually score stuff. More importantly, how are you keeping them in the 3" Painboy aura? Even if you field 3 of them, that's not a lot of wiggle room.
I don't think that particular list has a fearless bubble -- He's using Evil Suns warlord trait so they can fall back and charge. And they hit on a 3+ with 2 attacks if all the auras are in range and the grots are 20+ in numbers. I'm not sure how well that would work, but that's hilarious.
Ghazzy's breakin' heads is 6" only.
You could achieve that bubble if you took snakebite grots, though with a snakebites warlord. I wonder if that would actually be even better? I suppose it really depends if this lean in to the grot charge works or not.
I think you could probably get most of your grots in range of a KFF aura turn 1, depending on deployment, if you used the KFF strat. Probably totally worth it, as you might have up to 2 rounds of your shooting before the grots lost access to the aura, which might thin out the damage.
And although it's 3 CP, this army really just uses its CP for re-rolls, SAGs, and auto pass morale I reckon.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/12/16 14:52:08
2019/12/16 14:49:18
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Played a game with my speed freeks this weekend to try and see how the new buggies work out. Despite being against Necrons, where you'd think the squigbuggy's S5 AP-good profile would shine, the thing actually managed to go a full five turns without causing one. single. wound.
It did squat in the back and score me 5/17 victory points so I can't complain too much, but my dice were basically determined to punish me for daring to hope, lol.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2019/12/16 15:18:54
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
A mixed clan detachment is INSANELY clever if all the clan is doing is being a CP battery. You lose your clan trait for that particular detachment, but who cares? It also allows you to take grots that are useful for grot shields for other detachments *and* inject the minor useful things from the weak clans.
In this particular case, that SAG has taken Morgan's Finken Cap so now we are getting command points back on a 6+.
2019/12/16 15:27:20
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Also gamed yesterday. First time using the washing machine...ergg...the morkanaut. 310 pts is maybe too much for what it does. It should be around 260-280. I am however not completely disappointed as it draw a lot of fire power leaving the rest of my mechanized list undamaged.
Guess it may be a bit imposing, once it is painted I will upload my conversion.
2019/12/16 15:47:32
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
the_scotsman wrote: Played a game with my speed freeks this weekend to try and see how the new buggies work out. Despite being against Necrons, where you'd think the squigbuggy's S5 AP-good profile would shine, the thing actually managed to go a full five turns without causing one. single. wound.
It did squat in the back and score me 5/17 victory points so I can't complain too much, but my dice were basically determined to punish me for daring to hope, lol.
The armament looks close enough to a scrapjet, so just use it as such. I'm planning to get one just for that reason, simply because I'd rather have a new buggy than another one I already have
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2019/12/16 15:49:56
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
A mixed clan detachment is INSANELY clever if all the clan is doing is being a CP battery. You lose your clan trait for that particular detachment, but who cares? It also allows you to take grots that are useful for grot shields for other detachments *and* inject the minor useful things from the weak clans.
In this particular case, that SAG has taken Morgan's Finken Cap so now we are getting command points back on a 6+.
Why not just make all of them bad moons?
The blood axe trait usually provides no more than 2 CP (only one per battle round!) as you tend to be out of them by turn 3 and less if you're unlucky. Since you are also sacrificing a relic slot worth 1-2 CP, you are better off just not taking it.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2019/12/16 16:01:00
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
The blood axe trait usually provides no more than 2 CP (only one per battle round!) as you tend to be out of them by turn 3 and less if you're unlucky. Since you are also sacrificing a relic slot worth 1-2 CP, you are better off just not taking it.
I am a big fan of the typical relic layout (SSAG + relic klaw) -- but I could see lists where I might swap the klaw out for something like the cap. The new maelstrom missions really, really encourage you to use their strats to fish for certain tactical objectives, or bring them back from the discard pile so you can get them again. It's actually probably *necessary*, because certain armies have access to insanely efficient VP cards they can now potentially get multiple times. I think I saw somewhere, for instance, Thousand Sons can get 7 VP off of 1 card?
Basically, that 1-2 extra CP might be another 3-6 VPs with the right play and a little luck.
It's more so just an eye opening idea -- certain useful things that seem to be clan locked you can potentially access cheaply if you are willing to mix clans in a detachment, instead of taking something like a supreme detachment.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/16 16:01:39
2019/12/16 16:06:32
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
If that Blood Axe trait was exempt from the more than 1 cp per round rule (which it SHOULD BE since its less likely to get multiples than the Eldar ones that are allowed) i'd do that in a heartbeat.
But since we often dump 6-8 Cp in a turn....yeah you arent gonna get more than 2 cp max because by turn3 you are either out or are saving 1 for a reroll somewhere.
Mixed detachment still makes sense if you had double-weirdboys though. The only kultures that they benefit from wont really help them all that much anyway, might as well allow those grots to protect the flashgitz or whoever you wanted them for. SAG loses way too much not having Big Killa Boss and/or deathskullz/badmoonz traits.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
Orks 5000p 
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys