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 Jidmah wrote:


That's the reason I'm trying burna bommers right now. I have no trouble clearing GEQ with my mech army, but they struggle with hordes. In addition burna bommer is really good at clearing out scouts though, and bomb+shooting can also take away ~3 models from a unit of 5 primaris marines.
I never had an issue with finding a target T1, and it's 11 points cheaper than a dakkajet. Plus I like how it forces the enemy to move, something they don't really want to do against orks.

The only problem I see is that the Burna Bomber isn't that threatening to Primaris marines and marines in general. 2 Supa shootas and a big shoota have 9 shots, 3 will hit, about 2 wound (explosions only add a bit more)... nothing insane. The Skorcha missile is good against eliminators, but you could achieve similar with a wazbom in turns of shooting against eliminators and primaris in general (Wazbom smasha also hits on a 4+ first tier, 5+ second and 3rd tier, and protects itself better if you have the points). Wazbom if you decide to forego the KFF and other upgrades is as cheap as 145 points.

I could see the marine player just dinging both so it hits on a 6+ (shouldn't be hard for them to do), then just waiting until the next turn for them to move far away from their more squishy backline units. And in other matchups, it's probably deadweight.

What are you playing Jid?
Are you playing vs IH?

I got so discouraged last match that I started to paint my BA again...

No IH in my meta, but IF, CF, UM, SW and DA.

I haven't faced the IF player yet after the supplement, but I don't think an ork mech list would have any chance against him anyways - he has tabled all his opponents so far.

Burna bommers are great fun and they're one of the things that were low-key helped out a lot in CA 2019, with their (very fair) reduction of skorcha missiles. There's still a reason to be somewhat afraid of them even after 2 turns of bommin' now and the fact that they blow up big on a 4+ means there's movement shenanigans to be had with boxing people in/blocking pathways and then forcing them to be slowed down or risk taking a huge explosion.

To be fair, I think all of our planes are good. They're not necessarily top tier compared to other factions' but you can easily find a use for them in most lists

I just love deffkulz wazboms.
2for 300 points
2d3 smasha, 4d3 kustom kannon is the fire power of a gorkanaut with "more" life - 1 to hit, pretty mobile
With all the rerolls just nice

Can somone explain to me why Warbikers are rated better than nobz on bikes after the points drop. I'm new and want to run a biker based list but I just can't see how the regular warbikers are better.

Question about mek guns. I got a box for Christmas and went ahead and built one. Is it worth putting just one in a small army? I plan on eventually getting a trukk kit and using the rest of the bits, but should I even bother with just one gun? Whats the minimum to bring that would be worthwhile?

Coleslaw wrote:
Can somone explain to me why Warbikers are rated better than nobz on bikes after the points drop. I'm new and want to run a biker based list but I just can't see how the regular warbikers are better.

For me, it's about the guns and durability. The huge amount of S5 fire that even 5 bikes can put out with their 6 dakkaguns apiece, on the still T5 4+ frame. When you look at the nobs where you pay around 30% more for an extra wound, S, and attack for close combat on a unit that is probably happiest just moving around the board max speed applying weight of fire where you need it rather than charging in. I do sometimes charge with my bikes but they are not nearly as punchy as they were in editions past and oftentimes I find I've misjudged how good a job they'll do mopping up a unit they've already shot - the same is true for the nobs unless I've poured even more points into them.

Coleslaw wrote:Can somone explain to me why Warbikers are rated better than nobz on bikes after the points drop. I'm new and want to run a biker based list but I just can't see how the regular warbikers are better.

Honestly, neither are great but after the nob on warbike point drop they don't stack up terribly anymore. 3W is a lot better than 2W but you're paying a big premium for it. Considering how expensive ork wargear is those guys can easily run away in cost and running them naked just doesn't differentiate them enough from normal warbikers IMO. Quite frankly, unless you're running them with ded shiny bitz both units are invalidated by big shoota deffkoptas.

Haasbioroid wrote:Question about mek guns. I got a box for Christmas and went ahead and built one. Is it worth putting just one in a small army? I plan on eventually getting a trukk kit and using the rest of the bits, but should I even bother with just one gun? Whats the minimum to bring that would be worthwhile?

It sort of depends on the rest of your force of course but smasha guns are so incredibly cheap still that even just one in your backfield is never a bad investment really

I don't think Warbikers are all that bad *if* you add Kult of Speed.

All of a sudden you can make a 40+ inch charge while taking a Biker Boss. And this gets around both Auspex scan and infiltrators. Deffkoptas require you to take the Wartrike for a similar charge, which sucks hard.

Warbikers differentiate themselves from Deff Koptas because they are designed to get more stuck in. More models, better leadership, more attacks, can take a Big Choppa / PK / Killsaw. A single Deffkopta dies and you can start to lose models (and a single Deff Kopta is not hard to dispatch).

I think they are probably closer to overpriced for what we get category w/ Kult of Speed, like many units in the codex. If they dropped even 3 points a model they might become a really good unit.

Well you don't know, I don't had good success with bikers I really don't like them for the points they cost

tulun wrote:
I don't think Warbikers are all that bad *if* you add Kult of Speed. <SNIP>

Look, I will concede the point that the difference in regards to HQs required is a fair point, but offering up the Kult of Speed detachment as a potential saviour of the unit rings somewhat hollow in my experience.

First off, you're probably taking that detachment solely for that specific stratagem so even just using it once has costed you 3CP. That brings you to the issue of that the bikes will become super quick but has to maintain 6" coherency to the biker boss to advance and charge which will force you to snake back with a not insignificant amount of the unit. That then creates the issue of gun range, deffguns are only 18" which means that often times the back half of the unit only has one or two viable targets, the units you want to charge, which leaves the predicament of if you want to fire them but then risk making your charge harder.

Secondly, they don't really hit hard at all. I mean they're just a boyz squad we've grossly overpaid for. Sure you can buff them with warpath if there are no other targets (and you're still in range) but even then they do very little. Tossing "run through 'em" on them for that 2d6" consolidation could work every once in a while but at this point you're spending 5CP on an aggressively mediocre unit to try and make them good, this not even counting the fact that they're almost 300 points.

Thirdly, terrain shuts them down, hard. If your opponent steps up into ruins then your bikes are dang near useless. Also, they have big bases (especially if this starts getting enforced by the likes of LVO) and you're often slowed down by terrain and it might be difficult to maneuver around the board.

Compare that to the big shoota deffkoptas who for 7 more points get:
- Keyword <fly>, making them ignore terrain, able to jump up in ruins, fall back and shoot etc
- Auto 6" advance
- Built in deepstrike
- Double the amount of wounds
- Double the range on their guns
- Same amount of attacks per point as warbikers but S5 instead of S4
- Cheaper MSU

I love warbikers, I play pure speed freeks and I own a ton of the models. But they aren't good and even if I were inclined to spend CP to make them better they still don't move past the "somewhat usable" territory for me. Warbikers should've been lowered to 19ppm in CA2019 and unless they get some love with PA6 they'll stay on my shelf for anything but fun games from here on in I think.

Hey guys, I just got to reading about the blitz brigade. And considering the pricedrop for FG, it might be interesting.

If you add a character, my guess here would be baddrukk. Give him the relic Blitz Shouta, and now your flashgitz will be able to reroll 1's to hit because the battlewagon itself is affected by the aura. Sure it's just 1 unit. But still that's a lot of damage. And if the BW explodes, you still have that reroll 1 because of badrukk.

Am I missing something here? What do you guys think?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Make them freebootas, and you have 4+shooting gitz, 3+ when triggerd. Rerolling 1s and the rerolls from your ammo runts. That will hurt

Can't give a relic to Badrukk since he's a named character

Ah ofc, well a mek could do the job as well. Or a big mek with kff for extra protection

Gruxz wrote:
Hey guys, I just got to reading about the blitz brigade. And considering the pricedrop for FG, it might be interesting.

If you add a character, my guess here would be baddrukk. Give him the relic Blitz Shouta, and now your flashgitz will be able to reroll 1's to hit because the battlewagon itself is affected by the aura. Sure it's just 1 unit. But still that's a lot of damage. And if the BW explodes, you still have that reroll 1 because of badrukk.

Am I missing something here? What do you guys think?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Make them freebootas, and you have 4+shooting gitz, 3+ when triggerd. Rerolling 1s and the rerolls from your ammo runts. That will hurt

You’re not able to give Badrukk a relic as he is a unique character and those are considered to have their own relics already. You also wouldn’t impart the re-rolls to the occupants of the Battlewagon as re-rolls don’t fit the definition of ‘restrictions or modifiers’. Regardless, if you’re taking a Blitz Brigade detachment then Flash Gitz aren’t bad occupants for one of your wagons anyway. Though I would say that detachment is probably best as Evil Sunz and Flash Gitz are definitely better off in Freebooterz transports so they are able to make use of the trait while embarked.

Why wouldn't the Flashgitz get the reroll? The faq says no to the heavy shooting ability, it says no to re-using strategems on the transport.

That's what I can find on the subject. So why would the rerolls be different from say the freeboota modifier? Or what am I missing? It's not a strategem, nor an ability, that leaves the other 2.

Gruxz wrote:
Why wouldn't the Flashgitz get the reroll? The faq says no to the heavy shooting ability, it says no to re-using strategems on the transport.

That's what I can find on the subject. So why would the rerolls be different from say the freeboota modifier? Or what am I missing? It's not a strategem, nor an ability, that leaves the other 2.

Modifiers are +X or -X. Not rerolls.

 JNAProductions wrote:

Gruxz wrote:
Why wouldn't the Flashgitz get the reroll? The faq says no to the heavy shooting ability, it says no to re-using strategems on the transport.

That's what I can find on the subject. So why would the rerolls be different from say the freeboota modifier? Or what am I missing? It's not a strategem, nor an ability, that leaves the other 2.

Modifiers are +X or -X. Not rerolls.

Hmm I guess, you're right. Well that's a damn shame.

PiñaColada wrote:
[

I love warbikers, I play pure speed freeks and I own a ton of the models. But they aren't good and even if I were inclined to spend CP to make them better they still don't move past the "somewhat usable" territory for me. Warbikers should've been lowered to 19ppm in CA2019 and unless they get some love with PA6 they'll stay on my shelf for anything but fun games from here on in I think.

I did say they were overpriced and should go down by 3 PPM. This is often the case with a lot of Ork units -- cusp of greatness but just not costed aggressively enough.

I don't think Deff Koptas are interchangeable with warbikers in the way you subscribe, though. It takes a lot more resources to shift 12 warbikers over even 5 Deff Koptas (of course, there are major point difference, but you can't even take more than 5 in a squad...). If you are just literally using Deff Koptas to tag tanks, they are great. Warbikers are meant to be as a Boy substitute in a mechanized list (IE, they try to get stuck in and require a bigger response). Deff Koptas are more about trying to contest objectives and tag stray vehicles and weak CC units and really *not* trying to be a Boy substitute.

The advance range is awkward to use but doable. And Deff Koptas have the exact same issue (and in fact, have even less models to string back), require a Wartrike (which is hot garbage), and have no AP in their attacks and don't have enough models to really sustain any sort of counter punch.

Deff koptaz are by far better in meele than bikers.
The prob here is 5man Max

T1nk4bell wrote:
Deff koptaz are by far better in meele than bikers.
The prob here is 5man Max

The Nob with the bikers helps a bit as well, allowing it to be more of a threat to different units a Deff Kopta will bounce off of for sure (Kill Saws or Big Choppas can do some work).

But yes. Because it's a 5 man max squad, you can't really use Deff Koptas the same way as you would bikers. Not to say Deff Koptas aren't good, just it's not exactly a straight comparison. I also find it depressing a single Kopta loss means they can fail morale and start losing models.

Deffkoptas have Mob Rule, while it doesnt help them directly remember its an aura as well as an in-unit effect.
Long as theyre near any ork infantry that still have decent numbers their LD is not a problem.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Deffkoptas have Mob Rule, while it doesnt help them directly remember its an aura as well as an in-unit effect.
Long as theyre near any ork infantry that still have decent numbers their LD is not a problem.

Sure. But then you aren’t really using them the same way. You could have koptas as mobile shooting support with your boys, but that’s not really how you’d use bikers.

If they are charging up turn 1, there’s probably not going to be a blob in range.

T1nk4bell wrote:
Deff koptaz are by far better in meele than bikers.
The prob here is 5man Max

You don't use warbikers to kill things, they are a disruption unit like boyz. You tie up shooting units and restrict movement, so you can build your VP lead. With the second stratagem, it's also extremely easy to arrest units with them, and 2W/5+/4+ is difficult to shift for units not dedicated to close combat.
Due to the large footprint of a unit of 12, I've never had the issue of the warboss not catching up.

Don't get me wrong, 276 points and 5CP compare badly to tellyporting boyz for 210 points and 2 CP, but they kind of do ok at their job.
Biker Nobz do worse because you only get 8 models for the same costs, and number of models is pretty important to arrest things and pull off multi-charges. In general they suffer from having bad melee weapons, like all nob variants.
Big shoota koptas are better on paper, but in general the number of big shootas you want to bring is zero, so I see no reason to buy them a 20 point platform. I'll be giving rokkit koptas another go this weekend though, I'll tell you how that went.

As you could go deathskull deffkoptas, I've been thinking in playing them splitted and with the rockets, so you're rolling 2 dices with 1 reroll in hits with S8 -2 3D, a bunch of koptas can wreck a tank/dread fairly easy

Jep that works. 3 in a brigade deffskullz with rockets is pretty nice
It's about 3-4 hits average ( dakka and reroll include)

All warbikes need in order to work is some bonus charging and like 15/20% point reduction. But again almost everything ork need that

Considering every other biker unit has some form of bonus charge or a "jink"stratagem, yeah warbikers need it.
No idea how salty i was to see White Scars had both + charge and an invul stratagem...

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Considering every other biker unit has some form of bonus charge or a "jink"stratagem, yeah warbikers need it.
No idea how salty i was to see White Scars had both + charge and an invul stratagem...

I’m not actually sure the jink would do that much. Auto cannon spam would still wreck the bikers. But yeah, marines get all the goodies, cause feth xenos.
At least warpath is common enough to take we can always make them base 4 attacks on turn 1.

Honestly it’s just points I think. 32” move that can charge is just solid. And it’s consistent other than a Vect.

Why it’s worth looking at over boys: it gets around infiltrators and auspex scan.

If they were at the 20 point mark I honestly they’d be in a good spot. I dunno about nob bikers though. I guess if they dropped to 30 as well? It seems like they might need more of something to make them tempting. You can also only get 9 to a squad...