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 Dakkamite wrote:
New to 8th edition, haven't played since the dark days of Taudar and the Screamerstar in 6th. Built a ton of vehicles to play mech Orks because not interested in moving 150+ boyz around the board again lol.

Wondering if someone can point me to a basic guide on playing mech orks? Don't want to dredge through the 220 page thread! Doesn't need to be the most powerful just good enough to do ok against most stuff - there more to play than to necessarily win all of the games

Today I played against Death Guard with Mortarion, who in my first turn of shooting tanked about 1500 points of mek gunz, random shootas, a kill tank and five supa kannons losing about 3 of 18 wounds (that was *before* he got hit modifier spells on him etc) He proceded to fly around the map being invincible, healing from another daemon and instantly killing anything he got close to lol. Wondering what you guys recommend for taking down big beasties like this!

I also found that my firepower were routinely being stumped by basic nurglings, who took multiple turns of shooting from multiple units to die after invulns and disgustingly resilient. Any tips on racing units with multiple armour saves like this?

Check the first page for info on units. Generally we struggle against units with invulns and Feel no Pain saves though.

Can't really help without more information. What units do you have available, what is your list? It sounds to me like you need more practice games at this point. With more games you'll get a better understanding of which Ork units deals with the DG units well.

tneva82 wrote:

tulun wrote:

And if you really, really want to Da Jump -> Charge, you still succeed the charge 58% of time (IE: the majority). .

Especially as it\s quite possible the 12" prevention trick becomes more common in future expanding to other factions. Good if you can figure out way to play where that's good support, not key element.

This has actually become quite an issue for me - almost all marine players have finished painting up their shadowspear units, and pretty much all of them brings a unit of infiltrators or two along. While they are pretty expensive for what they do, they still reduce the value of deep strike by a lot.
For that reason, I replaced my boyz with Kult of Speed warbikers and Koptas. The first can do just as much tying up as T1 jumped boyz can, and the latter replace boyz you would tellyport in, as - unlike boyz - just having them start on the board is still a good option.

Jeff Poole in top 8 with Orks.

See the silence of horror? Orks in top 8 on LVO, with 150 boyz. Everybody scared from painting and moving so many boyz

I have just one question - what kind of moving tray does this dude use?

 Dakkamite wrote:
New to 8th edition, haven't played since the dark days of Taudar and the Screamerstar in 6th. Built a ton of vehicles to play mech Orks because not interested in moving 150+ boyz around the board again lol.

Wondering if someone can point me to a basic guide on playing mech orks? Don't want to dredge through the 220 page thread! Doesn't need to be the most powerful just good enough to do ok against most stuff - there more to play than to necessarily win all of the games

Check the first post, and the goon hammer guide linked there - that's pretty much everything you can know about orks.

Today I played against Death Guard with Mortarion, who in my first turn of shooting tanked about 1500 points of mek gunz, random shootas, a kill tank and five supa kannons losing about 3 of 18 wounds (that was *before* he got hit modifier spells on him etc) He proceded to fly around the map being invincible, healing from another daemon and instantly killing anything he got close to lol. Wondering what you guys recommend for taking down big beasties like this!

As someone playing both orks and DG, the simply solution to killing Mortarion is... don't. A unit of lootas shooting twice and rolling 3s for their shots both times aren't enough to kill him, and pretty much every smasha, SSAG or KMB wound has a 50-50 chance to bounce of the invul and when they don't they do less damage due to DR. For orks, trying to down Mortarion is a gamble, if you lose that gamble (like you did), you just skipped your first shooting phase with nothing to show for it.

The thing is, while Mortarion feels incredibly powerful and seems like he is an invincible monster that slaughters everything, he is not actually a great unit.
He has no force multiplication, his shooting can be ignored (if he shoots at all instead of advancing), his psychic abilities are no bigger than those of a sorcerer and he isn't all that fast and has no quick way to get into combat.
With just 10" movement he is not jumping around the table, once he commits to a side, he stays there. If there is Warptime caster with Mortarion, make sure it dies, no matter the cost. Charge your killaklaw warboss into the sorcerer/daemon prince and use all stratagems at your disposal to make sure it goes down.
If you deploy first or Mortarion is deployed near the center, split your immobile elements to the left and right edge of your deployment zone, and put the stuff that can outrun him in the middle as bait. If you are deploying second and Mortarion is sitting on flank, just put all your immobile stuff like mek guns or lootas on the other flank. Don't worry too much about being out of range, neither DG nor Nurgle Daemons nor the Purge are going to outrange you with anything worth your time - they'll come to you. Be careful to not set yourself up for a first turn charge if there is a nurgle tree involved - it allows Mortarion to advance and charge.
Make sure he never gets the jump on more than one of your units, and put sacrificial units (gretchin, support characters, buggies, koptas, mek guns) exactly where he would end up after moving 10" to force him to move less than his maximum speed. Mortarion kills anything he touches, but he usually has four turns to return the investment of 470 points. If he spends two turns smashing gretchin, a KFF mek, a single mek gun or even just moving, you can beat Mortarion without firing a single shot at him.

Meanwhile, kill everything else and score objective, with Mortarion on the table the rest of the army will be fairly small.
Just don't try to kill PBC, instead bog them down with boyz and make sure they can't fall back.
Orks have a lot less trouble than other armies taking out plague bearers, pox walkers, plague marines and drones than other armies, so focus on what you can kill. If Mortarion is not doing his share, the nurgle player will struggle to kill all your units.

I also found that my firepower were routinely being stumped by basic nurglings, who took multiple turns of shooting from multiple units to die after invulns and disgustingly resilient. Any tips on facing units with multiple armour saves like this?

Yeah, don't shoot nurglings unless you have spare big shoots or similar. Either charge them to kill them, or charge them with gretchin and have the little guys duke it out in an epic deathmatch - you'll have more models most of the time and thus be holding the objective.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tomsug wrote:
See the silence of horror? Orks in top 8 on LVO, with 150 boyz. Everybody scared from painting and moving so many boyz

I have just one question - what kind of moving tray does this dude use?

Lucky me got offered an ork army with 120 boyz and 30 storm boyz, all painted

For movement trays, I got the Apoc ones from GW, and think they are working great and are priced fairly, plus they really look nice on any table as they are clear plastic.

Birdsong lost 1 vs RG. 6 out of 8 top 8 are Marines. The only ork lis anywhere top 100 have 120 boyz , no less.
When the meta is trash, you call the trashman.
What I find Interesting is that no Lootas not gunz are in the list. So the whole thing just relay on swarm with bodies the whole board

 Jidmah wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

tulun wrote:

And if you really, really want to Da Jump -> Charge, you still succeed the charge 58% of time (IE: the majority). .

Especially as it\s quite possible the 12" prevention trick becomes more common in future expanding to other factions. Good if you can figure out way to play where that's good support, not key element.

This has actually become quite an issue for me - almost all marine players have finished painting up their shadowspear units, and pretty much all of them brings a unit of infiltrators or two along. While they are pretty expensive for what they do, they still reduce the value of deep strike by a lot.
For that reason, I replaced my boyz with Kult of Speed warbikers and Koptas. The first can do just as much tying up as T1 jumped boyz can, and the latter replace boyz you would tellyport in, as - unlike boyz - just having them start on the board is still a good option.

Yeh haven't played vs those with orks but with necrons and sisters that 12" has already been issue. So i can see value of relying on ds boyz diminishing. Imagine then if eldar or chaos gets their hand on such? Or tau? I find eldars infuriating to ds against already with all the wave serpents, warwalkers, flyers etc making finding effective spot nightmare

 Dakkamite wrote:
New to 8th edition, haven't played since the dark days of Taudar and the Screamerstar in 6th. Built a ton of vehicles to play mech Orks because not interested in moving 150+ boyz around the board again lol.

Wondering if someone can point me to a basic guide on playing mech orks? Don't want to dredge through the 220 page thread! Doesn't need to be the most powerful just good enough to do ok against most stuff - there more to play than to necessarily win all of the games

Today I played against Death Guard with Mortarion, who in my first turn of shooting tanked about 1500 points of mek gunz, random shootas, a kill tank and five supa kannons losing about 3 of 18 wounds (that was *before* he got hit modifier spells on him etc) He proceded to fly around the map being invincible, healing from another daemon and instantly killing anything he got close to lol. Wondering what you guys recommend for taking down big beasties like this!

I also found that my firepower were routinely being stumped by basic nurglings, who took multiple turns of shooting from multiple units to die after invulns and disgustingly resilient. Any tips on facing units with multiple armour saves like this?

Same happened to me earlier against Magnus and LoC, I lost first turn, so magnus was -1 to hit and 3+ invul, LoC 3+ invul, I killed LoC but magnus lost like 4 wounds in 5 rounds of battle.

Next time I lose first turn, I'll focus my fire into his army and feth him

That works nicely with orks who aren't too bothered by MW's. More elite army will hate the MW spam Magnus creates.

im not against painting that many figures im just against fielding nearly 200 models.
Boyz get to a point of the game is extremely dull because with that many there isnt really any tactical thought, just slog forward and hope rolls are in your favor before you charge. The only real choices are which unit gets Da Jumped if you have the weirdboy still and if you can Green Tide a unit back.

Its boring. Even in 7th when boy spam was really all we had i avoided doing it because it was so boring.

Well is exactly that boring like op if ih raven blah. ')

In my local store, tournaments got a 1'15'' timer (itc rules), so no way someone can play this kind of armies

No problem with movement trays

Until you reach cc and it's move, pile in, fight, consolidiate, possibly another pilein and consolidiate

Movement trays XD

An army of 150 bodies + 50 or 60 (maybe more) grots and characters is unplayable in a local tournament (and sometimes not only local), usually you must play 3 or 4 matches in the same day, with a clock.

I see it strong in big tournaments cuz people only play to win at all cost, but i don't see it available in another scenario (like local tournaments where you have a very limited amount of time per battle)

You know that they have 1:30 timer at lvo?

As I told earlier, I'm talking about ITC rules, and 1'15'' is not 1'30'', it must be said.

On the other hand, this is what I found at the time I checked the rules.

We will be using the ITC Chess Clock Rules. Starting day 2, January 25th, players with an undefeated record will be required to use a Chess Clock. All other players on any day of the event will use a Chess Clock for their game if either player wishes to use one. Frontline Gaming will provide Chess Clocks while supplies last. We recommend players bring their own if they wish to be assured access to one.

I would like to see how horde orks plays against marines in 1:30 and win

tneva82 wrote:

Yeh haven't played vs those with orks but with necrons and sisters that 12" has already been issue. So i can see value of relying on ds boyz diminishing. Imagine then if eldar or chaos gets their hand on such? Or tau? I find eldars infuriating to ds against already with all the wave serpents, warwalkers, flyers etc making finding effective spot nightmare

My sparring partner is CWE, and believe me, Forewarned is *plenty* already. If they could limit even further where we place, it would be pointless.

But yeah, but that's exactly it. If the limit of boys usefulness is their ability to be magically teleported forward, and armies seem to be developing more defences against that, it seems a bit pointless.

Why it seems like Warbikers are better (they can start on the board and charge over 40" with Kult of speed), or Stormboys (can move 18 or 20" if ES guaranteed and charge after with a nearby warboss, can deep strike, and be Da Jumped if need be). If I strictly need a deepstrke -> charger, it seems like Kommandos fill this better because i can build it to get around tech too.
It seems generally the consensus here is pushing towards mech anyway, not boy hordes.

I think the block I will approximately try next game will be like:
Deathskulls
Two 20 man Boy Squads (2 Rokkits, Nob w/ Killsaw)
KFF Mek
Mad Dok
Biker boss (almost always take this, but just worth including).

Under both auras in shooting, I shrug off wounds 45% of the time, 30% of the time in CC w/ painboy.

The intention being they try to be a semi-tanky hold on objectives near my deployment zone, or even push in if the opportunity allows into the centre / the edge of their zone. At worst, they'll screen for my backline buggies, Big Trakk, Tankbustas (etc).

I'm really interested if it'll be remotely effective.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Dakkajets fire 18 (6x3 shooting guns) at S6 AP1 1D that hit on 4s if they dont splitfire.

Sometimes they plink off armor due to that AP1 and sometimes they just slaughter things for me. I love them.

im terrible at dice math i just know approximates i can expect. Factoring in DDD or rerolls throws that approximate out of whack lol

Alright.

18 shots (Bad Moonz)
9 hits plus 3 rerolls plus 3 extra shots nets you...
9+1.5+1.75=12.25 hits
3+ to-wound gets you 8.17 wounds

18 shots (Deffskullz)
9 hits plus 1 reroll plus 3 extra shots nets you...
9+.5+1.5=11 hits
3+ to-wound nets you 7.33, plus 1 reroll gets you an extra .67 wounds, for 8 total wounds

They are really close.

The problem with Bad Moons is that reroll 1s is GREAT for Space Marines or other factions that hit on 3+ and have a plethora of 2+ to hit where "Reroll 1s" basically becomes re-roll ALL or 50% of your misses.

12 Bolt shots = 8 hits
With Reroll 1s its 9.3ish

12 Shoota shots = 4 hits
with reroll 1s its 4.66, so at best you have a 2/3rd chance to get 1 extra hit, not exactly stellar.

For Orkz to benefit from what is essentially a 50% reroll misses for SM's Orkz would need reroll 1s and 2s. And realistically, since ork shooting is so piss poor to begin with, and we have no aura's to benefit shooting Bad Moons should get reroll ALL misses. 12 shots go from 4.66 hits to 6.6

that pretty much stems into a response post i put towards Bell of Lost Souls article talking about "long range weapons are killing 40k"

No, its mass RoF with any form of AP or extra damage hitting on 2s or 3s with super easy access to rerolls thats the issue. In a game based on D6's rerolls should be difficult to get, where maybe 1-2 units actually get any at all in a 2k list, not the entire damn army. Especially in an edition they just doubled the average RoF in since twinlinked is now 2x guns rather than "that gun rerolls" - i was rather annoyed to see they did that and gave all imperials super easy access to rerolls anyway.

 Emicrania wrote:
Birdsong lost 1 vs RG. 6 out of 8 top 8 are Marines. The only ork lis anywhere top 100 have 120 boyz , no less.
When the meta is trash, you call the trashman.
What I find Interesting is that no Lootas not gunz are in the list. So the whole thing just relay on swarm with bodies the whole board

It seems boring to play.

I'm not surprised about Lootas or Mek Guns, though. Lootas don't pull their weight against marines (stealthy freaking sucks). And Mek guns have always been pretty bad for Kill Points / Kill more, no? I imagine it's even worse with marines just getting so much more killy.
I imagine it's even more stupid with all of these character dreadnaughts too. "I have a bunch of smashas to destroy your vehicles!" "Actually, all of my awesome vehicles are characters, you can't target them and they'll get free KP off your mek guns".
I dunno why Dreadnaughts get character protection. Fuckin bananas.

Re Bad Moons: the clan trait is actually super mediocre. It just happens to be better than Goffs, Freebootas, Blood Axes, and Snakebites. The only reason BM has ever been good is showin' off. If they lost that stratagem or other clans gained access to it, I guarantee Bad Moons would fall off a cliff.

Orks on warhammer tv stream facing aeldar

 Jidmah wrote:

As someone playing both orks and DG, the simply solution to killing Mortarion is... don't. A unit of lootas shooting twice and rolling 3s for their shots both times aren't enough to kill him, and pretty much every smasha, SSAG or KMB wound has a 50-50 chance to bounce of the invul and when they don't they do less damage due to DR. For orks, trying to down Mortarion is a gamble, if you lose that gamble (like you did), you just skipped your first shooting phase with nothing to show for it.

The thing is, while Mortarion feels incredibly powerful and seems like he is an invincible monster that slaughters everything, he is not actually a great unit.
He has no force multiplication, his shooting can be ignored (if he shoots at all instead of advancing), his psychic abilities are no bigger than those of a sorcerer and he isn't all that fast and has no quick way to get into combat.
With just 10" movement he is not jumping around the table, once he commits to a side, he stays there. If there is Warptime caster with Mortarion, make sure it dies, no matter the cost. Charge your killaklaw warboss into the sorcerer/daemon prince and use all stratagems at your disposal to make sure it goes down.
If you deploy first or Mortarion is deployed near the center, split your immobile elements to the left and right edge of your deployment zone, and put the stuff that can outrun him in the middle as bait. If you are deploying second and Mortarion is sitting on flank, just put all your immobile stuff like mek guns or lootas on the other flank. Don't worry too much about being out of range, neither DG nor Nurgle Daemons nor the Purge are going to outrange you with anything worth your time - they'll come to you. Be careful to not set yourself up for a first turn charge if there is a nurgle tree involved - it allows Mortarion to advance and charge.
Make sure he never gets the jump on more than one of your units, and put sacrificial units (gretchin, support characters, buggies, koptas, mek guns) exactly where he would end up after moving 10" to force him to move less than his maximum speed. Mortarion kills anything he touches, but he usually has four turns to return the investment of 470 points. If he spends two turns smashing gretchin, a KFF mek, a single mek gun or even just moving, you can beat Mortarion without firing a single shot at him.

Meanwhile, kill everything else and score objective, with Mortarion on the table the rest of the army will be fairly small.
Just don't try to kill PBC, instead bog them down with boyz and make sure they can't fall back.
Orks have a lot less trouble than other armies taking out plague bearers, pox walkers, plague marines and drones than other armies, so focus on what you can kill. If Mortarion is not doing his share, the nurgle player will struggle to kill all your units.

I also found that my firepower were routinely being stumped by basic nurglings, who took multiple turns of shooting from multiple units to die after invulns and disgustingly resilient. Any tips on facing units with multiple armour saves like this?

Yeah, don't shoot nurglings unless you have spare big shoots or similar. Either charge them to kill them, or charge them with gretchin and have the little guys duke it out in an epic deathmatch - you'll have more models most of the time and thus be holding the objective.

Yeah I figured on the leave him alone thing. I've only had two games since I started playing again so not really up to scratch on how tough things are with lke 18 wounds. After my first turn I didn't shoot at him again except with random guns that had no other target. I did try fight him with 20 boyz, mega boss and a battlewagon and he ate all of them in one turn lol. I found that other than Nurglings which took stupid amounts of shooting and the invulnerable mortarion everything else I shot at tended to take at least ok amounts of damage.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Check the first page for info on units. Generally we struggle against units with invulns and Feel no Pain saves though.

Can't really help without more information. What units do you have available, what is your list? It sounds to me like you need more practice games at this point. With more games you'll get a better understanding of which Ork units deals with the DG units well.

Have access to most things except the new buggies and any aircraft. Had plenty of practice building whatever I need thats why I like Orks lol

Play with 150 boyz fast is not a problem. I have a metal moving trays with the stick in the midle and all boyz magnetized. It' s a metal plate for 5 25 or 32mm bases. I bring the units like this to the table and deplou and move very very fast.

Any information about the “pure buggies” list? I don' t see the guy in top 100.

I played a fun list of shooty orkz vs Chaos (Khorne) Marines. He brought 2 squads of zerkers in rhinos, 2 Hell Chickens, 2 Demolishers and a couple of other things.

In response I brought a SSAG Big Mek, Warboss on bike with relic klaw, 10 lootas, 8 Mek Guns (5 Traktor and 3 Smasha) 3 Scrapjets 2 Weirdboyz, 60 grotz in 10 man squads for troops and 9 DeffKoptas in 4 units of 2 and a lone kopta (All twin rokkitz)

I was running a completely Freeboota army and it was hilarious, he went first and iced 2 of my Mek gunz and 4ish of my Koptas but on my turn I leveled his army, taking out 1 turkey, both demolishers a hell brute and killing an infantry squad which is what triggered the +1 to hit for my entire army.

I have to be honest, I was floored with how good they performed with that +1 to hit, the biggest issue I ran into was durability. Once my opponent realized what to kill, those things started dying quickly. the Scrapjets did okish, their guns are just too unreliable still. Ironically, I never once hit with a wing missile even though they were 3+ to hit because of the +1 and the +1 for targeting vehicles, and the Rokkit Kannon was just swingy as hell,one turn they killed a demolisher, the next they failed to kill an infantry squad in the open.

next game I am going to try out the Deffskullz, but I can't see them doing much better then my army did this time.

SemperMortis wrote:

In response I brought a SSAG Big Mek, Warboss on bike with relic klaw, 10 lootas, 8 Mek Guns (5 Traktor and 3 Smasha) 3 Scrapjets 2 Weirdboyz, 60 grotz in 10 man squads for troops and 9 DeffKoptas in 4 units of 2 and a lone kopta (All twin rokkitz)

You don't have rule of 3 in use? If so why even 2 strong squads? 9 deff koptas in solo squadrons would be lot better.

I was using rule of 3, I brought 2 battalions

SemperMortis wrote:
I was using rule of 3, I brought 2 battalions

That doesn't matter. Rule Of Three is where you can have a max of three datasheets of the same type across your entire army at 2k points. (Excepting Dedicated Transports and Troops.)

Will orks be featured on Warhammer TV? They're in the top 8.

SemperMortis wrote:
I was using rule of 3, I brought 2 battalions

Issue isn't number of detachments but number of datasheets you use. 4+1=5 and pretty sure that's more than 3 and even goes beyond 4 which you can use in bigger games. You are limited in # of detachments and # of datasheets you use. However # of detachments doesn't alter # of datasheets you can use. With RO3 you can use max 3 datasheets(aka different units). Doesn't matter if 2 is on det 1 and 2 is det 2. It's still more than 3 datasheets.