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 flandarz wrote:
GW doesn't always nerf things because they're "bad". Sometimes they just do it because it's "not what we envisioned".

Also, to be fair, isn't the Biker Boss Legends anyway?

Nope, he still exists under the FW section for Orks. We'll see what his "revised' profile looks like once FW gets around to rereleasing the indexes, but until then most people are just using the old index rules as a placeholder.

is Snikrot a warboss? Could he use that new stratagem?

Yeah ive always wondered is the Bikerboss legends? Its under the FW section but has no FW rule.... Do we use the index rules or, currently as of yet, C2019 has made him an invalid option kind of like the Big Mek with Kustom Force Field?


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 Grimskul wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
GW doesn't always nerf things because they're "bad". Sometimes they just do it because it's "not what we envisioned".

Also, to be fair, isn't the Biker Boss Legends anyway?

Nope, he still exists under the FW section for Orks. We'll see what his "revised' profile looks like once FW gets around to rereleasing the indexes, but until then most people are just using the old index rules as a placeholder.

Is a place holder legal though in tournament settings?

Neat.

Side note: whats the best Trait to pair with this (and, obviously, Da Killa Klaw)?

'Ard as Nailz makes improves your durability against S10, which encompasses a lot of the things you'd be concerned about.

Might is Right gives you +1S and A. The Attack is pretty good, but the Strength is kind of a wash (unless you're up against T7).

Brutal but Kunnin' let's you rerolls hit rolls in CC (like Ghaz) and gives you +1D if you're charged, were charged, etc.

Honestly, I think BbK might be better than MiR.

definitely BBK
That 4D is huge. Oneshots Cents and lays the hurtin' on any vehicles he catches.

Brutal but kunnin for warboss on bike... zhardsnark dont give him a warlord trait since he’s a named character and ES trait isn’t amazing.

But zhardsnark already has more atks and wounds then a normal warboss in bike and his klaw procs mortal wounds on 6.
9 wounds and 6 atks is a lot for a biker boss...

I think everyone should be happy that the saga isn’t just a waste of paper
So far it seems a pretty decent addition to an already strong army, gonna definatly start using my burna bombers again.

Yeah, these reveals are giving me motivation to finish off a bunch of projects that are currently lying around half-finished. I've got a squad of sentry-bot themed deff dreads (obviously a candidate for the speed job), a proper custom biker boss, and two planes (looted valk and whatever fish the tau bomber is named after) to get done in the next two weeks, now.

Feeling good about what we've seen so far, hopefully the rest doesn't disappoint too much (still, wouldn't be the worst PA even if we stopped here).

We got GHAZ you guys. A new, centrepiece, badass model. We did good, regardless.

It's legitimately hilarious that the best thing in the book...can't be used if you take Ghaz.

You couldn't make this stuff up if you try. The guy who said "nothing in the book makes Ghaz better" wasn't kidding: in fact, what's in the book makes Ghaz much worse!

 flandarz wrote:
Piston Job:

Most efficient on Dreadz, but they also need it the least.

Surprisingly decent on the Stompa, making it more likely you get the big boy into CC, but... it's still the Stompa, so pass.

Best unit to use it on is Kanz. For 300ish pts, you got fairly mobile a durable platform of 6 BS4+ Rokkitz. Take em in a Dreadwaagh and you could double-shoot and net an average of 7 hits. Not too shabby for 300 pts.

Conversely, you could not take KillaKanz which are...garbage and take 3 Megatrack scrapjets instead. same price, you get on average 12 Rokkitz at BS5 and 3 at BS4 (against vehicles) a turn as well as 36 big shoota shots, half of which are at BS4. Plus, they are base movement 10 and are better in CC in my opinion. Not to mention, if you take them in a FreeBoota detachment its fairly easy to get them +1 BS. Suddenly you have significantly more dakka and just as accurate...some of which is MORE accurate. In my opinion, much better bang for your buck.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
warboss is gonna have so much Cp dumped on him...

1 for Da Biggest Boss
1 for Relic
1 for Extra Warlord Trait (if its a thing)

And thats just the building part, nevermind the during the turn stuff.

Somehow i feel skeptical about putting all that into 1 T5 4++ save model....when so many things in melee can kill him in 2 hits anyway.

My warboss is going to be running around with Da Killa Klaw, Da Biggest Boss, Brutal but Kunnin, and he is going to have a dedicated weirdboy to put Fists of Gork on him. Suddenly my Warboss is running around as a 80pt Knight Destroyer. 7 Attacks at S 18, rerolling hits and wounds, -3 AP doing 4dmg per wound. Up to 28dmg in CC and that is before you use the strat to let him fight twice, either because he died or he survived and gets to swing again.

We literally have a 80pt character who can theoretically one shot primarchs.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
We got GHAZ you guys. A new, centrepiece, badass model. We did good, regardless.

100%. This guy right here, this guy gets it.

We got amazing new buggy models a while ago and now we've got a jaw-dropping new Ghaz model. I'm happy. And if they follow the usual pattern of only previewing the relatively mediocre stuff, and this is what they're showing, well...we'll soon have good rules as well as a sweet new model to celebrate.

Hey all,

Our Chief Krumpin' Warboss posted his thoughts on the Orks reveal. You can check them out at the site below.

Dustin went 5-1 at LVO and took 58th place this year piloting the Green Tide.

https://www.grimdarkfilthycasuals.com/saga-of-the-beast-preview-faction-focus-orks/

Haha, it didn't even occur to me that you can use tremor shells on him. Poor Ghaz, destined to be the biggest joke in 40k. What a kick in da teef.

I don't think MSJs really need the +3" and reroll Advance.

As for the CC part: 6 Kanz can get 30 S7 AP-2 D2 attacks hitting on 5s. 3 MSJs get 12 S8 AP-2 Dd3 attacks hitting on 4s. The former gets an average of 10 hits while the latter gets an average of 6. Against T7, the former nets 5 Wounds, and the latter 4 Wounds. So, the Kanz will be *slightly* better in CC on average, though I bet the Spiked Ram evens things out pretty nicely.

I didn't say you should field Kanz just because they can get this. Just that they're the best unit to use it on, as they gain the most benefit from it.

 flandarz wrote:
I don't think MSJs really need the +3" and reroll Advance.

As for the CC part: 6 Kanz can get 30 S7 AP-2 D2 attacks hitting on 5s. 3 MSJs get 12 S8 AP-2 Dd3 attacks hitting on 4s. The former gets an average of 10 hits while the latter gets an average of 6. Against T7, the former nets 5 Wounds, and the latter 4 Wounds. So, the Kanz will be *slightly* better in CC on average, though I bet the Spiked Ram evens things out pretty nicely.

I didn't say you should field Kanz just because they can get this. Just that they're the best unit to use it on, as they gain the most benefit from it.

I'd probably still toss it on Deff Dreads. I think they overall net more hits (3 CC dreads should net out to 12 hits at higher str and potentially AP and damage), they have 'Ere we go, and get other Klan kultures the Kans won't get.

I don't blame ya. Unless we get a Grot Subkultur that would make Kanz better, they definitely ain't a competitive choice.


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I had considered maybe running them with Big Shootaz at 190ish pts and seeing if maybe that would help, but they really ain't fast enough to get into CC, even with +3" and a Wartrike nearby to let them advance and charge, and, even with their 4+, the Shootaz ain't gonna do nothing worth the cost of bringing them.

 office_waaagh wrote:
Yeesh, everyone is so down on Ghaz.

He's fine. Not "add him to any army and he makes that army better," but "if you want to play him and you build around him you're not really gimping yourself." Build around him to take advantage of what he brings to the table and he can work. He's probably not going to be showing up on any top tables but he's also not going to be an automatic ticket to the bottom tables either. Unless you're really gunning for an overall win at a bigger event there's probably no reason not to bring him if you've got the models to take advantage of his buffs and he appeals to your play style.

I want to give him a go with two foot bosses, one with da killa klaw and the other with da lukky stick. Not much survives getting hit by that.

(And yes, I am an incorrigible optimist)

I'm very optimistic. I'm optimistic that I can spend the money for that boxset elsewhere, and I'm optimistic that I can build a far better army with other units. I'm optistic that it will lead to far greater flexibity with far less hassle.

That makes me a lot more chipper than having to deal with a word salad that creates headaches for me and requires me to paint my army into a corner. In fact, I'm divine about the whole thing. I've been waiting for Ork's to get an invulnerable save on a warboss since 6th edition neutered the Cybork body. Over the moon about that and I didn't even expect it.

Am I doing it right?

tulun wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
I don't think MSJs really need the +3" and reroll Advance.

As for the CC part: 6 Kanz can get 30 S7 AP-2 D2 attacks hitting on 5s. 3 MSJs get 12 S8 AP-2 Dd3 attacks hitting on 4s. The former gets an average of 10 hits while the latter gets an average of 6. Against T7, the former nets 5 Wounds, and the latter 4 Wounds. So, the Kanz will be *slightly* better in CC on average, though I bet the Spiked Ram evens things out pretty nicely.

I didn't say you should field Kanz just because they can get this. Just that they're the best unit to use it on, as they gain the most benefit from it.

I'd probably still toss it on Deff Dreads. I think they overall net more hits (3 CC dreads should net out to 12 hits at higher str and potentially AP and damage), they have 'Ere we go, and get other Klan kultures the Kans won't get.

Um yeah 7"+1"+3" + 1+D6" reroll.

And if you advance with evil sunz you're firing at the same ballistic skill as a damn kan.

Add +1 to charge and reroll charge range, good night. Dreads are way more intriguing than kanz unless they get grot clan bonuses that outweigh clan abilities.

I have a feeling we’re going to be extremely crunched for CP. we get a lot but also have good stratagems

Issue with using it on Dreadz is that Tellyport exists. That's the optimal way to drop your Dreadz (they generally just get shot to death if you don't), so the movement doesn't help them much. Kanz can't be Tellyported, so again, they make better use of the 3" and reroll advance buff.

 Billagio wrote:
I have a feeling we’re going to be extremely crunched for CP. we get a lot but also have good stratagems

Honestly, anything that gives a viable alternative to the dull-as-dog-poop "more dakka shoot twice" that everything is built around right now...

Though the idea of dreads getting first turn charge is rather wonderful. Just have a wartrike wandering behind a unit of piston equiped evil suns dreads and thats a minimum 12 inch move/advance with rerolls on the advance.

 deffrekka wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
I just realized that you can use two burna bombers to clear a spot crash the third one into.

I guess the time has finally come to built the third set of burna bomms.

why didnt you have 3 to begin with ahaha I have 5 Dakkajets, 3 of each Bommer and then only 1 Wazbom. I loved the Ork planes in older editions.

I have three jets which are fully magnetized to build into any plane. I just haven't built the burna bommer load-out three times because I never had the urge to field three - and I pre-ordered those planes when they were released

 flandarz wrote:
Issue with using it on Dreadz is that Tellyport exists. That's the optimal way to drop your Dreadz (they generally just get shot to death if you don't), so the movement doesn't help them much. Kanz can't be Tellyported, so again, they make better use of the 3" and reroll advance buff.

You can start dredds on the board if your are running 6-9 of them as deathskulls. They don’t go down that easily. The move thing can be good in certain situations but as orks, we need to save cp for dealing damage imho, or for green tide and such. Or for making a super warboss now hah hah. Spending1 cp for faster dredds, if you factor everything in... I doubt it will be often done, imho

yukishiro1 wrote:
Haha, it didn't even occur to me that you can use tremor shells on him. Poor Ghaz, destined to be the biggest joke in 40k. What a kick in da teef.

I'm takin them teef to da bank. Ghaz teef, gotcha Ghaz teef here. One Ghaz toof for a Burna Bomba!

 TedNugent wrote:
I'm very optimistic. I'm optimistic that I can spend the money for that boxset elsewhere, and I'm optimistic that I can build a far better army with other units. I'm optistic that it will lead to far greater flexibity with far less hassle.

That makes me a lot more chipper than having to deal with a word salad that creates headaches for me and requires me to paint my army into a corner. In fact, I'm divine about the whole thing. I've been waiting for Ork's to get an invulnerable save on a warboss since 6th edition neutered the Cybork body. Over the moon about that and I didn't even expect it.

Am I doing it right?

I...think so?

I'm having a hard time parsing your writing, so I don't know if I understand which parts are sincere and which parts are intended to be sarcastic. But if you're happy then yes, you are doing it right.

I take it from what I can understand that you want to buy the boxset from an alternative source, but not actually use Ghaz in games because you don't want to play the type of army that would synergize well with him. If this is the case, and this is what makes you happy, and you are excited or optimistic at the prospect of doing this, then you are indeed still doing it right.

Another interpretation is that you don't intend to buy the boxset because owning the model doesn't appeal to you, and you don't want to own models that are not optimized for use in games with the other units of the army you intend to play. Once again, if you are happy and looking forward to doing this, then you are yet again doing it right.

If your phrase "word salad" is intended to imply that what I wrote previously was unintelligible, then I apologize if my effort at idiomatic speech has created confusion. My intended meaning was as follows: If one wishes to use Ghazghkull in a game, and one's objective is to win that game, then ideally one should design the rest of the army to take advantage of Ghazghkull's abilities. Such an army will have a reasonable, if not maximal, prospect of success. If one does not wish to use Ghazghkull in games, one is under no obligation to do so, of course.

Issue is that the same armies that would synergize well with Ghaz will do the same with an 80pt Warboss, meaning you get an extra 200 pts to spend on other stuff. And that Warboss will be able to match or exceed Ghaz in every relevant way. So even if you could field an army with a "reasonable" chance of success with Ghaz, you could field the exact same army with the Warboss, and include almost a full unit of Boyz on top of it, increasing your odds of success.


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addnid wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
Issue with using it on Dreadz is that Tellyport exists. That's the optimal way to drop your Dreadz (they generally just get shot to death if you don't), so the movement doesn't help them much. Kanz can't be Tellyported, so again, they make better use of the 3" and reroll advance buff.

You can start dredds on the board if your are running 6-9 of them as deathskulls. They don’t go down that easily. The move thing can be good in certain situations but as orks, we need to save cp for dealing damage imho, or for green tide and such. Or for making a super warboss now hah hah. Spending1 cp for faster dredds, if you factor everything in... I doubt it will be often done, imho

A 6++ really ain't gonna do much to keep them around. They're nearly 100 pts a model, and I'd, personally, not want to risk that on a 16.6% chance to not get destroyed. I'm also not sure if you could use the Stratagem for a Kustom Job more than once; if so your opponent will take the fast ones out first. If not, then you spent 3 CP to do this. Not sure if that's a great idea.

 office_waaagh wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
I'm very optimistic. I'm optimistic that I can spend the money for that boxset elsewhere, and I'm optimistic that I can build a far better army with other units. I'm optistic that it will lead to far greater flexibity with far less hassle.

That makes me a lot more chipper than having to deal with a word salad that creates headaches for me and requires me to paint my army into a corner. In fact, I'm divine about the whole thing. I've been waiting for Ork's to get an invulnerable save on a warboss since 6th edition neutered the Cybork body. Over the moon about that and I didn't even expect it.

Am I doing it right?

I...think so?

I'm having a hard time parsing your writing, so I don't know if I understand which parts are sincere and which parts are intended to be sarcastic. But if you're happy then yes, you are doing it right.

I take it from what I can understand that you want to buy the boxset from an alternative source, but not actually use Ghaz in games because you don't want to play the type of army that would synergize well with him. If this is the case, and this is what makes you happy, and you are excited or optimistic at the prospect of doing this, then you are indeed still doing it right.

Another interpretation is that you don't intend to buy the boxset because owning the model doesn't appeal to you, and you don't want to own models that are not optimized for use in games with the other units of the army you intend to play. Once again, if you are happy and looking forward to doing this, then you are yet again doing it right.

If your phrase "word salad" is intended to imply that what I wrote previously was unintelligible, then I apologize if my effort at idiomatic speech has created confusion. My intended meaning was as follows: If one wishes to use Ghazghkull in a game, and one's objective is to win that game, then ideally one should design the rest of the army to take advantage of Ghazghkull's abilities. Such an army will have a reasonable, if not maximal, prospect of success. If one does not wish to use Ghazghkull in games, one is under no obligation to do so, of course.

When I said "word salad" I was referring to Ghaz's rules

 flandarz wrote:
Issue is that the same armies that would synergize well with Ghaz will do the same with an 80pt Warboss, meaning you get an extra 200 pts to spend on other stuff. And that Warboss will be able to match or exceed Ghaz in every relevant way. So even if you could field an army with a "reasonable" chance of success with Ghaz, you could field the exact same army with the Warboss, and include almost a full unit of Boyz on top of it, increasing your odds of success.

This is exactly it, yeah.

Ghaz might have *marginal* matchups where he's better. If he's magically aggressively costed (IE, his PL is for narrative play, not matched), we might have a conversation because he does bring some stuff to the table the warboss doesn't... but I think this is a pipe dream.

Overall, 80 point boss +200 points worth of stuff will outperform in a TAC.


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And let's be honest here.

It's not just Ghazkull, but probably:

1) Makari
2) A painboy
3) A detachment of Goffs that you don't give a gak about taking in competitive play.

The buffbot that requires an entire themed army to support his clunky buffs.