Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Reading over the Mek Workshop, all it says is "once per turn" for Kustom Jobs, so I don't know. Might be they COULD stack, but would it really be worth sitting around doing nothing for a whole turn for a minor bonus on the next turn and a 16.7 (or 50% if you wanna spent CP) for a +1D? Especially considering your opponent is gonna see what you're trying?

 flandarz wrote:
Reading over the Mek Workshop, all it says is "once per turn" for Kustom Jobs, so I don't know. Might be they COULD stack, but would it really be worth sitting around doing nothing for a whole turn for a minor bonus on the next turn and a 16.7 (or 50% if you wanna spent CP) for a +1D? Especially considering your opponent is gonna see what you're trying?

Not saying its good, just trying to find any good way to use it. Thought this might be the least bad one.^^

 Khorzain wrote:
So, Saga says that all the kustom jobs you include must be different and be given to different units, but it doesn't say a unit can't have more than one kustom job. Same deal with the workshop, a unit can only receive a kustom job once per turn, but it doesn't say a unit is limited to only having 1.

Since the new kustom jobs are applied before turn 1, then I think it's safe to say you can use the mek workshop turn 1 to give a unit one of the old kustom jobs. Whether that's worth it or not is up to you though lol

Good catch, thanks.

That's basically 5 CP just for the Gork (Ramming speed + Kustom Job + tellyporta).

Did that before the new rules dropped as well and did never regret the investment. Well, unless that one time i failed to charge those damn agressors that beat the poor Gorka down afterwards. :(

Tbh either variant kinda needs to be ported, a Morka/Gorka simply wont survive with a 5++ and t8 in the day and age of shooty 40k

Well if you go first you can deploy the Morka, its a 5/6 chance you get the first turn.
Against infantry primaris (I face them a lot.) i deploy him as well out of range, that 48" + move gets him to a nice spot most of the time.

I just don't like that WC9. The relic we could give the Weirdboy doesn't even help, as none of these powers seem to count as Waaagh psychic powers.

Damn it, i hope they FAQ that as well.

Oh and lets see if they FAQ that Medi Squigg strat can still heal Ghaz. Not sure if that was intended, same as all the stuff going on with his and the KFF datasheets.

Call me crazy, but my reading of "must be given to different units" means that you cannot give each unit more than one KJ.

 Jidmah wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
You get two rerolls to hit, two rerolls to wound, and two rerolls for damage for each scrapjet as DS thanks to the interaction. That means you're effectively *much* better than WS3.

That's a 2.25 hits on average per fight phase, WS3 is 2.66 hits. So your statement is just flat out wrong.

8 str 8 -2 1d3 damage attacks at WS4 rerolling two rolls to hit, two wound, and two damage, plus a 50% chance for 1d3 mortal wounds. That's sick combat potential.

It's not. It's ~5 damage to a T7 vehicle, ~4 damage to T8,, two dead primaris or five dead guardsmen. All of which means that your scrapjet is stuck in combat and can't use it's rokkit cannon, big shootas and wing missiles next turn.
Nobz with PK are better in combat than scrapjets, and they see no play because they suck at killing stuff. Don't waste CP on upgrading something from bad to mediocre.

Yeah, you're right, I was baking two rerolls into each phase for some stupid reason. It is an average of 2.25 hits per phase. It's a little over 5 damage to a standard T7 vehicle with a 3+ save, plus the average 1 MW from the charge, plus the defensive benefits of being in combat. I just don't see any world where you are better off forgoing 6 damage and sitting there and letting the vehicle shoot you rather than charging in and doing an additional 5 damage and disabling their shooting for a round (unless they have special overwatch capabilities / ability to fall back for free/ etc).

Obviously you don't want to charge something that will stay in combat with you like chaff infantry, or against anything that's good in combat. But against anything that isn't good in combat...are they really going to want to sit in combat with your 8str 8 d3 damage attacks for at least two more rounds (their turn and yours) just to disable one round of your shooting, while being unable to shoot your scrapjet? In most cases I would bite the hand off anyone that offered me that bargain.

I mean like take the T7 vehicle example. You charge in and bring it to half health. If you've plinked anything off it form your shooting before the charge, you are statistically more likely than not to destroy that vehicle in their combat phase. If they fall back, you're not in combat any more on your turn, so you've gained 6 free wounds and disabled their shooting. If they stay in combat...statistically you're likely to destroy them, so you gained 10 free wounds and can shoot in your turn.

The only way that turns out badly is if they fall back with their vehicle and charge in some crappy chaff instead...and even so, you shut down their shooting for a turn and did 6 wounds, whereas if you had just sat there, they'd likely have used that vehicle to blow you up.

I just don't see many times it's better to sit there and let them shoot back at you rather than charge in, if you have a charge target worth charging (i.e. not crappy chaff). The effective range on the scrapjet is so low that if you are within 24, you're more often than not safer in combat than out of it, and it doesn't matter how shooty your vehicle is if it isn't going to live to your next shooting phase.

 Grotrebel wrote:


Did that before the new rules dropped as well and did never regret the investment. Well, unless that one time i failed to charge those damn agressors that beat the poor Gorka down afterwards. :(

Well if you go first you can deploy the Morka, its a 5/6 chance you get the first turn.
Against infantry primaris (I face them a lot.) i deploy him as well out of range, that 48" + move gets him to a nice spot most of the time.

I think the big problem I see is with dropping 5 CP off the top for the Gork is our current CP burn rate...

So assuming we do triple bat, which limits army comp quite a bit (requiring 6 HQs and 9 troop choices... I have often been doing bat, bat, outrider for instance)... we have:
1 CP for two relics (Klaw + SSAG)
1 CP For Da Biggest Boss (cause YES)
1 CP for Vigilus
5 CP for Gork option (Ramming, Porta, 1 Kustom Job)
We're now down to 10 CP before anything else. And there are other kustom jobs that are insane (Dragsta, +1 BS for Mork/Gork/Dreads, Forktress, Wartrike upgrade), Stratagems people seem interested in (Spanner, MAN extra damage, possibly MA Big Mek upgrade)

I think army comp is about to get interesting, as we need to start moving away from the Tellyporta if we want to use all of these toys. I am actually pretty excited to see what is cooked up.

If you go vehicle heavy, you'll find Orkz are far less CP hungry.

Most of what eats ork CP is stuff to do with double shooting with more dakka, whether with lootas, SSAG, or whatever. If you run a list that doesn't revolve around that, your CP consumption goes way down.

I do like that the supplement doesn't really do much for the double-shoot focused list and seems to be trying to tempt you to build stuff that doesn't revolve around it. Whether it does enough I'm not sure, but it's good to see.

I don't think SSAG mek is going anywhere though, the relic is just too good, even in a list where you never spend a single CP on him beyond the cost of the specialist detachment (and probably the 1CP for the extra relic for the klaw too).

Yeah, being able to spend a bit of CP pre game and have your stuff work pretty much autonomously will be good.

You might have to *gasp* choose what you use your CP on

1 CP for two relics (Klaw + SSAG)
1 CP warphead
1 CP For Da Biggest Boss
1 CP for Vigilus
1 CP dragsta kustom job- gyroscopic
1 CP killa kan kustom job- sparkly bits
3 CP gorkanaut- kustom job- slug gubbin, teleport

My list
Evil suns detachment-
Biker boss and relic klaw (or zhardsnark) w da biggest boss
Kff big Mek (if kff for mega armor Mek changes then klever boss)
1x 30 choppa boys
2x 10 shoota boys


Death skull detachment (vigilus)
SSAG Mek w warlord trait bbk
Warpead- mechanical seizure and da jump
3x 10 grots
Gorkanaut- slugg gubbin, teleport
3x dragsta- gyroscopic


Grot detachment
SAG Mek
3x10 grots
6x smasha gun (because I got 5 and will get 1 more)
6x killa kans w 3 rokkits each (sparkly bits)
(This is 18x bs3 reroll 1 str8 ap-2 d3) move over tankbustas!

Useful in game strategems
Mob up and green tide
Vigilus shoot twice on gork
Temperamental Shokk drive on dragsta

I kinda feel I’m low on boys and the gorkanaut is a point/cp trap even with +1bs, extra shots, death skull trait, and vigilus shoot twice... but he sounds like he can break a hole in screens.

I've been drinking, but the immediate issue I see is that you included both vehicles and infantry. That gives your opponent optimal targets for all their weaponry. Better to stick to one or the other.

Well, all ork lists have to include vehicles and infantry, because each batt needs a minimum of 30 infantry models. All he's got is one unit of 30 boyz plus another 10 to mob up, which is reasonable even in an infantry-lite list. Though I might cut it down to just the unit of 30, I'm not sure mob up is all that useful in that sort of list.

The more I think about maniacal seizure the more I love it. I dunno, it might be better then visions.

It’s like dooming a unit. Our choppas and shootas are now AP-1; point it as a vehicle and watch how it melts to rocket fire at ap-3.

Seems crazy how useful it is. Even if you just use it as a debuff for the hit modifier. It’s crazy good.

Doom is reroll wounds. This is basically jinx + drain rolled into one ability, with the drain better because it's all hits not just melee ones, but the jinx worse because it doesn't impact invulnerable saves.

But yes, it's wickedly good. There's a reason jinx and drain are two separate powers, not combined into one. I think the BA one is arguably the most powerful, but you have to be BA for that, so it's kinda a non-starter. The DS one is definitely the best of the powers in competitive kultures, and it's one of the better powers in the game, though probably not the best - doom is still the best power in the game IMO, with Death Hex number two.

tulun wrote:
The more I think about maniacal seizure the more I love it. I dunno, it might be better then visions.

It’s like dooming a unit. Our choppas and shootas are now AP-1; point it as a vehicle and watch how it melts to rocket fire at ap-3.

Seems crazy how useful it is. Even if you just use it as a debuff for the hit modifier. It’s crazy good.

The issue is range...
Maniacal seizure I need to target the enemy within 18in of psyker
Visions I need to target a friendly ork vehicle within 12in and they can shoot however far they can...
I was tempted to put a gorkanaut for visions in the evil sun detachment for the full rerolls however it wasn’t worth losing the option for the death skulls traits and vigilus shoot twice strategem. And vigilus stays with the SSAG.
Visions is useable right from turn 1 whereas maniacal seizures will be more situational.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

yukishiro1 wrote:
Well, all ork lists have to include vehicles and infantry, because each batt needs a minimum of 30 infantry models. All he's got is one unit of 30 boyz plus another 10 to mob up, which is reasonable even in an infantry-lite list. Though I might cut it down to just the unit of 30, I'm not sure mob up is all that useful in that sort of list.

I’d switch 1 squad of orks to Gretchin but there is literally nothing they can grot shield in the evil suns detachment.

I’m assuming the dragsta are better in deathskulls Even though they will suffer a penalty for advancing all the time.. and they won’t lose out in death skulls traits.

Honestly only being allowed 1 kustom job of each type is limiting...

I haven't done the math, but my instinct is to say that even when advancing, you probably end up doing more damage with DS because of the rerolls. For example a reroll damage on a 1d6 weapon is wickedly good, raising your average damage from 3.5 to about 4.5 assuming you reroll 1 to 3 and keep 4+. I suspect based on eyeball math that the wound and damage reroll for the shokkgun outweighs the loss of accuracy on your rokkit - the accuracy of the shokkgun itself stays almost exactly equal (1.56 average hits for hitting on 3s without a reroll vs 1.52 for hitting on 4s rerolling one of the two).

And then you're dramatically better when not advancing, and you get the 6+++. You do lose 2 inches of movement, but it's not like movement is really a consideration on a unit that moves 14 and can teleport literally any time it wants to when it moves.

yukishiro1 wrote:
I haven't done the math, but my instinct is to say that even when advancing, you probably end up doing more damage with DS because of the rerolls. For example a reroll damage on a 1d6 weapon is wickedly good, raising your average damage from 3.5 to about 4.5 assuming you reroll 1 to 3 and keep 4+. I suspect based on eyeball math that the wound and damage reroll for the shokkgun outweighs the loss of accuracy on your rokkit - the accuracy of the shokkgun itself stays almost exactly equal (1.56 average hits for hitting on 3s without a reroll vs 1.52 for hitting on 4s rerolling one of the two).

Dragstas are unequivolcally better as Deathskulls.

On the weapon that matters: 1.25 hits vs 1.33 hits if they both advance (rocket is obviously worse). You are also less likely to overheat because of your reroll.
You also get a wound and damage re-roll. Plus a 6++ invul. 100% these should be DS.

gungo wrote:
The issue is range...
Maniacal seizure I need to target the enemy within 18in of psyker
Visions I need to target a friendly ork vehicle within 12in and they can shoot however far they can...
I was tempted to put a gorkanaut for visions in the evil sun detachment for the full rerolls however it wasn’t worth losing the option for the death skulls traits and vigilus shoot twice strategem. And vigilus stays with the SSAG.
Visions is useable right from turn 1 whereas maniacal seizures will be more situational.

I don't think I agree with this.

The main issue with visions is actual, good targets for the buff. The problem is we have 4 *really* good targets for visions, 3 of which requiring 9+ psychic tests. Targeting a unit of koptas or a single scrapjet will be largely underwhelming.
1) Stompa (non viable)
2) Gorkanaut (shouldn't start on the board)
3) Morkanaut (as some have argued, shouldn't start on the board. This one is probably best Turn 1 though)
4) Gunwagon IF the new Kustom Job gun can shoot twice with periscope, averaging 14 rocket shots a round.

If you go first, you might struggle to find many targets for 24" rockets, so Visions might largely be wasted except on Morks. If you go second, a weirdboy moving and advancing after the enemy has probably moved toward you means they'll likely be in range anyway.

I think ML is way less situational than you describe. Applying a negative hit modifier is no longer good against pretty much every army in the game? Similarly, needing a unit deleted is common, and Orks rather lacklustre AP is upgraded.

If the WC wasn't 9 I might be more on board... but I can see it whiffing all the time. 7+ doesn't require as much waagh energy to make it pretty likely to go off.

I meant situational as getting your wierdboy in range of the enemy. Although 18in is decent it’s not always in range which we tend to notice when you look for decent smite targets.

It's actually even closer on the hits, because of DDD on 6s only. My calculator says 1.56 vs 1.52, i.e. almost exactly the same.

The problem with visions is that none of the targets you want to cast it on want to be ES, and most of the targets you want to cast it on require a 9, which is pushing it even with the +3 to cast.

18 inches is a limitation on the DS power, but not a huge one. It does mean you have to be more aggressive with your weirdboy, but that's rarely going to be a huge issue, and it's often the better play anyhow frankly because if you sit him back he's generally not doing a whole lot after his first turn warpath + da jump anyway, which is a waste.

yukishiro1 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
You get two rerolls to hit, two rerolls to wound, and two rerolls for damage for each scrapjet as DS thanks to the interaction. That means you're effectively *much* better than WS3.

That's a 2.25 hits on average per fight phase, WS3 is 2.66 hits. So your statement is just flat out wrong.

8 str 8 -2 1d3 damage attacks at WS4 rerolling two rolls to hit, two wound, and two damage, plus a 50% chance for 1d3 mortal wounds. That's sick combat potential.

It's not. It's ~5 damage to a T7 vehicle, ~4 damage to T8,, two dead primaris or five dead guardsmen. All of which means that your scrapjet is stuck in combat and can't use it's rokkit cannon, big shootas and wing missiles next turn.
Nobz with PK are better in combat than scrapjets, and they see no play because they suck at killing stuff. Don't waste CP on upgrading something from bad to mediocre.

Yeah, you're right, I was baking two rerolls into each phase for some stupid reason. It is an average of 2.25 hits per phase. It's a little over 5 damage to a standard T7 vehicle with a 3+ save, plus the average 1 MW from the charge, plus the defensive benefits of being in combat. I just don't see any world where you are better off forgoing 6 damage and sitting there and letting the vehicle shoot you rather than charging in and doing an additional 5 damage and disabling their shooting for a round (unless they have special overwatch capabilities / ability to fall back for free/ etc).

Obviously you don't want to charge something that will stay in combat with you like chaff infantry, or against anything that's good in combat. But against anything that isn't good in combat...are they really going to want to sit in combat with your 8str 8 d3 damage attacks for at least two more rounds (their turn and yours) just to disable one round of your shooting, while being unable to shoot your scrapjet? In most cases I would bite the hand off anyone that offered me that bargain.

I mean like take the T7 vehicle example. You charge in and bring it to half health. If you've plinked anything off it form your shooting before the charge, you are statistically more likely than not to destroy that vehicle in their combat phase. If they fall back, you're not in combat any more on your turn, so you've gained 6 free wounds and disabled their shooting. If they stay in combat...statistically you're likely to destroy them, so you gained 10 free wounds and can shoot in your turn.

The only way that turns out badly is if they fall back with their vehicle and charge in some crappy chaff instead...and even so, you shut down their shooting for a turn and did 6 wounds, whereas if you had just sat there, they'd likely have used that vehicle to blow you up.

I just don't see many times it's better to sit there and let them shoot back at you rather than charge in, if you have a charge target worth charging (i.e. not crappy chaff). The effective range on the scrapjet is so low that if you are within 24, you're more often than not safer in combat than out of it, and it doesn't matter how shooty your vehicle is if it isn't going to live to your next shooting phase.

You're 100% on spot with this analysis, and that's exactly what the nose drill is for: Finishing unit off. But in the light of what else you can get for a single CP now, I think there is no need to spend it on something that might very well not come up in a game at all. I've been playing my buggies a lot recently, and in my experience I only charge something with a scrap jet every other game, and one out of three times, I regret doing so.

Yeah, I can see that point of view. I guess my counterpoint is that in terms of efficiency, spending 1CP to literally double the combat potential of three scrapjets is so massively efficient that it seems like a pretty solid choice even if you don't use it every game. Being able to do an average 5-6 damage to anything under T8 in one combat round is a pretty nifty thing to have up your sleeve on three separate buggies.

 deffrekka wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
I'm honestly kind of wondering if a Biker army would be viable now.

Ahem, I hate to say, but I am curious about theorycrafting a Snakebites Biker clan.

They are tough to give a 6+++ to, so that would actually be ideal. A Bikerboss w/ the WL trait and a Wartrike with the Snazztrike. 4++/6+++ with 8 wounds and a 4+/5++/6+++ with 8 wounds.

Then a big mob of Warbikers or Biker Nobs with 4+/6+++ and +1S on the charge for Big Choppas or Choppas. That seems pretty GD effective to me for a suboptimal clan. A 12 man Biker mob with S5 and +1 to wound could do some dirty. You could also throw a -1 to hit on the Warbiker mob or Biker Nobs and actually make them pretty GD tough to move.

I still think Warbikers need to drop 3-5pts before being viable. Costing more than Marine bikers, Reavers and Windriders is silly. I want to use my Bikers again but they just take up a huge chunk of the army

I agree. I've been running warbikers a lot, and their job is pretty much the same as da jumping boyz. With the help of the kult of speed detachment, they reliably get off turn one charges and bog down infantry which usually struggles to fight there way out of it because wounding T5/4+ is difficult. I rarely, if ever use the -1 to hit because its usually no problem to arrest a unit - not even tri-pointing them, just surround them so 6" movements doesn't get them out of 1".
They are doing their job just fine, but are too expensive for that.
I've experimented with supporting them with a pain boy, but it rarely made a difference, so I think neither will the snakebite clan. Deff skulls work much better, since you get a 6++ vs power swords and fists, as well as re-rolls for the nob's killsaw.

Nob bikers still are way overpriced, 330 points before wargear is just insane, just bring a morkanaut instead.

In general, Snakebites is a bad culture, with a bad warlord trait, a mediocre stratagem and relic and now a mediocre psychic power. Picking about anything else, including goff, is going to be better.

Bikes really suffer from not being able to bypass screens IMO. You are paying premium points for a unit that (1) doesn't hit hard in combat, (2) folds under any sustained fire, and (3) struggles to bypass screens. You gotta hope you can wrap and trap, that the screen doesn't have fly, and that they don't have a decent melee unit that can just come in and wipe you since your defense and offense in combat is both pretty junk for a unit of your cost.

If they were closer to like 15 points - even if that meant losing one of the dakkaguns - I think they'd be much closer to viable.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Bikes really suffer from not being able to bypass screens IMO. You are paying premium points for a unit that (1) doesn't hit hard in combat, (2) folds under any sustained fire, and (3) struggles to bypass screens. You gotta hope you can wrap and trap, that the screen doesn't have fly, and that they don't have a decent melee unit that can just come in and wipe you since your defense and offense in combat is both pretty junk for a unit of your cost.

If they were closer to like 15 points - even if that meant losing one of the dakkaguns - I think they'd be much closer to viable.

The point was, does +1S on the charge change that? It makes the Big Choppa wound MEQs on 2's, vehicles on 4's or 3's, and makes each choppa wound on 3's on MEQs/5's on vehicles. With 72 shots on a full unit combined with S5 on the charge, that seems like a fairly efficient unit in terms of mobility, shooting, and assault on its face.

They average 5.82 wounds on MEQs at BS5 and 6.5 wounds on first round of combat on MEQs with the strategem. They have 25 wounds behind a 4+/T5. For 281 points.

By contrast, a 30 man mob of Shootas puts out 3.65 wounds on MEQs from shooting, 11.3 in combat . They have T4/6+ for 215 points. That seems pretty comparable when you account for the mobility difference.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Bikes really suffer from not being able to bypass screens IMO. You are paying premium points for a unit that (1) doesn't hit hard in combat, (2) folds under any sustained fire, and (3) struggles to bypass screens. You gotta hope you can wrap and trap, that the screen doesn't have fly, and that they don't have a decent melee unit that can just come in and wipe you since your defense and offense in combat is both pretty junk for a unit of your cost.

Screens actually never have been my problem. You can usually drive up to 1.1 in front of a screen and gun them down with dakkaguns to charge what's behind them, and I've also had great success with bombing holes into screens with bommer so I can drive past them in the same movement phase. You also don't really need to 'hope' for trapping either, even if 28" movement+charge isn't enough to catch something, you can still use the 2d6 consolidate stratagem.
Have a look at this picture from one of my games:

This something that actually happens quite often, the Ultramarines in the middle aren't actually tri-pointed, but they still can't leave combat, because 6" doesn't take them outside of 1".

If they were closer to like 15 points - even if that meant losing one of the dakkaguns - I think they'd be much closer to viable.

To me, 17 feels like what they should be. They absolutely have identical roles to boyz, so a unit of bikers should cost about the same as a unit of boyz.
23 is what I would pay for a nob biker.

1. Kustom job - You don' t need a Mekboy Workshop to have a custom job. Or it seems to be so, because:

“ If you’ve not got a Mekboy Workshop, you can still choose a Kustom Job through the use of a Stratagem. So, everybody can have a Souped-up Speshul, some Nitro-powered Squigs or a Forktress.”

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/17/orks-da-new-rulezgw-homepage-post-3/


2. Big Mek with KFF
- CLAN lock
- CLAN lock = no kff for grots?? Because the\ do not benefit from CLAN culture
- no wargear option, just choppa
- no TRANSPORT explanation = KFF do not work in transport
- KFF Mek has the KFF ability with the same name like MA Big Mek = this new gakky version should be valit also for the MA Big Mek and for Wazboom Blastajet?
- KFF now works in melee

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/sagabeast-orkmek-kff.jpg

 Tomsug wrote:
1. Kustom job - You don' t need a Mekboy Workshop to have a custom job. Or it seems to be so, because:

“ If you’ve not got a Mekboy Workshop, you can still choose a Kustom Job through the use of a Stratagem. So, everybody can have a Souped-up Speshul, some Nitro-powered Squigs or a Forktress.”

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/17/orks-da-new-rulezgw-homepage-post-3/


2. Big Mek with KFF
- CLAN lock
- CLAN lock = no kff for grots?? Because the\ do not benefit from CLAN culture
- no wargear option, just choppa
- no TRANSPORT explanation = KFF do not work in transport
- then KFF Mek has the KFF ability with the same name like MA Big Mek = this new gakky version should be valit also for the MA Big Mek and for Wazboom Blastajet?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ptxr0R_Xf5c98VRDuq4aOwj9vE48YGae/view?usp=drivesdk

Grots have klan keywords but don't benefit from the rules. So they will be affected by the KFF.
You really don't need much wargear on the mek. the fact that he essentially has a free KFF coming in at just 55 is awesome.
I dunno, I rarely put them in vehicles as it stops him healing and it reduces his aura to just the one vehicle
technically he does not have the KFF wargear at all. Just an odd new rule. which also affects units in kombat which is a pretty sizable buff.

 TedNugent wrote:
The point was, does +1S on the charge change that? It makes the Big Choppa wound MEQs on 2's, vehicles on 4's or 3's, and makes each choppa wound on 3's on MEQs/5's on vehicles. With 72 shots on a full unit combined with S5 on the charge, that seems like a fairly efficient unit in terms of mobility, shooting, and assault on its face.

They average 5.82 wounds on MEQs at BS5 and 6.5 wounds on first round of combat on MEQs with the strategem. They have 25 wounds behind a 4+/T5. For 281 points.

The problem with MEQ (or more accurately, primaris, no one uses MEQ anymore) is their armor save. The killsaw does most of the heavy lifting here for me.
+1S usually means one more dead marine, which isn't too bad. Being able to wound T5 stuff on 4s and T8 on 5s has much more impact. The good thing is you don't have to spend the CP unless you know you need it, against MEQ i'd rather not use it.

By contrast, a 30 man mob of Shootas puts out 3.65 wounds on MEQs from shooting, 11.3 in combat . They have T4/6+ for 215 points. That seems pretty comparable when you account for the mobility difference.

Boyz are troops though, so you would have to add 30 points of gretchin tax on top of the bikers. In addition, they have more wounds (31 vs 25) and can be da jumped.
Neither unit is actually good at killing anything but chaff.

cody.d. wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
1. Kustom job - You don' t need a Mekboy Workshop to have a custom job. Or it seems to be so, because:

“ If you’ve not got a Mekboy Workshop, you can still choose a Kustom Job through the use of a Stratagem. So, everybody can have a Souped-up Speshul, some Nitro-powered Squigs or a Forktress.”

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/17/orks-da-new-rulezgw-homepage-post-3/


2. Big Mek with KFF
- CLAN lock
- CLAN lock = no kff for grots?? Because the\ do not benefit from CLAN culture
- no wargear option, just choppa
- no TRANSPORT explanation = KFF do not work in transport
- then KFF Mek has the KFF ability with the same name like MA Big Mek = this new gakky version should be valit also for the MA Big Mek and for Wazboom Blastajet?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ptxr0R_Xf5c98VRDuq4aOwj9vE48YGae/view?usp=drivesdk

Grots have klan keywords but don't benefit from the rules. So they will be affected by the KFF.
You really don't need much wargear on the mek. the fact that he essentially has a free KFF coming in at just 55 is awesome.
I dunno, I rarely put them in vehicles as it stops him healing and it reduces his aura to just the one vehicle
technically he does not have the KFF wargear at all. Just an odd new rule. which also affects units in kombat which is a pretty sizable buff.

Ou, I missed the point with grots, sorry.
With the rest, your' re more or less right except one fact. Some time ago, there used to be KFF Big mek on warbike. Yo you can have a column of trucks and BW etc. And drive rofward under cover of KFF. BikerKFF disappeared, now the kfff in transport disappeare. So no kff for this scenario. I don' t play it, but I see it.

Plus I use a Big Choppa on him like a “surprise” fort hthe enemies that come to my gunline.

On other hand - cheaper and works in melee? Good for me! He' s definitely 55p. Which makes Makari even more useless, because he has no chance to be the cheapest HQ...

tulun wrote:

The main issue with visions is actual, good targets for the buff. The problem is we have 4 *really* good targets for visions, 3 of which requiring 9+ psychic tests. Targeting a unit of koptas or a single scrapjet will be largely underwhelming.
1) Stompa (non viable)
2) Gorkanaut (shouldn't start on the board)
3) Morkanaut (as some have argued, shouldn't start on the board. This one is probably best Turn 1 though)
4) Gunwagon IF the new Kustom Job gun can shoot twice with periscope, averaging 14 rocket shots a round. [...]

Yes, those are ideal targets and I'd argue that for the one round it's possible a Wazbom blastajet is pretty darn good as well (especially if combined with the LUB strat). But honestly, a lot of people have weirdboys as slot fillers and chucking that psychic power on just about anything will be good. I assume you can do it on a KMK as well (since grots still have the keyword) and that gun is pretty scary on 3's. So maybe you only have one ideal target that you get to use it on for a single round, but the buff is still decent/good on a whole bunch of stuff that you might be able to chuck it on all game. If you manage to get full rerolls from a buggy all game at basically zero cost (since that weirdboy wouldn't be able to do much else and you already have him in the list) then that's still a big win, even if it doesn't provide you with huge damage spikes.