Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Just running the numbers, I get...

36 shots
12 hits and 24 rerolls for 20 hits, 10 of which explode
10 shots get 5/9 hits, for (50/9)+20
Or about 25 and a half hits.

So yes, just barely better than 3+!

Yeah, it's crazy good. On the gunwagon, you average like 10 STR 8 AP-2 D2 hits a turn at 3 feet. fething devastating at 155 points.

Also crazy that we should think of Tankbustas this exact same way... they effective hit on a 3+ against vehicles, and ~40% of the time if they dip down to a 6+. I am so stoked to try out boom boys. Every tankbusta gets equipped with the rough equivalent of a LASCANNON. Yes please.

It's a lot of points but assuming da boomer works with the periscope then I'm thinking of trying both a gunwagon and a morkanaut. You roll a 6,7 or 8 on your "visions"? Onto the gunwagon. Roll a 9+? Cowabunga it is

Goonhammer article on Ghazgkulls resilience.

Rather impressive the amount of fire it takes to do it 80% of the time at least..

https://www.goonhammer.com/hammer-of-math-slaying-the-beast/

The problem is that no decent opponent would bother wasting shots on Ghaz.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The problem is that no decent opponent would bother wasting shots on Ghaz.

Yeah. Say you field him in a mech spam list. Your opponent should just ignore him right? Does it matter if he gets close with max wounds?

@jidmah as I am currently low on time I won't be quoting you in full, but I appreciate the response. Your points make more sense on repost, but I do want to contest point 3. I've actually found PBC's specifically to be quite killable for the list due to the amount of str8 that comes on the buggies, especially combined with 3 Shokk attakk guns. Repulsors of both varieties lack an invuln, so are also not that difficult to kill. I absolutely agree on paladins thoughm, and am also looking at testing smasha guns and\or burna bombers as a potential answer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tulun wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The problem is that no decent opponent would bother wasting shots on Ghaz.

Yeah. Say you field him in a mech spam list. Your opponent should just ignore him right? Does it matter if he gets close with max wounds?

Well he does easily one-round a castellan, and he out-duels all the primarchs. I could see a world where ghaz+morka+gorka is your big wave of deliverables, effectively being cheap knights, and the rest of your list is whatever works best to deliver those.

I honestly think he'd be borderline viable in the right list if he was infantry. Being a monster really relegates him to a fluffy choice unless you play on boards that are pretty much totally empty of terrain. His gun is total junk, so terrain just hard counters him.

 Swampmist wrote:


Well he does easily one-round a castellan, and he out-duels all the primarchs. I could see a world where ghaz+morka+gorka is your big wave of deliverables, effectively being cheap knights, and the rest of your list is whatever works best to deliver those.

I'll probably start brewing some lists with Ghaz just for curiosities sake. I am wondering what that optimal soup is to give him a remote fighting chance.

A Mork, Gork, and Ghaz + Painboy (required) is 971 points alone. I think you probably can't afford triple bat here, so you gotta do bat, bat, 1 CP detachment. After that, I assume you stack some buggies, dreads, maybe some MANz?

Question for me: What is the optimal detachment to slot that painboy in? It would almost be nice to do a Goff Vanguard detachment, but elites don't really mesh with a mech spam outside of MANz... which are very expensive. You could do mixed clan, I guess, too, and just take like a spearhead with some Smashas.

yukishiro1 wrote:
I honestly think he'd be borderline viable in the right list if he was infantry. Being a monster really relegates him to a fluffy choice unless you play on boards that are pretty much totally empty of terrain. His gun is total junk, so terrain just hard counters him.

It relegates him to getting deep struck by Tellyporta, certainly. I don't think most boards are nothing but walled ruins you can't move around though, so I feel like he's still fine

Yeah, but you gotta remember he has a huge base, which makes DSing him to the place you want more difficult than you'd think. A smart opponent is going to use the terrain that does exist plus screening to deny you the opportunity to DS him into a position to threaten anything worth killing. So you're probably looking at a very sub-optimal charge if you want to bring him in T2...and then on top of that more than 1/3 of the time your charge fails, meaning he doesn't do anything until T3, and may not even get a decent charge then if your opponent just kites away from him or feeds him some crap unit.

I mean like using my eldar list I can feed him a 55 point 5 man harlequin troupe...and because of their 4++ invuln saves, on average he doesn't even kill the unit in a round, even with no CP or psychic support at all. Or the 12-man unit can happily tarpit him the rest of the game; for 1CP and with the -1 to wound from the seer if he kills 2 a round he's doing better than the mathhammer average. They'd actually probably prefer sitting in combat with him to being out there to be shot at by the rest of your army.

I think is terrible ATM, however I'm certain that his place is never gonna be to be DS and charge. That is just foolish. If you wanna DS him, you LL drop him midfield in cover , in order to position him as counter charge and secure a board control.

Give it 2 months and someone will go 5-0 with him in some list.

Yeah I actually agree, I thought he was tellyporta-charge only at first, but the more I think about it, the more I think that's a trap. He just doesn't do enough damage to make that viable, unless your opponent is dumb enough to let him DS into a knight or something like that. And even against a knight...he costs double what a smash captain does, for less damage potential and vastly less maneuverability. That's pretty terrible.

If he had a sweep it'd be different, but as is, he's just too easy to tarpit with cheap chaff to make that work IMO.

Oh yeah, he drops turn 2 to support a wave, and then acts as a threat piece.

That's why I don't really see the synergy with a mech list. I think the only way he works is with infantry around him to deny your opponent the ability to kite or feed. If you instead have a bunch of other big bulky vehicles that's going to do the opposite and end up getting in his way and making your opponent's job of avoiding him even easier.

And then we're back to the old problem that a warboss on a bike with the 1CP strat and DKK does more damage, is much more mobile, can't be shot at, and costs half as much.

Why are we back having this discussion?

Any screen, even Primaris Marines, make him utterly impotent for the cost. 5/6/7 attacks is simply not enough to dent any chaff and if he doesn't get into combat with his preferred targets he will never make his points back.

Also he only moves 7" MAX.

I'm going to say it again for those of you at the back of the class. 7 INCHES MOVE MAX. There is no way to advance and charge him, nor can he leave combat and charge.

Good luck getting him to that Castellan.

 Emicrania wrote:
I think is terrible ATM, however I'm certain that his place is never gonna be to be DS and charge. That is just foolish. If you wanna DS him, you LL drop him midfield in cover , in order to position him as counter charge and secure a board control.

Give it 2 months and someone will go 5-0 with him in some list.

Do you think it’ll be a Green tide or some kind of mech jank?

If green tide... wouldn’t a regular boss be better?

tulun wrote:


If green tide... wouldn’t a regular boss be better?

Yes, and that's the fundamental problem, which the 1CP strat just makes even worse.

I mean maybe in a goff list where you can take advantage of the extra attacks..but goffs suck, and I don't see Ghaz making them enough better to overcome their basic badness.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Also he only moves 7" MAX.

I'm going to say it again for those of you at the back of the class. 7 INCHES MOVE MAX. There is no way to advance and charge him, nor can he leave combat and charge.

Good luck getting him to that Castellan.

And that is why you tellyporta him every time.

As for him not having enough attacks, I absolutely believe he should have a supporting weirdboy, and he probably needs to be in a goff detachment for the additional hits.

yukishiro1 wrote:
That's why I don't really see the synergy with a mech list. I think the only way he works is with infantry around him to deny your opponent the ability to kite or feed. If you instead have a bunch of other big bulky vehicles that's going to do the opposite and end up getting in his way and making your opponent's job of avoiding him even easier.

And then we're back to the old problem that a warboss on a bike with the 1CP strat and DKK does more damage, is much more mobile, can't be shot at, and costs half as much.

His wound mechanic really works well with vehicles, though, which is probably where he's actually going to shine.

As a general tenant, it's bad to mix infantry and mech, but if we need to protect Ghaz.. could we use something like Evil Sun Kommandos? They start in deep strike, and if Ghaz gets swamped by bs, they countercharge turn 2 or 3.

 Swampmist wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Also he only moves 7" MAX.

I'm going to say it again for those of you at the back of the class. 7 INCHES MOVE MAX. There is no way to advance and charge him, nor can he leave combat and charge.

Good luck getting him to that Castellan.

And that is why you tellyporta him every time.

As for him not having enough attacks, I absolutely believe he should have a supporting weirdboy, and he probably needs to be in a goff detachment for the additional hits.

That feels a lot like throwing good points after bad.

Visions also isn't too bad on warbikers - it's re-rolls for the entire turn, so both shooting and charging.
Now, if only they would cost a little less...

Worst case, you can always throw it on a scrapjet.

 Jidmah wrote:
Visions also isn't too bad on warbikers - it's re-rolls for the entire turn, so both shooting and charging.
Now, if only they would cost a little less...

Worst case, you can always throw it on a scrapjet.

Do you mean Deff koptas? Cause it only works on vehicles

Would an evil sunz battlewagon rush be viable now? 3 Battlewagons, 2 bonebreakers, 2 gunwagons, 60ish boyz and support characters?

Visions is vehicle only so it wouldnt work on bikers.
It would work on Deffkoptas though. 5 deffkoptas w/ 10 rokkits among them hitting on 4s with all rerolls sounds nifty (give'm Sparkly Bitz for 4+ bs)

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Visions is vehicle only so it wouldnt work on bikers.
It would work on Deffkoptas though. 5 deffkoptas w/ 10 rokkits among them hitting on 4s with all rerolls sounds nifty (give'm Sparkly Bitz for 4+ bs)

Sparkly bits can’t be taken by koptas. You could get em to BS4 against flying units though.

Damn it right forgot thats a walker thing.

Hmm...thought occurred to me. Unit with a wound characteristic of 18+....i would assume thats specifically looking at the stat and not the unit as a whole?
If so, Killakanz would love it. Unless it was misquoted a few pages back (i dont have the book sadly, stupid quarantine) it says HITS not shooting specifically. So a killakanz unit would be doubletapping that bonus, rerolling their rokkits and rerolling their klaw attacks in the same round.
Dreads and nauts would as well of course but Dreads split up so the yield is much weaker and nauts are 18wounds so its much harder to get off w/o a mass of boyz around.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Damn it right forgot thats a walker thing.

Hmm...thought occurred to me. Unit with a wound characteristic of 18+....i would assume thats specifically looking at the stat and not the unit as a whole?
If so, Killakanz would love it. Unless it was misquoted a few pages back (i dont have the book sadly, stupid quarantine) it says HITS not shooting specifically. So a killakanz unit would be doubletapping that bonus, rerolling their rokkits and rerolling their klaw attacks in the same round.

It's all hits, so yeah, you could re-roll melee as well. And there's nothing that seems to stop you from targeting Killa Kans.

As stated, even advancing KKs hit effectively on a 3+ (-1 to hit), so it wouldn't be terrible.

I do think what PinaColada said is actually a good idea if you try visions out -- Have multiple targets that are both WC6 and WC9 nearby. It doesn't say you TARGET a unit before casting... you cast then target a unit that meets the casting criteria.

So you could fish for that 9+, but worse comes to worse, you buff a Gunwagon, Megatrakk, Deff Kopta Unit, Killa Kan unit (etc).

tulun wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
I think is terrible ATM, however I'm certain that his place is never gonna be to be DS and charge. That is just foolish. If you wanna DS him, you LL drop him midfield in cover , in order to position him as counter charge and secure a board control.

Give it 2 months and someone will go 5-0 with him in some list.

Do you think it’ll be a Green tide or some kind of mech jank?

If green tide... wouldn’t a regular boss be better?

Green tide would been a surprise. My bet is on a veichle heavy or a MANz heavy + Lootas/FG or a mix of 3 planes + 18 Smashaguns + infantry.

You know what sucks the most ?
I love the model. Is just exactly what I wanted him to look like, maybe not the pose but people are already fixing it.
Is just the rules are SO limiting that anything is better than him. Still he will see play.
Hell I LL proxy him asap as soon this mess is over

tulun wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
I think is terrible ATM, however I'm certain that his place is never gonna be to be DS and charge. That is just foolish. If you wanna DS him, you LL drop him midfield in cover , in order to position him as counter charge and secure a board control.

Give it 2 months and someone will go 5-0 with him in some list.

Do you think it’ll be a Green tide or some kind of mech jank?

If green tide... wouldn’t a regular boss be better?

I'm still new and I've been trying to find it in the codex. Why can't he advance or charge? I'm sure it has something to do with the monster trait, but I can't find why.

Because WAAAGH works on infantry only, unfortunately.