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Not to mention a Wazbom is barely more expensive than a Megamek with KFF, and unlike the Megamek its actually a threat.
Ive done that a lot where i'll put it centerfield and Dajump boyz under it, or adv my wagons under it. It routinely lasts long enough for me to waste most of their shooting, with the -1 to hit and of course the kff.

gungo wrote:
Everyone forgets the poor mekadread...

IMO for a good reason though. For just 35 points extra, a naut gets so much more stuff (T8, two attack profiles on klaw, way better shooting) and Kustom jobs have only served to widened the gap.

A shooty meka-dread doesn't compare to well to a wazbomm either.

The main incentive for fielding a meka-dread is that you have one.

 Jidmah wrote:

gungo wrote:
Everyone forgets the poor mekadread...

IMO for a good reason though. For just 35 points extra, a naut gets so much more stuff (T8, two attack profiles on klaw, way better shooting) and Kustom jobs have only served to widened the gap.

A shooty meka-dread doesn't compare to well to a wazbomm either.

The main incentive for fielding a meka-dread is that you have one.

It’s overpriced For sure but a killkannon at bs4 is decent.
Plus it’s Fairly durable with that 4+ fnp

I had a reason for the Mekadread for awhile because its BS4 for...some reason.
But then Shiny Bitz came around as well as the special Gork gun, rendering that point completely moot lol.

The Rattler Cannon is pretty good, but now theres just no reason to run it over the nauts + a cp

I hope when the new FW books come they give us some Kustom Jobs that affect FW models, and/or add that they can use certain things. None of the walker kustom jobs except the Gork gun shouldnt be denied on the Meka

I have 2 of the meka dreads, so you can tell how I felt when the FW indices came out and they were pretty crap in comparison to our codex offerings. At the very least, the FNP should be permanent, instead of degrading each time you fail it. Furthermore, they should be an HQ choice like they used to be, that way they compete less directly with other HS choices within a detachment. I'd also argue they should give an aura buff of some sort to fellow walkers, whether it be +1 attack or some kind of FNP or repair ability.

 Grimskul wrote:
I have 2 of the meka dreads, so you can tell how I felt when the FW indices came out and they were pretty crap in comparison to our codex offerings. At the very least, the FNP should be permanent, instead of degrading each time you fail it. Furthermore, they should be an HQ choice like they used to be, that way they compete less directly with other HS choices within a detachment. I'd also argue they should give an aura buff of some sort to fellow walkers, whether it be +1 attack or some kind of FNP or repair ability.

Forgeworld for us is... pretty awful, with a couple exceptions. I think the Chinork, Zhardhark, and Garg Squig are alright.

Like, the Meka Dread should probably be closer to like 200-220 w/ KFF and its gun, especially compared to the much better Mork... it's like 276? It's insultingly bad in its current state.

It sounds like Forgeworld index might be ready pretty much when 9th drops though.

tulun wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
I have 2 of the meka dreads, so you can tell how I felt when the FW indices came out and they were pretty crap in comparison to our codex offerings. At the very least, the FNP should be permanent, instead of degrading each time you fail it. Furthermore, they should be an HQ choice like they used to be, that way they compete less directly with other HS choices within a detachment. I'd also argue they should give an aura buff of some sort to fellow walkers, whether it be +1 attack or some kind of FNP or repair ability.

Forgeworld for us is... pretty awful, with a couple exceptions. I think the Chinork, Zhardhark, and Garg Squig are alright.

Like, the Meka Dread should probably be closer to like 200-220 w/ KFF and its gun, especially compared to the much better Mork... it's like 276? It's insultingly bad in its current state.

It sounds like Forgeworld index might be ready pretty much when 9th drops though.

Yeah, the FW rules are pretty meh beyond what you mentioned and the Supa Skorcha Big Trakk. Hopefully when they revamp the new indices, there's a little more future proofing with regards to current and upcoming Ork rules.

 Khorzain wrote:
Do you think open-topped transports will allow passengers to shoot normally while the transport is in melee — or will they still be limited to Pistols-only?

Bro, that is a super interesting question. Skorchas. Dang.

 Grimskul wrote:
I have 2 of the meka dreads, so you can tell how I felt when the FW indices came out and they were pretty crap in comparison to our codex offerings. At the very least, the FNP should be permanent, instead of degrading each time you fail it. Furthermore, they should be an HQ choice like they used to be, that way they compete less directly with other HS choices within a detachment. I'd also argue they should give an aura buff of some sort to fellow walkers, whether it be +1 attack or some kind of FNP or repair ability.

I just want a points drop <-main issue
The mega charga and kff (And rokkit rack) to both be included in the price
I’d like the fnp to be permanant as well even if it’s just 5+ becuase it can be a pain to track where you are at

Then it would be fine...
I would love for the supa skorcha to return as it’s a great weapon as well but I have a feeling the rattler cannon is going away and it will just be a killkannon and claw/saw arm since that’s all they still make.

It’s a nice model though!

 Jidmah wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
IMO both foot meks are terrible choices for mech lists, as they are left in the dust by turn 2 and useless for the rest of the game. If you want a KFF, Morkanaut and Wazbomm are the best options.

Dreads and kans have the same M value of a footslogging mek, naut has only 8''. You just need to be in 9'' range to give the invuln, and with the new table size even vehicles can easily be in range for a couple of turns if not more. Which is what really matters actually,

You need to be wholly within 9" though, so if much as a toe sticks out, you don't get the save.

Also, you're assuming the the opponent plays a gunline, and the ork player must rush everything as fast as possible, but he might has units that want to come forward as well. Dreads,

In my experience I need to at least go forward at full speed T1 no matter what my opponent is playing to get all those 24" weapons in range of valuable targets.

Morkanaut and wazobom are both good, but also 500 points vs 110 (assuming 2 big meks with KFF) with 8th points values.

I've experimented *a lot* with these units and it's not that simple. The 110 spend on big mek is 110 lost as soon as your vehicles move out of their bubble, as they contribute nothing to the game anymore. I had roughly a dozen games where this happened. Naut and wazbomm, on the other hand, still add a lot of value even if they wouldn't have the KFF, as both their shooting and durability is pretty impressive.

I've also played all those untis, actually the big mek was a 75ppm index one since PA wasn't already out then. The mek can be left behind and if he does he actually works for 1-2 turns, but on the other hand the morkanaut is a priority target and doesn't last more than 1-2 turns anyway. Sure it's a bullet magnet, and I also like to field it a lot, but if you want KFF for more than 1-2 turn the naut isn't more reliable than a footsloggin mek and even if it survives it could be left behind as well as it's just as fast as mek actually if not even slower (8'' vs 5'' but the big mek can advance since he has no shooting). So is the wazbom, which is another priority target. I've had games in which a footslogging mek shielded dreads, mek gunz and trukks full of bustas/gitz and for that role he was more effective than a naut. Da boomer wagon could also work in conjuction with a big mek, so do kanz.

I'd like to ask for some clarification though: the KFF bubble works as long as the unit is wholly within 9'' but that shouldn't mean than the entire bases of the shielded models must be under the bubble, just a tiny fraction of each one of them. If all the models in the unit have at least a small portion of their bases (or the model itself if it doesn't have a base like most vehicles) covered by the bubble then the unit gets the 5++. It's how I've always played it, and it actually makes a lot of difference when it comes to shield models like BWs, trukks or Gorkanauts. .

 Blackie wrote:
I'd like to ask for some clarification though: the KFF bubble works as long as the unit is wholly within 9'' but that shouldn't mean than the entire bases of the shielded models must be under the bubble, just a tiny fraction of each one of them. If all the models in the unit have at least a small portion of their bases (or the model itself if it doesn't have a base like most vehicles) covered by the bubble then the unit gets the 5++. It's how I've always played it, and it actually makes a lot of difference when it comes to shield models like BWs, trukks or Gorkanauts. .

It was clarified/changed some time last year. From the rulebook FAQ:
Q: Can you clarify what the difference is between ‘wholly within’
and ‘within’ for rules purposes?
A: If a rule says it affects models that are ‘wholly within’
then it only applies if every part of the model’s base (or
hull) is within. If a rule says it affects models that are
‘within’, however, then it applies so long as any part of the
model’s base (or hull) is within.
If a rule says it affects units that are ‘wholly within’ then
it only applies if every part of every model’s base (or hull)
in that unit is within. If a rule says it affects units that are
‘within’, however, then it applies so long as any part of any
model’s base (or hull) in that unit is within. If a rule says
it affects units if every model in that unit is ‘within’ then
applies so long as any part of every model’s base (or hull)
is within.
For example, units gain the benefit of cover if every model
in the unit is either on or within terrain. So long as all the
models in that unit are either on or partially within the
terrain, they gain the benefit of cover.

Fitting a BW with deff rolla within a KFF mek's aura is pretty much impossible.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
I'd like to ask for some clarification though: the KFF bubble works as long as the unit is wholly within 9'' but that shouldn't mean than the entire bases of the shielded models must be under the bubble, just a tiny fraction of each one of them. If all the models in the unit have at least a small portion of their bases (or the model itself if it doesn't have a base like most vehicles) covered by the bubble then the unit gets the 5++. It's how I've always played it, and it actually makes a lot of difference when it comes to shield models like BWs, trukks or Gorkanauts. .

It was clarified/changed some time last year. From the rulebook FAQ:
Q: Can you clarify what the difference is between ‘wholly within’
and ‘within’ for rules purposes?
A: If a rule says it affects models that are ‘wholly within’
then it only applies if every part of the model’s base (or
hull) is within. If a rule says it affects models that are
‘within’, however, then it applies so long as any part of the
model’s base (or hull) is within.
If a rule says it affects units that are ‘wholly within’ then
it only applies if every part of every model’s base (or hull)
in that unit is within. If a rule says it affects units that are
‘within’, however, then it applies so long as any part of any
model’s base (or hull) in that unit is within. If a rule says
it affects units if every model in that unit is ‘within’ then
applies so long as any part of every model’s base (or hull)
is within.
For example, units gain the benefit of cover if every model
in the unit is either on or within terrain. So long as all the
models in that unit are either on or partially within the
terrain, they gain the benefit of cover.

Fitting a BW with deff rolla within a KFF mek's aura is pretty much impossible.

Thanks for posting it, I completely missed that since it wasn't in the orks FAQs and I'm basically the only ork player here I've always played it wrong then, although mostly not by using the footslogging mek but the Naut for covering 2-3 BWs/trukks in turn 1. I guess the footsloggin mek could be an option only for walkers then, maybe mek gunz.

Mech orks seem to be looking good eh?

With custom jobs and being able to shoot into combat, the buggies are starting to look solid. If they are spared stupid point increases, I would wager orks might get a top table mech list.

Corkscrew might be an auto take now eh? Even if you get stuck in, it’s still shooting something.

Agree, with the downside of krokscrew disappearing, I don't think there is a reason not to take it if you are running scrapjets.

The other buggy that got a massive boost is the KBB, since it's now able to use the spiked ram with impunity and can no longer be neutralized by having a unit just stay in combat with it.

In addition, the squigbuggy might have found its niche with the squig launchers gaining the blast rule (probably on the boom profile).

 Jidmah wrote:
Agree, with the downside of krokscrew disappearing, I don't think there is a reason not to take it if you are running scrapjets.

The other buggy that got a massive boost is the KBB, since it's now able to use the spiked ram with impunity and can no longer be neutralized by having a unit just stay in combat with it.

In addition, the squigbuggy might have found its niche with the squig launchers gaining the blast rule (probably on the boom profile).

Yeah, I was thinking that the +1 to wound strat on the buggy was *almost* good enough, but the megatrakk just wins out because it's more consistent. Megatrakk is better in combat, but getting 12 consistent big shoota shots (some hitting on 4s), and then getting the rockets on top of it, it's just obviously better.

The squig buggy edges out on certain targets I think with consistent shots -- where blast comes in now.

I still doubt it's worth taking over the mega trakk, but it's now no longer a terrible joke. We could see a difference in points now too, where the mega trakk is more expensive than it, which should probably be the case.

Really, I think what would make the squig buggy something truly interesting is if it didn't need line of sight, which... MAKES sense. It's lobbing squigs at the enemy, why it needs LOS is beyond me.

It also has a saw though, and as long as at least one profile remains non-blast, it can keep shooting itself out of combat.

After playing some games post SotB, from my experience the buggies rank like this:
1) SJD is out of competition and hands down the best buggy with its high speed, reliable gun and stratagem to go wherever it pleases. The kustom job is a nice goody, but can easily be skipped as hitting on 3+/5+ is much more important than randomly deep striking - ES might view this differently though.

2) The lower speed on the scrapjet often keeps it out of range of things you want to shoot in turn one, and AP-2 just makes it too unreliable against 3+ saves. It's still a great buggy with lots of firepower and korkscrew is valuable whenever you do find your way into combat. I guess when running two or three scrapjets you should always get it, as chances are you will use it on at least one of them. You make sure to keep in mind that getting stuck in combat is always bad for them until next edition

3) Kustom Boosta-blasta. You get a lot of durability ans speed for your 80 points and they kill infantry in droves, while being able to lock down anything you don't want to shoot. Sadly, their kustom job blows, usually amounting to 0-2 mortal wounds across two KBB in any game I ran them (I kept count even when I didn't have them). That Da Burnin’ Highway stratagem though...
Forget about skorcha nobz in trukks, for just one CP the KBB goes from 4d3 8" S4 AP0 shots to flat 12 10" S5 AP-1 until your next turn. So after it has reduced some scoring unit to ash, no one would dare to charge them, lest they would suffer the same insane profile on overwatch.

4) Squigbuggy. To be fair, the one game I played three of them (thanks, TTS) wasn't actually a serious one, but they I did some fun silly things, like putting three squig mines on an objective. The gun is weird though, as it's pretty much bad no matter what you shoot it at and what mode you use, yet it somehow always ends up dealing some damage. Due to the low number of shots actually hitting, +1 to wound felt wasted, definitely needs a trio to make that kustom job worth taking.

5) Boomdakka Snazzwagon. Well, it really got nothing from SotB, the kustom job is a bad joke and the stratagem unneeded for a unit that is somewhere behind gretchin on your opponent's target priority. This thing should have objective secured or drop for another 20 points to be worth it.

Have you ever considered a boom boys detachment for scrap jets? Not sure if it generally fits a buggy army, but it brings those rockets to STR 9, AP-3.

The shooting rerolls aren’t as insane on a scrap jet anyway, and you can always make up the invulnerable with a KFF.

I somehow doubt an additional AP and strength would be better than two re-rolls. Especially with the wing missile hitting on 4+, deff skulls work pretty well for scrapjets.

It makes me sad that the Boomdakka Snazzwagon is still so lowly ranked, I love the way that thing looks.

That' s one of few pros of this buggy I'm afraid. But don' t worry. Sooner or later, it becames meta. That' s the core rule of W40k

i still swear to god someone typod the Snazzwagon's kustomjob.
Its actually a downgrade in overall damage. If it retained its S5 AP2 at that RoF spread across 3 models its suddenly pretty lethal, but not broken due to orky BS.
But at S4 AP1? Wtf? Why would i pay 80pts +1cp for something that weak when i could just bring a KBB for the same cost and no CP and do just as much if not more damage.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i still swear to god someone typod the Snazzwagon's kustomjob.
Its actually a downgrade in overall damage. If it retained its S5 AP2 at that RoF spread across 3 models its suddenly pretty lethal, but not broken due to orky BS.
But at S4 AP1? Wtf? Why would i pay 80pts +1cp for something that weak when i could just bring a KBB for the same cost and no CP and do just as much if not more damage.

Well also when they did the same thing with the Gork's gun right.

But these are also the people that thought the Squig buggy was worth 140 points out of the gate and had to reduce it by 40 points... which still isn't enough.

Huh? No the Gork's gun has always been 36" S6 AP1 1D. The RoF skyrocketed and the +1 to hit at half range bit was added in.
Snazzwagon's kustomjob is the only one that feels legit like a sidegrade if not straight up downgrade, even Squighyde Tires has uses.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Huh? No the Gork's gun has always been 36" S6 AP1 1D. The RoF skyrocketed and the +1 to hit at half range bit was added in.
Snazzwagon's kustomjob is the only one that feels legit like a sidegrade if not straight up downgrade, even Squighyde Tires has uses.

Sorry, what I meant was from a design perspective they had the same idea to increase the rate of fire of both units with the job.

In the gorks case, they buffed it further. In the snazz case, they made the gun worse, turning it into a side grade at best.

Ah i see what you mean.
Yeah, pretty much. Its just a RoF increase. Not even as big of an increase the Gork got (though it goes on 3 buggies is probably why).
If they fixed it to be S5/AP2 again i'd probably use it.

Also that grot save stratagem shouldnt have been a stratagem...its once per game per model...why is it a stratagem?

They started with the faction focus, the word out there is that next edition will launch last week of July (they said July, so earliest is the end of July. *Ditto Orktober)

My guess is boyz 8pts, Grots 4. Now the question is, what about burnaz, stormboyz and Nobz?

"Werner: In the absence of dedicated indirect fire units, the best way to (literally) get around line-of-sight-blocking terrain is by making use of the myriad movement abilities that Necrons have at their disposal. The Doom Scythe, in particular, can use its speed and freedom of movement to get eyes on a valuable target from across the table, then obliterate it with its death ray. What’s more, as a Blast weapon, the death ray will be effective against large enemy units as well as enemy vehicles – you’ll automatically get your maximum of three shots against units of six of more, which will be great for zapping Space Marines."

This gun is d3.

So weirdly, bigger blasts do less shots against 6-10, then go absolutely ham at 11+. This means stuff like Smasha guns probably are gonna SMOKE elite units now, as they will be getting 3 shots each 6+. But larger blast templates get hosed. Not sure why they just don't consider each die below a 3 to be a 3.

Also, Necron Warriors are now 12 points, up from 11 points, to give us more of a baseline. Boys at 8 points and Grots at 4 seems reasonable.

I'm pretty bullish on Killa Kans for lists next edition, but I think I'll be fielding them in squads of 5

Thats a concern i have been voicing on their facebook posts the moment they revealed what Blast did.

There arent very many multi-dice shot weapons, but they all feel rather gimped by comparison to the standard D6, which clearly got the biggest buff from Blast by making its minimum 3, or half shots, against 6+ models, while things like the Mork's 3D3 KMZ literally gets no benefit unless it happens to shoot an 11+ model unit, which...what the heck has 11+ models that firing a KMZ at wouldnt feel like a disgusting waste of time?

Even their livestream adds to the confusion since they said it was a per-die basis. Im hoping they changed it and forgot to update the article before sending it out, since GW isnt exactly known for proofreading very well.

Feels really weird our Deffkannon has a minimum of 3 against 6-10 models on a 3D6 gun and suddenly 18 shots guaranteed against 11+ lol.

If boyz are 8pts i probably wont be using them anymore. Theyre overpriced as it is, only bare-bone functional in 30man squads through sheer weight of dice and even then theyre meh. Especially since 9th is making it sound like its easier to do a full vehicle list imo.
I'd much rather have the ~500pts my boyz usually take be used for more buggies.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Thats a concern i have been voicing on their facebook posts the moment they revealed what Blast did.

There arent very many multi-dice shot weapons, but they all feel rather gimped by comparison to the standard D6, which clearly got the biggest buff from Blast by making its minimum 3, or half shots, against 6+ models, while things like the Mork's 3D3 KMZ literally gets no benefit unless it happens to shoot an 11+ model unit, which...what the heck has 11+ models that firing a KMZ at wouldnt feel like a disgusting waste of time?

Even their livestream adds to the confusion since they said it was a per-die basis. Im hoping they changed it and forgot to update the article before sending it out, since GW isnt exactly known for proofreading very well.

Feels really weird our Deffkannon has a minimum of 3 against 6-10 models on a 3D6 gun and suddenly 18 shots guaranteed against 11+ lol.

If boyz are 8pts i probably wont be using them anymore. Theyre overpriced as it is, only bare-bone functional in 30man squads through sheer weight of dice and even then theyre meh. Especially since 9th is making it sound like its easier to do a full vehicle list imo.
I'd much rather have the ~500pts my boyz usually take be used for more buggies.

Absolutely.

It seems stupid that 3 separate lobbas aginst a 6-10 unit gets a minimum of 9 shots, but a Supa Lobba only gets 3. But as soon as another grot gets too close, that supa looba goes up to 18 shots?

I don't mind more clustered units getting minimum shots -- absolutely makes sense as a game mechanic. But it should scale up linearly, and be costed with this in mind. It just means it's looking really stupid to take that 11th model, as now those large blast weapons will just SMOKE those units. A 2d6 blast weapon can really whiff and only get 3 shots at 10 -- there's zero chance that'll happen if you take an ammo runt on a full sized Nob squad now.

Also yeah i agree, Killakan mobs of 6 are dead.
Which is really annoying as they come in packs of 3. But that 6th model is gonna mark them hardcore to be targeted by those D3 heavy-hitting shots like the Deathray, Neutraon Laser, or whatever that Repulsor tank's cannon is called for primaris.
Yeah those guns would much rather go after the Gork/Mork but guaranteed 3 shots against something you completely splat and can be lethal enough to cause a problem if you ignore them is too good to pass up.

Its also gonna irritate my Grot Tanks, which are 8man squads. Need another Kommanda and 1 more random dude now for 2x5 squads.
actually i may just get a 3rd Mega Grot Tank and forget the Grot Tanks. The MGT is better anyway.